That's why I also referred to the Anti-Christ as he/them. It could be a beast system. Whoever it is will end up trying to declare himself/themselves as God, which is why they get cut off and thrown into the Lake of Fire after the 7 years are over. As for the rapture, I've seen people point out scripture for every scenario and any of them could be possible, but I can definitely see the pretribulation making sense. At the very least, I see true believers as being sealed like the 144,000 and not harmed by the judgements that God/Jesus throws out on the earth during his time of wrath, since the Bible says in 1 Thessalonians 5:9 that the elect were not appointed for wrath.
Replacement theology? Yes or No.
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That's why I also referred to the Anti-Christ as he/them. It could be a beast system. Whoever it is will end up trying to declare himself/themselves as God, which is why they get cut off and thrown into the Lake of Fire after the 7 years are over. As for the rapture, I've seen people point out scripture for every scenario and any of them could be possible, but I can definitely see the pretribulation making sense. At the very least, I see true believers as being sealed like the 144,000 and not harmed by the judgements that God/Jesus throws out on the earth during his time of wrath, since the Bible says in 1 Thessalonians 5:9 that the elect were not appointed for wrath.
The first Christians were Jews.
Before the Church age began the disciples were all Jewish who were followers of Rabbi Jesus.
Funny thing was?
They later had to decide how to go about letting the Gentiles in.
Don’t count on anyone’s understanding in prophecy, it’s omitted in most ministries to avoid confusion, conflict and self discrediting, it’s not even taught in most seminaries, even though prophecies account for more than one third of the holy writ. And you think about it, what really makes the Bible true and trustworthy, what makes any claim true and trustworthy - theories, rules or prophecies?
Just to add this...
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
There is no longer Jew nor Gentile.
Just the same?
The very first Christians began with Jewish stock.
That is a good point.
That is also the reason why I think the "first fruits" in Christ are not chosen from future people.
They are risen from these first Jewish Christians, like perhaps the ones that "came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many" in Mathew 27:53, or even those who were marked with the seal of God before the destruction of Jerusalem.
I am referring to the 144,000 of course.
It is a bit like picking apples off a tree.
The first fruits ripen early and can be picked.
The other ones are still apples, not oats.
They are just not yet ripe.
Where I grew up the first fruits from the pear tree fell to the gound.
Had to grab them up before the bees got to them.
Correct just the same.
Only difference is for Jesus or against Jesus. Light and darkness
.
1 Thessalonians 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ
I am pretty sure that "wrath" here means damnation, as in the opposite of salvation.
We are not spared from trial and tribulation in this world, that's why we need to put on all that gear in v.8.
John 16:33 In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
If we need to pick a bad guy in that metaphor I would prefer to leave bees out of it.
What we need to look at is main motive and purpose of each war. If the purpose of the war is for God/Jesus to make Himself known, then I don't think we can look at it as a past event.
This is what I'm learning about the battle of Gog & Magog in Ezekiel 38:
The text draws a sharp distinction between the two:
God calls for the start of the war. He is the one who compels the invasion:
- "I will turn you around, put hooks in your jaws, and lead you out" (38:4)
- "I will bring you against my land" (38:16)
- "Behold, I am against you, O Gog" (38:3)
Gog calls for the plunder. The desire to loot is Gog's own:
- "Thoughts will come into your mind and you will devise an evil plan" (38:10)
- "I will go up... to take a spoil and to take a prey" (38:11-12)
The tension this creates:
God is the author of the event; Gog is the author of the motive. God uses Gog's greed as the instrument of His own purpose — "so that the nations may know Me when I am sanctified through you" (38:16). Gog thinks he's launching a raid for profit. In reality, he's walking into a divine trap. The plunder was never the point; God's holiness being revealed was the point. Gog's greed is the bait.
This is what makes the passage read so differently from a normal war narrative. The "aggressor" is actually the one being used, and the "defender" (Israel) is actually the audience — the nations watching to "know" God.
@Beekeeper, I guess I should include exactly how God/Jesus makes himself know to Israel through this war in Ezekiel:
In the Ezekiel 38–39 prophecy, God makes Himself known primarily through supernatural intervention to defend Israel against the invasion of Gog and Magog. The text emphasizes that God will magnify and sanctify Himself, ensuring that both Israel and the surrounding nations recognize His sovereignty and holiness.
