looking for help reconciling the Sabbath with common observation?

[ScooterJackson]

Counsel of Jerusalem in Acts 15

The Saturday peoples can never overcome the Counsel of Jerusalem in Acts 15 where the Lord did NOT lead them to include observing Saturday sabbath... unless the Saturday peoples want to claim the Apostles were being led by devils in the Book of Acts and not being led by the Lord.

If they say the Apostles were being led by the Lord at the the Counsel of Jerusalem, then they must accept the Apostles teachings as being from the Lord.... and accept observing Saturday sabbath is not applicable under the New Covenant.

But, if they don't accept the Apostles teachings as being from the Lord at the Counsel of Jerusalem then the Saturday peoples must concede that they believe the Apostles were listening to devils which is why they did not teach the people about observing Saturday sabbath.

Acts 15:28,29
For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

The Saturday peoples apparently do believe the Apostles in the Book of Acts were being led by devils.

 

[Davidstarr]

But it never says that in Heb 4:1-11

You are reading in to scripture something it does not say

You missed this:

Hebrews 4:8 - For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

Since the sabbath under the old covenant did not give them rest, the Lord brought forth a New Covenant where Jesus is our rest:

Matthew 11:28
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Hebrews 4:9-10
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into His rest (speaking of Jesus), he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Matthew 11:29-30
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

You leave out verses. And redefine other verses to make them say what you want it to mean.

It does not say Jesus gave them rest.
It says if He had He would have spoken of another day.

It DOES say that rest it is talking about is the 7th day sabbath.

Heb 4:4 "For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.'
This points to the 4th commandment and the 1st week of creation.
So does verse 10 - We cease from our own works as God did from His
Verse 9 the word for "rest" is "sabbatismos" and specifically refers to the 7th day sabbath
This makes verse 11 a direct command from Paul.
Funny, you left that verse out too.
"Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief."

The phrase "Let us labor therefore" is the Greek word "spoudazō". It means to strive with all our strength/might.
To enter into the rest the text is talking about. The 7th day sabbath.
And if you don't you will into unbelief. Unbelief that God is the Creator of all things because that's what the sabbath is all about....

Without the 4th commandment how do you know you worship the right God?
Nothing in the other 9 mention He is the Creator. Only the 4h commandment tells us this.

 

[Davidstarr]

You are still reading in to scripture something it does not say.

OK, so let's go at it from another angle - show me chapter and verse from the New Testament that describes the penalty for those that do no observe Saturday sabbath that tells us not observing Saturday sabbath is a sin that sends people to hell.

Here's REST according to the New Covenant... is it's not speaking of keeping Saturday sabbath!

Hebrews 4:4-11
For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Hebrews 4:6 tells us "to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief" so those living under the Law of Moses did not enter in to God's REST... even though they were observing Saturday sabbath!

What the Lord's Word is speaking of in Hebrews 4:8 is what we have under the New Covenant which is resting in faith IN Christ... not just one day a week, but ALL days.

Therefore Saturday sabbath does not meet the higher standards Jesus Christ has brought forth for His people in the New Covenant due to it';s better promises.

Maybe some day... the sabbatarians can come on over in to the New Covenant and let Jesus be their High Priest rather than trying to go back and live under Moses.

Under the Law of Moses... Saturday sabbath was a thing.

Under the Law of Christ (New Covenant), it is NOT a thing because a different rest has replaced Saturday sabbath which made it obsolete since we are IN Christ now and ... HE is out rest... HE is our sabbath 24/7/365 (Mat 11:28, Hebrews 4:9-11)

The sabbath is still one of the 10.
The wages of sin is death.
Murder means you deserve a death penalty, stealing, adultery, worshiping idols.
Worshiping anything that is not the Creator.
Only the 4th commandment tells which God that is....

