Is Knowledge of the Original Languages Necessary for KJV Believers?

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No, we are staying within the context of the passage.
Who is "we"? I am hoping that is a typo unless you are claiming there is more than one person who is writing this post here.

Gal 6:6 does not say believe in. It says Abraham Believed God. There is a difference in believing in the Lord and believing the Lord. Do you not see there is a difference? Better yet why is there a difference?

Verse 6 starts with the phrase "even as"
This means as you know that what is about to be said is a direct comparison to what was just said.
Verses 2-3 says we received the Spirit and worketh miracles through the hearing, listening to faith. This faith is the faith of Christ that we now live by. As Gal 2:20 says, we are dead but alive. But it is not us that lives but Christ Jesus in us and the life we now live in the flesh we live by the FAITH OF the Son of God that died for us. This is the faith that we are to hear. This is the faith that believes from the heart even as Abraham believed God in all that He said for him to believe and do.


Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Gal 3:4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
Gal 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Did Abraham believe the promise of God in that His descendants would be like the stars?
Does Scripture say that this belief was accounted to him for righteousness?
Does Romans 4 tie in this point?

I would say, "yes."

Your argument appears to side step these basic facts or truths in Scripture and your out there in left field somewhere.

I pray you will see such a basic truth someday.
For now, it just seems like you are desiring to insert something into the text that is not explicitly stated when you examine the whole counsel of God's word.


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Desiderius Erasmus openly acknowledged that his printed Greek New Testament contained numerous errors, typos, and rushed imperfections due to the intense time constraints under which it was produced.
Context of the Production

• Hasty Publication: Erasmus rushed his 1516 edition (Novum Instrumentum omne) to beat the competing Complutensian Polyglot, resulting in literal thousands of typographical and editorial errors.

• Limited Sources: He relied on a small handful of late medieval manuscripts (mostly from the 12th to 15th centuries) available to him in Basel.

• Back-Translations: Because his final leaf of Revelation (Revelation 22:16–21) was missing entirely from his local Greek source (minuscule 2814), he translated those specific verses straight back from the Latin Vulgate into Greek, introducing readings found in no actual ancient Greek manuscript.

Erasmus's Response and Revisions
• Admitting Fault: Stung by sharp criticism from contemporary scholars and theologians over these flaws and omissions, Erasmus defended his methodology while acknowledging mistakes and actively listing, correcting, or adjusting readings in subsequent editions (1519, 1522, 1527, and 1535).

• The "Textus Receptus" Legacy: Although Erasmus recognized the human fallibility and imperfections of his hastily assembled text, later printers and editors (Robert Stephanus and Theodore Beza) built upon it, leading to the 1633 Elzevir publisher's preface branding it the Textus Receptus ("Received Text") which formed the basis of the King James Version.
Gentle Reformation
Conclusions: The TBS, the Textus Receptus, and Franz Delitzsch
Jun 29, 2026 — Conclusions: The TBS, the Textus Receptus, and Franz Delitzsch * Much of the debate in Reformed circles, when it comes to textual criticism, involves newly disc...
reformation21
Erasmus and the Final Verses of Revelation
The Historical Account 22:16-21) were lacking, and its text in other places was sometimes hard to distinguish from the commentary of Andreas of Caesarea in whic...
 
Who is "we"? I am hoping that is a typo unless you are claiming there is more than one person who is writing this post here.


Did Abraham believe the promise of God in that His descendants would be like the stars?
Does Scripture say that this belief was accounted to him for righteousness?
Does Romans 4 tie in this point?

I would say, "yes."

Your argument appears to side step these basic facts or truths in Scripture and your out there in left field somewhere.

I pray you will see such a basic truth someday.
For now, it just seems like you are desiring to insert something into the text that is not explicitly stated when you examine the whole counsel of God's word.


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You are ignoring the context. Prove what is being shown to you is wrong within the passage. Even as in verse six brings us back to what was previously said about faith.

And once again. Why the difference between 3:6 and 15:6. For one to believe in the Lord our God is one thing. But it is better to believe the Lord our God as Gal 3:6 states, is it not? For the devils believe and tremble.
 
Am I understanding your interpretation of Galatians 2:16 correctly? Are you taking the Greek ἐὰν μὴ in its wooden sense of “if not” and understanding the verse along the lines of the following?

“A man cannot be seen as righteous by doing the works of the law, if not through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ working in him.”

Or, to paraphrase what I think you are saying:

“A man is not made righteous by his own works, unless it is through Christ’s faithfulness operating in him; and we enter into this relationship by believing in Christ.”

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If I might add to your conversation with @Qt I would like to make an exegetical, linguistic point about Galatians 2:6.

In Galatians 2:16, μέν ... δέ (men ... de) is a common Greek construction that signals a contrast or contrastive development. It is often smoother to think of it not as a strict "not this, but this" formula, but as "on the one hand ... on the other hand," or "not by this, but rather by this" when the context is strongly contrastive. The particle μέν prepares the reader for a contrasting statement, while δέ introduces the contrasting element. In Galatians 2:16, Paul uses this construction to set justification by the works of the Law over against justification through faith in Christ. The emphasis is not merely grammatical but theological: righteousness is not obtained by works of the Law, but rather through faith in Jesus Christ. Thus, the men-de construction highlights the sharp contrast between two competing means of justification and directs the reader's attention to the second element as Paul's intended emphasis.
 
