I don't believe you followed the discussion well. Another poster said Paul both advocated for works of the law and did not at the same time.
OSAS, When does salvation take place?
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What is my position? what is the argument you think I am trying to make?
1. in a true translation the word is translated 'He/him' as the greek word is O'ho which is a pronoun or definate article . Let's look 'into' the greek:
ὁ ho, ho; the definite article; the (sometimes to be supplied, at others omitted, in English idiom):—the, this, that, one, he, she, it, etc.
The words the, this, that, one, he, she, and it belong to different parts of speech depending on how they are used in a sentence, primarily acting as [Articles/Determiners, Pronouns], or [Demonstratives]. [1, 2, 3]
- The: [Definite Article] (a specific type of determiner that modifies a noun).
- This and That: [Demonstrative Determiners] (when placed before a noun, like "this book") or [Demonstrative Pronouns] (when standing alone, like "this is good").
- One: [Indefinite Pronoun] (when replacing a noun, like "I want that one") [Number], or [Determiner].
- He, She, and It: [Personal Pronouns] (specifically subject pronouns that replace nouns)
G3588 - ho - Strong's Greek Lexicon (KJV)
G3588 - ὁ ho, ho; the definite article; the (sometimes to be supplied, at others omitted, in English idiom):—the, this, that, one, he, she, it, etc.
www.blueletterbible.org
So, no, in the strictest sense translating "O'ho" can not be translated into the word into, as it is being used as a pronoun, and a stronger translation would be the word "He/Him." Which is probably why the NIV translated this word in the passage into the word 'Him.'
24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.
So the command is not to believe in Jesus, but rather to believe in God (Him) who has sent Jesus. Because contextually Jesus primary purpose in this passage is not to describe a path to eternal life, but to bring the idea that Jesus is in direct contact with the Father and that He and the Father share the same thoughts and ideas concerning His worship.
I say all of this to point out that salvation takes more than simple belief/acknowledgement in Jesus.
None of which where possible without intervention of the Holy Spirit. Or do you think preaching in His NAME, and performing MANY Miracles happens without the endorsement/support of the Holy Spirit?
No, They believed Jesus would save them. That is why they Cried out to Him Lord, Lord!
Linguistic and Cultural Meaning
- Master and Authority: The Greek word for Lord (kyrios) means master, owner, or ruler. Calling someone "Lord" acknowledges their supreme authority over your life.
- The Double Vocative: Repeating the word ("Lord, Lord") shows deep emotion, urgency, or intense appeal, much like someone pleading for entry or recognition at the final judgment.
- Divine Echo: Some scholars note that repeating a title twice mirrors Old Testament forms of address to God (like Adonai YHWH), subtly pointing to Jesus' divine identity. [1, 2, 3, 4]
- Biblelingustics.com
So you agree with what I said, it takes more than simple belief in the existence of Jesus.
Now the question becomes can you have a relationship with God you need to enter heaven with out the 'work' of Loving God with all of your ability to do so and loving your neighbor as yourself?
The text doesn't say that. You're bringing your beliefs to the text instead of letting scripture inform your beliefs.
Good morning C.
I don't know of anything that I could be doing to honor or love God more than what I am doing right now.
Though no longer dead in past sins, I must remain alive in Christ until the day of judgement, to be found in the book of life
Do you feel the Holy Ghost will allow something that your conscience wouldn't ?
You couldn't be worshipping or praying or studying or looking for ways to serve Him better? There is nothing more you can do to redeem the time?
And good morning.
Hypocrisy..."the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense:" (dict.)
Your question is too broad to give a yes or no answer.
If one promotes a type of behavior, but doesn't conform to that type of behavior, it is not a lie.
But if one says they abide by that behavior, but doesn't really live it...he is a liar.
I have already accomplished my worship and prayer time this morning, so I moved on to the next way to please Him.
I have studied theses Scriptures for over 65 years. And as always, you like others refuse to answer the questions I asked. Does not surprise me.
I have never had anyone who believes salvation can be lost admit they have lost their salvation nor have they been able to tell me what particular sin brings that loss.
You keep depending on yourself to keep you saved if you wish.
My trust and faith is in Christ only.
No the text literally "says" That these men referenced preaching in His NAME, and performing MANY Miracles, which included casting out demons.
We are given a picture of what this job of casting out demons included and faith in Christ/having to use Christ's name was a big part of that:
Acts 19:13-16
13 Some Jews who went around driving out evil spirits tried to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those who were demon-possessed. They would say, “In the name of the Jesus whom Paul preaches, I command you to come out.” 14 Seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this. 15 One day the evil spirit answered them, “Jesus I know, and Paul I know about, but who are you?” 16 Then the man who had the evil spirit jumped on them and overpowered them all. He gave them such a beating that they ran out of the house naked and bleeding.How many miracles do you think they could do without belief in Jesus?
This doesn't really answer my question. Even as you worshipped and prayed, was there within your worship and prayer anywhere you could have improved upon it and redeemed the time more fully?
How many miracles that Moses performed were duplicated by Pharoah's magicians? Were they employing the power of God?
John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
Carful..
The pharisees also accused Jesus of casting out demons using the power of Satan, and Jesus told them doing so they had committed the unforgivable sin.
Mat 12:
22 Then they brought him a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute, and Jesus healed him, so that he could both talk and see. 23 All the people were astonished and said, “Could this be the Son of David?”
24 But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, “It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons.”
25 Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? 27 And if I drive out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. 28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
Here in mat 7. Jesus did not say their works where illegitimate, only that they where not in the will of the Father in what they had done..
In Luke 11 Jesus sums up the will of the Father by Saying we must Love God with all of our ability to do so, and to love our neighbor as ourselves. Meaning the sin these men committed was they broke the two greatest commands. So they may have legitly had the faith they needed to allow the Holy Spirit to work in them (Like Judas) But did not Love God or their fellow man as they should have.
Amen! That is where my trust and faith is, not in myself.John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
In Matthew 7:22-23, we read - Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you who practice lawlessness!'
Jesus never knew these many people which means they were never saved. Jesus did not honor their claims in verse 22. In context, Jesus warns about false prophets (Matthew 7:15-23) which puts things into perspective.