Was sex Adam and Eve part of the curse

[Lovette]

I didn't realize you were a moderator here.

never did i intend to be.

 

[JesusLives]

JesusLives said:
Of course if you are single you should keep yourself for marriage. You will get no argument about that here. But it is perfectly o.k. for a married couple to have sex together if they so want to do so.

Lovette's Reply: Then that's their own business, not mine or yours.

I just find it sad that some people are a tad prudish about sex or think it is only for population growth especially when it was given by God as a command to be fruitful and multiply. He did this so married couples could bond and have loving relationships growing families together in a family atmosphere teaching the children to learn to love God as the parents do.

There is nothing taboo about it and is o.k. to be enjoyed in a marriage. God is love and he wants us to share it with the world his love for all mankind enough to send his son to die for all of our sins and get us back into a relationship with him.

 

[Burn1986]

Is Lovette a moderator?

 

[tourist]

Is Lovette a moderator?

No, he is not.

 

[CS1]

In Gen 1:28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

This command was before the fall, yet they didn’t have sex until after the fall.

nothing states they did not have sexual relations before the fall. It says that at the specific time of knowing Eve she became pregnant.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

If you're so enthusiastic about marriage, go somewhere else.

Another attempt to censor what you no authority to censor.

This is not what the OP intended to discuss.

You introduced the topic of marriage in Post 50.

Beginning in Post 57, I have been responding to and correcting your erroneous claims concerning marriage.

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The only solid godly marriage is between God's only son and his church. And human marriage is corruptible on the other hand.

According to Scripture, marriage is honorable. That you hold marriage in the abysmal state you do is error.



reneweddaybyday said:

The relationship between a husband and a wife is a shadow ... an adumbration ... just as the tabernacle in the wilderness was a shadow of the heavenly Holy of Holies (Hebrews 8:5).​

Why do you live in the shadow when you're already in the light?

Do you know what "adumbration" means? It means to foreshadow something ... marriage is a foreshadowing ... a reflection ... of the "great mystery concerning Christ and the church" (Ephesians 5:32).

In a godly marriage, both husband and wife live in the light together and bear witness to the greater truth concerning the Lord Jesus Christ and the church.

Do you believe the tabernacle in the wilderness was unnecessary or unneeded because the tabernacle was only a foreshadow of the heavenly Holy of Holies?


Lovette said:

you have to seek validation from a husband, and you couldn't shut up about it.​

reneweddaybyday said:

clearing up your erroneous statements does not equal my doing what you claim.​

Do you have a relationship with the Lord, and is it sufficient for you?

The wife does not "have to seek validation from a husband" nor does the husband "have to seek validation from" a wife in order to have a vibrant, vital relationship with the Lord.

That is one of your erroneous beliefs which is being corrected.



reneweddaybyday said:

My relationship with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is well tended to, Lovette. And, believe it or not, my husband had a very fine, strong relationship with the Lord ... even while gasp married!!!​

Lovette said:

He shed his precious blood to wash away my sins, I don't need a virgin's precious blood added on to that.​

reneweddaybyday said:

You did so well on the first part ... then couldn't control yourself and had to add your barb ... feel better now?​

Thank you for your concern, I'm fine.

Still can't control yourself, can you? For someone who believes himself of being capable of exercising self-control, perhaps you could exercise self-control in responding to others? After all, "a mature believer should be able to subdue" carnal reactions. Or maybe you just let loose because of the autonomy of an online forum ... so it's okay???



reneweddaybyday said:

You were talking about what the Lord Jesus Christ said ... not what Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 7.​

Is that in 1 Cor. 7 or not?

Getting back to your statement:

Lovette said:​

Lord Jesus Christ did claim two things - no divorce under any circumstance; singleness is an acceptable fate, marriage is not for everyone.​

reneweddaybyday said:​

disagree concerning "no divorce under any circumstance".​

​

agree concerning singleness.​

​

agree concerning marriage is not for everyone.​

When the Lord Jesus Christ told the pharisees that Moses allowed for divorce, He specifically pointed out divorce was "because of the hardness of your hearts".

When both husband and wife have been given a new heart when born again, it is totally possible for both husband and wife to live together without the "hardness of heart".



reneweddaybyday said:

My comment spoke directly to your erroneous claim that being married was some kind of bondage​

Paul's comment says it is. "Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be loosed. Are you loosed from a wife? Do not seek a wife. "

I know you want Scripture to portray marriage as being in some sort of prison and if that is what believe, you are in error.

