looking for help reconciling the Sabbath with common observation?

[Yissachar]

What about John 3 : 16?

What if some Israel still reject the resurrected Jesus and still play harlot role?

Isaiah also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: Romans 9:27

What exactly are you trying to say?

How does John 3:16 Whosoever believes on Him transition to what if some still reject?

 

[TMS]

According to SDA teaching, the mark of the Beast is Sunday worship. The NT does not refer to a Sunday sabbath. There is no NT sabbath at all.

Regardless of denomination and traditional teachings.....

Let's see.

One group of people mostly SDAs say that law will slowly be placed on people to observe Sunday as a day of rest.
They have been predicting this for many years but have never set a day or date.
They believe that the world will be divided into two classes.

Those that keep ALL the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus.
And those that follow the beast and his commands and teachings..

God's commandments vs Man's commandments.

Rev 14:9 KJV And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,Rev 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, .....

Throughout history the Catholic church was always seen as the beast and antichrist. All the reformers identified the Roman church as the Antichrist.

The Roman Church has gone into a state of changing the thinking and diverting the attention off itself for the last 200 years. Today she still calls herself the the mother church and has not changed.
She killed people for reading the Bible in the dark ages.
The Roman Church says that Sunday worship is her sign and mark.

If this is all wrong and Sunday means nothing (which is what you think) then so be it..

But if laws are enforced to make Sunday the day of rest then you should reconsider your stance.

It is one of many interpretation of what mark of the beast is. Which One is right ️

It is a prophecy that I believe is being fulfilled slowing but surely..

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

[TMS]

What are the Commandments of God, That we should obey?

 

[Dino246]

What are the Commandments of God, That we should obey?

Believe in the One He has sent.

 

[Churchgoer]

Isaiah also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: Romans 9:27

What exactly are you trying to say?

How does John 3:16 Whosoever believes on Him transition to what if some still reject?

You can read John 3,
It talks about some in the dark rejecting the light.

Whoever accept Jesus as lord and savior, shall not perish but have eternal life. Whoever reject Jesus, will not have eternal life in heaven.

John 3 applies to all ethnic, including isreal ethnic. Agree?

 

[stilllearning]

Regardless of denomination and traditional teachings.....

Let's see.

One group of people mostly SDAs say that law will slowly be placed on people to observe Sunday as a day of rest.
They have been predicting this for many years but have never set a day or date.
They believe that the world will be divided into two classes.

That law already existed and was so in the days of Ellen. The laws in place when she made her writings of Sunday and commerce were known as blue laws. Which again in her day made it unlawful to conduct Sunday commerce. In 1888 a Senator had pushed for a bill to make it a national law rather than just local/State laws. As fate would have it while this was going on she had a shift in her teachings that a national law would come along and specifically she predicted that the US would enforce Sunday observation by law then other nations do as well.

What has happened since, well as late as 1950 we had 46 states of 48 states with blue laws. We only had 48 states at that time. I recall in the 70's where I lived we still had blue laws in effect and commerce closed on Sunday's. My state had repealed the blue laws in 63 but courts ruled that local municipalities could continue to enforce them at that level. So the opposite has happened since her divine prediction. No national was ever passed and in time we repealed the ones we had. So now we have commerce on Sundays.

 

[Roger316]

You replied to someone who said this:
"God is not a respecter of persons. There is no difference between Jew and Greek if you belong to Christ.
In fact, we have been grafted on. We are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise. Even if we not of his physical bloodline"

Your reply to this person was:
"You do not understand what "no difference" means. In Christ there is neither male or female. I'm not sure that the ladies of your church would be OK with you using their bathroom"

My reply was for clarification concerning the quote "In Christ there is neither male or female"

Many use this to claim women can be pastors, teachers, and over men in authority. And others use it to claim all genders can marry and be physically intimate and some people claim to have no gender at all (the gay perversion stuff)

So tell us plainly - do you use Galatians 3:28 to accept women pastors and teachers being in authority over men and do you use Galatians 3:28 to accept sexual perversion claiming Christians can be perverts?

If I may answer, Paul wants his readers to know that with regard to salvation, there is no distinction between Jew or Gentile, Male or Female, Slave or Free. He does NOT obliterate or eliminate these categories with respect to other aspects of our lives. Children must still obey their parents; wives must still respect their husbands; and Husbands must still love their wives as Christ loved the church.

