Obedience REQUIRED

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By focusing only on the works of the flesh in Galatians 5:19–21, you overlooked verse 18, which is central to Paul’s argument.
I didn't overlook it, but was making it easier for the readers to differentiate between those who are in Christ and who is NOT in Christ.
Those serving the flesh, are not in Christ; and if they do not repent of such behaviors will perish.
The verses you quoted address the unsaved, not the saved or how they are saved.
I agree, those doing the listed things are not converted...and salvation will only be granted to those walking in the Spirit on the last day's judgement
By taking them out of context, you made them support your interpretation and obscured their true message. Galatians 5:1, however, tells us to “stand fast in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free.”
That liberty, is from the works of the Law; circumcision, dietary rules, feast keeping, tithing, sabbath keeping, priesthoods, etc.
Through His finished work and His blood on the cross, Christ has already made His spiritual children completely free; this liberty is neither gained nor maintained by human effort.
His Spiritual children are incapable of committing sin. (1 John 3:9)
It is the devil's children that do the works of the "flesh".
As Paul states in Galatians 5:18—the verse you omitted
I didn't omit it, as it had nothing at all to do with the point I was making about the works of the flesh preventing eventual salvation.
— “But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.”
Amen.
And the Spirit doesn't lead men to do the works of the "flesh".
Being led by the Spirit through salvation removes those saved from being under the law;
Being led by the Spirit to conversion removes man from being under the Law.
If they are still committing works of the "flesh", they are still under the Law, and unconverted.
salvation is not a reward earned by human effort- it is a gift given purely through God's grace.
Our salvation is dependent on our actions.
Those who are dead in Adam remain under the dominion of the law and thereby desire to perform the works of the flesh for salvation.
No, they just want to keep committing sin.
By contrast, those whom Christ the Savior has saved walk in the Spirit and thereby trust in Christ alone as Savior, even though their corrupt flesh continues to war against the soul until death.
Those in Christ have had the old man of the flesh destroyed, by obediently getting baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of their past past sins.
It is written..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
You say that without turning from sin, getting baptized, and submission, there is no salvation.
Correct.
But by that, you make it dependent upon your actions, not upon Christ's: if we must do something to obtain salvation, then salvation is a debt paid for your efforts and Christ is not your Savior, you are.
Hardly, as Christ provided all we need to do to get washed by His blood, and to resist temptation faithfully until the end.
Without His intercession, we would at best, be OT Jews trying unsuccessfully to be saved by Law keeping.
Like Paul described in his recollection of pre-conversion life in Romans 7.
As I have explained many times, Jesus Christ alone is the complete Savior.
Yes, He is.
But if we don't obey Him, He will be the judge who sends us to the lake of fire.
By Himself, He perfectly accomplished everything required to freely give salvation to His eternal spiritual children, leaving nothing for them to achieve.
I don't see our obedient behavior achieving anything, but manifesting our love for God, His Son, and for our neighbors.
Yet you do not consider His work sufficient and seek to replace it with your own.
Without the suffering, death, and resurrection of Jesus, I would still be a servant of sin like the rest of the unconverted are.
He opened the door, but I had to go through it to be counted among the faithful children of God.
In doing so, you make yourself your own savior and reject Christ. You cannot have it both ways: either Christ is entirely the Savior, or you are—and you have chosen yourself. The choice you've made could not be clearer.
If you are drowning, and a life guard tosses you a life-ring, and you grab it to get to shore, who saved you ?
Weren't both of you involved in the saving ?
Jesus offers men salvation, but it comes with conditions.
 
Eternal life is not conditional.
Uhhh...
Where you spend it is most certainly conditional.
I am glad you added that.
As eternal life (with God) is dependent on all we do with these lives.
It is written..."But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment." (Matt 12:36)
Until the Day of Judgement, none of us knows our fate.
I am sure you are as glad as I am, that God has provided the ways and means of abiding faithfully in Him.
I am especially appreciative of 1 Cor 10:13..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."
Keep looking for the escapes !
 
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If you are drowning, and a life guard tosses you a life-ring, and you grab it to get to shore, who saved you ?
Weren't both of you involved in the saving ?
Jesus offers men salvation, but it comes with conditions.

Your lifeguard analogy completely fails when compared to Scripture. The sinner is not drowning; he is already drowned and dead. Ephesians 2 clearly declares that before being saved, we were all dead in trespasses and sins. A dead person lying at the bottom of the ocean cannot see, cannot hear, and cannot take hold of a life-ring to help save himself. By claiming that both man and Christ are involved in the saving, you explicitly deny that Jesus is a complete Savior who alone saves the dead. You have already made your belief clear to everyone that your salvation is conditional on your own performance and compliance. Christ is not your Savior; your own willpower is. Your point of view has hardened, so, why do you keep belaboring it? There is no reason to continue this discussion further.
 
