False teaching by separating Scripture from Scripture

[Journey_man]

This has been an enjoyable conversation, thank you for that
You’re right that Romans 7 describes a real lifelong conflict — Paul never says the flesh disappears — but your conclusion that “we never have real victory in this life” contradicts the very passages you’re using.
Romans 7 shows indwelling sin remains;
Romans 8 shows indwelling sin does not reign.
Paul says the regenerate “are not in the flesh” (Rom 8:9),
“the law of the Spirit of life has set you free” (8:2), and
“sin shall not have dominion over you” (Rom 6:14).
That is not perfectionism; it is Spirit‑produced victory in the war, not the removal of the war.
Mortification (Rom 8:13) proves sin remains, but the command “put to death” proves the Spirit actually enables obedience.
Groaning (Rom 8:23) proves we await glorification, but groaning is not defeat — it is longing from people who already “walk in the Spirit” (Gal 5:16) and actually “renounce ungodliness” because grace trains them (Titus 2:12).
The golden chain (Rom 8:29–30) shows final victory is future, but it never says present victory is nonexistent; it says present sanctification is real, progressive, and Spirit‑empowered.
So the biblical tension is simple: the war is lifelong (Rom 7), but the Spirit gives real victories now (Rom 6; Rom 8; Gal 5; Titus 2).
The mistake is treating Romans 7 as the final word instead of the setup for Romans 8’s Spirit logic.

None of the above verses teach that believers have the victory over sin in this life, nor do they teach that believes can resist temptation for any length of time.

Whilst the regenerate are not in the flesh, we still sin every single day and we will continue to sin every single day for the rest of our lives. We don't sin by choice, we sin because we still retain some of our sin nature.

Believers don't always walk in the Spirit, we resist the Spirit everyday when we wilfully sin. If we say we have no sin, then the truth is not in us. The truth is the Lord Himself, His Spirit is not in us if we deny the fact that we sin everyday.

You can put sin to death as often as you like, but it will keep rearing it's ugly head everyday and it's death is never permanent in this life. Present individual victories are only temporary, so it's not a question of victory being non-existent.

 

[Journey_man]

@Journey_man, which parts of Romans 3:10 and 3:23 do you think aren't Scripture?

10 As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one;

23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

If that isn't teaching "universal sinfulness before regeneration" then what is it teaching?

The other member was claiming that regenerated believers attain sinless perfection in this life and I responded by stating that the Bible doesn't teach any such thing.

I never disagreed with "universal sinfulness before regeneration" but I disagree with sinless perfection after regeneration. I don't know of any scriptures that teach that a regenerated believr has the final victory over sin in this life.

 

[Revelation1v8]

The other member was claiming that regenerated believers attain sinless perfection in this life and I responded by stating that the Bible doesn't teach any such thing.

I never disagreed with "universal sinfulness before regeneration" but I disagree with sinless perfection after regeneration. I don't know of any scriptures that teach that a regenerated believr has the final victory over sin in this life.

Precisely why we need to be covered by the blood of Jesus and remain faithful. Through Jesus we are all made perfect in God's sight even when we physically are not.

Colossians 1:22 - In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

 

[Journey_man]

Your claim breaks the text because John 15:6 is not addressed to “fake believers who only look like branches,” but to the same people Jesus just called “clean” in 15:3 — meaning genuinely regenerated disciples — and the warning functions exactly like every other perseverance warning in Scripture: not to suggest the elect will finally fall, but to describe the real danger God uses to keep them from falling.
Your slogan “a regenerated believer cannot refuse to abide” is true at the level of God’s decree (John 6:39; Jude 24), but false at the level of human responsibility, because Jesus commands abiding precisely because the elect must abide and God preserves them through that abiding.
Paul’s statement in Romans 6:14 is indeed a promise — sin’s dominion is broken — but Paul immediately follows it with commands (6:12–13) because the broken dominion does not eliminate the battle; it guarantees the outcome.
The NT never says, “You cannot fail to abide,” it says, “If you do not abide, you are burned” (John 15:6), and then shows that the elect do abide because the Spirit keeps them (1 John 2:27). The world‑system behind your objection is fatalistic‑determinism — turning God’s preserving grace into a denial of the very means He uses to preserve.