 

[Davidstarr]

Counsel of Jerusalem in Acts 15

The Saturday peoples can never overcome the Counsel of Jerusalem in Acts 15 where the Lord did NOT lead them to include observing Saturday sabbath... unless the Saturday peoples want to claim the Apostles were being led by devils in the Book of Acts and not being led by the Lord.

If they say the Apostles were being led by the Lord at the the Counsel of Jerusalem, then they must accept the Apostles teachings as being from the Lord.... and accept observing Saturday sabbath is not applicable under the New Covenant.

But, if they don't accept the Apostles teachings as being from the Lord at the Counsel of Jerusalem then the Saturday peoples must concede that they believe the Apostles were listening to devils which is why they did not teach the people about observing Saturday sabbath.

Acts 15:28,29
For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

The Saturday peoples apparently do believe the Apostles in the Book of Acts were being led by devils.

Acts 15 is talking about circumcision, abstaining from meats sacrificed to idols, from blood, things strangled and avoid fornication.
This was part of the Mosaic Law.

Where is talking about murder, theft, bearing false witness, having other gods besides God?
These are parts of the 10 commandments.

Do you think Acts 15 means we no longer need to keep the 10 commandments? Now murder, theft, lying, worshiping others gods. taking God's name in vain are OK because Acts 15 does not mention them?

 

[Churchgoer]

He's trying to live under the law of Moses.

The Galatians did that and fell from grace. Too bad, so sad.

The point is to ask them how they observe this law, practically.
Then we can discuss from there.
According to David star s practice, we are all already observing it.

 

[Dino246]

Take the Creator out of His own law and you have no way of knowing WHICH god you worship.
One thing is for sure, he is not the Creator.

Perhaps your “bible” contains nothing but the Ten Commandments so you nothing else by which to identify your Creator.

How ridiculously narrow can you get?

 

[Dino246]

Acts 15 is talking about circumcision, abstaining from meats sacrificed to idols, from blood, things strangled and avoid fornication.
This was part of the Mosaic Law.

Where is talking about murder, theft, bearing false witness, having other gods besides God?
These are parts of the 10 commandments.

Do you think Acts 15 means we no longer need to keep the 10 commandments? Now murder, theft, lying, worshiping others gods. taking God's name in vain are OK because Acts 15 does not mention them?

The indwelling Holy Spirit steers the believer to fulfill God’s requirements. External commands aren’t needed.

 

[Davidstarr]

Perhaps your “bible” contains nothing but the Ten Commandments so you nothing else by which to identify your Creator.

How ridiculously narrow can you get?

I prefer the KJV.

How do you know which god you worship?
What has He done? What has He made?
According to the bible it was the God that made heaven, the earth, the seas and all things in them.
In 6 days and rested on the sabbath.

Is this the same God you worship when you deny His weekly sabbath day?

 

[Davidstarr]

The indwelling Holy Spirit steers the believer to fulfill God’s requirements. External commands aren’t needed.

The indwelling Holy Spirit would not lead believers astray from God's requirements.

 

[Toddini]

I prefer the KJV.

How do you know which god you worship?
What has He done? What has He made?
According to the bible it was the God that made heaven, the earth, the seas and all things in them.
In 6 days and rested on the sabbath.

Is this the same God you worship when you deny His weekly sabbath day?

I prefer translating from the original source language (when possible). This method becomes significantly more enlightening than any of the modern English bibles can. IMO

 

[Churchgoer]

Perhaps your “bible” contains nothing but the Ten Commandments so you nothing else by which to identify your Creator.

How ridiculously narrow can you get?

Also the law says 7th.
Other reference is 7th year....
Important is 1 out of 7. Pick 1.

 

[ScooterJackson]

Important is 1 out of 7. Pick 1.

In the New Covenant Christians should be abiding in Christ resting all 7 days a week for the rest of their lives year in and year out.

This is far better then honoring the Lord just one day a week.

 

[Churchgoer]

In the New Covenant Christians should be abiding in Christ resting all 7 days a week for the rest of their lives year in and year out.

