Obedience REQUIRED
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Red Herring is a logical fallacy. It means you're trying to change the subject. Now, back to my question. It sounds like you're bearing false witness against me.
When a person sins they become separated from the Lord having reaped corruption
To say this is not true is to mock God according to Gal 6:7,8 which tells us when we sow to the flesh we reap corruption.
This is why the Lord put 1 John 1:9 in telling us if, IF we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us and CLEANSE US FROM ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS which is what happens to us when we sin, we reap corruption which is unrighteousness
At that point they must confess and forsake their sin to be back in right standing with the Lord.
Yes, this is key remaining faithful to the Lord as in continuing to abide In Christ.
Some people think they are abiding in Christ even when they sin which is not true.
Who said anything about being obedient outside of the Lord?
Only those abiding in Christ can be obedient.
Salvation is only applicable to those who obey the Lord.
Hebrews 5:9 - And being made perfect, He became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey Him
If one is not obeying the Lord then by default they are in obedience to the devil.
It's too bad that some seem to think we can turn away from the Lord and be obedient to the devil and still be saved.
If a person is obedient with their spirit, soul, and mind (understanding) then they won't be allowing their body to be doing sin.
Romans 12:1 - I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
1 Corinthians 6:20 - For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
It works for me. I love Jesus, I am born again, my life is full because I know Him to be my life right now. Too many believers think that they have to suppress the bad and strive to be good. That is a recipe for failure and defeat. I learned the secret: "for me to live is Christ..."
Only those who are born again can see the kingdom of God. Catholic understanding of being born again is unbiblical. It's not a process. Either you are born again or you are not. I don't know if you are RC or not, but you come across as if you are. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Apparently we speak different languages. Grace and Peace.
The Passage you cited is talking about sowing. I didn't say anything about sowing.
it's not a vending machine.
Yes, it is true. To say otherwise is not to understand grace.
Were Zacharias and Elisabeth abiding in Christ? No. Were they blameless? Yes.
Jesus is perfect, not us.
Who believes that? I've never heard such a thing.
Wrong. Ever read Romans 7?
As I won't be able to say "I am saved" until I find my name is in the book of life, what are you basing your self-status on exactly ?
What accusation ?
The gospel isn't something you obey, as this is the gospel..."Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:" (1 Cor 15:1-4)
Not much to obey there.
Perhaps you meant, obey the commandments of the Lord and of His disciples for your conversion and to live a Godly life thereafter ?
Which seems a little ironic, given the title of the OP.
I'll follow the bibles directives, like..."But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another," (1 John 1:7)
And..."And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." (1 John 2:3-6)
And..."And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him." (1 John 2:28-29)
Read it again.
I am glad you have returned to a favorable position on obedience being necessary for salvation.
Misinterpretations of scripture often rob men of the duty to collaborate with God for our own wellbeing.
By assigning everything to God, you make men mere puppets.
I beleive that God, through Jesus Christ, has provided everything we need to be raised to eternal life on the day of judgement.
But we have our part to do, ie., hearing, believing, and actually changing our sinful-self-centered ways to Godly ways of life.
God provided the means of being reborn, getting baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins; whereby we are immersed into Christ and into His death, burial, and are raised with Him to walk innewness of life.
Reborn from God's seed !
He certainly won't understand the deeper teachings, but I feel everyman knows he must turn from sin to find favor, and a relationship with God.
As the only works ever written about-in the bible- are the works of the Law, I have no problem being obedient to that which God has seen fit to keep being presented for 2000 plus years.
Repent from sinning.
Get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins. (And to destroy the old man so the new creature can be reborn)
Do this and you will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Makes me think of 1 John 2:4-5..."He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him."
We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” So, we obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) by trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. Have you obeyed the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel or are you too busy trusting in your imperfect obedience (works) as the means of your salvation?
Are you trusting in obeying commandments and living a Godly life thereafter as the means of your salvation or are you trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the means of your salvation? Faith in self or faith in Christ?
1 John 1:6 - If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
*Walking in darkness is DESCRIPTIVE of children of the devil. Walking in the light is DESCRIPTIVE of children of God.
*Only those who are saved/born again believers are in the light.
Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.
2 Corinthians 6:14 - Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?
Ephesians 5:8 - for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light. Children of the devil walk in darkness, not in the light. Children of God walk in the light, not in darkness. IF confirms these positions in verses 6 and 7. It's one or the other.
What do you believe it means to "keep" (Greek word - tereo) His commandments?