You are ignoring the context. Prove what is being shown to you is wrong within the passage. Even as in verse six brings us back to what was previously said about faith.

And once again. Why the difference between 3:6 and 15:6. For one to believe in the Lord our God is one thing. But it is better to believe the Lord our God as Gal 3:6 states, is it not? For the devils believe and tremble.
Your stuck in a time loop of error.
You are trying to keep the topic locked in at Galatians. In my view, that is cheating to protect your pet doctrine.
This is why I brought up Abraham and his believing the promise and how that justified him.

I also fully agree with James on works justifying because I see that as a part of the believer's faith in a believer's second step or stage of their life and not as the first step.

As I stated before, I believe there are two aspects of faith or two aspects of salvation.

#1. Belief (Faith) (Ephesians 2:8-9) (no works) (Initial Salvation)​
#2. Faithfulness or Sanctification (Faith) (Second Step / Continued Salvation)​
(Along with a continued belief in God's words - which is a call of the gospel) (2 Thessalonians 2:13-14).​

The first step to get saved is by God's grace through faith (belief) (Romans 4:1-9), by believing the gospel in that Christ died for your sins , He was buried, and risen the third day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4), which also generally involves calling upon Jesus to save you and forgive you of your past life of sin against Him. This is a process of salvation without works of any kind. It's initial salvation. It's the first step to being saved. After taking this step, a person will become born again and be transformed by the Spirit and have spiritual eyes.

The second step is Sanctification (Galatians 6:8-9) in living a holy life by the Spirit according to the word of God (the Bible). This is also a part of the faith and not separate from the faith. So yes, works of faith that James refers to is included in Sanctification. Only Christians who think they can sin and still be saved on some level believe that Sanctification is not necessary as a part of God's plan of salvation. So yes, if the branch does not bear fruit in this life, it is cut off and thrown into the fire. Jesus makes this warning to even branches that are in Him. But to ignore the first step and claim that Galatians 2 is about Sanctification is to put the cart before the horse.

I already gave you the solution.
I am not interested in debating this unless you deal with the wording of Abraham believing the promise and how that belief (not faithfulness) justified him. This is mentioned in the OT and in Romans 4. That is what you need to deal with. I believe those verses just fine. You keep wanting to go back to Galatians to prove your pet doctrine. No thanks. I am not interested in going there because you have a barrel to push. If you explain Romans 4:1-9 and the OT verses about how Abraham was justified by believing the promise, and how that still works with a normal reading in English translations today, then we can move on in this discussion. If not, I am not interested in having any discourse on this topic with you.


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If I might add to your conversation with @Qt I would like to make an exegetical, linguistic point about Galatians 2:6.

In Galatians 2:16, μέν ... δέ (men ... de) is a common Greek construction that signals a contrast or contrastive development. It is often smoother to think of it not as a strict "not this, but this" formula, but as "on the one hand ... on the other hand," or "not by this, but rather by this" when the context is strongly contrastive. The particle μέν prepares the reader for a contrasting statement, while δέ introduces the contrasting element. In Galatians 2:16, Paul uses this construction to set justification by the works of the Law over against justification through faith in Christ. The emphasis is not merely grammatical but theological: righteousness is not obtained by works of the Law, but rather through faith in Jesus Christ. Thus, the men-de construction highlights the sharp contrast between two competing means of justification and directs the reader's attention to the second element as Paul's intended emphasis.
I agree with your conclusion that we are not justified by the works of the law (i.e., works prescribed by the Mosaic Law, including its ceremonial, sacrificial, and judicial ordinances, as well as any attempt to obtain salvation by works alone apart from God’s grace) but by faith. However, I have a few points about the Greek.

1. The μέν...δέ construction isn't in Galatians 2:16. Here is the verse in the Textus Receptus:

εἰδότες ὅτι οὐ δικαιοῦται ἄνθρωπος ἐξ ἔργων νόμου, ἐὰν μὴ διὰ πίστεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, καὶ ἡμεῖς εἰς Χριστὸν Ἰησοῦν ἐπιστεύσαμεν, ἵνα δικαιωθῶμεν ἐκ πίστεως Χριστοῦ, καὶ οὐκ ἐξ ἔργων νόμου· διότι οὐ δικαιωθήσεται ἐξ ἔργων νόμου πᾶσα σάρξ.

You won't find μέν anywhere in it. The critical text adds a δέ at the beginning ("εἰδότες δὲ"), but that single δέ only connects the verse back to verse 15. It isn't paired with a μέν. Galatians 2:6 doesn't have the pair either, so I'm assuming the 2:6 reference was a typo.

2. The construction does appear nearby. Galatians 4:23 has it: "he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise" (ὁ μὲν... ὁ δὲ). Galatians 2:9 also has it in the Textus Receptus: "that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision" (ἡμεῖς μὲν εἰς τὰ ἔθνη, αὐτοὶ δὲ εἰς τὴν περιτομήν). If you're using a critical text, though, you may not find μέν in 2:9.

3. μέν...δέ doesn't always signal opposition. Sometimes it just divides things into two parts, "the one... the other." In Galatians 2:9, Paul isn't contrasting right with wrong. He's describing a division of labor in the mission field. The context determines whether the two sides are opposed.

