looking for help reconciling the Sabbath with common observation?

[Davidstarr]

Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day

The Weekly Sabbath is a Sabbath Day is it not?

But not the ONLY sabbath day of rest mentioned.
Obviously Paul is talking about holy days, new moon sabbaths and other sabbath days associated with those same Mosaic Law celebrations. They were "dated" holidays and never fell on the same day of the week year after year.

But he does not specifically include the 7th day sabbath in this group.
The sabbath day of the 4th commandment is one of the 10 commandments.

The only way to get rid of one of God's 10 commandments is to do away with that entire law.

Do you even know what each of those 10 commandments are?

 

[Davidstarr]

That’s irrelevant. The topic is Colossians 2:16.

Not at all irrelevant. Col 2:16 does not specifically state he is talking about the 7th day sabbath.
But obviously the other sabbath days of rest associated with their Jewish holidays, feast days and new moon sabbaths.

But Lev 23:3 is obviously taking about the 4th commandment NOT those other sabbath days.

 

[Roger316]

Your objection is against thee authority of the Lord and His Word.

No, my objection is against your errors of interpretation, which I highlighted and you have yet to rebut

 

[Roger316]

Priscilla was married AND a teacher. Paul affirmed her. Your interpretation of Paul’s letter to Timothy makes Paul inconsistent.

Can you remind me of the passage where it says that Priscilla was a teacher?

 

[Roger316]

You have assumed much that the text does not say.

I would be helpful if you were specific.

 

[Roger316]

But not the ONLY sabbath day of rest mentioned.
Obviously Paul is talking about holy days, new moon sabbaths and other sabbath days associated with those same Mosaic Law celebrations. They were "dated" holidays and never fell on the same day of the week year after year.

But he does not specifically include the 7th day sabbath in this group.
The sabbath day of the 4th commandment is one of the 10 commandments.

The only way to get rid of one of God's 10 commandments is to do away with that entire law.

Do you even know what each of those 10 commandments are?

He doesn't make the reservation you are making. That is, he doesn't qualify the Sabbath as High Sabbaths as you suggest.

 

[Dino246]

Not at all irrelevant. Col 2:16 does not specifically state he is talking about the 7th day sabbath.
But obviously the other sabbath days of rest associated with their Jewish holidays, feast days and new moon sabbaths.

But Lev 23:3 is obviously taking about the 4th commandment NOT those other sabbath days.

You made this post earlier:

I agree.
And there is no evidence in Col 2:16 that Paul is talking about the weekly 7th day sabbath here.

So whatever Leviticus says is irrelevant. The topic is Colossians 2:16. The plain text does not suggest anything other than the weekly sabbath. Your argument is that because there are other kinds of sabbath events mentioned in Leviticus, that Paul means something else. You are the one who must prove your assertion, and you haven’t done so.

 

[Dino246]

I would be helpful if you were specific.

Remove your added words and your assumptions and read the text again.

 

[Davidstarr]

You made this post earlier:

So whatever Leviticus says is irrelevant. The topic is Colossians 2:16. The plain text does not suggest anything other than the weekly sabbath. Your argument is that because there are other kinds of sabbath events mentioned in Leviticus, that Paul means something else. You are the one who must prove your assertion, and you haven’t done so.

But I have shown Col 2:16 is talking about feast days, holidays, new moons.
You just refuse to see what is staring right at your face.
Please show that Paul is specifically referring to the 7th day sabbath here.

NVM, you can't. The text does not specify that it is.....

 

[Dino246]

But I have shown Col 2:16 is talking about feast days, holidays, new moons.
You just refuse to see what is staring right at your face.
Please show that Paul is specifically referring to the 7th day sabbath here.

NVM, you can't. The text does not specify that it is.....

And you are stating something that you can defend with equal weight… nothing.

 

[ScooterJackson]

No, my objection is against your errors of interpretation, which I highlighted and you have yet to rebut

Apparently you cannot read and you have embraced deception that puts women in authority

Quote from - 1 Timothy 3:1-13
This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desires a good work.
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife

Quote from - Titus 1:6-9
If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God

 

[ScooterJackson]

Can you remind me of the passage where it says that Priscilla was a teacher?

There are no passages the make 1 Timothy 3:1-13 and Titus 1:6-9 to be lies allowing women to be pastors, teachers are church leaders in authority over men within the Body of Christ.