The Greek word for “abide” is "meno" which means to remain, tarry, not to depart, continue to be present. This is not something that only super saints do but all born again Christians. 1 John 4:13 - By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit... 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.
Walking is a metaphor for a person's daily lifestyle, behavior and choices. To walk as Jesus walked is to walk in love, honesty, compassion, humility and obedience to God, which is 'descriptive' only of those who are born of God. (1 John 3:9-10) This does not mean we are sinless and flawless (1 John 1:8-10) just like Jesus. (Hebrews 4:15; 1 Peter 2:22) Everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him. (1 John 3:10)
You continue to confuse 'descriptive' passages of scripture into 'prescriptive' passages of scripture because you teach performance-based works salvation instead of salvation by grace through faith, not works.
Again, you try to shift the focus to human compliance just to distract from Jesus Christ alone as the complete Savior. You state that assigning everything to God makes men puppets but that we must collaborate with God for eternal life. You clearly deny and misrepresent what Scripture explicitly states. Ephesians 2:1 and 2:5 tell us in no uncertain terms that there is no action whatsoever contributed by man between the two extremes of being spiritually dead and being made spiritually alive - that it is all by God alone. A dead corpse is not a puppet; it is dead. A dead person cannot collaborate with God to help save himself.
You claim that every man knows how to find favor by his own turning and compliance. 1 Corinthians 1:19-20 clearly and specifically states otherwise by saying: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent... hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?" In God's eyes, your trust in religious collaboration for salvation is foolishness. Further, 2 Corinthians 1:19-20 states that ALL of the promises of God are not yea and nay, but in Christ they are Yea and Amen. These promises are found only in Christ not by man, and as 1 Corinthians 1:30 tells us, it is God alone who places a person in Christ by His own power. Salvation is not a conditional contract that depends on man's ongoing performance; it is a finalized certainty guaranteed by a complete Savior. It was a contract undertaken and completed exclusively between God the Father, and the God Son, Jesus Christ Savior, without any contribution to it from man to it except to be its recipients for those so chosen.
You also claim that a physical water ritual is what destroys the old man and causes regeneration. 2 Corinthians 1:21 states that God alone establishes and anoints us in Christ by His own sovereign power - earthly water cannot buy grace or make alive the dead - it is only a symbol. Your entire problem is that you simply do not comprehend or believe what Savior means, or that that Savior is Jesus Christ, even though it is promulgated throughout all of Scripture. You need to study and come to terms with that foundational truth to gain correct understanding. By claiming salvation is a conditional trade based on your own choices, baptism, and performance, you make Christ into a failed Savior who is subjective to man, and man's willpower the singular deciding factor.
Amazingrace, if the grace that brings salvation is purchased by humility, then it isn't grace: grace is its own beginning and end. You are trying to turn man's supposed humility into an earthly performance used to buy a free gift. 1 Corinthians 1:19-20 clearly states that God will destroy the wisdom of the wise and bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Trying to trade man's compliance for grace is part of the world's wisdom that God makes foolish. Further, 2 Corinthians 1:19-20 states that the promises of God are not yea and nay, but in Christ they are ALL Yea and Amen and it is God alone who places someone "in Christ". Salvation is a certainty that was achieved by a complete and perfect Savior, Jesus Christ, not a conditional contract that depends on man's ongoing humility as one of its stipulations. It is not possible for a dead corpse in Adam to manufacture its own humility to grant spiritual life. True spiritual humility is the effect of God granting salvation and quickening a dead heart; it is never the cause of it. 1 Peter 5:5 when understood in context is an exhortation to living sheep regarding church feeding, oversight, and fellowship, not a checklist for a dead man to get born again.
If one sows to the flesh they reap corruption meaning when a person sins they become corrupt.
Seedtime and harvest is the operating system of the Kingdom of God.
They must confess and forsake their sin to be back in right standing with the Lord.
And the false grace teachers keep claiming when a person sins it's all good because they lie claiming all future sins have already been forgiven which is why so many Christiana are living in sin. Why wouldn't they live in sin after being taught any sin they commit is already forgiven?
Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 6:1,2
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
The reformers must ignore or otherwise explain away / reject passages like this since it doesn't fit their carnal man made religious beliefs. Rather than telling people the whole counsel of God they are required to tickle people's ear and tell them only what they want to hear.
I got that, but I didn't say anything about sowing to the flesh.
Of course, I didn't say otherwise.
I disagree. People don't live in sin because they think all their sins are forgiven. People live in sin because their hearts are darkened and they make excuses and rationalizations for the satisfaction of their desires.
Why would they care?
The answer to your objection is found in the rest of Romans chapter 6.