4. Paul builds the contrast in 2:16 differently. He starts with ἐὰν μή, which the KJV translates as "but": "a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ." He says it again from the other side with καὶ οὐκ: "and not by the works of the law." Then he finishes with διότι ("for") and a universal conclusion: "for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." Paul states the truth three times, which makes the point more forcefully than a μέν...δέ construction would.

5. The second statement shows how to read the first. ἐὰν μή usually means "except." Some have used that to argue that Paul only means a man isn't justified by works of the law apart from faith, as though the two could work together. Paul rules that out by adding "and not by the works of the law." That's why the KJV correctly translates it as "but."

6. The KJV's "faith of Jesus Christ" keeps the full meaning of the Greek. The verse uses a genitive for "the faith of Jesus Christ" (πίστεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ) and a preposition for "we have believed in Jesus Christ" (εἰς Χριστὸν Ἰησοῦν ἐπιστεύσαμεν). I understand the primary sense of "faith of Jesus Christ" to be faith in Jesus Christ. The genitive can express the object of faith without a word for "in," as in Mark 11:22, where πίστιν θεοῦ is translated "Have faith in God." Historical English "of" could carry that same objective sense, and Jerome, Calvin, and Ellicott all understood the phrase as faith in Christ. However, πίστις can also mean faithfulness. The KJV translates it as "fidelity" in Titus 2:10, and Scripture says Christ "was faithful to him that appointed him" (Hebrews 3:2). So "the faithfulness of Jesus Christ" may be a possible secondary sense. The KJV's literal "faith of" leaves room for both, while "faith in" limits it to one. I discuss this in more detail in my study, "Faith of Jesus Christ in Galatians 2:16" [link].

7. Paul's conclusion comes from Scripture. "For by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified" draws on Psalm 143:2: "for in thy sight shall no man living be justified." Paul uses the same principle in Romans 3:20.

Side Note: I believe Galatians 2:16 is talking about the first step, or first aspect, of salvation. That is being saved by God's grace through belief in the gospel message: "how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; and that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures" (1 Corinthians 15:3-4). Notice that Paul says "we have believed" (ἐπιστεύσαμεν), an aorist, looking back to the point when they first believed in order to be justified. This aspect of salvation is 100% without works: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9).

The second step, or second aspect, of salvation is sanctification, which is also part of our faith. Paul goes on to say, "the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God" (Galatians 2:20), and he speaks of "faith which worketh by love" (Galatians 5:6). He brings both aspects together in 2 Thessalonians 2:13: "God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth." Paul rejects the works of the law as the way to be justified, but the faith that justifies does not sit idle. It goes on to be lived out in holiness by the Spirit.



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(1) You changed the wording of 1 Corinthians 5:3. The KJV does not say "as present in spirit" in the second clause. It says "as though I were present." The Greek in Beza 1598 is:

Ἐγὼ μὲν γὰρ ὡς ἀπὼν τῷ σώματι, παρὼν δὲ τῷ πνεύματι, ἤδη κέκρικα ὡς παρὼν
I put my completion of what I understand as Paul's ellipsis in italics. Paul uses ellipses quite a lot in his writing.
 
A lot of KJVO believe the KJV English is inspired and without error; thus, no knowledge of the original languages is necessary. KJVO is wacky enough already, but this kind of thinking propels it to a whole new level of crazy.
yeah, I learned that KJV is less accurate (although only by a couple words! proof of divine intervention) than some other translations, so I use NASB.
 
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(2) Your "while" reading of ὡς does not fit this construction. Temporal ὡς ("when, while, as soon as") normally goes with a finite verb, as in Luke 1:23. Here ὡς goes with a participle referring to the subject, which is the category LSJ gives under C.I: "as if, as." If you read the second clause as "while present," Paul contradicts himself, since he just said he was absent in body. The only way out is to supply "in spirit," which brings us back to point (1).

If your "while" comes from a Strong's-style definition, keep in mind that Strong's lists every way the KJV renders ὡς anywhere in the Bible. "When" and "while" are on that list, but so are "about," "like," "even as," and many others. A list of possible glosses doesn't tell us which one fits this verse. The grammar of the sentence does.
1 Cor. 7:25 Περὶ δὲ τῶν παρθένων ἐπιταγὴν κυρίου οὐκ ἔχω γνώμην δὲ δίδωμι ὡς ἠλεημένος ὑπὸ κυρίου πιστὸς εἶναι
1Co 7:25 Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful.

Do you think Paul means "Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as though/ as if one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful"?

Did the KJV get it wrong here, using as instead of as if? After all, there "ὡς goes with a participle referring to the subject."

I would suggest that an ellipsis of "in spirit" makes perfect sense in the context, if one reads ὡς as "as I am/while I am", rather than "as though I am".
 
(3) You're right that I didn't quote verses 4 and 5. I did not see them as relevant to helping your case. However, let me address them. Verse 4 joins together "my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ." Paul's spirit takes part in the judgment of one congregation, and Christ's power is what makes it effective. That fits what I said, that Paul participated through his apostolic judgment. Paul never claims to be in the midst of every gathering everywhere. Jesus does. "Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them" applies to any gathering, in any place, at the same time. No creature can keep that promise. Paul's statement concerns one church at Corinth. Jesus' statement concerns all of them. They are not the same kind of claim.
I don't disagree that Jesus after His resurrection was/became omnipresent spiritually, after receiving back the glory He had had with the father before the world began. But you have not shown that this was the case in a passage where the context shows He is describing of how things would be in future, after they had received the Holy Spirit when He promises that, "Where two or three are gathered, there I am in the midst."