You're wrong about John 15:6 because a branch "in" Christ represents a professing attachment—someone connected externally through the visible church, baptism, or a superficial profession—rather than a vital, regenerating union.
True believers (the elect) are preserved by God and will ultimately abide and bear fruit. Failing to abide and being thrown into the fire describes the fate of the fruitless professor whose lack of fruit proves they were never truly regenerate.

You need to make the distinction between those who are merely outwardly associated with Christ (visible members of the covenant community, like Judas Iscariot) and those who possess true, inward, saving faith (the elect).
John 6:39 is not a conditional command requiring the elect to maintain our own salvation, but rather an absolute divine promise and guarantee that Christ will successfully preserve all whom the Father has given Him.

Salvation is entirely monergistic (a work of God alone). It has nothing to do with man, because God chooses, regenerates, and justifies a believer, the responsibility to sustain that salvation rests on Him, not on human willpower. Faith and abiding are gifts from God, not human efforts. Christ's grip on the believer is what matters, not the believer's grip on Christ.

You obviously have a shallow view of Gods sovereignty and the Bible doctrines of predestination and election to salvation, by reducing them down to "fatalistic-determinism".
God is absolutely powerful and sovereign over all things. Nothing happens apart from His will.
God decrees not only the final result, but also the human choices and actions (the means) that lead to that result.

Fatalism is a blind, cold, and impersonal force where your actions do not matter at all. It says an event happens no matter what you do or try. By contrast, the Bible teaches that God ordains the means right along with the ends. If God has planned a harvest, He also planned the rain, the planting, and the work.

God's sovereign control works side-by-side with human responsibility. People choose what they want to do based on their own desires, but God sovereignly guides those desires.

 

[Revelation1v8]

You're wrong about John 15:6 because a branch "in" Christ represents a professing attachment—someone connected externally through the visible church, baptism, or a superficial profession—rather than a vital, regenerating union.
True believers (the elect) are preserved by God and will ultimately abide and bear fruit. Failing to abide and being thrown into the fire describes the fate of the fruitless professor whose lack of fruit proves they were never truly regenerate.

You need to make the distinction between those who are merely outwardly associated with Christ (visible members of the covenant community, like Judas Iscariot) and those who possess true, inward, saving faith (the elect).
John 6:39 is not a conditional command requiring the elect to maintain our own salvation, but rather an absolute divine promise and guarantee that Christ will successfully preserve all whom the Father has given Him.

Salvation is entirely monergistic (a work of God alone). It has nothing to do with man, because God chooses, regenerates, and justifies a believer, the responsibility to sustain that salvation rests on Him, not on human willpower. Faith and abiding are gifts from God, not human efforts. Christ's grip on the believer is what matters, not the believer's grip on Christ.

You obviously have a shallow view of Gods sovereignty and the Bible doctrines of predestination and election to salvation, by reducing them down to "fatalistic-determinism".
God is absolutely powerful and sovereign over all things. Nothing happens apart from His will.
God decrees not only the final result, but also the human choices and actions (the means) that lead to that result.

Fatalism is a blind, cold, and impersonal force where your actions do not matter at all. It says an event happens no matter what you do or try. By contrast, the Bible teaches that God ordains the means right along with the ends. If God has planned a harvest, He also planned the rain, the planting, and the work.

God's sovereign control works side-by-side with human responsibility. People choose what they want to do based on their own desires, but God sovereignly guides those desires.

LOL! It sounds to me like you and OMC are both arguing the same thing in different ways. OMC admitted that the Holy Spirit is what keeps us abiding in God/Jesus.

