Shall we sin that grace may abound?

[Freed18]

well la de dah no kidding, eh? God has nothing to do with you disagreeing. Nothing and I have no expectation you or the get wet to get sinless gang will ever agree

it's very freeing to have no expectations when it comes to those who take scripture according to false understanding and then make
a huge fuss about it



Nah. Your response is all wet.

If baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins is uneccessary, then Jesus died for nothing.
Whatever it is that you think washes away past sins, could have stood in His place the whole time.

 

[Freed18]

News flash: Water does not wash away sin but I understand that you are taught that and retain that incorrect teaching.

As it is written in 1 John 5:8, the water, blood, and Spirit are all the same, at baptism.

Water and soap does work for bathing though.

I agree.

I'm moving on from this idea that water washes away sin. It has been dealt with many times in this forum and no scripture states
that water washes away sin unless you refuse to take into account other scripture dealing with baptism and what it is really about.

Water washed away sins at John's baptism.
It is written..."John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins." (Mark 4:1)
It still does, when done in the name of Jesus Christ.

Kindly don't expect more from me on your ideas.

I'm glad they are the ideas of God.

 

[Freed18]

The point is that eternal salvation happens before water baptism. The baptism is for the fact you already got saved. Compare this acts verse with most of the book of John and parts of Romans. Justified by faith without water baptism.

You may mean conversion there, as salvation won't be assured until the day of the resurrection.

 

[Tchawk]

As it is written in 1 John 5:8, the water, blood, and Spirit are all the same, at baptism.

I agree.

Water washed away sins at John's baptism.
It is written..."John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins." (Mark 4:1)
It still does, when done in the name of Jesus Christ.

I'm glad they are the ideas of God.

Blood and water flowed

 

[wattie]

You may mean conversion there, as salvation won't be assured until the day of the resurrection.

John 10:27-29 KJV
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: [28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. [29] My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

99% obedience, equates to NOT serving God 100%.
Had anyone actuallty submitted to the Holy Spirit, he would never commit a sin.

If my familial/national/or even supposed faith brother commits a sin, he has manifested that his repentance from sin was a lie to God.
They were not my brother in Christ, as they still brought forth the fruit of Adam.

God acknowledges that those who fall away were only posers from the start.
God's seed cannot bring forth liars, thieves, murderers, or adulterers.

What it really boils down to is that the sins you commit you don't consider as sins. That's why you think you're sinless, lol!

You don't actually believe the verses that show Christians still sin occasionally. Unbelief is a sin - and you committed it right in this thread!

But you do you. Carry on in your delusion.

 

[pinebeach]

John 10:27-29 KJV
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: [28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. [29] My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Makes you wonder what they are actually hearing.

 

[wattie]

Makes you wonder what they are actually hearing.

Yeah, it's a hire purchase agreement. Salvation conditional on performance. That's not real love. Real love has unconditional grace underpinning discipline

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Is that because at some point the Blood of Jesus become ineffective?

It’s just that Jesus blood doesn’t erase his word it made it eternal and effective . But the blood isn’t why we get to reject the word

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yeah, it's a hire purchase agreement. Salvation conditional on performance. That's not real love. Real love has unconditional grace underpinning discipline

Sometimes it’s hard to see past our personal opinions …..to hear what’s being said by

The lord Jesus

““Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—

those who have done what is good will rise to live,

and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-


One of his apostles Paul

“Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance? But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.

There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad. Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade others. What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-

sadly some folks will not be persuaded by the apostles argument there not knowing what it is to fear God and what his grace that saves actually was meant to do

But it does little good somehow to point to arguments like this

“For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good. These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:11-15‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Even though all those verses are plain and to the point easy to understand …. Few ever accept what they are saying in these modern Christian times we’ve created our own versions of explainations like that

If we hear his word and accept it it will change how we think about God like the gospel is meant to do for a person who believes .