Woman can teach other women and they can teach children.
But they cannot teach men as they would be inverting God's ways of being and doing right.

Jesus had opportunity to select at least one woman to be one of His Apostles but He did not because He never inverted God's ways of being and doing right like the tares seek to do in opposition to the Lord.

 

[Davidstarr]

And you are stating something that you can defend with equal weight… nothing.

So you admit you also cannot definitively prove Paul meant the 7th day sabbath.

 

[Dino246]

So you admit you also cannot definitively prove Paul meant the 7th day sabbath.

I’m not going to waste time defending what I did not say.

 

[TMS]

False witnesses said that Paul didn't keep the Torah

	Acts 20
22​	What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.
23​	Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;
24​	Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the Law.
25​	As touching the gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.
26​	Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.

Paul helped to pay for the Animal Sacrifices that were required to end a Nazarite Vow according to the Torah.

Do you believe Paul was a Hypocrite, He pretended to keep the Torah when he was around Jews, but didn't keep it when he was around other Ethnos-Races?

Either Paul is a hypocrite or you are a false witness

Paul is not a hypocrite

Paul did keep the Torah and the law.

But there is a distinction between the shadow laws and the laws that Paul kept.

Paul said.
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Abolished this law and nailed it to the cross.

But Paul also said...
Rom 3:31 KJV Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Establish the law which is good. Love keeps the law...

Same person.. the difference is which law Paul was referring to.

The shadow laws were nailed to the cross. Jesus was the antitype and there is no need to make animal sacrifices today when Jesus has offered up His blood.

Two different laws.

 

[ScooterJackson]

Paul did keep the Torah and the law.

If true then he fell from grace like the Galatians and went to hell.

Galatians 5:4 - Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

But Paul also said...
Rom 3:31 KJV Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Speaking of the Law of Christ not the law of Moses

Law of Christ - Galatians 6:2, 1 Corinthians 9:21, James 2:12, James 1:25, Romans 8:2

Jesus took the law of Moses away and established a New Covenant

Hebrews 10:9 - Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

 

[TMS]

Don't ignore the background and context to generalize a concept meant to be specific.

Consider Romans 5, where Paul's argument depends on the distinction between a transgression, a violation of what God explicitly commanded, and a sin, an immoral act. Death reigned from Adam till Moses, proving that sin existed, but until Moses, sin was not imputed or identified as such.

The point is, the Fourth Commandment, being one of God's laws as you say, was unique to Israel and not a universal moral imperative. God says this explicitly in Deuteronomy. The Sabbath Day is given as a sign of God's relationship with those who came out of Egypt and their families unto many generations.

God made the sabbath for man and God made it for for before sin

Before sin. Murder was wrong.
Before sin. Taking God's name in vain was wrong.
Before sin Lying was wrong.

If God made the sabbath holy and sanctified it for man before sin... it was sinful to not keep it holy and not sanctify it.

If was sinful to transgress all 10 of the commandments before God wrote them in stone.

 

[ScooterJackson]

God made the sabbath for man and God made it for for before sin

Before sin. Murder was wrong.
Before sin. Taking God's name in vain was wrong.
Before sin Lying was wrong.

If God made the sabbath holy and sanctified it for man before sin... it was sinful to not keep it holy and not sanctify it.

If was sinful to transgress all 10 of the commandments before God wrote them in stone.

And yet it wasn't until the law of Moses was given that not keeping the sabbath day became sinful.

By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

These verses are frequently used to prove that the Sabbath rest was instituted prior to its inclusion in the Mosaic Law. However, there is no command in this passage to keep the Sabbath nor was it practiced prior to the giving of the Law on Mount Sinai. These verses merely document God’s resting from His work on the seventh day.

The Sabbath was ordained as part of the Mosaic Law in Exodus 20:8-11 . The nation of Israel was commanded by God to have a complete day of worship and rest. Specifically this was to be a day of worship as well as rest. It was to commemorate the fact the God completed the creation in six days. God did not rest on the seventh day because He was tired, but because there was nothing further that He wished to do. Exodus 20:8-11 also provides an excellent reason for the six days of creation being literal twenty-four hour days.