I am not claiming that Paul was omnipresent in spirit such that, due to His union with Christ he was also omniscient about all places, as Jesus now is. I am suggesting that Jesus enjoyed communion with the Holy Spirit during His ministry, and the Holy Spirit was omnipresent and omniscient and omnipotent, and was able to show Jesus, who had become like us in every way - to show Jesus things and empower Him to do things just as Jesus through the Holy Spirit was able to show Paul things and empower Paul to do things. It does not require Jesus to be omnipresent and omniscient during His ministry, for your alleged proof-texts to be true of him.
 
A lot of KJVO believe the KJV English is inspired and without error; thus, no knowledge of the original languages is necessary. KJVO is wacky enough already, but this kind of thinking propels it to a whole new level of crazy.
yeah, I learned that KJV is less accurate (although only by a couple words! proof of divine intervention) than some other translations, so I use NASB.
Well, there is another body of believers that are not "KJV-Only" (KJV-English-Only) but still regard the KJV as an an inerrant translation.
There is a more rational and scholarly position that I like to call as, "The KJV + its underlying Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek."
While those who hold to this position may not use this exact term I came up with above to describe my position, nevertheless many of us who believe this way do NOT say that the KJV is re-inspired as if if the KJV underwent some kind of double inspiration or anything. Personally, I view the copies of that contain the Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek words underlying the KJV (existing today in printed editions and manuscripts) as the inspired words of God.

As for the claim by others that the KJV is less accurate: Well, less accurate to what? By what standard? The Modern Bibles are not built on any perfect standard but a shape shifting Critical Text in the Nestle and Aland tradition. The NA 29 will come out next year and it has the new heretical reading that says Jesus will become the I AM in Revelation. In other words, one cannot claim accuracy unless one has a settled standard text that a significant body of believers (Christians) can agree upon as accurate.

The NASB 95 teaches that Jesus is the begotten God in John 1:18, which is from their artificially reconstructed Greek Critical Text.
This is a problem because saying that Jesus who is God was begotten attacks His eternal nature in that He existed from eternity's past. Micah 5:2 is also attacked in Modern versions, as well. Instead of saying that the Messiah is from eternity, they say He is from ancient days or ancient times (See: NIV, ESV, AMP, CSB, CEV, GNT).




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I don't disagree that Jesus after His resurrection was/became omnipresent spiritually, after receiving back the glory He had had with the father before the world began. But you have not shown that this was the case in a passage where the context shows He is describing of how things would be in future, after they had received the Holy Spirit when He promises that, "Where two or three are gathered, there I am in the midst."

I am not claiming that Paul was omnipresent in spirit such that, due to His union with Christ he was also omniscient about all places, as Jesus now is. I am suggesting that Jesus enjoyed communion with the Holy Spirit during His ministry, and the Holy Spirit was omnipresent and omniscient and omnipotent, and was able to show Jesus, who had become like us in every way - to show Jesus things and empower Him to do things just as Jesus through the Holy Spirit was able to show Paul things and empower Paul to do things. It does not require Jesus to be omnipresent and omniscient during His ministry, for your alleged proof-texts to be true of him.
Well, I already proved my case and you did not really offer any kind of sufficient rebuttal that would stand under any kind of scrutiny by a professor who speaks Greek as their native tongue and who lives in Greece.

Also, I already provided other Scriptural witnesses. Somehow you would have to come up with other odd unnatural defenses in order to dismantle them all rather than than maybe stop and realize that the weight of the evidence is not in your favor.

1 Cor. 7:25 Περὶ δὲ τῶν παρθένων ἐπιταγὴν κυρίου οὐκ ἔχω γνώμην δὲ δίδωμι ὡς ἠλεημένος ὑπὸ κυρίου πιστὸς εἶναι
1Co 7:25 Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful.

Do you think Paul means "Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as though/ as if one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful"?

Did the KJV get it wrong here, using as instead of as if? After all, there "ὡς goes with a participle referring to the subject."

I would suggest that an ellipsis of "in spirit" makes perfect sense in the context, if one reads ὡς as "as I am/while I am", rather than "as though I am".
ChatGPT, and Claude can also tell you what TR/KJV believers believe on this point with sources to the Greek.
I am personally not interested in a back and forth on this kind of thing right now because I am extremely busy.
If I were to get into the Greek, I would have to write a paper and provide links and sources, and I just do not have time at the moment. But you can ask the AI's to give you links and write that paper for me if you want. I would really appreciate it.



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Well, I already proved my case and you did not really offer any kind of sufficient rebuttal that would stand under any kind of scrutiny by a professor who speaks Greek as their native tongue and who lives in Greece.

Also, I already provided other Scriptural witnesses. Somehow you would have to come up with other odd unnatural defenses in order to dismantle them all rather than than maybe stop and realize that the weight of the evidence is not in your favor.


ChatGPT, and Claude can also tell you what TR/KJV believers believe on this point with sources to the Greek.
I am personally not interested in a back and forth on this kind of thing right now because I am extremely busy.
If I were to get into the Greek, I would have to write a paper and provide links and sources, and I just do not have time at the moment. But you can ask the AI's to give you links and write that paper for me if you want. I would really appreciate it.