1 Corinthians 7:27 refers to a binding union due to the voluntary covenant entered into between husband and wife.

Prison binding is an involuntary, external force of captivity against a person's will which results in oppression, fear, and forced subjugation without a person's consent.

Covenant binding is a voluntary pledge of loyalty entered into by mutual consent. Husband and wife are united in a cooperative relationship which results in mutual trust and devotion to one another.

I hope and pray you will learn the difference between your "worldly institution" view of marriage and the marriage relationship ordained by God.


reneweddaybyday said:

Acts 5:29​

Good, therefore I obey God rather than this godless government. You marr,y you submit to the government which issues your marriage certificate. You can't have it both ways.

When the laws established by the government do not conflict with God's Word, yes, one does "have it both ways".

Do you drive a car, Lovette? If you do not drive, do you have a government issued form of identification? If so, you "have it both ways" because a born again one has his or her citizenship which is in heaven and the citizenship on earth.

Adhering to protocol established on earth is in alignment with what is written in God's Word because He says "Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake" (1 Peter 2:13-17).


reneweddaybyday said:

That you refuse to believe what I have told you does not equal me "speaking of a false idol".​

I'll believe you when marriage is no longer certified by the government. Again, You can't have it both ways.

1 Peter 2:13-17

13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;

14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.

17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

reneweddaybyday said:

true and also true "if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned".​

“A certain man gave a great supper and invited many, and sent his servant at supper time to say to those who were invited, ‘Come, for all things are now ready.’ 18 But they all with one accord began to make excuses. The first said to him, ‘I have bought a piece of ground, and I must go and see it. I ask you to have me excused.’ And another said, ‘I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I am going to test them. I ask you to have me excused.’ Still another said, ‘I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.’

Yeah, that sounds like more of your "worldly institution" view of marriages.

For all the times you have said you're talking about the "worldly institution" of marriage, I have responded that I am not speaking of your "worldly institution" of marriage.

You claim to be spiritual, but you continue to look to the world to try to understand a spiritual reality. You really need to let go of your pride when it comes to understanding what it is God wants you to know concerning marriage. You may remain ignorant if that is what you choose to do, but do not expect me (or others) to refrain from correcting you when you spout your error.


reneweddaybyday said:

Not true that once a person is born again, he or she betrays the Lord if he or she gets married.​

​

Nor is it true that a believer is saying "the Lord is not enough, you need another to satisfy you; His grace is not sufficient, you need other's validation" if and when the believer marries.​

Why not? Is a believer a member of the church or not? Is the church the bride of Christ or not? You're born again, you're bride of Christ, you're bound to him, anybody else is a distraction. "And this I say for your own profit, not that I may put a leash on you, but for what is proper, and that you may serve the Lord without distraction." 1 Cor. 7:35

Both husband and wife can be bound to Christ, and be married, and serve the Lord without distraction.

Do you really expect me to believe that there are married couples sitting in your church and not one of them is committed to the Lord Jesus Christ???


reneweddaybyday said:

It is not a sin to marry.​

It is a trouble in the flesh to bear.

The word "trouble" in 1 Corinthians 7:28 is translated from the Greek word thlipsis which means pressure.

Do you know, Lovette, that we serve a God Who promises that nothing shall separate us from the love of Christ and that includes "tribulation" (Greek = thlipsis) (Romans 8:35-39)? ... and that God comforts us in all our tribulations (Greek = thlipsis) so that we may be able to comfort others who are in any trouble (Greek = thlipsis) (2 Corinthians 1:4)?

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

reneweddaybyday said:

the marriages are not fraudulent ... and I know for a fact that when both husband and wife are committed to God, that marriage is far, far superior (spiritually speaking) than if husband and wife are not committed to God.​

That's your hubris. And snobbery.

nope ... I know from personal experience because my husband and I were already in relationship when his cousin witnessed to us and brought us to the Lord Jesus Christ.

Are you born again, Lovette? If so, then you know the change that occurs in a person's life.


reneweddaybyday said:

1 Corinthians 7:37-38 refer to a father who has a daughter ...​

Yeah, so a woman just a piece of property to be traded at her father's will? Which century are you living in, medieval?

