Replacement theology? Yes or No.

[HeIsHere]

I'm judging their heart towards Israel/Jews.

We do not hate anyone, is that clear?

Profoundly grieved, yes. Grieved by the ignorance and the excuses.

Oops exceeded my limit.

 

[Churchgoer]

I'm not judging their heart towards God. I'm judging their heart towards Israel/Jews. That's not what God/Jesus expects from ANY of you. And yes, Christians are to judge each other's bad intentions.

Again you are elevating Israel people on a pedestal as golden calf.

 

[Revelation1v8]

People who desire to learn generally do.

Grace and peace.

Well, some here haven proven that they're not capable of learning anything and I think we all know why.

 

[Revelation1v8]

We do not hate anyone, is that clear?

Profoundly grieved, yes. Grieved by the ignorance and the excuses.

Oops exceeded my limit.

The proof is in the language used. That speaks louder than a person's one time denial.

 

[Revelation1v8]

Again you are elevating Israel people on a pedestal as golden calf.

No, it just appears that way to you because that IS the MAIN TOPIC of this thread.

 

[God-fearing]

“At the cross Satan was bound.”

“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭5:8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The condemnation of Satan is now gone thanks to Jesus.
There is no condemnation for those that are in Christ Jesus.
His accusation against the believers in Jesus are unfounded. We are a new creation in Christ.

 

[Psalm1]

That verse is open to broad interpretation.

Isn't the AC revealed at his white horse advent?
Isn't he destroyed by the white horse rider in Rev 19?

 

[God-fearing]

Again you are elevating Israel people on a pedestal as golden calf.

No we are coming to the defence of Israel as you and others seem to think they have no right to.

 

[Churchgoer]

No we are coming to the defence of Israel as you and others seem to think they have no right to.

Yes, but not by murdering, stealing, robbing, pedefhiling.....

 

[Psalm1]

All part of the tribulation 1st century.

The world has never seen a world wide mark and Commerce dependent on that mark.
The world has never seen a worldwide. Requirement of a tattoo on the forehead or the hand.
No record of flying scorpions with human heads either.

preterist is one of the worst distortions ever invented by "clever" man.

Ahen...."tribulation such as the world has never seen or ever will see"

( several doors leading us out of pretrrism and into bible sanity)

 

[cv5]

Here lets break this down and debunk your claims point by point.

1. “Preamble”: Deuteronomy 1:1–5 = Revelation 1?​

This is superficial resemblance created simply by calling both opening chapters a “preamble.”

Deuteronomy 1:1–5 establishes the historical setting of Moses addressing Israel in Moab:


It identifies the covenant mediator, the covenant people, geographical location, and historical circumstances immediately before Israel enters Canaan.

Revelation 1 does nothing comparable.

It opens:

“The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass...” (Rev. 1:1)

Then John identifies the recipients:

“John to the seven churches which are in Asia” (1:4).

The chapter proceeds into a vision of the glorified Christ commissioning John to write what he sees.

Where are the alleged features of a Deuteronomic covenant preamble?

There is:

• no Mosaic covenant being ratified,
• no vassal nation assembling,
• no oath,
• no covenant stipulations being announced,
• no description of Israel accepting covenant obligations.

Instead we have an apocalyptic-prophetic commission and epistolary greeting.

Calling both sections “preambles” proves essentially nothing. Genesis has an opening. Romans has an opening. Ezekiel has an opening. An introductory chapter does not establish literary dependence upon Deuteronomy.

2. “Historical Prologue”: Deuteronomy 1:6–4:49 = Revelation 2–3?​

Here the alleged parallel becomes much worse.

The genuine historical prologue in Deuteronomy recounts Israel's actual covenant history:

• Horeb,
• departure into the wilderness,
• appointment of judges,
• Kadesh-barnea,
• Israel's unbelief,
• wilderness wandering,
• Edom,
• Moab,
• Ammon,
• Sihon,
• Og,
• the Transjordan conquest,
• Moses' exclusion from Canaan.

That is exactly what a historical prologue does: it recounts the previous relationship between the suzerain and vassal.

Now examine Revelation 2–3.

What history is recounted?

Virtually none.