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📖😄👍
 
Well, I already proved my case and you did not really offer any kind of sufficient rebuttal that would stand under any kind of scrutiny by a professor who speaks Greek as their native tongue and who lives in Greece.


I knew someone when I lived up north who spoke Greek.
When asking him, he told me that the kind of Greek of the Bible is not what they speak today.
Sort of how Shakespeare wrote in English, but his type gives many today a hard time today.
 
I knew someone when I lived up north who spoke Greek.
When asking him, he told me that the kind of Greek of the Bible is not what they speak today.
Sort of how Shakespeare wrote in English, but his type gives many today a hard time today.
I would trust a person who speaks Modern English to have a better understanding of 1600s English than someone who does not even know Modern English. There are a lot of similarities between the two that often get ignored.

Likewise, while Modern Greek and Koine Greek are not identical, to suggest that Greek people who actually speak, read, and think in Greek do not possess certain linguistic advantages in understanding Koine Greek over some American professor who neither lives in Greece nor speaks or thinks in Greek is simply unreasonable. Modern Greek is not some completely unrelated language. It is the direct historical descendant of Koine Greek, with approximately 2,000 years of linguistic continuity. Much of its vocabulary, grammatical structure, and word formation remains recognizable today. Words such as ἀγάπη (love), ψυχή (soul), πνεῦμα (spirit), and ἄνθρωπος (man or human being) have survived into Modern Greek. Greek speakers also possess a living familiarity with Greek expressions, sentence constructions, and patterns of speech that someone who has only studied Greek academically may not possess.

Furthermore, Greek has a continuous tradition of reading the Greek New Testament in its churches. Does this mean every native Greek speaker automatically understands every grammatical construction or historical meaning found in Koine Greek? Of course not! However, a Greek professor who is fluent in Modern Greek and formally trained in Koine Greek possesses both the advantages of native fluency and specialized historical knowledge. To dismiss those advantages simply because Modern Greek has undergone changes over the centuries is unreasonable. After all, one of the best ways to become familiar with the natural workings of a living language is to become fluent in it. That is Language 101.

Besides, consulting Modern Greek professors who live in Greece and whose native tongue is Greek is not the only tool in my toolbox. I also consult older lexicons that predate the rise of German Rationalism in the 1700s, which I believe began influencing certain aspects of biblical scholarship and later lexicons in the 1800s. There are also the writings of the early church, the Reformers, the immediate context of Scripture, and biblical cross-references.

In other words, I take a systematic approach to understanding God's words in the original languages. I do not simply look to one professor, one pastor, or some other individual as though his interpretation settles the matter. Neither do I accept whatever crazy idea happens to float into someone's head that cannot be supported by established definitions, historical usage, or evidence that can be independently examined. I want to know how Greek and Hebrew words were actually used and understood by classically trained believers, especially those who possessed a thorough knowledge of these languages. I also want to examine how scholars throughout history understood these words, how older lexicographers defined them, and how their meanings fit within the immediate context and the rest of Scripture. I am not interested in inventing private definitions that nobody else can substantiate.

Take, for example, the Greek word σπουδάζω (spoudazō), which appears in 2 Timothy 2:15, where the KJV says, “Study to shew thyself approved unto God.” Modern Bible critics frequently object to the word “Study,” insisting that the Greek means “be diligent” or “make every effort.” While diligence certainly belongs to the meaning of the Greek word, that does not mean the KJV's rendering is incorrect.

Here is where my systematic approach comes into play. First, the ancient Greek lexicon LSJ actually lists “study” as an attested meaning of σπουδάζω, citing the Greek writer Philostratus from approximately the second to third century AD. Second, Jacques Toussain's 1552 Greek-Latin lexicon, published nearly sixty years before the KJV, begins its definition of σπουδάζω with the Latin word studeo, which could mean applying oneself to learning or study. Third, Stephanus's Greek Thesaurus likewise connects the Greek word with the Latin studeo word-family. Fourth, King James himself used the English word “study” in connection with understanding the Scriptures in his Basilikon Doron (1599). Fifth, the very same Greek verb, σπουδάζω, is still used by native Greek speakers today to mean studying, particularly studying at a university!

Does the Modern Greek meaning automatically establish what Paul meant nearly 2,000 years ago? Of course not! That is precisely why I do not rely upon Modern Greek alone. I compare it with ancient Greek usage, older lexicons, historical English usage, and especially the immediate context of Scripture. In this case, Paul is speaking about a workman who is to be “rightly dividing the word of truth.” Thus, careful study and diligent attention to God's word naturally fit the context.

Notice how these different lines of evidence work together. I am not simply picking a definition that happens to agree with my personal beliefs. I am examining the historical evidence, including sources that existed long before the modern debates over the King James Bible.

And this is precisely why I believe native Greek speakers, especially Greek professors who are also trained in Koine Greek, should not simply be brushed aside. Their knowledge of the living Greek language can provide another valuable line of evidence when considered alongside ancient usage and historical scholarship.

That is the difference between conducting a systematic investigation into the meanings of God's words and simply making up a private interpretation that exists nowhere except in someone's own mind.

Even more importantly, there is asking the Father to send His Holy Spirit to illuminate our understanding so that we may see the truth of the Scriptures, even when that truth is something we may not personally like.

Today, many people have their own private interpretations and personal beliefs, and the never-ending, shape-shifting Critical Text and Modern English Bible translations are certainly not helping matters.