What are you going on about? In our day and time, kids live with their parents after they reach adulthood and you call that "medieval"? Our daughter lived at home until she was married. Our oldest son lived at home until he was married. That is not a "medieval" practice, Lovette.


reneweddaybyday said:

Nope, I'm still talking about the marriage relationship established by God ... which you deny. You are so dead set against marriage that you cannot even submit to the truth of God's Word concerning the relationship He established. Is marriage for everyone? No. Can marriage be a blessing to both spouses? Yes.​

Lovette said:

There's no promise of a "spouse" from God in the first place.​

reneweddaybyday said:

so? That does not change the fact that marriage can be a blessing to both spouses.​

How can there be "both spouses" when there's not one spouse to start with?

sigh … we're speaking of marriage, Lovette. If there is a marriage, there are two spouses. I guess you haven't ferreted that out yet have you, Sherlock?


Lovette said:

I ask you again, if you never had the opportunity to meet anybody, while everybody else around you seem to have their luck, would you still worship God?​

reneweddaybyday said:

yes.​

Liar.

I am not married now and I worship God. My husband worshipped God while he was alive. I worshipped God while he was alive. We also gasp worshipped God together.


reneweddaybyday said:

I worship God because I love Him.​

Liar.

Nope.


reneweddaybyday said:

What the world does has no effect on the truth of God's Word.​

​

That you view what the world does as having some sort of effect concerning truth does not change truth into what the world considers true.​

You get married, you get involved in what the world considers true.

A person does not have to be married to "get involved in what the world considers true". Your view of marriage is a prime example ... your view is wholly from a world standpoint as you have pointed out more than several times.

Again, I'll believe you when marriage is no longer certified by the government.

You don't believe now, even though you have been shown from God's Word ... you hold the world in higher esteem than God's Word.

Trying to explain to you the marriage relationship established by God is like trying to explain to an unbeliever that peace with God is not the same as cessation of conflict in the world. The believer is afforded peace through the Lord Jesus Christ in the midst of conflict.


reneweddaybyday said:

what sadducees? The sadducees were not with Jesus when his disciples asked Him "when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"​

They worship marriage as much as you do, they ridiculed Jesus with their hypothesis on marriage, which miserably failed.

We weren't talking about the sadducees. We were talking about the Olivet Discourse. You keep bringing the sadducees into the Olivet Discourse, but the sadduccees were not there. Jesus was answering questions asked of him by His disciples (Matthew 24:3 “And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? And what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?”

The disciples came to Jesus privately ... there were no sadducees, pharisees, chief priests, scribes, elders involved in the discussion.

And, I again clarify ... I do not worship marriage, I worship God Who established the marriage relationship.

As for the Olivert Discourse, indulgence in marriage is a sign of negligence on the Lord's coming. Eating and drinking only refer to excessive eating and drinking to the extent of inebriety, not normal food and water consumption in moderate portion.

Nope. The mention of "eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage" refers to the every day goings on in life. Jesus would have used terms such as gluttony and drunkenness if He had meant "excessive eating and drinking".


reneweddaybyday said:

you are grasping at straws in your feeble attempt to support your erroneous claims.​

The only erroneous claim is your idolatry of marriage.

Glad you acknowledge your claim is erroneous.

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

reneweddaybyday said:

It is not a sin to marry.​

It is a folly to marry.

Correction ... it would be a folly for you to marry unless and until you learn from God's Word the truth concerning marriage.

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

God's original design for marriage is arranged. Adam didn't ask for a wife, it was God who determined that it wasn't good for him to be alone; it was God who made an Eve out of his own body; it was God who joined them together.

These don't exist any more. If you have an authority who makes an edict for you to marry, who pairs you up with a mate, and brings this mate to you, you can call that a godly marriage. I didn't make any of these up, it's all in Gen. 2, right?

Here are the verses where it is stated the man shall leave father and mother, cleave to his wife, and they shall be one:

Genesis 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Matthew 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

Mark 10:7-8 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined to unto his wife; And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.

Ephesians 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

There is no indication in any of the verses (including Genesis 2:24) that God would do as you claim He did for Adam.

But how does it work in reality, since the 20th century? YOU feel not good being alone; YOU seeks out a mate to your own liking; YOU bring yourself to them. And you call that godly marriage, even though every step of the way is the direct opposite of God's original design.

I'm not sure that everyone who is married began the relationship because they "feel not good being alone" so they "seeks out a mate".

Sometimes a person meets another, they start talking, they get to know each other, they date, then start thinking about marrying.

.

 

[Lovette]

Another attempt to censor what you no authority to censor.