Your lifeguard analogy completely fails when compared to Scripture. The sinner is not drowning; he is already drowned and dead. Ephesians 2 clearly declares that before being saved, we were all dead in trespasses and sins. A dead person lying at the bottom of the ocean cannot see, cannot hear, and cannot take hold of a life-ring to help save himself. By claiming that both man and Christ are involved in the saving, you explicitly deny that Jesus is a complete Savior who alone saves the dead. You have already made your belief clear to everyone that your salvation is conditional on your own performance and compliance. Christ is not your Savior; your own willpower is. Your point of view has hardened, so, why do you keep belaboring it? There is no reason to continue this discussion further.
Are there any dead in trespasses and sins, in Christ ?
Are there any alive in trespasses and sins, in Christ ?
The answer to both questions is NO.
So, there can be no sinners in Christ.
By following the exhortations of the Lord and His apostles, we can be made alive without trespasses and sins !
 
how many kinds of works are there?

1) dead or natural works apart from Christ and grace

2) works of the law (mosaic)

3) works of the flesh

4) good works in Christ and grace

Jn 15:5 apart from Christ? nothing!

Phil 4:13 with Christ? all things!


why do we need to repent of dead works? heb 6:1

does this imply the practice of good or living (grace filled) works?

thks
Yes, of course.
 
"He who has the Son has the Life". My Bible says that I am seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus. Ephesians 2:6.
Your Bible says no such thing. The pronoun "us" is referring to Christians not individuals who believe they are Christians.

The pronoun's antecedent is a group (Christians) not any specific individuals. You are injecting yourself into a pronoun, a common assumption. This is ignorance that borders on arrogance.

Your Colossians 3:3 understanding is quite the same.
 
Are there any dead in trespasses and sins, in Christ ?
Are there any alive in trespasses and sins, in Christ ?
The answer to both questions is NO.
So, there can be no sinners in Christ.
By following the exhortations of the Lord and His apostles, we can be made alive without trespasses and sins !
Once again, your argument fails because it reverses the order of events. You claim that following “exhortations” can give a person spiritual life, but Ephesians 2:1 and 2:5 clearly shows that no human action can make anyone alive. We are completely dead, and it is God alone who makes us alive, changing us from one extreme state to the other. A corpse cannot hear or follow instructions to gain life. It is God who makes us alive while we are still yet dead in sin, before being able to do anything to help ourselves.
1 Corinthians 1:30 says, “But of him are ye in Christ Jesus,” and 2 Corinthians 1:21 states, “Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God.” God alone, according to His good pleasure and by His own power, places and establishes His children in Christ. This is never a reward for compliance or following directions, but a completely free gift given to them by His mercy and grace through Christ.
You also confuse spiritual state with physical, earthly, state. In God’s sight, the saint has been made clean through Jesus Christ, yet sin remains in the flesh until death. First Timothy 1:15 states that in the present tense: “Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.” Paul did not say he had been chief before he was in Christ; he was describing his present condition. By claiming that life is given by the following of directions, you again deny that Jesus Christ is the complete Savior who alone saves His children without any contribution from them.
 
I grew up in the CoC. I know how you play word games to say works aren't works. The word games don't work with me.
When I was a teenager, I had temporarily attended the CoC and I remember how they played word games with works as well. They even seemed to have their own personal definition of non-meritorious works. Their word games don't work with me either. They also try to "shoehorn" or smuggle works "into" salvation through faith, not works.
 
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Tht is not correct
You are in effect trying to outlaw turning from sin and getting baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of past sins, to be saved on the day of judgement !
Youy should be ashamed of youself.
Well yes. I would like to outlaw people who are tryign to impose water baptism in place of spirit baptism. for just like the jew who imposed physical circumcision. they are teaching a false gospel. which paul said should be anathema
Serving one's God is a whole lot bettter that burnt sacrifices and offerings.
I serve God

But replacing his grace with works will earn you hell. Not a place in heaven, which no man can earn
 
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That's because they are uninformed of what all the pharisee did. The reason they were in to false doctrine is because they added to and took away from God's Word which they were led to do by the devil.
you are in a world all of your own making my friend.
No, I go by what God's Word says grace is which is something the fake grace people reject:

Titus 2:11,12
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world

Notice verse 12 and make note that I did not write that. The Lord did through the Apostle Paul.
Those claiming legalism must reject verse 12 in order to continue in their fake grace.
And?

does it say that we are saved by doing these things?
Yeah, ask the Lord lead me away from following what He teaches in His Word so I become like the fake grace people?

Been there done that. I used to attend a church back in the day that got all caught up in turning the grace of the Lord in to lasciviousness and the Lord led me to separate from them due to their false doctrine.
Ah//No your just like the pharisees. Pumping your chest. Pointing out all the sinners. and praising God your not like them.

Good luck with that
 
how many kinds of works are there?
A work is done to earn a wage, To receive a reward. Biblically, it is somethign you can boast in.
1) dead or natural works apart from Christ and grace

2) works of the law (mosaic)

3) works of the flesh

4) good works in Christ and grace

Jn 15:5 apart from Christ? nothing!

Phil 4:13 with Christ? all things!


why do we need to repent of dead works? heb 6:1

does this imply the practice of good or living (grace filled) works?

thks
You need to repent of works which can not save you. they are dead works. meaningless. because you will not be rewarded for them.