Obedience REQUIRED

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The reformers falsely claim those who turn away from their sin are doing to to try and earn their salvation.
They believe they can never ever cease from sin, and as such they try to get everyone to walk in sin with them.


Oh, okay! If it makes you feel better, God knows who obeys Him and resists sin through the Holy Spirit. Their accusations don't impact the obedient Christians' salvation.


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There's no debate about this for those who actually believe all of what the Lord says in His Word.
If you are going to attack what I say, WRITE OUT ALL I SAID, and not just a piece of it.
The debate is whether the biblical warnings describe genuine believers losing salvation or people who were never truly saved in the first place. That's what I said. I don't mind debating issues with folks, But if you start twisting and cutting what ppl say. You are not worth replying to.
 
I knew that before you did. What you are apparently unaware of is the fact that God created man in His own image, meaning man not only has free will like God does, but man also reaps what he sows like God does - Gal 6

If man chooses to turn away from the Lord after having been born again, the Lord must let them go because He cannot violate man's free will since He is the One Who decided to give man free will in the first place.

Romans 6:16 - Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

John 15:2 - Every branch in Me that beareth not fruit He taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, He purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

1 Timothy 4:1,2 - Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron

Ezekiel 33:12-13 - Therefore, son of man, say to your people, ‘If someone who is righteous disobeys, that person’s former righteousness will count for nothing. And if someone who is wicked repents, that person’s former wickedness will not bring condemnation. The righteous person who sins will not be allowed to live even though they were formerly righteous.
By your post you actually confirm that you do not comprehend Jesus Christ is THE Savior.
 
There is one thing beteen those extremes...Christ in me, the hope of Glory.
Christ through me, does the maintaining.
Without Christ, I would be just as evil as I was before my rebirth from my Father's seed.

That would be the Christ side, not in-between, and with which, I agree.
 
What's actually amazing is how so many don't know the Lord has called them to stop living in agreement with the devil and called them to instead to live in agreement with the Lord (Acts 26:18). They don't know the Lord very well is their problem and they don't love Him enough to stop walking after the flesh in agreement with the devil.

Romans 8:6 - to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace

Carnal minded = living in agreement with the devil.
Spirit minded = living in agreement with the Lord.

Ephesians 2:10 - For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

The Lord has literally ORDAINED His people to walk in good works and has provided access to the Holy Spirit and His Word to empower His people to do so. They have no excuse.

Romans 8:13 - if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit put to death the deeds of the body, ye shall live
I have never suggested that a saved person is not to obey our Lord.
I strive to do so each day. Many times I fail. When I do I ask for forgiveness and I am thankful God will forgive and not cast me away.
But you are saying a saved person must be obedient, not sin , to keep himself saved.
That is works for salvatiom.
If you believe you live without sin, you are more confused than I thought.
Every time you say a saved person must be obedient to keep his salvation, you sin.
 
I have never suggested that a saved person is not to obey our Lord.
I strive to do so each day. Many times I fail. When I do I ask for forgiveness and I am thankful God will forgive and not cast me away.
But you are saying a saved person must be obedient, not sin , to keep himself saved.
That is works for salvatiom.
If you believe you live without sin, you are more confused than I thought.
Every time you say a saved person must be obedient to keep his salvation, you sin.
Balderdash.
So what if it "works" salvation, as long as it isn't the works of the Law for salvation, it doesn't matter.
Life is work, in case you haven't noticed.
Life in Christ is even more work; from resisting temptation and being merciful to the needy, to prayer and worship, its all labor !
Thankfully though, with Christ in us, the load is a light one.
 
I have never suggested that a saved person is not to obey our Lord.
I strive to do so each day. Many times I fail. When I do I ask for forgiveness and I am thankful God will forgive and not cast me away.
But you are saying a saved person must be obedient, not sin , to keep himself saved.
That is works for salvatiom.
If you believe you live without sin, you are more confused than I thought.
Every time you say a saved person must be obedient to keep his salvation, you sin.
1 John 1:8 - If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 🚩
 
What if they're NOT earning their salvation but are already saved and just obeying God and resisting sin because the Holy Spirit has been causing them to do those things?

You can't accuse ALL who obey God and resist sin as working for their salvation. It may actually be the Holy Spirit doing His work in changing that person to Christlikeness.


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The only way I or anybody can obey is because of the Holy Spirit living with my spirit and I submit to His leadership. That is not working to be saved or keep myself saved, that is because I am saved.
But surely you do not believe you never fail.
If a person is trying to be obedient to be saved or to keep his salvation, he is being deceived by Satan.
Jesus is the only person that lived without sin.
 
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Balderdash.
So what if it "works" salvation, as long as it isn't the works of the Law for salvation, it doesn't matter.
Life is work, in case you haven't noticed.
Life in Christ is even more work; from resisting temptation and being merciful to the needy, to prayer and worship, its all labor !
Thankfully though, with Christ in us, the load is a light one.
The question is, Why are you doing those works?
Is it for salvation or because you love the one who died for your sins?
 
The only way I or anybody can obey is because of the Holy Spirit living with my spirit and I submit to His leadership. That is not working to be saved or keep myself saved, that is because I am saved.
But surely you do not believe you never fail.
If a person is trying to be obedient to be saved or to keep his salvation, he is being deceived by Satan.
Jesus is the only person that lived without sin.
For one to believe they are entirely free of sin 24/7 (have no sin/have not sinned -1 John 1:8-10) blinds them to reality and confirms that the truth/His word is not in them.
 
Do you agree with me then on the fact that it is those without Christ in the that commit the sins ?

Freed18, everyone in the flesh commits sin. But where there is no law, there is no transgression, and sin is not imputed. Look at Romans 5:13, which states clearly that "sin is not imputed when there is no law." Further, Romans 4:15 says, "for where no law is, there is no transgression". Christ has removed His spiritual family from being under that jurisdiction; their sins will never be counted to their account - they have been fully justified by Christ. They are not by judged their actions but by Christ's and that is what makes Christ alone THE Savior and not them.
 
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The question is, Why are you doing those works?
Is it for salvation or because you love the one who died for your sins?
I do them because my Father's seed only brings forth good fruit.
And I do them so I will find my name in the book of life on the day of judgement.
 
Freed18, everyone in the flesh commits sin. But where there is no law, there is no transgression, and sin is not imputed. Look at Romans 5:13, which states clearly that "sin is not imputed when there is no law." Further, Romans 4:15 says, "for where no law is, there is no transgression". Christ has removed His spiritual family from being under that jurisdiction; their sins will never be counted to their account - they have been fully justified by Christ. They are not by judged their actions but by Christ's and that is what makes Christ alone THE Savior and not them.
There is no Christian who walks in the "flesh".
We all walk in the Spirit, the light-God, in whom is no sin-darkness.
First of all, which "flesh" do you refer to ?
Skin and bones, flesh ?
Or a worldly oriented mind, "flesh" ?
Skin and bones cannot make anybody commit sin.
But the worldy oriented mind sure can.

Second of all, who is the Law for ?
Doesn't Paul say it is for "the disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;" (1 Tim 1:9-10) ?
If a man is doing those things, he is still under the Law.
Paul also writes..."Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. (Gal 5:19-21)
Folks doing the works of "flesh" shall not inherit the kingdom of God; no matter what they label themselves.