Was sex Adam and Eve part of the curse

[Lovette]

That's not what Burn was addressing.

Then 1 Cor. 6:12 applies, let God's word speak for itself.

 

[Dino246]

Then 1 Cor. 6:12 applies, let God's word speak for itself.

Wrong. 1 Corinthians 7:5 is the best verse for that situation.

 

[Burn1986]

That "attitude" is the natural way to live as God intended, instructed in the Torah, and it's backed by science, two weeks after period is the most fertile and desirable time in a woman's monthly cycle, even I as a man knows that. Every animal has a mating cycle, so does human, although it's a monthly cycle rather than yearly.

Kind of off-topic, but Jorge Prado just won the SMX Championship Finale.

 

[Lovette]

Wrong. 1 Corinthians 7:5 is the best verse for that situation.

Wrong. Lev. 15:19, 18:19 are. "Consent" is this perverted generation's false idol, reproductive cycle is proven science. 1 Cor. 7:5 is a lame excuse for sexual abuse.

 

[Lovette]

Kind of off-topic, but Jorge Prado just won the SMX Championship Finale.

Is your topic on sex or not? Then nothing else is more on topic.

 

[Dino246]

Wrong. Lev. 15:19, 18:19 are. "Consent" is this perverted generation's false idol, reproductive cycle is proven science. 1 Cor. 7:5 is a lame excuse for sexual abuse.

Christians aren’t under the law. You have a perverted understanding of sex so your rejection of 1 Corinthians 7 is unsurprising.

 

[Lovette]

Christians aren’t under the law. You have a perverted understanding of sex so your rejection of 1 Corinthians 7 is unsurprising.

“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

 

[Lovette]

Christians aren’t under the law. You have a perverted understanding of sex so your rejection of 1 Corinthians 7 is unsurprising.

Besides, what's really perverted is snooping around other people's bedrooms and dictating what they ought to do. How about showing some respect for others' privacy? You're in no position to project your understanding of sex onto anybody. What I stated on the other hand is just scientific fact regarding female monthly cycle, which has nothing to do with anybody's personal preference or beliefs.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I'm seriously asking you to drop the narrative, if you truly agree marriage is NOT for everyone, no matter how hard it is for you to imagine.

Lovette ... you are again attempting to censor what another person posts in the forum. I (or anyone else) can submit posts concerning marriage if that is what I (or anyone else) want to do ... especially in response to a post submitted which is in error concerning marriage ... or any other Scripture for that matter.

As a matter of fact, I submitted Post 57 in response to your erroneous portrayal of marriage ... and you refuse to let your error go.



reneweddaybyday said:

The one with the "unsubstantiated assumption" is the one who cannot figure out why when someone is speaking about marriage, they're speaking about an "already married couple" and then asks foolish and unlearned questions rather than accept the fact that what God ordained for marriage is as true today as it was back when He first established it notwithstanding the fact that satan has duped some folks into believing something other than what God established.​

Yes, God ordained marriage, which Satan perverted, and Jesus acknowledged that - "in the beginning it was not so."

finally ... some acknowledgment of truth concerning marriage from Lovette! Hallelujah!

What you don't understand is that his became flesh to die for our sins

1 Corinthians 15:1-4

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures


I believe the gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to those who believe (Romans 1:16).



reneweddaybyday said:

I am not married now and I worship God. I thank God for the blessed relationship I had with my husband during our sojourn together on this earth ... I thank God for the time I have now ... just as you thank Him for the time you have.​

I don't believe you

So? no skin off my back. God knows my heart.



reneweddaybyday said:

you are the one who responded to a post submitted by me in which you have no interest ... other than to cast aspersions on what God established for husbands and wives. You are not a husband. You are not a wife. Yet you want to lecture concerning a topic of which you are completely ignorant. You may know about the "human institution like all other human institutions" ... which does not equal you knowing that which God established.​

Is every boy born and destined to be a husband? Is every girl born and destined to be a wife? Yes or no? Marriage is not for everyone, you still don't understand the difference between the idolatry of marriage and marriage itself. God established all kinds of blessings, including marriage relationship, but they're not for everyone.

