Replacement theology? Yes or No.

[WayneNSO]

I know Brother, Just helping.

Thank you

 

[Psalm1]

I'm ALMOST surprised that the unbelievers haven't told us that we're accusing God/Jesus of POLYGAMY!!!


But this is how it works:

The Two Wives Made One — A Deeper Reading​

1. The Two Wives, Clearly Distinguished​

The Bible sets up two distinct covenantal marriages from the very beginning:

The Father's Bride — Israel

• Hosea 2:19 — "I will betroth you to me forever; I will betroth you to me in righteousness and in justice, in steadfast love and in mercy."
• Isaiah 54:5 — "For your Maker is your husband— the LORD of hosts is his name, and the Holy One of Israel is he who is to be praised."
• Jeremiah 31:32 — "But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people."
• Ezekiel 16:8 — "So I passed by you and looked upon you, behold, you were at the age for love. I spread the corner of my robe over you and covered your nakedness... and I betrothed you to myself and made a covenant with you, declares the Lord GOD, and you became mine."

The Son's Bride — the Church

• Ephesians 5:25-27 — "Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her... that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish."
• 2 Corinthians 11:2 — "For I feel a divine jealousy for you, since I betrothed you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ."

Note the critical word in 2 Cor 11:2: "one husband." The Church is betrothed to a single bridegroom — the Son — not the Father. The Father's bride is Israel; the Son's bride is the Church. Two separate covenants, two separate marriages.

2. The "Barren" and the "Married" — Two Wives in One Prophecy​

Isaiah 54:1-3 is the single most important passage for your point, and it's worth reading in full:



Read this carefully:

• The "desolate" / "barren" woman = Israel, temporarily set aside.
• The "married" woman = the Church, currently in her covenant-marriage with Christ.
• The prophecy says the barren woman will have more children than the married one — both will be fruitful.
• Then verse 5: "For your Maker is your husband" — the same God who is the Father's husband to Israel is speaking. He is not replacing one marriage with another. He is restoring the first and confirming the second.
• Verses 7-8: "with everlasting kindness I will have compassion on you... my covenant of peace shall not be removed."

Nice!
90% of Christianity knows nothing of the 2 wives.
(The dynamic that FRAMES Gods ETERNAL PURPOSE and folks are oblivious.)

SMH.
Fire every pastor that hasn't bothered to consult heaven.

 

[Churchgoer]

Yes, your lost your case. Nice try at bandaging up your shabby false doctrine.
And despite all of your continuous losses, you choose NOT to repent and receive the truth.
Sound familiar?

Loss what?
You are lost buddy. Time to come back to God's family

 

[Revelation1v8]

That's good but still avoids the origin of many doctrines held today

No, what it shows is that as we approach the end times, that we're being brought back to remembrance of the things that God/Jesus intended for us to know and understand.

 

[WayneNSO]

No, what it shows is that as we approach the end times, that we're being brought back to remembrance of the things that God/Jesus intended for us to know and understand.

That is my belief also, although I think we are still a long way from it, but then again things can happen quickly just when you think all hope is lost

 

[Psalm1]

The Rev Clarence Larkin, was an American Baptist pastor who lived from 1850 to 1924. His writings on dispensationalism had a great impact on Protestant churches in the 20th century, mainly because of his elaborate charts. A well known book of his is called "dispensational Truth" published in 1918, and it has been called the second bible of prophecy for Eschatology students.

Now bear in mind that this book and the elaborate charts within it, are about the futurist teaching of Revelation. And he made his money promoting the futurist viewpoint with his preachings and writings. Yet at the beginning of this book we have this confession:

"The “Preterist School” originated with the Jesuit Alcazar. His view was first put forth as a complete scheme in his work on the
Apocalypse, published in A. D. 1614. It limits the scope of the Apocalypse to the events of the Apostle John’s life, and affirms that the whole prophecy was fulfilled in the destruction of Jerusalem by Titus, and the subsequent fall of the persecuting Roman Empire, thus making the Emperor Nero the "Antichrist." The purpose of the scheme was transpdrent, it was to relieve the Papal Church from the stigma of being called the "Harlot Church" and the Pope from being called the "Antichrist." ...

The "Historical School," sometimes spoken of as the "Presentist" scheme, interprets the Apocalypse as a series of prophecies predicting the events that were to happen in the world and in the Church from John’s day to the end of time. The advocates of this School interpret the symbols of the Book of Revelation as referring to certain historical events that have and are happening in the world. They claim that "Antichrist" is a "System" rather than a "Person," and is represented by the Harlot Church of Rome. They interpret the "Time Element" in the Book on the "Year Day Scale." This School has had some very able and ingenious advocates.
This view, like the preceding was unknown to the early church. It appeared about the middle of the Twelfth Century, and was systematized in the beginning of the Thirteenth Century by the Abbot Joachim. Subsequently it was adopted and applied to the Pope by the forerunners and leaders of the Reformation, and may be said to have reached its zenith in Mr. Elliott’s "Horae Apocalypticae." It is frequently called the Protestant interpretation because it regards Popery as exhausting all that has been predicted of the Antichristian power. It was a powerful and formidable weapon in the hands of the leaders of the Reformation, and the conviction of its truthfulness nerved them to "love not their lives unto the death." It was the secret of the martyr heroism of the Sixteenth Century.