As for your paragraph on "predestination" and NOTHING happens apart from His will, that can't be true. There are many of us who have backslidden and that can't be God's will, but I definitely saw how He allowed me to stumble until I went back to abiding in Him. The Bible says He'll leave the 99 to go looking for the 1 sheep that strayed from the flock. Everything inbetween is us making our own choices and, hopefully, learning from them until we get it right and He brings us back into the fold.

 

[Psalm1]

Speaking of discernment, has anyone noticed the attempts in here by some to cast down the word of faith( Kenneth hagin)?
I was ministering in the family forum and some guy comes in there and starts a spew against Kenneth Hagin.

No discernment, and leaning on internet gossip that hates all charismatic.

Satan is the accuser of the brethren.
There are tons of vids on the internet that are into attacking ministers as a full time job.

It is a spirit.
They are driven.

 

[rewriter]

None of the above verses teach that believers have the victory over sin in this life, nor do they teach that believes can resist temptation for any length of time.

Whilst the regenerate are not in the flesh, we still sin every single day and we will continue to sin every single day for the rest of our lives. We don't sin by choice, we sin because we still retain some of our sin nature.

Believers don't always walk in the Spirit, we resist the Spirit everyday when we wilfully sin. If we say we have no sin, then the truth is not in us. The truth is the Lord Himself, His Spirit is not in us if we deny the fact that we sin everyday.

You can put sin to death as often as you like, but it will keep rearing it's ugly head everyday and it's death is never permanent in this life. Present individual victories are only temporary, so it's not a question of victory being non-existent.

Yet ever believer's goal should be to make it for at least 24 hours of conscious life without sinning. I doubt any of us can ever do it, but it is a goal to be strived for.

 

[Journey_man]

3

LOL! It sounds to me like you and OMC are both arguing the same thing in different ways. OMC admitted that the Holy Spirit is what keeps us abiding in God/Jesus.

As for your paragraph on "predestination" and NOTHING happens apart from His will, that can't be true. There are many of us who have backslidden and that can't be God's will, but I definitely saw how He allowed me to stumble until I went back to abiding in Him. The Bible says He'll leave the 99 to go looking for the 1 sheep that strayed from the flock. Everything inbetween is us making our own choices and, hopefully, learning from them until we get it right and He brings us back into the fold.

It may sound like we're arguing the same thing, but I can assure you that our interpretation of the gospel message is fundamentally different. OMC doesn't believe that salvation is all of the Lord, he believes that we are saved by grace + works and I believe we are saved by grace without any added works or conditions.

You claim that you went back to abiding in Him, after you stumbled and found yourself in a backslidden state. I'm sure you meant to say "God drew me back to Himself after I stumbled".
I'm not going to pretend that I understand God ways. I can't get into His mind to figure out why He does what He does. But I do believe that He is in full control over every single aspect of His creation, from the smallest details to the big ticket items.

Gods ways are infinitely higher than ours, so they are past finding out. It's not wise to put God on trial and try to figure out and evaluate what He does. The Bible teaches us to trust and obey Him, and not to question anything He does.

The Bible teaches that God brings trouble, suffering and persecution into our lives. He does this for our own good. He facilitates the fulfilment of our sinful lust in order to show us how destructive sin is when it gives birth. Most of us need to have a "Prodigal Son" experience, before we can appreciate the joy of living a life of obedience to God.

 

[Journey_man]

Yet ever believer's goal should be to make it for at least 24 hours of conscious life without sinning. I doubt any of us can ever do it, but it is a goal to be strived for.

Whilst we should strive to resist the temptation to sin as much as possible, we know that it's not possible to resist for an hour let alone 24 hrs.

The Bible teaches that believers face three main spiritual enemies: the world, the flesh (often connected to lust or sinful desires), and the devil.

1. The World, this is the fallen societal system opposed to God. It pushes values like pride, materialism, and ungodliness.

2. The Flash, this is our internal, corrupted human nature. It houses sinful desires and lusts that answer the calls of the world and the devil.