This eclectic mindset, where everyone essentially constructs his own tailor-made Bible in his own mind, is becoming increasingly common. People who do not even know the original languages are making judgments about God's words without possessing the linguistic knowledge necessary to evaluate them properly. Instead, they often elevate whatever stray thought enters their minds into some kind of personal authority. I believe this is just another sign of the last days in which we are living.

Many believers have practically become drug addicts to the practice of chopping up the Bible in their own minds, constructing their own personalized Bible that exists nowhere except inside their own heads. But how can such a thing possibly serve as an authority or a standard for any larger body of believers?

With the KJV, we can at least say that we have a standard and a settled text that has brought unity among believers and encouraged the memorization of God's words for hundreds of years. A significant number of believers can agree precisely upon where God's words are found, rather than continually debating which reading or a word from a particular translation full of errors should be accepted.

Today's postmodern approach to Modern Bibles does not even leave believers with one settled Bible. Instead, they are left with a shape-shifting Greek text and contradictory English translations that produce confusion rather than unity.

How can believers possibly hold one another accountable to the same words of God when each person is essentially constructing his own Bible according to his own personal preferences?

God is not the author of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33). Yet confusion is precisely what this pick-and-choose approach to God's words continues to produce. That is why when you speak to them about common sense things, they just don't get it.


....
 
(5) Let’s also not ignore John 3:13, which says in the KJV:

“And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.”

While speaking to Nicodemus on earth, Jesus describes Himself as “the Son of man which is in heaven.” This supports Christ’s divine presence beyond His bodily location on earth. I understand this in connection with His being one with the Father in heaven (John 10:30).
John uses the same structure in Chapter 1, where he writes,
Jhn 1:15
John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
Jhn 1:16
And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
καὶ ἐκ τοῦ πληρώματος αὐτοῦ ἡμεῖς πάντες ἐλάβομεν καὶ χάριν ἀντὶ χάριτος·

Jhn 1:17
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
ὅτι ὁ νόμος διὰ Μωσέως ἐδόθη ἡ χάρις καὶ ἡ ἀλήθεια διὰ Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ ἐγένετο

Jhn 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
θεὸν οὐδεὶς ἑώρακεν πώποτε· ὁ μονογενὴς υἱός, ὁ ὢν εἰς τὸν κόλπον τοῦ πατρὸς ἐκεῖνος ἐξηγήσατο

Jhn 1:19
And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?
Καὶ αὕτη ἐστὶν ἡ μαρτυρία τοῦ Ἰωάννου ὅτε ἀπέστειλαν οἱ Ἰουδαῖοι ἐξ Ἱεροσολύμων ἱερεῖς καὶ Λευίτας ἵνα ἐρωτήσωσιν αὐτὸν Σὺ τίς εἶ
Jhn 1:20
And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.

Whose words are the words in bold red. Are they John the Baptist's words? or are they the apostle John's words, his comments parenthetically inserted after John's words, but introduced with kai ?

Why cannot John be doing the same thing in chapter 3, interrupting Jesus words and inserting his own commentary introduced with kai?
 
(5) Let’s also not ignore John 3:13, which says in the KJV:

“And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.”

While speaking to Nicodemus on earth, Jesus describes Himself as “the Son of man which is in heaven.” This supports Christ’s divine presence beyond His bodily location on earth. I understand this in connection with His being one with the Father in heaven (John 10:30).

The modern Critical Text omits “which is in heaven” from John 3:13, and translations following that reading omit it from their main text as well. This is a Greek textual difference, not merely an English translation choice. The omitted Greek is ὁ ὢν ἐν τῷ οὐρανῷ, meaning “who is in heaven.” Thus, this omission removes an explicit testimony to His heavenly presence while on earth.
It looks like I am using the wrong term to describe this structure, which may be misdirecting you. I should be calling John 3:13-21 an explanatory aside or expansion, not a parenthesis. John is departing from Jesus own words to explain why, at the time of his writing, Jesus' is qualified to be taken seriously as one who now speaks with knowledge of heavenly things.

Another example of John using "an explanatory aside or expansion" is John 1:6-18, as I have cited in my previous post.
 
John uses the same structure in Chapter 1, where he writes,
Jhn 1:15
John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
Jhn 1:16
And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
καὶ ἐκ τοῦ πληρώματος αὐτοῦ ἡμεῖς πάντες ἐλάβομεν καὶ χάριν ἀντὶ χάριτος·

Jhn 1:17
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
ὅτι ὁ νόμος διὰ Μωσέως ἐδόθη ἡ χάρις καὶ ἡ ἀλήθεια διὰ Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ ἐγένετο

Jhn 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
θεὸν οὐδεὶς ἑώρακεν πώποτε· ὁ μονογενὴς υἱός, ὁ ὢν εἰς τὸν κόλπον τοῦ πατρὸς ἐκεῖνος ἐξηγήσατο

Jhn 1:19
And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?
Καὶ αὕτη ἐστὶν ἡ μαρτυρία τοῦ Ἰωάννου ὅτε ἀπέστειλαν οἱ Ἰουδαῖοι ἐξ Ἱεροσολύμων ἱερεῖς καὶ Λευίτας ἵνα ἐρωτήσωσιν αὐτὸν Σὺ τίς εἶ
Jhn 1:20
And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.