The purpose of the Sabbath for Israel is explained in the next verse, “I gave them My sabbaths to be a sign between Me and them, that they might know that I am the Lord who sanctifies them” (Eze. 20:12. The Sabbath was a symbol of a covenant between God and Israel, signifying that it was the Lord who set apart Israel from the other nations.

In Deuteronomy 5:12-15, the Israelites were commanded to keep the Sabbath as a memorial of their deliverance from Egypt by God’s mighty hand. In the Old Testament, violating the Sabbath resulted in a person’s excommunication from Israel, or even death (Num 15:32-35.

Following the Apostle Paul’s conversion, the synagogue was not his place of worship; it was his mission field. He went there to reason with the Jews.

“And according to Paul’s custom, he went to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures, explaining and giving evidence that the Christ had to suffer and rise again from the dead, and saying, ‘This Jesus whom I am proclaiming to you is the Christ’” (Acts 17:2-4.

The word sabbath only occurs two times in the New Testament epistles. For the believer today, a Sabbath rest is described in Hebrews 4:9 as a moment-by-moment rest by believers in the Lord by faith. This reference contains no commandment concerning which day the church should meet for worship.

In Romans 14:4-5, each believer must be fully convinced in their own mind as to the day of worship. In Colossians 2:16 , believers are admonished not to judge one another in regard to their views on the Sabbath day. This means there is no universal command for the church today to worship on the Saturday. The early church gathered together on the first day of the week to commemorate the Lord’s resurrection Acts 20:7. The New Testament does not equate church worship and Sabbath observance.

The Sabbath was part of the Mosaic Law from which the believer was set free (Rom. 8:1-4. “Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes” (Rom. 10:4. Christ redeemed believers from the curse of the Law (Gal. 3:10-13.

Paul describes the Law as a tutor that leads us to Christ “so that we may be justified by faith” (Gal. 3:24, Rom. 3:20. In Romans 10:4, Paul wrote, “For Christ is the end [termination or conclusion] of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.”

Sabbath worship will be reinstated in the Millennium.

The people of the land shall also worship at the doorway of that gate before the Lord on the sabbaths and on the new moons Eze. 46:3.

And it shall come to pass that from one New Moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, all flesh shall come to worship before Me (Isa. 66:23).

 

[TMS]

I know, but you can't argue as if this is true. You need to prove it. And I can confidently say that you can't prove it.

That is what you need to prove. The Fourth Commandment doesn't apply to everyone. Just because it is included among the others in a set, doesn't mean they apply equally to each and every human being. If it did, then Paul could never write this: Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— ;things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ." According to Paul, the weekly Sabbath is a shadow of the substance that belongs to Christ. He couldn't say this about the commandment against murder or adultery, can he?

You say 9 of the 10 are moral laws but use col 2 to prove the sabbath was a shadow law.

Col 2 is specific about which laws were nailed to the cross.

Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

The law of ordinances...

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

What was blotted out and nailed to the cross? ... the law of ordinances

Verse 16
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Sabbath days were a big part of the law of ordinances.

These sabbath days were rest days that fell on any day of the week. Including the 7th day...

Prove that the sabbath mentioned in Col 2:16 is the 7th day sabbath of the 10 commandments.

The annual sabbaths were ceremonial ordinances designed as temporary shadows pointing to the work of Christ.

The 7th day sabbath was created before sin.

The ceremonial "sabbaths" were part of the "handwriting of ordinances" delivered by Moses to the children of Israel. These days were connected to annual feasts, meats, drinks, and sacrificial offerings that prefigured the mission of the Messiah.

They were a shadow.

How does the weekly sabbath become a shadow of Christ. Don't say He is our rest, because the sabbath would need to be 24 hours 7 days a week.

These shadow days—such as the Passover, the Day of Atonement, and the Feast of Tabernacles—were "shadows of things to come," pointing forward to Christ's sacrifice and ministration.

If you use one verse to hold up the entire argument and this verse is questionable and contradicts other verses your argument is very weak.

 

[ScooterJackson]

Don't say He is our rest, because the sabbath would need to be 24 hours 7 days a week.

We are supposed to abide in Christ 24/7/365 because He is our rest

The sabbath people try to abide in Christ just one day a week.
The must be livin for the devil the other six days or something. Party animals!

Rest in the Lord under the New Covenant

Matthew 11:28
Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Hebrews 4:9-10
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Matthew 11:29-30
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.