 

[Roger316]

Why ....
The Spirit and the moral law do not controdict each other. The Holy Spirit and the character of God are one.

To say you follow the Spirit of God and wilfully transgress the law is a contradiction..

Rom 8:1-4
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Walking after the Spirit = following the law.
Walking after the flesh = not following the law.

You are transgressing the law when you ignore the command .... Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy.

The law does not save us. Faith saves but that faith leads us to follow the Spirit not reject it.

Your whole post did not answer my question.

Are we saved from sin by removing the law or by the blood of Jesus paying for the debt of transgressing the law?

And remember when the type meet antitype those shadow laws were remove and did become void.

Your argument assumes that Israel's laws are universal. But we can't assume that in this discussion. You must prove that Israel's laws are universal, not assume it.

 

[Yissachar]

You can read John 3,
It talks about some in the dark rejecting the light.

Whoever accept Jesus as lord and savior, shall not perish but have eternal life. Whoever reject Jesus, will not have eternal life in heaven.

John 3 applies to all ethnic, including isreal ethnic. Agree?

Even though the Children of Israel are as the sand of the sea, Only a remnant will be saved

God said to Abraham that his seed would be mingled into all the families on earth in Hebrew Genesis 12:3

"Ve nivrecu bekah kol mishpachot ha-adamah."

INTRODUCTION TO THINGS MESSIANIC From the website

Since I believe what God said to Abraham

That means that Every family on earth has Abraham's DNA in them

There are around 8.3 Billion people on earth = The sand of the sea

 

[ScooterJackson]

Do you have a problem with reading comprehension, or are you deliberately choosing not to believe in The New Covenant?

I'm the one trying to help you understand that you need to walk in the New Covenant.
You are in the ditch trying to lead others in to the ditch causing others to stumble and not abide in Christ.

The Law of Christ and the Torah of YHWH are one in the same.

That's the error the devil deceived you in to believing.

Big different between the law of Moses (old covenant) and the Law of Christ (New Covenant)

Hebrews 3:5,6
And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;
But Christ as a Son over His own house; whose house are we, IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Now, there is a new house, the Body of Jesus Christ! Under the New Covenant that the Lord said would come forth, we see Jesus Christ as the High Priest. The old covenant with it’s laws and regulations have been taken away because thru Jesus Christ a new and better covenant has come in to place.

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

God said He would make a New Covenant - see Jeremiah 31:31-34
You apparently missed this important detail from the Word of the Lord.

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath Jesus obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also Jesus is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

And with the changing of the priesthood, God’s Word tells us there is also a change of the law.

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

God’s people are no longer living under the Law of Moses. Now God’s people are living under the Law of Christ (also called the law of liberty, law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus – see Galatians 6:2, 1 Corinthians 9:21, James 2:12, James 1:25, Romans 8:2)

 

[ScooterJackson]

We are not under the death penalty because of transgressing the law because Jesus kept them perfectly and forgives us.

Some take statements like that and choose to continue living in sin after getting born again or slide back in to sin after getting born again. These people doing such end up being separated from the Lord for all eternity because they are workers of iniquity

Matthew 13:41,42
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Do we make the law void... no

Jesus made the old covenant law void and established the Law of Christ which is the New Covenant.
Yes, God's moral law was in effect even before the law of Moses and is included in the law of Christ.

This however does not mean the old covenant law is still in effect. It is not.

Hebrews 10:9 - Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

 

[NightTwister]

Even though the Children of Israel are as the sand of the sea, Only a remnant will be saved

God said to Abraham that his seed would be mingled into all the families on earth in Hebrew Genesis 12:3

"Ve nivrecu bekah kol mishpachot ha-adamah."

INTRODUCTION TO THINGS MESSIANIC From the website

Since I believe what God said to Abraham

That means that Every family on earth has Abraham's DNA in them

There are around 8.3 Billion people on earth = The sand of the sea

Earth has an estimated 7.5 quintillion to 7.5 sextillion grains of sand (roughly 7.5 × 10¹⁸ to 7.5 × 10²¹)

 

[Churchgoer]

Even though the Children of Israel are as the sand of the sea, Only a remnant will be saved

God said to Abraham that his seed would be mingled into all the families on earth in Hebrew Genesis 12:3

"Ve nivrecu bekah kol mishpachot ha-adamah."

