Obedience REQUIRED
- Thread starter ScooterJackson
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
My point is that you refer to the Old Testament when there is a New Testament in force. I'll change "Testament" to "covenant" is it is accurate and will make my point more clearly.
Jesus introduced the New Covenant. The reason was simple: the old covenant was ineffective. It's easy to tell people what to do. The problem is not with the instructions, but with human nature. People are proud and rebellious by nature. The law proves that to be true.
Lord Jesus handed down the Law to Moses. He knew exactly how Israel would respond. So Lord Jesus came to bring grace to the lost world.
As Mailman has already said, John 6: 28 & 29
"Then they inquired, “What must we do to perform the works of God?” Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.”
"Believe in" is not an intellectual acceptance of facts. It means to place your trust and confidence in that person. The only trust and confidence I have in myself is that I can sin and fail. My confidence in Jesus includes that He is everything that God requires me to but that I cannot be.
Jesus introduced the New Covenant. The reason was simple: the old covenant was ineffective. It's easy to tell people what to do. The problem is not with the instructions, but with human nature. People are proud and rebellious by nature. The law proves that to be true.
Lord Jesus handed down the Law to Moses. He knew exactly how Israel would respond. So Lord Jesus came to bring grace to the lost world.
As Mailman has already said, John 6: 28 & 29
"Then they inquired, “What must we do to perform the works of God?” Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.”
"Believe in" is not an intellectual acceptance of facts. It means to place your trust and confidence in that person. The only trust and confidence I have in myself is that I can sin and fail. My confidence in Jesus includes that He is everything that God requires me to but that I cannot be.
That's what the false teachers claim as they teach the darkened wisdom of man as though it were the wisdom of God which is leading others in to the ditch.
Those that disobey God's Word are not obeying the gospel and as such the wrath of God abides upon them as they reject the Lord by following carnal man made religion rather then the Lord. Provided courtesy of the catholics and the reformers.
2 Thessalonians 1:7,8 - And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ
2 Thessalonians 2:10 - And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
That's what the false teachers claim as they are ignorant and blinded to the whole counsel of God.
When the future gets here we'll see who ends up where. It's going to be really bad for the fake grace peeps.
It doesn't take much to be miles ahead of the fake grace peeps that's for sure.
I asked you if you do it perfectly. Not if you do it better than others,
do you?
rom 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
thks
rom 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.Not if you teach salvation by works and sinless perfection.
thks
ps 23:3 Thy rod & Thy staff!
((faith & morals))
not faith alone!
also
ps 23:3
paths of righteousness for His name sake.
what's His names sake?
Mt 1:21
And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
mt 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Lk 1:68-69
68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
His name sake is eternal salvation!
the path of righteousness leads to eternal salvation!
thks
Faith is alive in Christ on arrival (Ephesians 2:5-8) and does not remain without obedience. (Ephesians 2:10) The kind of faith without obedience and is dead on arrival is an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains alone "barren of works." (James 2:14) That is not genuine faith but a bare profession of faith.
If salvation through faith + obedience/works was the gospel they simply would have added:
"and obedience"
or
"and works"
Yet in Romans 5:1, we read - Therefore, having been justified by faith, (and obedience? NO and works? NO) we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith (and obedience? NO and works? NO) into this grace in which we stand and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Also, in Ephesians 2:8-9, we read - For by grace you have been saved through faith, (and obedience? NO and works? NO) and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, (absolutely by works so go ahead and boast? NO) not of works, lest anyone should boast.
You "shoehorn" obedience/works "into" salvation through faith, not works.
Why would asking, seeking and knocking be works of merit? These all precede coming to place our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. It's works that you "add" to salvation through faith (works which follows having been saved through faith) that become works of merit.
Mailmandan is simply taking a generality and building a theology around it.
Nothing more.
And this is proof that you are doing the same.
There is much more to the gospel besides "Believe in".
You just ignore it because it does not fit your narrative.
Romans 5:18 - Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous. 20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, 21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Try not to confuse how one becomes saved (by grace through faith - Ephesians 2:8) with how the saved conduct their lives (morals). The narrow way is through Jesus Christ alone. (John 3:18; 10:9; 14:6; Acts 4:12; Romans 3:24-26; 4:5-6; 5:1 etc..). Faith in Jesus Christ alone.
Acts 15:7 - And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and BELIEVE. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who BELIEVES, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.
1 Corinthians 15:1 - Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures.
1 Corinthians 1:18 - For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE.
2 Corinthians 4:3 - But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which BELIEVE NOT, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
John 8:31-32
31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”Would you shoehorn "alone" into this passage?
Let me guess...no.
Unless you hold to His teachings (a work) you will never know the truth.
This is the blindness of your faith alone regeneration theology.
Here is the post 322 exchange..."
It seem that you prefer disobedience...(I hope I am reading that wrong).
Obedience is the natural fruit of rebirth from God's seed.
Those opposed to obedience to God and His Son, seem to be unregenerated.
And are still bearing the devil's fruit."
What witness of any sort is in that ?
Faith cometh by hearing, (Rom 10:17), so your order is not correct.
And being dead in tresspasses and sins doesn't make a man deaf to a new way of life.
The dead can be reborn of God's seed !
It is a choice provide by God to everyone.
Every single convert to Christianity was once dead in trespasses and sins.
The true converts have been regenerated thru baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of those past sins, and also raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.
Thanks be to God for making that choice available to all mankind !
What we teach is that PERFECT obedience is not required for salvation. If I fail, I don't lose my salvation. Failure is not indicative of a loss of faith or salvation.
As I just stated, the ultimate aim of the doctrine you present is the abolishment of obdience to God...starting with repentnace from sin and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
I suppose rebirth is also on their agenda ?
I am glad of that, so you must realize the penalty for not serving God.
The obedience of converts is the result of belief in God's graceful power to change us from dead in trespasses and sin, to alive in Christ Jesus.
That change comes via faith that God's gifts of repentance from sin and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins can effectivly transform us from lovers of wickedness to lovers of Godliness.
Absolutely, as my faith in God's gracefully provided tools of regeneration, allow we to remain completely faithful to Him.
