What do you believe the baptism of the Holy Spirit is? Can you give a scriptural reference?
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I understand. There are those who believe OSAS so they can live like the devil. They don't understand eternal salvation to begin with.
The purpose of the baptism of the Holy Spirit is to equip the believer for ministry. And yes, it comes with a bag of tools (gifts) necessary for spreading the good news and battling the enemy. The discipiles were not fully equipped to minister until after receive Holy Spirit. I have experienced it and they received it (upper room). I’m sure you’ve heard the term in John 1:33 and in the upper room Jesus said to tarry until the Holy Spirit comes upon you. It’s not what we “believe it to be.” It’s a spiritual action/ transaction that takes place, just like salvation.
I could give you a whole lot of scripture and then you would just argue it away.
Just like salvation, we don’t stay there. We move on to use this to progress spiritually and minister to others.
I'm not arguing. I was just seeing how you understood Holy Spirit baptism.
The simple truth about salvation is we can never hold on to nor walk away from....its a gift from God.
If we base it on our performance .....all are sinners and come short.
At the end of the day will we here...well done or I never knew you.
As Paul siad...let us pray that we are found worthy to escape.
If we base it on our performance .....all are sinners and come short.
At the end of the day will we here...well done or I never knew you.
As Paul siad...let us pray that we are found worthy to escape.
@wattie Pay close attention. Don't let the word games fool you. Just about every Christian on this forum and every other forum I am on relies on their works if you can sift through their word salad. They deny rewards,rank, reign. And that severe Discipline from the Lord is NOT loss of salvation or not really saved.
@Cameron143........So the believer eventually goes into "sin all you want" and "denies God."
Are they still saved? Or not really saved in the first place?........Or?
I know what you mean. The Lordship salvationist back-loads works into salvation, so they may say the believer WILL be faithful or they were never saved to begin with.
This can be subtle, where they will still agree with OSAS and belief on Jesus for salvation.
The 'have to maintain your salvation ' crowd is more obviously working for their salvation. Rejection of OSAS and sometimes good works instead of belief on Jesus Christ.
What I have found though is variations within reformed teachings, mean sometimes its barely different to straight biblical salvation. For eg.. calvinism 'light'... won't have God predestining people to heaven or hell, but based on believing on Jesus.
Have you been born again? Do you strive to sin or not to sin? Just because one is not subject to condemnation any longer doesn't mean they will try to get away with whatever they can. Christians are given new hearts and spirits and are indwelt by the Holy Spirit. They aren't going on sin sprees. They are desirous of and striving towards perfection. They grieve over sin and ask for forgiveness and divine help. Anyone who tells you that they are living in sin and God is okay with it probably isn't saved.
Why is it so hard to believe.......Faith alone in Christ alone?
Why is it so hard to believe .........That a SINNER will still have eternal life?
Arrogance and pride is the answer. When we get to the eternal state, even the most righteous of us all will say.......," THAT was sin?!!?."
We have no idea what true perfection/holiness is. Grace is a NECESSITY for us ALL....for a lifetime.
Ok. So you don't believe in the biblical preservation of believers. (as I knew)
You believe in your desires and striving. Perseverance of the saints....Calvies.
Wow...you read that all wrong. My point was that people who have new hearts and spirits have different and holy desires and do not operate in the flesh. And those indwelt by the Spirit are under conviction when they sin. They aren't trying to sin. The opposite is true. And perseverance of the saints isn't accomplished by the individual, but by the Lord. That's why preservation is the better term.
Do not Grieve the Spirit.
Do not quench the Spirit.
Being in fellowship and walking in the Spirit is the Christians way of life.
You can focus on your sin, desires and striving all you want........You are not in fellowship and walking in the Spirit if you are just a do gooder and striving for perfection.....Satan is striving for perfection.
Nope. It may take months, years or decades for a believer to LEARN what the difference of EVIL and GOOD is.
The calvies with not really saved and the armies with lose salvation are a true testament to it.
The doctrine of OSAS is unbiblical. There are good evidences in the New Testament, that it is possible for a Christian to fall away from the Lord. The Sower parable is one. Also the book of Galatians is another. Another passage:
Acts 20:29-31
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears
KJV
Falling away is a willful act - it isn't a helpless falling away. Always prayerfully living for Christ and pleasing Him in all things - needs to be kept at top priority. Any time a Christian allows himself to drift into lazy spirituality - he is in danger. The Laodiceans had fallen into lazy spirituality, and the result was bringing themselves under God's judgment.
Rev 3:16
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
KJV
Yep...........I will be like God.
The very reason most believers strive for less sin or no sin.....To be like God.
Focus on sin(paid for) and not Gods PLAN for sinners.
The spue thee out of my mouth verse is in relation to an entire local church.
The phrase is addressed to a whole congregation.
Revelation also speaks of churches having a 'lampstand'. The place of the Holy Spirit in a NT assembly.
So, spue out of the mouth refers to a local church no longer being one of God's churches.
If the verse is addressed to a whole congregation, that is the application.
I also don't mean a building when I say 'church '...but the believers who are members of a NT congregation.....who may meet at a building.
The individual members don't lose salvation, but the whole congregation loses the Holy Spirit 'in their midst '
Well, the thing is, I think the level of sin in people's lives gets greatly underestimated. Like you say. It isn't just the deadly seven. It's imperfection. Which absolutely everyone, saved or not, is imperfect.
That's the significance of verses like Romans 5:8
How do you understand the following verses.
Revelation 3:4-5
But you do have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their garments, and because they are worthy, they will walk
with Me in white. Like them, he who overcomes will be dressed in white. And I will never blot out his name from the Book of Life,
but I will confess his name before My Father and His angels.
Is the church in Sardis different from the church in Laodicea?
Revelation 3:15-16
I know your deeds; you are neither cold nor hot. How I wish you were one or the other! So because you are lukewarm
neither hot nor cold—I am about to vomit you out of My mouth!
Such strong words to the folk in Sardis that seems to mirror the strong warning to the church in Sardis.
I would directly associate both warnings with a falling from grace, both the church itself and the folk within that church.
Don't tell the apostle Paul that.
I guess when he taught us what the state of being is when we're sanctified, he was under the delusion that when he sinned, it wasn't him doing it but sin dwelling in him doing it.
Maybe thats the real problem, people are incapable of understanding basic truths of God anymore.