The "Futurist School" interprets the language of the Apocalypse "literally," except such symbols as are named as such, and holds that the whole of the Book, from the end of the third chapter, is yet "future" and unfulfilled, and that the greater part of the Book, from the beginning of chapter six to the end of chapter nineteen, describes what shall come to pass during the last week of "Daniel’s Seventy Weeks."

...In its present form it may be said to have originated at the end of the Sixteenth Century, with the Jesuit Ribera, who, actuated by the same motive as the Jesuit Alcazar, sought to rid the Papacy of the stigma of being called the "Antichrist," and so referred the prophecies of the Apocalypse to the distant future. This view was accepted by the Roman Catholic Church and was for a long time confined to it, but, strange to say, it has wonderfully revived since the beginning of the Nineteenth Century, and that among Protestants.

...The "Futurist" interpretation of scripture is the one employed in this book."

(Dispensational Truth, or God's Plan and Purpose in the Ages, By Clarence Larkin, 1918)

So Clarence Larkin is admitting that the school of thought that he follows came about to rid the Papacy of the stigma of being called the Anti-Christ. But I guess thats where the money was.

Any time we see "dispensationalist" or "Darby" or "scofield" used to "prove" their case, it is best to skip whatever blather follows.

They can't open a bible to defend their position.
So one liners and attack the messenger gets pulled like a gunslinger. Then they blow the smoke off their finger, thinking they did something.

 

[HeIsHere]

The gospel according ST Scofield was definitely a powerful influence, Oxford press opened its first publishers in the USA just to promote it. And if memory serves me well Moody then made sure that Bible was in every Bible collage and school in the USA.

Yes talking tours in churches leaflets, booklets... it was all organized.

Imagine being taught you would be whisked away at some point, quite a powerful carrot!! LOL

 

[WayneNSO]

Any time we see "dispensationalist" or "Darby" or "scofield" used to "prove" their case, it is best to skip whatever blather follows.

They can't open a bible to defend their position.
So one liners and attack the messenger gets pulled like a gunslinger. Then they blow the smoke off their finger, thinking they did something.

I agree but that doesn't relate to the post of mine that you replied to

 

[Churchgoer]

Oh yea, you tried a RT switcheroo alright.
But you failed. And it was conclusively proven that ALL of those Scriptural references indicate that in fact it is GOMER aka ISRAEL who will be redeemed, remarried, restored.

Key Terms and Action Verbs Used in Hosea

Betroth (’āraś): Hosea 2:19–20 uses this specific marital term three times: "I will betroth you to me forever... in righteousness and in justice, in steadfast love and in mercy. I will betroth you to me in faithfulness." This marks a total covenant re-establishment.

Love (‘āhab): Hosea 3:1 commands Hosea: "Go again, love a woman who is loved by another lover and is an adulteress, even as the Lord loves the children of Israel." God's primary action toward her is persistent, unmerited love.

Buy / Ransom / Redeem (kārāh / pādāh): Hosea 3:2 records Hosea physically purchasing Gomer out of servitude for 15 shekels of silver and a measure of barley—a direct act of redemption. God uses the explicit redeem/ransom vocabulary in Hosea 13:14: "I shall ransom (pādāh) them from the power of Sheol; I shall redeem (gā’al) them from Death."

Show Mercy / Pity (rāḥam): God reverses the prophetic judgment of Hosea's children's names to signal restoration: "I will have mercy on No Mercy [Lo-Ruhamah], and I will say to Not My People [Lo-Ammi], 'You are my people'" (Hosea 2:23).

Allure and Speak Comfortably (pātāh & dābar ‘al-lēb): Hosea 2:14 states, "I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak tenderly to her"—drawing her away from her idols to restore her heart.

Heal (rāpā’): Hosea 14:4 describes spiritual restoration: "I will heal their apostasy; I will love them freely, for my anger has turned from them."
Purify / Remove: Purification is framed as removing temptation: "I will remove the names of the Baals from her mouth, and they shall be remembered by name no more" (Hosea 2:17).

In Hosea, gomer never got official divorce paper.

But in other books, Israel got the divorce paper from God.

Once biblically divorced, need to be born again to marry new.

One last time repeating myself.

 

[WayneNSO]

Yes talking tours in churches leaflets, booklets... it was all organized.

Imagine being taught you would be whisked away at some point, quite a powerful carrot!! LOL

Whisked away carrots ? has this thread now become a cookery lesson ?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

James 4:7...we can resist the devil and he will flee from us. He may be strutting like a lion, but he's a pussy cat compared to the power that resides in any Christian.