3. The Devil, This is Satan, a real spiritual being who uses deception, traps, and accusations to oppose God's people.

These three foes work together. The world tempts us externally, the flesh responds internally, and the devil orchestrates the deception. We cannot defend ourselves against these enemies by our own strength.

In Romans 7:14-15, Paul says that he knew what was right and wanted to do what was right, and yet somehow he couldn't always do it. He also knew what was wrong and it was the last thing he wanted to do, yet somehow he did it.

Romans 7 comes to an end with a cry for deliverance. It describes a man who is trying to be good by his own efforts, but every time he is beaten back by the power of indwelling sin. Mere human willpower cannot deliver us (Romans 7:18).

 

[Revelation1v8]

It may sound like we're arguing the same thing, but I can assure you that our interpretation of the gospel message is fundamentally different. OMC doesn't believe that salvation is all of the Lord, he believes that we are saved by grace + works and I believe we are saved by grace without any added works or conditions.

The Bible teaches that God brings trouble, suffering and persecution into our lives. He does this for our own good. He facilitates the fulfilment of our sinful lust in order to show us how destructive sin is when it gives birth. Most of us need to have a "Prodigal Son" experience, before we can appreciate the joy of living a life of obedience to God.

Sorry, I have never gotten that impression from OMC in all my many conversations with him. Maybe I don't understand what your definition of "works" is or what you think OMC's definition of "works" is.

While we are sealed by the Holy Spirit, He's not going to work in us when we purposely choose to stray and make our own choices. It's not until we totally surrender all of ourselves to Him and obey God's commands that we can actually bear fruit and see God/Jesus/Holy Spirit working in our lives and blessing it. Unfortunately, sometimes that takes learning the hard way.

 

[Journey_man]

Sorry, I have never gotten that impression from OMC in all my many conversations with him. Maybe I don't understand what your definition of "works" is or what you think OMC's definition of "works" is.

While we are sealed by the Holy Spirit, He's not going to work in us when we purposely choose to stray and make our own choices. It's not until we totally surrender all of ourselves to Him and obey God's commands that we can actually bear fruit and see God/Jesus/Holy Spirit working in our lives and blessing it. Unfortunately, sometimes that takes learning the hard way.

You never got that impression because your theology is the same as his. Both of you believe the Arminian "saved by works" version of the gospel.

God's grace precedes human action. Because humans are spiritually dead in sin, God must first regenerate a person (give them a new heart) before they can even believe.
Salvation rests entirely on the perfect life and sacrificial death of Jesus Christ, whose righteousness is imputed (credited) to believers.

Good works and obedience to God's law do not earn, secure, or contribute to justification before God. Obedience is the result and evidence of salvation, not the cause. Once a person is saved, the Holy Spirit works within them to produce good works and a desire to follow God's moral law.

The Ten Commandments and God's commands are a guide for how a grateful Christian should live, rather than a ladder to climb for acceptance. God knows that every one of His elect break break all 10 commandments, but our sin and disobedience is imputed to the Lord Jesus. He took all of our past, present and future sins upon Himself and He imputed His righteousness to us. So we will not be judged for our sin.

The Holy Spirit works in us while we purposely choose stray from Him and make our own choices. Your view is unbiblical, because God promised that He would never leave or forsake His elect. If He stopped working in us, and left us to our own devices, we would never come back to Him.

We would never totally surrender all of ourselves to Him and obey Gods commands, unless He caused us to do so by regenerating us from a state of death and slavery to sin and Satan. Salvation is 100% of the Lord, the only thing we contribute to Gods work of salvation is a corpse and filthy rags.

Nobody learns anything the easy way, that's why God had to pay the ultimate price to save His people. He wouldn't have needed to torture and kill His Son, if there was an easier way.

 

[Psalm1]

It may sound like we're arguing the same thing, but I can assure you that our interpretation of the gospel message is fundamentally different. OMC doesn't believe that salvation is all of the Lord, he believes that we are saved by grace + works and I believe we are saved by grace without any added works or conditions.

