Obedience REQUIRED

[ScooterJackson]

I got that, but I didn't say anything about sowing to the flesh.

But the Lord does in His Word which you should be paying attention do concerning sin and what sin brings upon a person

People don't live in sin because they think all their sins are forgiven

Christians all over the place are doing exactly that. If Christianity became illegal most Christians could not be convicted due to a lack of evidence that they are Christians.

People live in sin because their hearts are darkened and they make excuses and rationalizations for the satisfaction of their desires.

And because the false grace teachers tell them that all future sins have already been forgiven claiming they are still saved even if they live in sin, and now we have all these Christians living in sin. It's thew end times falling the Lord warned about.

Why would they care?

Most don't which is why it's hard to tell the difference between most Christians and people out in the world that never knew God

The answer to your objection is found in the rest of Romans chapter 6.

Couple of questions:

#1 - What are to claiming my objection is?
#2 - Specifically, what part of Romans 6 are you speaking of?

 

[mailmandan]

And the false grace teachers keep claiming when a person sins it's all good because they lie claiming all future sins have already been forgiven which is why so many Christiana are living in sin. Why wouldn't they live in sin after being taught any sin they commit is already forgiven?

You need to stop confusing false teachers/ungodly men who pervert the grace of God into a license for immortality with genuine Christians who do not practice sin but practice righteousness. (1 John 3:9-10) Practicing sin is to live in sin. Your arguments culminate in slander against genuine Christians.

Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jude is exhorting believers to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints (vs. 3) because certain ungodly men have crept in unnoticed. Jude further describes these ungodly men as ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit. (vs. 19) In contrast with those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and PRESERVED in Jesus Christ. (vs. 1)

Romans 6:1,2
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Paul uses a strong possible denial translated "God forbid!" He argues that a true Christian has "died" to the ruling power of sin, making it a contradiction to keep living in sin/practicing sin which would be one's lifestyle or bent of life.

 

[ScooterJackson]

Your arguments culminate in slander against genuine Christians.

Genuine Christians don't go around claiming they were born sinners and they sin every day in thought word and deed claiming it's not possible to cease from sinning like the reformers are doing.

So what I need to do is continue following the whole counsel of God and continue to warn others about the false teachings of the tares which is what the majority of churches are now as well as majority of popular preachers who are all tickling people's ears with carnal man made religious teachings courtesy of the devil.

Jude is exhorting believers to contend earnestly for the faith

And the reformers will tell you this is work based salvation and those contending for the faith are trying to earn their salvation.

Paul uses a strong possible denial translated "God forbid!" He argues that a true Christian has "died" to the ruling power of sin, making it a contradiction to keep living in sin/practicing sin which would be one's lifestyle or bent of life.

And yet the reformers continue claiming they were born sinners and they sin every day in thought word and deed claiming it's not possible to cease from sin as the deceive as many as possible with their fake gospel.

 

[Lamar]

It works for me. I love Jesus, I am born again, my life is full because I know Him to be my life right now. Too many believers think that they have to suppress the bad and strive to be good. That is a recipe for failure and defeat. I learned the secret: "for me to live is Christ..."

Your present condition may suit you well, but being in a state of comfort about your situation does not equate to being right with God. This is true for all of us. Too many believers think that their sentiments or sensibilities is evidence of a correct standing with God. This is a mentality doomed to defeat. I have learned to trust the Bible in all things regardless of my circumstances: "for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day".

Only those who are born again can see the kingdom of God. Catholic understanding of being born again is unbiblical. It's not a process. Either you are born again or you are not. I don't know if you are RC or not, but you come across as if you are. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Luke 17:21 - no one will say, “See here! ” or “There! ” For you see, the kingdom of God is in your midst.’

New Age Christianity which emphasizing feelings and the esoteric is unscriptural. Either you are biblically born again or you are not. Feeling that your are born again will led many to the same fate of those who cried out "Lord, Lord did we not". I don't know if you are New Age or not, but you come across as if you are. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, I am most certainly not RC. I am a member of the church of Christ. Romans 16:16

 

[pinebeach]

Genuine Christians don't go around claiming they were born sinners and they sin every day in thought word and deed claiming it's not possible to cease from sinning like the reformers are doing.

So what I need to do is continue following the whole counsel of God and continue to warn others about the false teachings of the tares which is what the majority of churches are now as well as majority of popular preachers who are all tickling people's ears with carnal man made religious teachings courtesy of the devil.