This is far better then honoring the Lord just one day a week.

Agree.
But it is good to have holy convocation at least once a week. True rest in God's family.

 

[ScooterJackson]

True rest in God's family.

True rest for the believer can only be found in their close personal relationship with the Father abiding in Christ.

Sure the gathering of ourselves can be a good thing but it cannot and does not take the place of our close personal relationship with the Father abiding in Christ.

This is why so many that go to weekly meetings are so full of fear, worry, and anxiety because they don't know how to abide in Christ.

Churches don't point people to the Lord. Instead they point people to their church services which are nothing more than religious social clubs and not really church services where they make merchandise of the people who they see as piggy banks to get money from

 

[Yissachar]

The subject of Acts 15 is circumcision, and nothing else

1. And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

10
Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Adult Circumcision is the yoke that neither the fathers or themselves were able to bear.

And it was decided that in order to be accepted into the Congregations - Jews and Newly Israel, Four requirements had to be met, The First and Seventh commandments - and two dietary laws

20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

And they would learn the rest of the Torah on the Sabbath.

Are any of you saying that murder coveting stealing, because they are not mentioned, that the four minimum requirements were all new believers had to keep?

 

[ScooterJackson]

The subject of Acts 15 is circumcision, and nothing else

Not true, see verse 5

Acts 15:5 - But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

 

[Churchgoer]

True rest for the believer can only be found in their close personal relationship with the Father abiding in Christ.

Sure the gathering of ourselves can be a good thing but it cannot and does not take the place of our close personal relationship with the Father abiding in Christ.

This is why so many that go to weekly meetings are so full of fear, worry, and anxiety because they don't know how to abide in Christ.

Churches don't point people to the Lord. Instead they point people to their church services which are nothing more than religious social clubs and not really church services where they make merchandise of the people who they see as piggy banks to get money from

If a church near you is preaching the scripture, will you go every week?
I think as a believer we need both, corporate get together, as well as personnel relations with God.

If a church you go weekly is faithfully preaching scripture and teaching God's way of life, will you support the church financially?

Should we give God offerings?

 

[ScooterJackson]

If a church near you is preaching the scripture, will you go every week?

I would but all the churches in my area teach heresy and God warns in His Word to not sit under false doctrine.

If a church you go weekly is faithfully preaching scripture and teaching God's way of life, will you support the church financially?

I would if they were not openly teaching heresy

Should we give God offerings?

The Lord actually is being robbed when people are not willing to invest in the Gospel.

Giving financially is different in the New Testament in that we are to purpose in our heart how much to give based on the leading of the Lord in each of our lives

Matthew 6:21
For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

2 Corinthians 9:6,7
But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

1 Corinthians 16:2
Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him

The problem with most churches is they are teaching a different gospel and a different jesus (fake) so the Lord would not lead anybody to give to most churches because doing so is financially supporting false doctrine.

 

[Churchgoer]

I would but all the churches in my area teach heresy and God warns in His Word to not sit under false doctrine.



I would if they were not openly teaching heresy



The Lord actually is being robbed when people are not willing to invest in the Gospel.

Giving financially is different in the New Testament in that we are to purpose in our heart how much to give based on the leading of the Lord in each of our lives

Matthew 6:21
For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

2 Corinthians 9:6,7
But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

1 Corinthians 16:2
Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him

The problem with most churches is they are teaching a different gospel and a different jesus (fake) so the Lord would not lead anybody to give to most churches because doing so is financially supporting false doctrine.

Agree definitely don't give God's money to a fake anti God organization.
God hold each one of us accountable. It is God's money, give it responsibly.

 

[ScooterJackson]

Agree definitely don't give God's money to a fake anti God organization.
God hold each one of us accountable. It is God's money, give it responsibly.

I like to help the elderly and those that don't make much money.
I like to let them know it was the Lord that is leading me to help them and not just me.