INTRODUCTION TO THINGS MESSIANIC From the website

Since I believe what God said to Abraham

That means that Every family on earth has Abraham's DNA in them

There are around 8.3 Billion people on earth = The sand of the sea

Yes, Jesus saves. Praise to God.

Rest, sorry, bring it to God for the argument.

 

[Yissachar]

I'm the one trying to help you understand that you need to walk in the New Covenant.
You are in the ditch trying to lead others in to the ditch causing others to stumble and not abide in Christ.



That's the error the devil deceived you in to believing.

Big different between the law of Moses (old covenant) and the Law of Christ (New Covenant)

Hebrews 3:5,6
And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;
But Christ as a Son over His own house; whose house are we, IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Now, there is a new house, the Body of Jesus Christ! Under the New Covenant that the Lord said would come forth, we see Jesus Christ as the High Priest. The old covenant with it’s laws and regulations have been taken away because thru Jesus Christ a new and better covenant has come in to place.

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

God said He would make a New Covenant - see Jeremiah 31:31-34
You apparently missed this important detail from the Word of the Lord.

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath Jesus obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also Jesus is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

And with the changing of the priesthood, God’s Word tells us there is also a change of the law.

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

God’s people are no longer living under the Law of Moses. Now God’s people are living under the Law of Christ (also called the law of liberty, law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus – see Galatians 6:2, 1 Corinthians 9:21, James 2:12, James 1:25, Romans 8:2)

God found fault with the priests, The Priesthood was Changed

God did not find fault with His Torah that He gave them

you literally have no Idea what Hebrews actually says, reading through the lawless glasses of the mystery of iniquity

Hebrews 8:8
For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith YHWH, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

 

[ScooterJackson]

If I may answer, Paul wants his readers to know that with regard to salvation, there is no distinction between Jew or Gentile, Male or Female, Slave or Free. He does NOT obliterate or eliminate these categories with respect to other aspects of our lives. Children must still obey their parents; wives must still respect their husbands; and Husbands must still love their wives as Christ loved the church.

Exactly.

And women cannot be pastors, teachers, or church leaders in authority over men.

They can be over women and children though

 

[Aaron56]

Your argument assumes that Israel's laws are universal. But we can't assume that in this discussion. You must prove that Israel's laws are universal, not assume it.

Yeah, if we let scripture interpret scripture:

"1And Moses called all Israel, and said to them: “Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your hearing today, that you may learn them and be careful to observe them. 2The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. 3The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, those who are here today, all of us who are alive."

But there was another covenant active in the world before that time. This was a covenant between God and God.

Hebrews 6:13,14 "For when God made a promise to Abraham, because He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself, 14saying, “Surely blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply you.”

This was NOT the covenant of circumcision. God made that covenant between himself and Abraham. THIS covenant, the one referenced in Hebrews above, was made between God the Father and His only begotten Son, Christ. The price of that covenant was paid from the foundation of the world:

Revelation 13:8 "All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

If God had made this covenant with Abraham it would have relied on the strength of a man to vest. But God did not make it with Abraham. He swore to Himself.

For men indeed swear by the greater, and an oath for confirmation is for them an end of all dispute. 17Thus God, determining to show more abundantly to the heirs of promise the immutability of His counsel, confirmed it by an oath, 18that by two immutable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we might have strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us.
19This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and which enters the Presence behind the veil, 20where the forerunner has entered for us, even Jesus, having become High Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.

This is the strong consolation that anchors our soul! God will indeed make good on His word to Himself.

So Abraham, and all his offspring by grace through faith in God, inherit the PROMISES of the covenant between the Father and Son. THIS is the covenant that could not be undone or even influenced by the covenant given at Horeb (Sinai). That's what the text says:

Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ. 17And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. 18For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

It takes willful blindness to not see this.

 

[Roger316]

Exactly.

And women cannot be pastors, teachers, or church leaders in authority over men.

They can be over women and children though

I think upon closer examination, we will find that Paul was talking about wives, not women in general, when he restricted teachers.