We have gone over the issue concerning marriage is not for everyone. I have fully acknowledged marriage is not for everyone. You deny I have fully acknowledged marriage is not for everyone ... so now you stoop to inferring that I "don't understand" something you have no clue about. What is wrong with you?



reneweddaybyday said:

I have never claimed marriage is for everyone. Your claim that I am "presuming that there's a spouse dropping from the sky for everyone" is just more of your bafflegab ... insisting I said something I never said and/or implied something I never implied ... and I have already acknowledged that "marriage is NOT for everyone" ... despite your denial that I acknowledge marriage is not for everyone.​

Then why do you keep blabbering on the narrative of marriage, even though it's not for everyone?

Speaking truth to your error is not "blabbering on the narrative of marriage".

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

reneweddaybyday said:

your response is a clear indication that you have never been exposed to a solid godly marriage.​

I've been exposed enough to your idolatry of marriage. The only solid godly marriage is between God's only son and his church. And human marriage is corruptible on the other hand.

The more you reveal what you know of marriage the more you establish you have never been exposed to a solid godly marriage.

The truth of that is God's eternal bond between Lord Jesus and his church, anything else is a poor imitation.

The relationship between a husband and a wife is a shadow ... an adumbration ... just as the tabernacle in the wilderness was a shadow of the heavenly Holy of Holies (Hebrews 8:5).

Do you understand the marriage with Jesus? As his bride? I don't think you do, 'cause Lord Jesus doesn't seem enough to you, his death of the cross doesn't seem enough to you

liar.

you have to seek validation from a husband, and you couldn't shut up about it.

clearing up your erroneous statements does not equal my doing what you claim.



reneweddaybyday said:

My relationship with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is well tended to, Lovette. And, believe it or not, my husband had a very fine, strong relationship with the Lord ... even while gasp married!!!​

So is my relationship with him.

I am happy you have a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ.

He shed his precious blood to wash away my sins, I don't need a virgin's precious blood added on to that.

You did so well on the first part ... then couldn't control yourself and had to add your barb ... feel better now?



Lovette said:

Lord Jesus Christ did claim two things - no divorce under any circumstance; singleness is an acceptable fate, marriage is not for everyone.​

reneweddaybyday said:

disagree concerning "no divorce under any circumstance".​

​

agree concerning singleness.​

​

agree concerning marriage is not for everyone.​

That's the word of God, explicitly stated.

Now to the married I command, yet not I but the Lord: A wife is not to depart from her husband. But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband is not to divorce his wife. (1. Cor. 7:10-11)

You were talking about what the Lord Jesus Christ said ... not what Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 7.



Lovette said:

Or how about be yoked with the Holy Spirit to serve the Lord only, and not to be yoked with anybody? The Lord has set you free, why do you put yourself back in chains?​

reneweddaybyday said:

A husband can be yoked to the Lord Jesus Christ ... a wife can be yoked to the Lord Jesus Christ ... and both can serve the Lord Jesus Christ as God has intended in His Word.​

​

Being in a marriage with both spouses committed to the Lord is not putting oneself "back in chains".​

You don't know if both spouses are committed to the Lord, that's just your wishful thinking. You can only commit yourself to the Lord, salvation is not and cannot be forced upon.

My comment spoke directly to your erroneous claim that being married was some kind of bondage.



Lovette said:

And I said in 21st century, government certificate says one's marital status.​

reneweddaybyday said:

And God tells us in 1 Peter 2:13-17 that we are to "Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake" ... so long as the ordinance of man is not in conflict with God's Word.​

What if when it is in conflict with God's word? Concerning the same sex marriage ruling?

Acts 5:29

You're speaking of a false idol.

That you refuse to believe what I have told you does not equal me "speaking of a false idol".