You introduced the topic of marriage in Post 50.

Beginning in Post 57, I have been responding to and correcting your erroneous claims concerning marriage.

.

Go debate with the LGBTQ lobby and all proponents of “gay” marriage. They’re against God’s design of marriage, not me.

 

[Burn1986]

Go debate with the LGBTQ lobby and all proponents of “gay” marriage. They’re against God’s design of marriage, not me.

Look yall, the marriage act is an example of the ark of the covenant. In the midst of the curses, husband and wife butting heads, and life’s pressures, they receive healing spiritually emotionally and physically when they come together intimately.

Similarly when the cherubim are facing each other with wings outstretched and heads down, the holy presence is generated in the space below them. So in marriage, this act is a symbol of. Worship and spiritual release where God inhabits.

When I started this thread I wasn’t seeing this until after I listened to some sermons and let God reveal to me this picture.

 

[Lovette]

According to Scripture, marriage is honorable. That you hold marriage in the abysmal state you do is error.

According to scripture, earthly marriage is a mere shadow of the eternal heavenly marriage with Jesus, idolizing earthly marriage is the real error.

reneweddaybyday said:

The relationship between a husband and a wife is a shadow ... an adumbration ... just as the tabernacle in the wilderness was a shadow of the heavenly Holy of Holies (Hebrews 8:5).​

Do you know what "adumbration" means? It means to foreshadow something ... marriage is a foreshadowing ... a reflection ... of the "great mystery concerning Christ and the church" (Ephesians 5:32).

In a godly marriage, both husband and wife live in the light together and bear witness to the greater truth concerning the Lord Jesus Christ and the church.

Do you believe the tabernacle in the wilderness was unnecessary or unneeded because the tabernacle was only a foreshadow of the heavenly Holy of Holies?

Do you believe is it still necessary to rebuild the tabernacle and worship god in it despite Jesus’s teaching of worshiping in spirit and truth.

Lovette said:

you have to seek validation from a husband, and you couldn't shut up about it.​

reneweddaybyday said:

clearing up your erroneous statements does not equal my doing what you claim.​

The wife does not "have to seek validation from a husband" nor does the husband "have to seek validation from" a wife in order to have a vibrant, vital relationship with the Lord.

That is one of your erroneous beliefs which is being corrected.

Why getting married in the first place?

reneweddaybyday said:

My relationship with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is well tended to, Lovette. And, believe it or not, my husband had a very fine, strong relationship with the Lord ... even while gasp married!!!​

Lovette said:

He shed his precious blood to wash away my sins, I don't need a virgin's precious blood added on to that.​

reneweddaybyday said:

You did so well on the first part ... then couldn't control yourself and had to add your barb ... feel better now?​

Still can't control yourself, can you? For someone who believes himself of being capable of exercising self-control, perhaps you could exercise self-control in responding to others? After all, "a mature believer should be able to subdue" carnal reactions. Or maybe you just let loose because of the autonomy of an online forum ... so it's okay???

Ask yourself. This is a public forum, and your idolatry of marriage is reproachable.

reneweddaybyday said:

You were talking about what the Lord Jesus Christ said ... not what Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 7.​

Getting back to your statement:

Lovette said:​

Lord Jesus Christ did claim two things - no divorce under any circumstance; singleness is an acceptable fate, marriage is not for everyone.​

reneweddaybyday said:​

disagree concerning "no divorce under any circumstance".​

​

agree concerning singleness.​

​

agree concerning marriage is not for everyone.​

When the Lord Jesus Christ told the pharisees that Moses allowed for divorce, He specifically pointed out divorce was "because of the hardness of your hearts".

When both husband and wife have been given a new heart when born again, it is totally possible for both husband and wife to live together without the "hardness of heart".

Equally possible of false advertising for two people who shouldn’t be married in the first place.

reneweddaybyday said:

My comment spoke directly to your erroneous claim that being married was some kind of bondage​

I know you want Scripture to portray marriage as being in some sort of prison and if that is what believe, you are in error.

1 Corinthians 7:27 refers to a binding union due to the voluntary covenant entered into between husband and wife.

Prison binding is an involuntary, external force of captivity against a person's will which results in oppression, fear, and forced subjugation without a person's consent.

Covenant binding is a voluntary pledge of loyalty entered into by mutual consent. Husband and wife are united in a cooperative relationship which results in mutual trust and devotion to one another.

I hope and pray you will learn the difference between your "worldly institution" view of marriage and the marriage relationship ordained by God.