Instead Christ sends seven contemporary prophetic messages:

“Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write...”
“Unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write...”
“Unto the angel of the church in Pergamos...”

and so forth.

These chapters concern the spiritual condition of seven churches:

• Ephesus lost its first love.
• Smyrna faces persecution.
• Pergamum tolerates false teaching.
• Thyatira tolerates Jezebel.
• Sardis is spiritually dead.
• Philadelphia perseveres.
• Laodicea is lukewarm.

That is not an historical prologue recounting God's covenant dealings with Israel.

Indeed, this creates a devastating internal problem for the theory:

If Revelation supposedly describes God terminating His Mosaic covenant with Israel, why is the alleged “historical prologue” addressed explicitly to seven Christian churches in Asia Minor rather than recounting Israel's covenant history?

The proposed correspondence exists only because someone has pasted the label “historical prologue” over material that plainly isn't one.

3. “Ethical Stipulations”: Deuteronomy 5–26 = Revelation 4–7?​

This is probably the most obvious collapse of the entire scheme.

Deuteronomy 5–26 genuinely contains covenant stipulations.

It contains hundreds of commandments governing:

• worship,
• idolatry,
• Sabbath,
• parents,
• murder,
• adultery,
• theft,
• festivals,
• sacrifices,
• clean and unclean foods,
• judges,
• kings,
• priests,
• warfare,
• marriage,
• property,
• slavery,
• loans,
• poverty,
• justice.

The repeated structure is essentially:

Israel, you shall do this; you shall not do that.

Now open Revelation 4–7.

What do we actually find?

Revelation 4​

John enters the heavenly throne room. God is worshipped by the living creatures and twenty-four elders.

Revelation 5​

The sealed scroll appears. The Lamb is revealed as worthy to open it.

Revelation 6​

Christ opens six seals and catastrophic judgments begin.

Revelation 7​

The 144,000 from the tribes of Israel are sealed, followed by the vision of the innumerable multitude.

Where are the “ethical stipulations”?

There aren't any.

Revelation 4:1 actually tells us what the section concerns:

“Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.”

That is revelation of coming events—not covenant legislation.

Deuteronomy 5–26 consists overwhelmingly of imperatives addressed to covenant Israel.

Revelation 4–7 consists overwhelmingly of visions describing heavenly events, worship, the Lamb, seals, judgment and preservation.

Calling Revelation 4–7 “ethical stipulations” is not exegesis. It is simply forcing predetermined headings onto unrelated material.

---

4. “Sanctions”: Deuteronomy 27–30 = Revelation 8–14?​

Here there is at least some genuine thematic overlap because both contain divine judgment.

But that does not establish structural identity.

Deuteronomy's sanctions contain very specific covenant blessings and curses upon Israel.

Deuteronomy 28 repeatedly says things such as:

“Blessed shalt thou be...”

and:

“But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God...”

The sanctions concern Israel's covenant experience:

• crops,
• livestock,
• disease,
• military defeat,
• famine,
• siege,
• foreign domination,
• expulsion from the land,
• exile.

Most importantly, Deuteronomy does not finish with Israel simply being destroyed and the covenant story ending.

Deuteronomy 30 explicitly predicts Israel's eventual repentance, regathering and restoration:

“And shalt return unto the LORD thy God...”
—Deut. 30:2

and:

“Then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations...”
—Deut. 30:3

So even the Deuteronomic sanctions themselves ultimately point toward Israel's restoration, not Israel's disappearance.

Now consider Revelation 8–14.

Yes, Revelation 8–9 contains trumpet judgments.

But then the proposed scheme arbitrarily includes:

• John's little scroll — Revelation 10
• the temple and Two Witnesses — Revelation 11
• the woman, child and dragon — Revelation 12
• the two beasts — Revelation 13
• the Lamb and 144,000 — Revelation 14
• the worldwide angelic proclamation — Revelation 14
• the harvest — Revelation 14

That is already much broader than “covenant sanctions.”

Worse, the theory places Revelation 15–22 outside its sanctions category.

Yet Revelation 15:1 explicitly says:

“seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.”

Then Revelation 16 contains the seven bowls of wrath—arguably the most intense series of judgments in Revelation.

If Revelation 8–14 constitutes the “sanctions” section, why aren't the seven bowls explicitly containing God's wrath included?