And the reformers will tell you this is work based salvation and those contending for the faith are trying to earn their salvation.



And yet the reformers continue claiming they were born sinners and they sin every day in thought word and deed claiming it's not possible to cease from sin as the deceive as many as possible with their fake gospel.

Genuine Christians don't go around claiming they were born sinners and they sin every day in thought word and deed claiming it's not possible to cease from sinning like the reformers are doing.

That's garbage. No one has said or thinks that. I am not a 'reformed' believer so don't bother with the threats and rhetoric.

For someone who cannot righteously judge another and who has no power over life or death, you sure do make alot of noise.

People here have not claimed they practice sin. I would call false judgement and continuing in false judgement after you have
been correct by believers here using scripture and alot of patience with you, sin. It is you know.

I think you might consider reforming yourself as your are bringing the same judgement you are falsely trying to label others with,
upon yourself. Flinging false accusations with the abandon with which you have become well known for in this forum, is, perhaps and I think it could be true, God trying to get you to listen since you have so badly misnterpreted both scripture and the intents of
the hearts of others here.

Nothing you try to put on people who do not deserve your false words and judgements will stick. The Bible is clear on that. So, and sadly not that I think you will, you should put down that sword that is not the word you think it is, and stop your judging.

Is everyone who they say they are? Of course not. Are we all in agreement? No we are not. But you are not the judge of the heart
of any living being. Only God goes there.

Hebrews 4 12For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

13And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

Jesus the Great High Priest

14Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.

15For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.

16Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

 

[Roger316]

But the Lord does in His Word which you should be paying attention do concerning sin and what sin brings upon a person

I disagree. The Lord is not as concerned with Sin as you think. He is more interested in a person's inwardness with things like faith, wisdom, knowledge, humility, courage, love, confession, contrition, and mercy.

Christians all over the place are doing exactly that.

I doubt that.

And because the false grace teachers tell them that all future sins have already been forgiven claiming they are still saved even if they live in sin, and now we have all these Christians living in sin.

If they are living in sin, I doubt they were Christians in the first place.

It's thew end times falling the Lord warned about.

Living in sin is not a sign of living in the end times. People have lived in sin since Adam.

Most don't which is why it's hard to tell the difference between most Christians and people out in the world that never knew God

Again, I doubt that. Learn to tell the difference between ostensible belief and real belief. People claim all kinds of things about themselves that aren't true.

Couple of questions:

#1 - What are to claiming my objection is?
#2 - Specifically, what part of Romans 6 are you speaking of?

I don't understand question #1, With regard to your second question, I am talking about the first half of Romans 6, where Paul argues that a follower of Christ will not continue in sin because he has accepted the meaning of the cross, i.e. Christ died for my sins. What Christ got I deserved. It is impossible for anyone who has accepted that truth to continue to live in sin.

All you are doing is painting good Christians with a false narrative.

 

[Freed18]

We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” So, we obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) by trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. Have you obeyed the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel or are you too busy trusting in your imperfect obedience (works) as the means of your salvation?

I am surprised you would advocate for any works done to be saved.

Are you trusting in obeying commandments and living a Godly life thereafter as the means of your salvation or are you trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the means of your salvation? Faith in self or faith in Christ?

I belive that Jesus died for my sins, and that He was raised from the dead three days later.
I believe that by turning from sin and getting water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus, my old sins were washed away.
I believe that at my baptims, I was immersed into Jesus, into His death, burial, and resurrection; from whence I was raised with Him to walk in newness of life...a new creature reborn from God's seed and incapable of bringing forth the devil's fruit.

1 John 1:6 - If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

Amen.

*Walking in darkness is DESCRIPTIVE of children of the devil.

I agree, as Proverbs 4: 19 says..."The way of the wicked is as darkness: "
The way of the wicked, is sinful.

Walking in the light is DESCRIPTIVE of children of God.
*Only those who are saved/born again believers are in the light.

If by saved you mean converted, I agree.
I will say "I am saved" when I am raised to eternal life, as I have a long race yet to run.

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.
2 Corinthians 6:14 - Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?
Ephesians 5:8 - for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light. Children of the devil walk in darkness, not in the light. Children of God walk in the light, not in darkness. IF confirms these positions in verses 6 and 7. It's one or the other.
What do you believe it means to "keep" (Greek word - tereo) His commandments?

It means we must obey Jesus and His Father.