Whose words are the words in bold red. Are they John the Baptist's words? or are they the apostle John's words, his comments parenthetically inserted after John's words, but introduced with kai ?

Why cannot John be doing the same thing in chapter 3, interrupting Jesus words and inserting his own commentary introduced with kai?
Your example from John 1:15–18 does not establish that John 3:13 is the apostle John's commentary rather than the words of Jesus Christ.

First, I certainly recognize that the apostle John sometimes inserts his own explanatory commentary into the conversations he records.

Furthermore, there are specific words, larger clauses, and contextual indicators in both John 1 and John 2 that help us recognize when the apostle John is providing his own explanatory commentary that interrupts the flow of the normal narrative.

In John 1:16, for example, we read:

"And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace."

Now, let me ask you something. Who exactly has received this fullness and "grace for grace"? Are we talking about the Jews and other people living during the time of John the Baptist's ministry, or Christians looking back upon what they had received through Jesus Christ?

Notice the KJV expression "all we," which in modern English would be "we all," corresponding to the Greek ἡμεῖς πάντες. This is an important contextual indicator because it fits naturally with the apostle John speaking from the perspective of Christians looking back upon what they had received through our Lord, rather than merely continuing John the Baptist's testimony during his earlier ministry.

After all, the Christian community following Christ's earthly ministry had not yet developed when John the Baptist was baptizing.

Furthermore, John 1:15–18 is not even describing a living, back-and-forth conversation between individuals as we find in John 3. The apostle John is still presenting his introductory narrative concerning our Lord, His divine origin, and the testimony of John the Baptist. It is not until John 1:19 that we begin reading the fuller historical scene involving the priests and Levites questioning John the Baptist. So the apostle John is already presenting testimony and explanatory truths in a narrative setting, rather than interrupting an ongoing conversation between two individuals.

Taken together, the expression "all we," the larger explanatory clauses concerning Christ's fullness, the law given through Moses, and grace and truth coming through Jesus Christ, and the surrounding narrative context provide recognizable indications of the apostle John's explanatory commentary.

Likewise, consider John 2:19–21. After Jesus speaks about destroying the temple and raising it up in three days, John inserts this explanatory statement:

"But he spake of the temple of his body" (John 2:21).

This is clearly the apostle John's commentary, and we can recognize it from the wording itself, both in the Greek and in the English. John refers to Jesus in the third person and explains what Jesus meant by His previous statement.

The Greek uses the expression ἐκεῖνος δὲ ἔλεγεν ("But he spake"), and the entire clause clearly steps outside the conversation to explain what Jesus meant by His earlier statement. So it is not merely a few isolated words, but the larger clauses themselves, their grammatical construction, and the surrounding context that make these explanatory statements recognizable in both Greek and English.

There is another important distinction you seem to be overlooking.

John 1:15–18 is part of the apostle John's introductory narrative, where he is presenting various historical and theological truths concerning Jesus Christ, His divine origin, John the Baptist's testimony, and His relationship with the Father.

However, John 3 is different. Here we are reading about a living scene involving an actual conversation between Jesus Christ and Nicodemus. Jesus is explicitly identified as the speaker in John 3:10, and He continues explaining earthly and heavenly things in verse 12.

Then, in verse 13, the subject naturally continues with the Son of man's unique relationship to heaven.

So you are comparing two different literary contexts. One involves an introductory narrative containing historical testimony and theological commentary, while the other involves a continuous conversation between two individuals.

Now, I am not saying that the apostle John could not insert commentary into such a conversation. What I am saying is that you have not demonstrated that he actually did so in John 3:13.

Second, the Greek conjunction καί (kai), meaning "and," does not establish a change of speaker. It can connect statements made by the same speaker just as easily as statements made by different speakers. So merely pointing to καί does not prove your interpretation.

For example, in John 5:20–23, Jesus continues explaining His relationship with the Father. In verse 20, the conjunction καί ("and") introduces another substantial clause: "and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel." Jesus then continues discussing His authority to give life, His authority in judgment, and the honour due to the Son (John 5:21–23).

Yet nobody would reasonably argue that the apostle John suddenly interrupts Jesus here simply because of καί. So why assume such an interruption in John 3:13? The conjunction itself proves nothing about a change of speaker. We must look at the larger clauses and their surrounding context.

Third, look at the immediate context of John 3:10–15.

In John 3:10, Jesus is explicitly identified as the one speaking to Nicodemus. In verse 12, Jesus says:

"If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?"

Then, immediately in verse 13, we read:

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."

Notice the connection. Jesus has just been discussing His authority to speak about heavenly things, and the very next verse explains His unique relationship to heaven. The following verses continue discussing the Son of man and His being lifted up (John 3:14–15).

Where is the contextual indication that the apostle John suddenly interrupts Jesus here?

Again, where are the specific words, larger explanatory clauses, or contextual indicators that we find in John 1:15–18 and John 2:19–21, which help us recognize when the apostle John is providing his own commentary? There are no such comparable words or explanatory clauses here in John 3:13 that clearly establish a change of speaker. Instead, the passage naturally continues Jesus' discussion of heavenly things with Nicodemus. So why should we suddenly insert an interruption by the apostle John when neither the Greek nor the English provides the same kind of clear indication we find in the earlier examples?