You claim that you went back to abiding in Him, after you stumbled and found yourself in a backslidden state. I'm sure you meant to say "God drew me back to Himself after I stumbled".
I'm not going to pretend that I understand God ways. I can't get into His mind to figure out why He does what He does. But I do believe that He is in full control over every single aspect of His creation, from the smallest details to the big ticket items.

Gods ways are infinitely higher than ours, so they are past finding out. It's not wise to put God on trial and try to figure out and evaluate what He does. The Bible teaches us to trust and obey Him, and not to question anything He does.

The Bible teaches that God brings trouble, suffering and persecution into our lives. He does this for our own good. He facilitates the fulfilment of our sinful lust in order to show us how destructive sin is when it gives birth. Most of us need to have a "Prodigal Son" experience, before we can appreciate the joy of living a life of obedience to God.

It is a combination of things.
For example, the prodigal story has the prodigal "coming to his senses" in the hog wallow.
Nothing of being drawn BY the father.
In fact, the Father stood aside while the works of disobedience had the inevitable outcome.
IOW it was the ACTIONS OF THE PRODIGAL that invoke the Fathers reunion.

 

[Psalm1]

Whilst we should strive to resist the temptation to sin as much as possible, we know that it's not possible to resist for an hour let alone 24 hrs.

The Bible teaches that believers face three main spiritual enemies: the world, the flesh (often connected to lust or sinful desires), and the devil.

1. The World, this is the fallen societal system opposed to God. It pushes values like pride, materialism, and ungodliness.

2. The Flash, this is our internal, corrupted human nature. It houses sinful desires and lusts that answer the calls of the world and the devil.

3. The Devil, This is Satan, a real spiritual being who uses deception, traps, and accusations to oppose God's people.

These three foes work together. The world tempts us externally, the flesh responds internally, and the devil orchestrates the deception. We cannot defend ourselves against these enemies by our own strength.

In Romans 7:14-15, Paul says that he knew what was right and wanted to do what was right, and yet somehow he couldn't always do it. He also knew what was wrong and it was the last thing he wanted to do, yet somehow he did it.

Romans 7 comes to an end with a cry for deliverance. It describes a man who is trying to be good by his own efforts, but every time he is beaten back by the power of indwelling sin. Mere human willpower cannot deliver us (Romans 7:18).

Actually the bible is teaching 2 things.
1) as in the OT, man can not live under the law without breaking it.
2) sin is not solely addressed in a mechanical way in focusing on "not sinning", to gain victory over sin
Victory is the PRINCIPLE of walking in the spirit.
That is HOW paul did it.
....or any believer.

If you address sin, sin will eventually have us in it.
If you sit in Jesus lap, with your head resting on his breast, listening to his heartbeat, and the other ear listening to his words, you can not be in sin.

That is the holy walk.
Holy walk is the focus.
Not "sinless walk"

 

[OMC]

OMC doesn't believe that salvation is all of the Lord, he believes that we are saved by grace + works and I believe we are saved by grace without any added works or conditions.

Show me where I said that!

 

[OMC]

You never got that impression because your theology is the same as his. Both of you believe the Arminian "saved by works" version of the gospel.

God's grace precedes human action. Because humans are spiritually dead in sin, God must first regenerate a person (give them a new heart) before they can even believe.
Salvation rests entirely on the perfect life and sacrificial death of Jesus Christ, whose righteousness is imputed (credited) to believers.

Good works and obedience to God's law do not earn, secure, or contribute to justification before God. Obedience is the result and evidence of salvation, not the cause. Once a person is saved, the Holy Spirit works within them to produce good works and a desire to follow God's moral law.

The Ten Commandments and God's commands are a guide for how a grateful Christian should live, rather than a ladder to climb for acceptance. God knows that every one of His elect break break all 10 commandments, but our sin and disobedience is imputed to the Lord Jesus. He took all of our past, present and future sins upon Himself and He imputed His righteousness to us. So we will not be judged for our sin.