God achieves this revelation through several specific actions:
- Direct Military Intervention: God fights the battle Himself, as Israel has no war implements. He destroys the invading armies using earthquakes, pestilence, bloodshed, torrential rains, great hailstones, fire, and brimstone (Ezekiel 38:22).
- Internal Disruption: He causes panic and confusion among the invading forces, leading them to turn on one another, demonstrating that the attack is under His control.
- Universal Recognition: The destruction of Gog’s massive coalition serves as a global spectacle. The explicit purpose is for "many nations" to witness this event and know that the Lord is God (Ezekiel 38:23).
- Sanctification of His Name: By delivering Israel from overwhelming odds, God proves His faithfulness and holiness, ensuring His name is not profaned anymore and is recognized as holy in the midst of His people (Ezekiel 39:7).
I am not convinced that Ez 38 and 39 covers one event only, but the purpose for God to make Himself known can be indeed be found throughout the 2 chapters.
Ezekiel 39:
21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.
22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the Lord their God from that day and forward.
23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.
25 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
28 Then shall they know that I am the Lord their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
I do not know why you think God would not intend to make Himself known in the second temple restoration.
The Israelites themselves were tempted to doubt their God during the captivity, while the victorious nations had opportunity to triumph in their false gods.
God's motivation to "bring again the captivity of Jacob" (v.25) is that he is jealous for His holy name.
Similarly God's motivation for punishing the heathen nations in v.21 was to set His glory among them.
If this all happened at the final judgement of the world the heathen would not have opportunity to "see my judgement that I have executed" (v.21)
We have been reading about real tribes of that time that really intended evil to Israel in that time, and God really restrained them.
They also used weapons of the past.
The Israelites relied on wood fires and did not have an excavator on hand to help with the burial duties.
The historical context of the Babylonian captivity, second temple restoration and the times that followed required God to glorify Himself to dispel the doubts that had arisen from Israel's former failure.
The narrative also closely matches the events of those times.
Correct just the same.
Only difference is for Jesus or against Jesus. Light and darkness
Correct just the same.
Only difference is for Jesus or against Jesus. Light and darkness
Jhn 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. Hmmmm
Exactly, Jesus answer him, truly truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.
Guess what, Jesus said that to a jew, no special treatment baby, get born again through Jesus precious blood, the only way.
Abraham s blood not going to save anyone. Quit worshipping human blood.
Be like nickadamius, Mark, Peter, James, paul.....
Absolutely thank you Jesus......now can you show me in the old testament where it says you must be born again?
Being born again has always been the way for salvation.
When Jesus told Nicodemus he needed to be born again?
Jesus was a rabbi teaching a Jew, according to Jewish thinking.
"Born again" was said it while it was still in the Jewish age.
The Church age did not begin until Pentecost, only after the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
What Jesus was telling Nicodemus, a Jew?
It pertained to Jewish thinking as well.
OT regeneration was receiving a quickened human spirit to make the one believing able to perceive and comprehend the things of God. Many today think being born again means receiving the Holy Spirit.
Being born again means entering into regeneration.
Receiving the Holy Spirit is what takes place today when someone is born again during the Church age.
When Jesus was teaching Nicodemus? Not once did Jesus mention getting the indwelling Holy Spirit.
Rather, Jesus only spoke in terms of the Holy Spirit begetting for us a human spirit.
For all OT believers had a human spirit.
All were born again (made by God to become regenerated).
Slaves were valuable in those days, and the tribes traded in them.
Israel also had wealth before the captivity, and the prophesies of Ez 38 and 39 are directed to the Babylonian nations too.
The theme is God establishing His name through victory over the hostile heathen nations, and it does not assume that it all happens as one event in time.
The book of Esther tells a story of God's protection of the Israelites under the reign of a Persian king.
During the early time of the second temple restoration there were no walls, and for whatever it had, Jerusalem appeared to be easy prey.
Without the protective hand of God it could never have survived the greedy tribes that come from all sides.
The prophesy names tribes of the time that lived in every direction of the compass from Jerusalem, but is directed towards the chief prince of the northern empire where Tubal, Meshech and the children of Magog resided.
So which chief prince of that particular empire is the one that decided to attack Jerusalem?
That would have to be the one who is much prophesied about in Daniel.
The most ignored Biblical villain of all, Antiochus IV Epiphanes.