If you were to go to BibleHub right now and read John 3:1–15 in the KJV, you would see that the natural flow of the passage does not support inserting the interpretation you are trying to force into the text. It sounds odd and out of place to suggest that the apostle John suddenly interrupts Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus in verse 13. So why are you doing this? Because you have a barrow to push, rather than simply allowing the passage to speak for itself.

I'm not interested in going back and forth on this anymore. It's obvious that you are doing backflip twists through hoops of fire while poodles are latched onto your fingers with their little teeth. I mean, we can maybe see one of the nine as an exception, but ALL nine of them needing to be explained away by some strained, oddball, crazy, forced, and unnatural theory is a bit too much. Just let the Bible speak to you naturally and plainly, and stop trying to fight against what the text plainly says. We see a clear pattern of Jesus having His own divine power during His earthly ministry. You may not like that idea, but it's what the Bible teaches plainly in nine places.


....
 
Your example from John 1:15–18 does not establish that John 3:13 is the apostle John's commentary rather than the words of Jesus Christ.
I never said it does establish my position. I merely claimed that it validates the possibility of my position being what John had in mind. And it demonstrates that your previous assertion that John 3: 13-21. cannot be the apostle's commentary rather than Jesus' own words because in is introduced with kai, is untenable. These verses could be Jesus' words, but they could also be John's own words. Scholars vary on whether John 3:13-21 are all Jesus' words; or are Jesus' words until verse 15 inclusive and John's commentary from 17 to 21 inclusive; or are all the evangelist's words from v. 13 to 21 inclusive. The text per se reads quite naturally either of those three ways. Your claims that only the first option can possibly be correct is epistemically presumptuous and false
First, I certainly recognize that the apostle John sometimes inserts his own explanatory commentary into the conversations he records.

Furthermore, there are specific words, larger clauses, and contextual indicators in both John 1 and John 2 that help us recognize when the apostle John is providing his own explanatory commentary that interrupts the flow of the normal narrative.

In John 1:16, for example, we read:

"And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace."

Now, let me ask you something. Who exactly has received this fullness and "grace for grace"? Are we talking about the Jews and other people living during the time of John the Baptist's ministry, or Christians looking back upon what they had received through Jesus Christ?

Notice the KJV expression "all we," which in modern English would be "we all," corresponding to the Greek ἡμεῖς πάντες. This is an important contextual indicator because it fits naturally with the apostle John speaking from the perspective of Christians looking back upon what they had received through our Lord, rather than merely continuing John the Baptist's testimony during his earlier ministry.

After all, the Christian community following Christ's earthly ministry had not yet developed when John the Baptist was baptizing.

Furthermore, John 1:15–18 is not even describing a living, back-and-forth conversation between individuals as we find in John 3. The apostle John is still presenting his introductory narrative concerning our Lord, His divine origin, and the testimony of John the Baptist. It is not until John 1:19 that we begin reading the fuller historical scene involving the priests and Levites questioning John the Baptist. So the apostle John is already presenting testimony and explanatory truths in a narrative setting, rather than interrupting an ongoing conversation between two individuals.

Taken together, the expression "all we," the larger explanatory clauses concerning Christ's fullness, the law given through Moses, and grace and truth coming through Jesus Christ, and the surrounding narrative context provide recognizable indications of the apostle John's explanatory commentary.

Likewise, consider John 2:19–21. After Jesus speaks about destroying the temple and raising it up in three days, John inserts this explanatory statement:

"But he spake of the temple of his body" (John 2:21).

This is clearly the apostle John's commentary, and we can recognize it from the wording itself, both in the Greek and in the English. John refers to Jesus in the third person and explains what Jesus meant by His previous statement.

The Greek uses the expression ἐκεῖνος δὲ ἔλεγεν ("But he spake"), and the entire clause clearly steps outside the conversation to explain what Jesus meant by His earlier statement. So it is not merely a few isolated words, but the larger clauses themselves, their grammatical construction, and the surrounding context that make these explanatory statements recognizable in both Greek and English.

There is another important distinction you seem to be overlooking.

John 1:15–18 is part of the apostle John's introductory narrative, where he is presenting various historical and theological truths concerning Jesus Christ, His divine origin, John the Baptist's testimony, and His relationship with the Father.

However, John 3 is different. Here we are reading about a living scene involving an actual conversation between Jesus Christ and Nicodemus. Jesus is explicitly identified as the speaker in John 3:10, and He continues explaining earthly and heavenly things in verse 12.

Then, in verse 13, the subject naturally continues with the Son of man's unique relationship to heaven.

So you are comparing two different literary contexts. One involves an introductory narrative containing historical testimony and theological commentary, while the other involves a continuous conversation between two individuals.

Now, I am not saying that the apostle John could not insert commentary into such a conversation. What I am saying is that you have not demonstrated that he actually did so in John 3:13.
The contextual differences between the John 1 and the John 3 passages is completely irrelevant to whether John 3:13-21 are a continuation of Jesus reply to Nicidemus orr are the evangelist's own comments. Just because some grammatical structure is used in one context that has certain features is not proof that it cannot be being used in a different context which lacks those features. I challenge any reader of this post -

"Read John 3 with an open mind as to whether vv. 13-21 are John's explanatory comments, and judge for yourself whether the chapter flows perfectly well in accord with that possibility. Judge for yourself whether @Bible_Highlighter is overly dismissive of this possibility, given the correlation to John 1:16-18,which has the same structure and purpose.