.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Let me put this straight - God's truth concerning marriage is simple, married stay married, singles stay single, 1 Cor. 7:26-27, "I suppose therefore that this is good because of the present distress—that it is good for a man to remain as he is: Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be loosed. Are you loosed from a wife? Do not seek a wife. " If you're already married when you get baptized in the name of the Holy Trinity, good for you, stay as you are; however, if you get baptized, you get married tot he Lord.

true and also true "if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned".

You marry another, you betray the Lord, you make a statement that the Lord is not enough, you need another to satisfy you; His grace is not sufficient, you need other's validation.

Not true that once a person is born again, he or she betrays the Lord if he or she gets married.

Nor is it true that a believer is saying "the Lord is not enough, you need another to satisfy you; His grace is not sufficient, you need other's validation" if and when the believer marries.

Paul may spare such infidelity, but the consequence is the sinner's to bear.

It is not a sin to marry.

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

As long as you're harping on "godly marriage" among "equally yoked Christians", you're asserting that as the only true acceptable form of marriage; all other forms of marriage, in other countries and cultures, are essentially a fraud, a failure.

the marriages are not fraudulent ... and I know for a fact that when both husband and wife are committed to God, that marriage is far, far superior (spiritually speaking) than if husband and wife are not committed to God.



reneweddaybyday said:

Speaking the truth of God's Word concerning marriage is not an "obsession with marriage" ... it is an "obsession with" the truth of God's Word ... "despite your denial".​

The truth of God's Word is that celibacy is a gift, "he who does not give in marriage does BETTER," 1 Cor. 7:38.

1 Corinthians 7:37-38 refer to a father who has a daughter ...

1 Corinthians 7:36-38

36 But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin, if she pass the flower of her age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry.

37 Nevertheless he that standeth stedfast in his heart, having no necessity, but hath power over his own will, and hath so decreed in his heart that he will keep his virgin, doeth well.

38 So then he that giveth her in marriage doeth well; but he that giveth her not in marriage doeth better.

vs 36 – if he gives his daughter in marriage, he does not sin

vs 37 – if he keeps his daughter with him, he does well.



reneweddaybyday said:

Nope, I'm still talking about the marriage relationship established by God ... which you deny. You are so dead set against marriage that you cannot even submit to the truth of God's Word concerning the relationship He established. Is marriage for everyone? No. Can marriage be a blessing to both spouses? Yes.​

There's no promise of a "spouse" from God in the first place.

so? That does not change the fact that marriage can be a blessing to both spouses.

I ask you again, if you never had the opportunity to meet anybody, while everybody else around you seem to have their luck, would you still worship God?

yes.

Do you worship God FOR his blessing - or do you worship him DESPITE the lack of his blessing?

I worship God because I love Him.

I submit to God just as I am and the life I've been living in as a testimony of His truth. Hoever anybody else lives is not of my business.

I'm happy you submit to God.



reneweddaybyday said:

No one is denying we live in a sinful and broken world ... that the world has not only "infinitesimally deviated" from God's original design, the world has collosally deviated from God's original design.​

Lovette said:

Then so is that "marriage relationship established by God".​

reneweddaybyday said:

... under that logic ...​

​

since the world does not believe God created the heavens and the earth ... does that mean the big bang theory is true?​

​

since the world does not believe the Lord Jesus Christ is Lord of all ... does that mean the Lord Jesus Christ is not Lord of all?​

Is the world involved in marriage? Does the government, which doesn't believe in either Lord Jesus Christ, Creation or God's original design for marriage, still have the power to issue marriage certificate? Did you use the world's service to find a husband, host wedding and enjoy other benefits?

What the world does has no effect on the truth of God's Word.

That you view what the world does as having some sort of effect concerning truth does not change truth into what the world considers true.


reneweddaybyday said:

All your attempts to infer that the Lord Jesus Christ "portrayed marriage in a negative way", have miserably failed.​

Only as negative as the Sadducees' ridiculous hypothesis.

what sadducees? The sadducees were not with Jesus when his disciples asked Him "when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

You're thinking just like them, you're holding onto things of this world, you have no faith in resurrection, where there's no marriage.