And what about:

• Babylon's destruction in Rev. 17–18,
• Christ destroying His enemies in Rev. 19,
• Satan's judgment in Rev. 20,
• the Great White Throne in Rev. 20?

All of those are judgments.

The proposed outline therefore cuts the judgment material apart at precisely the places where its theory says it should remain together.

There is another major problem: Revelation's judgments are repeatedly worldwide, not merely Mosaic sanctions against covenant Israel.

John speaks of:

“the inhabitants of the earth” (Rev. 8:13),

“the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues” (9:20),

and authority over:

“all kindreds, and tongues, and nations” (13:7).

The gospel is proclaimed:

“to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people” (14:6).

This is eschatological judgment upon the rebellious world and the kingdom of the Beast—not merely Yahweh executing Deuteronomy 28 against covenant Israel.

And ironically, Revelation depicts Israelites being sealed for protection:

“an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.”
—Rev. 7:4

That hardly looks like John's literary purpose is to announce the termination of Israel's covenantal significance.

 

[cv5]

3. “Ethical Stipulations”: Deuteronomy 5–26 = Revelation 4–7?​

This is probably the most obvious collapse of the entire scheme.

Deuteronomy 5–26 genuinely contains covenant stipulations.

It contains hundreds of commandments governing:

• worship,
• idolatry,
• Sabbath,
• parents,
• murder,
• adultery,
• theft,
• festivals,
• sacrifices,
• clean and unclean foods,
• judges,
• kings,
• priests,
• warfare,
• marriage,
• property,
• slavery,
• loans,
• poverty,
• justice.

The repeated structure is essentially:

Israel, you shall do this; you shall not do that.

Now open Revelation 4–7.

What do we actually find?

Revelation 4​

John enters the heavenly throne room. God is worshipped by the living creatures and twenty-four elders.

Revelation 5​

The sealed scroll appears. The Lamb is revealed as worthy to open it.

Revelation 6​

Christ opens six seals and catastrophic judgments begin.

Revelation 7​

The 144,000 from the tribes of Israel are sealed, followed by the vision of the innumerable multitude.

Where are the “ethical stipulations”?

There aren't any.

Revelation 4:1 actually tells us what the section concerns:

“Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.”

That is revelation of coming events—not covenant legislation.

Deuteronomy 5–26 consists overwhelmingly of imperatives addressed to covenant Israel.

Revelation 4–7 consists overwhelmingly of visions describing heavenly events, worship, the Lamb, seals, judgment and preservation.

Calling Revelation 4–7 “ethical stipulations” is not exegesis. It is simply forcing predetermined headings onto unrelated material.

---

4. “Sanctions”: Deuteronomy 27–30 = Revelation 8–14?​

Here there is at least some genuine thematic overlap because both contain divine judgment.

But that does not establish structural identity.

Deuteronomy's sanctions contain very specific covenant blessings and curses upon Israel.

Deuteronomy 28 repeatedly says things such as:

“Blessed shalt thou be...”

and:

“But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God...”

The sanctions concern Israel's covenant experience:

• crops,
• livestock,
• disease,
• military defeat,
• famine,
• siege,
• foreign domination,
• expulsion from the land,
• exile.

Most importantly, Deuteronomy does not finish with Israel simply being destroyed and the covenant story ending.

Deuteronomy 30 explicitly predicts Israel's eventual repentance, regathering and restoration:


and:


So even the Deuteronomic sanctions themselves ultimately point toward Israel's restoration, not Israel's disappearance.

Now consider Revelation 8–14.

Yes, Revelation 8–9 contains trumpet judgments.

But then the proposed scheme arbitrarily includes:

• John's little scroll — Revelation 10
• the temple and Two Witnesses — Revelation 11
• the woman, child and dragon — Revelation 12
• the two beasts — Revelation 13
• the Lamb and 144,000 — Revelation 14
• the worldwide angelic proclamation — Revelation 14
• the harvest — Revelation 14

That is already much broader than “covenant sanctions.”

Worse, the theory places Revelation 15–22 outside its sanctions category.

Yet Revelation 15:1 explicitly says:


Then Revelation 16 contains the seven bowls of wrath—arguably the most intense series of judgments in Revelation.