How did you get married in the first place? Speaking of marriage as God’s design, he made Eve for Adam and joined them into a couple. Is your marriage arranged? Or the result of your own prerogative? Don’t call it godly Union when it’s made in a worldly way.

reneweddaybyday said:

Acts 5:29​

When the laws established by the government do not conflict with God's Word, yes, one does "have it both ways".

Do you drive a car, Lovette? If you do not drive, do you have a government issued form of identification? If so, you "have it both ways" because a born again one has his or her citizenship which is in heaven and the citizenship on earth.

Adhering to protocol established on earth is in alignment with what is written in God's Word because He says "Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake" (1 Peter 2:13-17).


reneweddaybyday said:

That you refuse to believe what I have told you does not equal me "speaking of a false idol".​

1 Peter 2:13-17

13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;

14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.

17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.

.

Except the government’s law does conflict with God’s word. Since when did God sanctify same sex marriage?

 

[Lovette]

Look yall, the marriage act is an example of the ark of the covenant. In the midst of the curses, husband and wife butting heads, and life’s pressures, they receive healing spiritually emotionally and physically when they come together intimately.

Similarly when the cherubim are facing each other with wings outstretched and heads down, the holy presence is generated in the space below them. So in marriage, this act is a symbol of. Worship and spiritual release where God inhabits.

When I started this thread I wasn’t seeing this until after I listened to some sermons and let God reveal to me this picture.

Except marriage is not for everyone, there’s not an Adam for every Eve and not an Eve for every Adam.

 

[Burn1986]

Except marriage is not for everyone, there’s not an Adam for every Eve and not an Eve for every Adam.

That’s true. But for those that are maybe this gives some insight.

 

[Burn1986]

Except marriage is not for everyone, there’s not an Adam for every Eve and not an Eve for every Adam.

Also, I think you would agree there is a spiritual relationship between the believer and Jesus that mirrors the marriage act. After we’re saved, and we enter into prayer, there is a progression that leads to release in prayer.

 

[Lovette]

That’s true. But for those that are maybe this gives some insight.

Thanks, but comparison is the thief of joy, envy is a deadly sin.

 

[Lovette]

Also, I think you would agree there is a spiritual relationship between the believer and Jesus that mirrors the marriage act. After we’re saved, and we enter into prayer, there is a progression that leads to release in prayer.

sex is essential in the marriage act, does that mirror the relationship with Jesus? What he taught is the opposite, there’s no marriage in resurrection when we’re in eternal Union with him.

 

[Lovette]

reneweddaybyday said:

true and also true "if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned".​

Yeah, that sounds like more of your "worldly institution" view of marriages.

For all the times you have said you're talking about the "worldly institution" of marriage, I have responded that I am not speaking of your "worldly institution" of marriage.

You claim to be spiritual, but you continue to look to the world to try to understand a spiritual reality. You really need to let go of your pride when it comes to understanding what it is God wants you to know concerning marriage. You may remain ignorant if that is what you choose to do, but do not expect me (or others) to refrain from correcting you when you spout your error.

Whatever you claim to be “spiritual” is a delusion to make the worldly institution more palatable. You have no valid argument, you’ve just resorted to ad hominem and the emperor’s new clothes.

reneweddaybyday said:

Not true that once a person is born again, he or she betrays the Lord if he or she gets married.​

​

Nor is it true that a believer is saying "the Lord is not enough, you need another to satisfy you; His grace is not sufficient, you need other's validation" if and when the believer marries.​

Both husband and wife can be bound to Christ, and be married, and serve the Lord without distraction.

Do you really expect me to believe that there are married couples sitting in your church and not one of them is committed to the Lord Jesus Christ???

I expect you to accept that married stay married, singles stay single. Do not promote earthly marriage in the house of God.

reneweddaybyday said:

It is not a sin to marry.​

The word "trouble" in 1 Corinthians 7:28 is translated from the Greek word thlipsis which means pressure.

Do you know, Lovette, that we serve a God Who promises that nothing shall separate us from the love of Christ and that includes "tribulation" (Greek = thlipsis) (Romans 8:35-39)? ... and that God comforts us in all our tribulations (Greek = thlipsis) so that we may be able to comfort others who are in any trouble (Greek = thlipsis) (2 Corinthians 1:4)?

.

Yeah, nothing except a false idol like romantic worldly marriage, which was a 20th century phenomenon.