The Holy Spirit works in us while we purposely choose stray from Him and make our own choices. Your view is unbiblical, because God promised that He would never leave or forsake His elect. If He stopped working in us, and left us to our own devices, we would never come back to Him.

We would never totally surrender all of ourselves to Him and obey Gods commands, unless He caused us to do so by regenerating us from a state of death and slavery to sin and Satan. Salvation is 100% of the Lord, the only thing we contribute to Gods work of salvation is a corpse and filthy rags.

Nobody learns anything the easy way, that's why God had to pay the ultimate price to save His people. He wouldn't have needed to torture and kill His Son, if there was an easier way.

The accusation is false because the gospel I confess is the exact gospel Scripture defines:
justification is “not of works” (Eph 2:9),
“not by works of righteousness which we have done” (Titus 3:5), and
God justifies “him that worketh not, but believeth” (Rom 4:5).

I teach that Christ’s righteousness is imputed (Rom 4:6),
that salvation is of the Lord (Jonah 2:9),
that faith itself is given (Phil 1:29), and
that the elect are kept by God’s power (1 Pet 1:5).
I also teach that obedience is the fruit of salvation (John 15:5), not the cause of salvation, which is exactly what Paul says when he distinguishes grace‑alone justification (Eph 2:8–9) from Spirit‑produced works (Eph 2:10).
Nothing in my doctrine resembles the Arminian “grace + human cooperation” model; every line matches monergistic, grace‑alone salvation taught in Scripture.

 

[Revelation1v8]

You never got that impression because your theology is the same as his. Both of you believe the Arminian "saved by works" version of the gospel.

God's grace precedes human action. Because humans are spiritually dead in sin, God must first regenerate a person (give them a new heart) before they can even believe.
Salvation rests entirely on the perfect life and sacrificial death of Jesus Christ, whose righteousness is imputed (credited) to believers.

Good works and obedience to God's law do not earn, secure, or contribute to justification before God. Obedience is the result and evidence of salvation, not the cause. Once a person is saved, the Holy Spirit works within them to produce good works and a desire to follow God's moral law.

The Ten Commandments and God's commands are a guide for how a grateful Christian should live, rather than a ladder to climb for acceptance. God knows that every one of His elect break break all 10 commandments, but our sin and disobedience is imputed to the Lord Jesus. He took all of our past, present and future sins upon Himself and He imputed His righteousness to us. So we will not be judged for our sin.

The Holy Spirit works in us while we purposely choose stray from Him and make our own choices. Your view is unbiblical, because God promised that He would never leave or forsake His elect. If He stopped working in us, and left us to our own devices, we would never come back to Him.

We would never totally surrender all of ourselves to Him and obey Gods commands, unless He caused us to do so by regenerating us from a state of death and slavery to sin and Satan. Salvation is 100% of the Lord, the only thing we contribute to Gods work of salvation is a corpse and filthy rags.

Nobody learns anything the easy way, that's why God had to pay the ultimate price to save His people. He wouldn't have needed to torture and kill His Son, if there was an easier way.

I don't believe in a works based salvation and I do believe it all comes from God. What I recognize from my own personal experiences is that my prayers were mostly never answered when I wasn't being obedient to God. That's the only reason I say that the Holy Spirit wasn't working in me during that time. It's also why I said that even though I was "sealed" by the Holy Spirit, He wasn't blessing me or producing fruit. However, I'll never deny the fact that it was the Holy Spirit that was working in me to encourage me to change my ways and go back to being obedient. Once I did, He showed me how much more I would be blessed. Virtually all of my prayers are answered now on a regular basis.

 

[Journey_man]

It is a combination of things.
For example, the prodigal story has the prodigal "coming to his senses" in the hog wallow.
Nothing of being drawn BY the father.
In fact, the Father stood aside while the works of disobedience had the inevitable outcome.
IOW it was the ACTIONS OF THE PRODIGAL that invoke the Fathers reunion.