If Revelation 8–14 constitutes the “sanctions” section, why aren't the seven bowls explicitly containing God's wrath included?

And what about:

• Babylon's destruction in Rev. 17–18,
• Christ destroying His enemies in Rev. 19,
• Satan's judgment in Rev. 20,
• the Great White Throne in Rev. 20?

All of those are judgments.

The proposed outline therefore cuts the judgment material apart at precisely the places where its theory says it should remain together.

There is another major problem: Revelation's judgments are repeatedly worldwide, not merely Mosaic sanctions against covenant Israel.

John speaks of:

“the inhabitants of the earth” (Rev. 8:13),

“the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues” (9:20),

and authority over:

“all kindreds, and tongues, and nations” (13:7).

The gospel is proclaimed:

“to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people” (14:6).

This is eschatological judgment upon the rebellious world and the kingdom of the Beast—not merely Yahweh executing Deuteronomy 28 against covenant Israel.

And ironically, Revelation depicts Israelites being sealed for protection:


That hardly looks like John's literary purpose is to announce the termination of Israel's covenantal significance.

5. “Succession Arrangements”: Deuteronomy 31–34 = Revelation 15–22?​

This comparison is extraordinarily strained.
Deuteronomy 31–34 genuinely contains succession material because Moses is going to die.
Joshua succeeds him.
We therefore read:

“And Moses called unto Joshua, and said unto him in the sight of all Israel, Be strong and of a good courage...”
—Deut. 31:7

The Torah is deposited and commanded to be publicly read. Moses gives his prophetic song. He blesses Israel's tribes. Moses dies. Joshua assumes leadership.
That is actual succession.
Now examine Revelation 15–22.
Who succeeds whom?
Nobody.
Instead we find:

• Rev. 15–16 — seven bowls of wrath
• Rev. 17–18 — destruction of Babylon
• Rev. 19 — marriage supper and Second Coming
• Rev. 20 — millennium, Satan's final revolt, Great White Throne
• Rev. 21 — new heaven, new earth and New Jerusalem
• Rev. 22 — river of life, tree of life and Christ's concluding promise

Christ certainly doesn't appoint a successor.
Quite the opposite:

“they shall reign for ever and ever.”
—Rev. 22:5

And Christ concludes:

“Surely I come quickly.”
—Rev. 22:20

Calling Revelation 15–22 “succession arrangements” is therefore a category error.
Worse still, Revelation 15 begins with seven last plagues, meaning the author's supposedly new “succession” section begins by continuing precisely the judgment material that the proposed outline claims ended with chapter 14.
The artificial division defeats itself.

---

The fatal theological problem: Revelation never says it is “ending the covenant”​

This claim is simply imported into the book.
Revelation never announces:
“The Mosaic covenant is now terminated.”
Nor does John identify the book as a covenant-termination document.
In fact, according to the rest of the New Testament, the Mosaic covenant as Israel's governing legal administration had already been superseded through Christ.
Hebrews says:

“In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old.”
—Heb. 8:13

and:

“He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.”
—Heb. 10:9

Whatever one's precise understanding of Hebrews 8:13, Revelation—written within the New Testament era—cannot plausibly be presented as an event occurring later in history whose purpose is finally to terminate the Mosaic covenant.
That work is associated with Christ's redemptive work, not the bowl judgments of Revelation.
Moreover, ending the Mosaic Law does not abolish the unconditional Abrahamic and Davidic promises made to Israel.
Revelation itself concludes with Israel's tribal identity still prominently displayed:

“twelve gates... and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel.”
—Rev. 21:12

and the city's foundations bear:

“the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.”
—Rev. 21:14

Israel has not mysteriously vanished from the biblical story.