Saying it doesn’t meet our personal version of what love is doesn’t change what it says at all it’s the same from beginning to end

“Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.”
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭12:13-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Us now saying “ that’s not love “ that’s not really gods grace ….. doesn’t and shouldn’t change our minds but accepting what it says is meant to change our minds and correct our thinking so we’ll repent

We don’t want to change is why we reject it though we want to enjoy serving sin still and then have a message that “ regardless we’ll be saved unconditionally “

But really it comes by accepting the things he taught rather than rejecting them

 

[wattie]

Sometimes it’s hard to see past our personal opinions …..to hear what’s being said by

The lord Jesus

““Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—

those who have done what is good will rise to live,

and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-


One of his apostles Paul

“Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance? But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.

There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad. Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade others. What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-

sadly some folks will not be persuaded by the apostles argument there not knowing what it is to fear God and what his grace that saves actually was meant to do

But it does little good somehow to point to arguments like this

“For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good. These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:11-15‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Even though all those verses are plain and to the point easy to understand …. Few ever accept what they are saying in these modern Christian times we’ve created our own versions of explainations like that

If we hear his word and accept it it will change how we think about God like the gospel is meant to do for a person who believes .

Saying it doesn’t meet our personal version of what love is doesn’t change what it says at all it’s the same from beginning to end

“Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.”
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭12:13-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Us now saying “ that’s not love “ that’s not really gods grace ….. doesn’t and shouldn’t change our minds but accepting what it says is meant to change our minds and correct our thinking so we’ll repent

We don’t want to change is why we reject it though we want to enjoy serving sin still and then have a message that “ regardless we’ll be saved unconditionally “

But really it comes by accepting the things he taught rather than rejecting them

Once saved, always saved isn't the most popular position on salvation. Pentecostal christianity and charismatics, who mainly teach you can lose your salvation, are the most numerous.

But regarding the verses you put there, they must be compared with the likes of John 5:24, 6:40, 8:40, 10:28. Romans 5:8, Ephesians 2:8-9.

Doing good is the right response to having been given eternal life. That's what those verses are about. Eternal salvation isnt conditioned on the goodness, because actually, even after salvation, no one is truly 'good'.

You gotta distinguish discipline and correction from being sent to hell when you die.

 

[pinebeach]

Doing good is the right response to having been given eternal life. That's what those verses are about. Eternal salvation isnt conditioned on the goodness, because actually, even after salvation, no one is truly 'good'.

Jesus is not a slave master. God is not looking for ways to punish us. People should rejoice but it seems some enjoy looking for ways to put the screws in tighter and having decided that for themself, the next step is to get very religious with others and determine how to rub their face in their sin, tell them they are lost unless they understand it is now all about works and stop believing what
grace says it is all about.

Yes, that description may be a little crude, but when you consider it is God's words to His children they are messing with and playing around with and adding to, a person can get somewhat...shall we say...fed up with it?

We will most often see reams of scripture copy pasted to 'prove' how righteous they are.

And don't mention Pentecostals/Charismatics. If it weren't for the phony tongues I don't think they would have church.

And I am not a cessationist, but my family got very messed up after my mother started mixing it with the Pentecostals. She went a little off center and would not listen to anyone. You couldn't help her and sadly she died that way

 

[Freed18]

Blood and water flowed

So too does the Spirit of God.

 

[Freed18]

John 10:27-29 KJV
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: [28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. [29] My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Plenty of those sheep jump ship, unfortuneatly for them.

 

[Freed18]

What it really boils down to is that the sins you commit you don't consider as sins. That's why you think you're sinless, lol!

I know what is a sin, and I resist the temptation to commit them...and the devil flees. (James 4:7)

You don't actually believe the verses that show Christians still sin occasionally. Unbelief is a sin - and you committed it right in this thread!

There are no such verses.
As the fruit of any particular progenitor can only bring forth after itself, the only fruit brought forth from God's seed cannot be the fruit of the devil.

But you do you. Carry on in your delusion.

I believe the verses that say God's children obey their new Father.
Here are some of them...
“Be ye therefore perfect, even as you Father which is in heaven is perfect.” (Matt 5:48)

“I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me." (John 17:22-23)

“Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.” (Rom. 6:6-7)

"Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness." (Rom 6:18)

"But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life." (Rom 6:22)

"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Rom 8:1)

"Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)

"For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." (2 Cor 5:21)