While the specific mechanics of the Holy Spirit are not textually detailed line-by-line within the narrative of Luke 15. The prodigal son, "coming to his senses" in (Luke 15:17) illustrates the reality of effectual calling and regeneration. Spiritually dead sinners cannot generate true, saving repentance on their own natural power.

God does not sit on the sidelines waiting to see if a morally bankrupt human will independently choose Him. The Father's proactive compassion and the son's sudden realization mirror how God sovereignly awakens the conscience through His grace.

Every parable must align with the broader systemic teaching of Scripture. Just as the shepherd actively seeks the lost sheep in the preceding parable (Luke 15:4), the Father's ultimate posture of welcoming the repentant sinner is undergirded by the sovereign work of the Triune God—where the Father chooses, the Son redeems, and the Holy Spirit regenerates and draws the heart.

Physical hunger and hitting "rock bottom" served as the earthly circumstances that exposed the son's misery, but the internal turnaround—the humbling of his pride to confess "I have sinned against heaven"—is the fruit of divine grace at work in a soul.

 

[Journey_man]

Actually the bible is teaching 2 things.
1) as in the OT, man can not live under the law without breaking it.
2) sin is not solely addressed in a mechanical way in focusing on "not sinning", to gain victory over sin
Victory is the PRINCIPLE of walking in the spirit.
That is HOW paul did it.
....or any believer.

If you address sin, sin will eventually have us in it.
If you sit in Jesus lap, with your head resting on his breast, listening to his heartbeat, and the other ear listening to his words, you can not be in sin.

That is the holy walk.
Holy walk is the focus.
Not "sinless walk"

To gain, "victory over sin" means that Jesus Christ has broken the absolute legal and ruling power of sin over the believer, though a lifelong, internal struggle against remaining sin still remains until glorification.

Those of us who are in union with Christ, have been rescued from the condemnation of Adam. Romans 6 teaches that the "old self" was crucified with Christ so that believers are no longer slaves to sin.

A Christian can not reach a state of complete sinlessness or eradicate the sin nature in this earthly life. Believers still stumble and commit conscious sin. Christ’s victory is complete and unassailable. His resurrection guarantees that sin no longer holds ultimate dominion over those united to Him.

Victory is actively worked out through progressive sanctification. As the Holy Spirit works within a believer, sin's power gradually weakens, and the fruit of the Spirit grows. The more sanctified a person becomes, the more acutely aware they are of their remaining sin and failures.

Christians achieve daily ground against sin not by "letting go and letting God" in a passive sense, but through active spiritual warfare, repentance, reliance on the Word, and obedience driven by faith.

 

[Journey_man]

Show me where I said that!

You didn't say it in those words, but you did say it to that effect.

 

[Journey_man]

The accusation is false because the gospel I confess is the exact gospel Scripture defines:
justification is “not of works” (Eph 2:9),
“not by works of righteousness which we have done” (Titus 3:5), and
God justifies “him that worketh not, but believeth” (Rom 4:5).

I teach that Christ’s righteousness is imputed (Rom 4:6),
that salvation is of the Lord (Jonah 2:9),
that faith itself is given (Phil 1:29), and
that the elect are kept by God’s power (1 Pet 1:5).
I also teach that obedience is the fruit of salvation (John 15:5), not the cause of salvation, which is exactly what Paul says when he distinguishes grace‑alone justification (Eph 2:8–9) from Spirit‑produced works (Eph 2:10).
Nothing in my doctrine resembles the Arminian “grace + human cooperation” model; every line matches monergistic, grace‑alone salvation taught in Scripture.

How is it that you claim to believe all the above verses, yet you don't believe this principal applies to Hebrews 6:4-6 According to your interpretation of Heb 6:4-6 true believers (Gods elect) can lose their salvation. That contradicts everything those verses you listed teach.