---

​

 

[cv5]

5. “Succession Arrangements”: Deuteronomy 31–34 = Revelation 15–22?​

This comparison is extraordinarily strained.
Deuteronomy 31–34 genuinely contains succession material because Moses is going to die.
Joshua succeeds him.
We therefore read:

The Torah is deposited and commanded to be publicly read. Moses gives his prophetic song. He blesses Israel's tribes. Moses dies. Joshua assumes leadership.
That is actual succession.
Now examine Revelation 15–22.
Who succeeds whom?
Nobody.
Instead we find:

• Rev. 15–16 — seven bowls of wrath
• Rev. 17–18 — destruction of Babylon
• Rev. 19 — marriage supper and Second Coming
• Rev. 20 — millennium, Satan's final revolt, Great White Throne
• Rev. 21 — new heaven, new earth and New Jerusalem
• Rev. 22 — river of life, tree of life and Christ's concluding promise

Christ certainly doesn't appoint a successor.
Quite the opposite:

And Christ concludes:

Calling Revelation 15–22 “succession arrangements” is therefore a category error.
Worse still, Revelation 15 begins with seven last plagues, meaning the author's supposedly new “succession” section begins by continuing precisely the judgment material that the proposed outline claims ended with chapter 14.
The artificial division defeats itself.

---

The fatal theological problem: Revelation never says it is “ending the covenant”​

This claim is simply imported into the book.
Revelation never announces:
“The Mosaic covenant is now terminated.”
Nor does John identify the book as a covenant-termination document.
In fact, according to the rest of the New Testament, the Mosaic covenant as Israel's governing legal administration had already been superseded through Christ.
Hebrews says:

and:

Whatever one's precise understanding of Hebrews 8:13, Revelation—written within the New Testament era—cannot plausibly be presented as an event occurring later in history whose purpose is finally to terminate the Mosaic covenant.
That work is associated with Christ's redemptive work, not the bowl judgments of Revelation.
Moreover, ending the Mosaic Law does not abolish the unconditional Abrahamic and Davidic promises made to Israel.
Revelation itself concludes with Israel's tribal identity still prominently displayed:

and the city's foundations bear:

Israel has not mysteriously vanished from the biblical story.

---

​

What is actually happening?​

The mistake is confusing intertextual allusion with literary structure.
Revelation draws heavily from the entire Old Testament:

• Genesis
• Exodus
• Deuteronomy
• Psalms
• Isaiah
• Jeremiah
• Ezekiel
• Daniel
• Joel
• Zechariah

The trumpet and bowl judgments, for example, unmistakably recall the Egyptian plagues of Exodus as much as, or more than, Deuteronomic covenant sanctions. Revelation's throne imagery strongly echoes Isaiah 6 and Ezekiel 1; its beasts depend heavily upon Daniel 7; its Jerusalem material draws deeply from Ezekiel and Zechariah. The Gospel Coalition
Therefore the valid observation is:
“Revelation employs Deuteronomic covenant-judgment imagery among many other Old Testament motifs.”
The invalid leap is:
“Therefore Revelation possesses Deuteronomy's covenant-treaty structure and records the termination of God's covenant with Israel.”
That conclusion simply does not follow.
The proposed correspondence reduces to this:

Claimed parallel	What Revelation actually contains
1. Preamble	Apocalyptic/prophetic introduction and vision of Christ
2. Historical Prologue	Seven messages to Christian churches
3. Ethical Stipulations	Throne room, Lamb, seals and 144,000
4. Sanctions	Some judgments, mixed with witnesses, Israel, Beast and cosmic conflict
5. Succession Arrangements	Bowls, Babylon, Second Coming, millennium, final judgment and new creation

Only #4 possesses any substantial thematic resemblance, and even there it is merely the obvious fact that both books contain divine judgment.
The strongest evidence against the scheme is therefore Revelation itself. Its actual contents refuse to fit the labels being imposed upon them. The thesis takes five headings derived from one proposed analysis of Deuteronomy and then retrofits them onto five arbitrarily selected blocks of Revelation irrespective of their contents.
That isn't demonstrated parallelism. It is parallelism manufactured by relabeling the text.

 

[Psalm1]

Yes, but not by murdering, stealing, robbing, pedefhiling.....

You just described what Mohammed endorsed.
He did it and encouraged those "holy acts" in his book.
The Jews using the bible correctly would not BE ENCOURAGED to do any of it.

 

[Churchgoer]

You just described what Mohammed endorsed.
He did it and encouraged those "holy acts" in his book.
The Jews using the bible correctly would not BE ENCOURAGED to do any of it.

If jews use the Bible correctly, we should call them brothers sisters in Christ.
Those that reject Jesus, remember? And continue stay in darkness, refusing the light.
John 3