And you still don't understand the difference between idolatry of marriage and marriage itself.

you are grasping at straws in your feeble attempt to support your erroneous claims.

.

 

[Lovette]

Lovette ... you are again attempting to censor what another person posts in the forum. I (or anyone else) can submit posts concerning marriage if that is what I (or anyone else) want to do ... especially in response to a post submitted which is in error concerning marriage ... or any other Scripture for that matter.

As a matter of fact, I submitted Post 57 in response to your erroneous portrayal of marriage ... and you refuse to let your error go.



reneweddaybyday said:

The one with the "unsubstantiated assumption" is the one who cannot figure out why when someone is speaking about marriage, they're speaking about an "already married couple" and then asks foolish and unlearned questions rather than accept the fact that what God ordained for marriage is as true today as it was back when He first established it notwithstanding the fact that satan has duped some folks into believing something other than what God established.​

finally ... some acknowledgment of truth concerning marriage from Lovette! Hallelujah!




1 Corinthians 15:1-4

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures


I believe the gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to those who believe (Romans 1:16).



reneweddaybyday said:

I am not married now and I worship God. I thank God for the blessed relationship I had with my husband during our sojourn together on this earth ... I thank God for the time I have now ... just as you thank Him for the time you have.​

So? no skin off my back. God knows my heart.



reneweddaybyday said:

you are the one who responded to a post submitted by me in which you have no interest ... other than to cast aspersions on what God established for husbands and wives. You are not a husband. You are not a wife. Yet you want to lecture concerning a topic of which you are completely ignorant. You may know about the "human institution like all other human institutions" ... which does not equal you knowing that which God established.​

We have gone over the issue concerning marriage is not for everyone. I have fully acknowledged marriage is not for everyone. You deny I have fully acknowledged marriage is not for everyone ... so now you stoop to inferring that I "don't understand" something you have no clue about. What is wrong with you?



reneweddaybyday said:

I have never claimed marriage is for everyone. Your claim that I am "presuming that there's a spouse dropping from the sky for everyone" is just more of your bafflegab ... insisting I said something I never said and/or implied something I never implied ... and I have already acknowledged that "marriage is NOT for everyone" ... despite your denial that I acknowledge marriage is not for everyone.​

Speaking truth to your error is not "blabbering on the narrative of marriage".

.

If you're so enthusiastic about marriage, go somewhere else. This is not what the OP intended to discuss.

 

[Lovette]

The more you reveal what you know of marriage the more you establish you have never been exposed to a solid godly marriage.

The only solid godly marriage is between God's only son and his church. And human marriage is corruptible on the other hand.

The relationship between a husband and a wife is a shadow ... an adumbration ... just as the tabernacle in the wilderness was a shadow of the heavenly Holy of Holies (Hebrews 8:5).

Why do you live in the shadow when you're already in the light?

liar.

Pffft.

clearing up your erroneous statements does not equal my doing what you claim.

Do you have a relationship with the Lord, and is it sufficient for you?

You did so well on the first part ... then couldn't control yourself and had to add your barb ... feel better now?

Thank you for your concern, I'm fine.

You were talking about what the Lord Jesus Christ said ... not what Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 7.

Is that in 1 Cor. 7 or not?

My comment spoke directly to your erroneous claim that being married was some kind of bondage.

Paul's comment says it is. "Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be loosed. Are you loosed from a wife? Do not seek a wife. "

Acts 5:29

Good, therefore I obey God rather than this godless government. You marr,y you submit to the government which issues your marriage certificate. You can't have it both ways.

That you refuse to believe what I have told you does not equal me "speaking of a false idol".


.

I'll believe you when marriage is no longer certified by the government. Again, You can't have it both ways.

 

[Lovette]

true and also true "if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned".

“A certain man gave a great supper and invited many, and sent his servant at supper time to say to those who were invited, ‘Come, for all things are now ready.’ 18 But they all with one accord began to make excuses. The first said to him, ‘I have bought a piece of ground, and I must go and see it. I ask you to have me excused.’ And another said, ‘I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I am going to test them. I ask you to have me excused.’ Still another said, ‘I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.’