Yeah

“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: ( you hear bound harmless pussycat I hear a string and active enemy trying to destroy gods people )


whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world. ( pussycat seems to be causing a lot of afflictions against the brethren in tbe world )

But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.” ( but through patience and diligence we can overcome )
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭5:8-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a roaring lion actively working to devour folk . This doesn’t translate to a bound pussycat brother . If it was so the apostles would have presented the enemy as a bound harmless pussycat instead they explained the opposite a strong and a to e enemy that we need to remain vigilant against …… bound pussycat isn’t the right grasp of the enemy

christians can overcome because he is with us but again our enemy isn’t bound and inactive he’s roaming through the earth destroying people and they don’t even know it




“Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.( active not bound )

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. ( active struggle against the enemy )

Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; and your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭6:11-17‬ ‭KJV

We can carry with us the armor and sword given freely but we should be ready to face a dangerous enemy that’s been around for ages and seen men through and through . He’s prepared to do battle with people . A bound Pussycat is not a good view of the enemy


But if we do our part we can overcome him

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.”
‭‭James‬ ‭4:7-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬


that doesn’t really jive brother it looks more like Christian’s are actively struggling against an enemy that is loosed and very dangerous

if he’s already bound and a pussycat why all the dire instruction to stand against him ? Seems like we’re being given a winning plan for sure but why not just explain that the devil is bound if that’s the case ? Why waste time teaching Christian’s about an active and dangerous enemy working against them ?

 

[Revelation1v8]

So Clarence Larkin is admitting that the school of thought that he follows came about to rid the Papacy of the stigma of being called the Anti-Christ. But I guess thats where the money was.

That thought hasn't changed much over the years concerning the Papacy. Many today still consider them tied to the Beast.

Larkin may have been trying to defend them against being called, the Anti-Christ, but they aren't doing themselves any favors by denying many aspects of God's Word in practice and denying His Millennial Kingdom.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Thank you...

You also thanks for the conversation

 

[WayneNSO]

That thought hasn't changed much over the years concerning the Papacy.

Larkin may have been trying to defend them against being called, the Anti-Christ, but they aren't doing themselves any favors by denying many aspects of God's Word in practice and denying His Millennial Kingdom.

Or he just saw where the money was - God only knows

 

[Revelation1v8]

Or he just saw where the money was - God only knows

Here's what I believe. If a Baptist pastor is trying to defend the Papacy, it's only because he's afraid that people will start to believe that the whole Christian religion is a farce. I don't think it has anything to do with money.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

There was an argument about Jesus re marry Israel.Because Jesus died, so Jesus can re marry adulteror.

Not true, Jesus as the innocent spouse, he can remarry after official biblical divorce.

However, the adulteror being divorced, can't remarry.

Luke 16
Deuteronomy 24

If a person is born again by holy spirit, a new person is free to marry. Hallelujah!!!

this is meant for those who are born again

“but I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery:


and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:32‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭19:7-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬


this doctrine is for those who are born again

 

[WayneNSO]

Here's what I believe. If a Baptist pastor is trying to defend the Papacy, it's only because he's afraid that people will start to believe that the whole Christian religion is a farce. I don't think it has anything to do with money.

Maybe I am too cynical

 

[HeIsHere]

"The “Preterist School” originated with the Jesuit Alcazar. His view was first put forth as a complete scheme in his work on the
Apocalypse, published in A. D. 1614. It limits the scope of the Apocalypse to the events of the Apostle John’s life, and affirms that the whole prophecy was fulfilled in the destruction of Jerusalem by Titus, and the subsequent fall of the persecuting Roman Empire, thus making the Emperor Nero the "Antichrist." The purpose of the scheme was transparent, it was to relieve the Papal Church from the stigma of being called the "Harlot Church" and the Pope from being called the "Antichrist." ...

This story of the origin circulated online is debatable.

The early church knew of the fulfilled words of Christ Jesus but just like the Gospel it did not take long for it to be oppressed.

“The Historical Basis of Preterism,” Greg Bahnsen and Kenneth Gentry demonstrate a “Nascent Preterism in Antiquity.”
So there are early church writers who writing about first century events.

 

[Churchgoer]

this is meant for those who are born again

“but I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery:


and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:32‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭19:7-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬


this doctrine is for those who are born again

Correct.
So for a biblical single person, be careful who you will date. Do not date/ marry someone who is not biblical available.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The condemnation of Satan is now gone thanks to Jesus.
There is no condemnation for those that are in Christ Jesus.
His accusation against the believers in Jesus are unfounded. We are a new creation in Christ.

Yeah I don’t know what some of you do with what the bible actually says though

“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭5:8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That sort of ends the idea of a bound harmless inactive enemy against believers …. saying that’s not true or not accurate about the enemy doesn’t change it. Clearly we have an active and very strong enemy in the world that has always been destroying mankind.

Jesus overcame him but then he instructs believers …. To actively participate in overcoming him also

to say satans bound or inactive or that he has no power in the world against gods people …..isn’t a good idea he will exploit that

to tell Christian’s they can overcome the enemy through Christ Jesus is a correct and good idea . But there are instructions …….first would be to acknowledge what the word teaches about our active enemy working against us