Not true that once a person is born again, he or she betrays the Lord if he or she gets married.

Nor is it true that a believer is saying "the Lord is not enough, you need another to satisfy you; His grace is not sufficient, you need other's validation" if and when the believer marries.

Why not? Is a believer a member of the church or not? Is the church the bride of Christ or not? You're born again, you're bride of Christ, you're bound to him, anybody else is a distraction. "And this I say for your own profit, not that I may put a leash on you, but for what is proper, and that you may serve the Lord without distraction." 1 Cor. 7:35

It is not a sin to marry.

.

It is a trouble in the flesh to bear.

 

[Lovette]

the marriages are not fraudulent ... and I know for a fact that when both husband and wife are committed to God, that marriage is far, far superior (spiritually speaking) than if husband and wife are not committed to God.

That's your hubris. And snobbery.

1 Corinthians 7:37-38 refer to a father who has a daughter ...

Yeah, so a woman just a piece of property to be traded at her father's will? Which century are you living in, medieval?

so? That does not change the fact that marriage can be a blessing to both spouses.

How can there be "both spouses" when there's not one spouse to start with?

yes.

Liar.

I worship God because I love Him.

Liar.

What the world does has no effect on the truth of God's Word.

That you view what the world does as having some sort of effect concerning truth does not change truth into what the world considers true.

You get married, you get involved in what the world considers true. Again, I'll believe you when marriage is no longer certified by the government.

what sadducees? The sadducees were not with Jesus when his disciples asked Him "when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

They worship marriage as much as you do, they ridiculed Jesus with their hypothesis on marriage, which miserably failed.

As for the Olivert Discourse, indulgence in marriage is a sign of negligence on the Lord's coming. Eating and drinking only refer to excessive eating and drinking to the extent of inebriety, not normal food and water consumption in moderate portion.

you are grasping at straws in your feeble attempt to support your erroneous claims.

.

The only erroneous claim is your idolatry of marriage.

 

[Lovette]

It is not a sin to marry.

It is a folly to marry.

 

[Dino246]

“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

I’m not interested in debating your view on the old covenant law.

 

[Dino246]

You're in no position to project your understanding of sex onto anybody.

Likewise.

 

[Burn1986]

Is your topic on sex or not? Then nothing else is more on topic.

No. I just got done watching it - was a nail biter. You’ve already heard my points but you’re more interested in winning an argument than anything else. Either way, here’s what I see going on today.

God made the woman as a helpmate to the man. And before the fall, they were perfectly in sync. There’s a lot we don’t understand about life before the fall, but we can expound on what we know after the fall. God gave one curse to the man - toil sweat in work; three curses to the woman - pain in childbirth, control your husband, he shall rule over you.

Now, fast forward to today and how these curses have played out, in regard to the current state of sexual immorality. First some time, most men have had easy access to sexual immorality on their phones and many have further engaged in it. This has warped everything about sex in marriage and has given the enemy a foothold - men consumed with sexual desire, women consumed with “he only wants me for sex” and have used sex as a form of control - divorces, sexless marriages, overall sexual immorality.

From this, help groups have emerged, and there is a new focus on “coming out” of sexual immorality. With these groups there is much insight on repairing the damage that the man has done to the woman, as well as the woman’s current view of her place in the relationship. There have been some key books that have encouraged women to cast off sex and “duty” until their environment is ideal and safe. While in a temporary sense this is fine, but it has resulted in women entering a newfound life path and empowerment from a non sex marriage.

This new idea for women to no longer have to “perform” for their husbands, and not have the husband “rule over them” is very tempting and playing out in today’s couples. In my opinion this is a grasp from the enemy on couples where the man is in the process of coming out of sexual immorality. I also feel this could be what Daniel was talking about “…in those days, some of the most gifted in God will stumble and fall, but these trials will only purify them to greater holiness.”

There’s a lot there, but I’m sure you guys will unpack it for 100+ pages.