The Greek word for “abide” is "meno" which means to remain, tarry, not to depart, continue to be present. This is not something that only super saints do but all born again Christians. 1 John 4:13 - By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit... 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.

Walking is a metaphor for a person's daily lifestyle, behavior and choices. To walk as Jesus walked is to walk in love, honesty, compassion, humility and obedience to God, which is 'descriptive' only of those who are born of God. (1 John 3:9-10) This does not mean we are sinless and flawless (1 John 1:8-10) just like Jesus. (Hebrews 4:15; 1 Peter 2:22)

Yes, it does mean we are as righteous as Jesus is righteous.
It is written..."Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous." (1 John 3:6-7)
And..."If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him." (1 John 2:29)

Everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him. (1 John 3:10)

Everyoe that is righteous is born of Him.
Everyone that is not righteous has not been reborn of God's seed.

You continue to confuse 'descriptive' passages of scripture into 'prescriptive' passages of scripture because you teach performance-based works salvation instead of salvation by grace through faith, not works.

The only works written against are the works of the Mosaic Law.
The works Christians do, are impossible without the grace of God !
When a ,am/woman is lying or stealing, do they have any of God's grace in them ?
NO !

 

[Freed18]

Again, you try to shift the focus to human compliance just to distract from Jesus Christ alone as the complete Savior. You state that assigning everything to God makes men puppets but that we must collaborate with God for eternal life. You clearly deny and misrepresent what Scripture explicitly states. Ephesians 2:1 and 2:5 tell us in no uncertain terms that there is no action whatsoever contributed by man between the two extremes of being spiritually dead and being made spiritually alive - that it is all by God alone. A dead corpse is not a puppet; it is dead. A dead person cannot collaborate with God to help save himself.
You claim that every man knows how to find favor by his own turning and compliance. 1 Corinthians 1:19-20 clearly and specifically states otherwise by saying: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent... hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?" In God's eyes, your trust in religious collaboration for salvation is foolishness. Further, 2 Corinthians 1:19-20 states that ALL of the promises of God are not yea and nay, but in Christ they are Yea and Amen. These promises are found only in Christ not by man, and as 1 Corinthians 1:30 tells us, it is God alone who places a person in Christ by His own power. Salvation is not a conditional contract that depends on man's ongoing performance; it is a finalized certainty guaranteed by a complete Savior. It was a contract undertaken and completed exclusively between God the Father, and the God Son, Jesus Christ Savior, without any contribution to it from man to it except to be its recipients for those so chosen.
You also claim that a physical water ritual is what destroys the old man and causes regeneration. 2 Corinthians 1:21 states that God alone establishes and anoints us in Christ by His own sovereign power - earthly water cannot buy grace or make alive the dead - it is only a symbol. Your entire problem is that you simply do not comprehend or believe what Savior means, or that that Savior is Jesus Christ, even though it is promulgated throughout all of Scripture. You need to study and come to terms with that foundational truth to gain correct understanding. By claiming salvation is a conditional trade based on your own choices, baptism, and performance, you make Christ into a failed Savior who is subjective to man, and man's willpower the singular deciding factor.

I feel that your hyper-focus on a single aspect of salvation has blinded you to the other aspects of conversion and eventual salvation.
God has indeed done His part, through Jesus Christ.
Now, the ball is in our court.

 

[carbunculus]

I feel that your hyper-focus on a single aspect of salvation has blinded you to the other aspects of conversion and eventual salvation.
God has indeed done His part, through Jesus Christ.
Now, the ball is in our court.

Christianity is not a merit based religion, as if it it was you would have to throw out a high amount of of the lord's word and his finished work before the cross.
Our rest is in the lord's righteousness,. Because in that that we don't them struggle in trying achieve perfection.

I could actually go into a whole discussion about trying to achieve perfection and write a whole book on it, but for now even when you master one thing in your life, you then have to maintain it, and in Christianity overcoming sin can only be done through our advocate, as if we sin we have an advocate with our father, that advocate is Jesus, which means we can not save ourselves when we sin.


Listen merit based religions is all about performance
And for most part, all tho such people will not admit it, all there actually doing is balancing there bad deeds with good deeds.

Because true Christianity is about trusting on Jesus in what he achieved in life death and resurrection.

Christianity is not about trusting in our own morals, or about performance, now it may be you can trust in enjoying your own company, as I do, knowing that my grace is sufficient for me, as by grace we have been saved through faith, which was not of our own, which means his faith and his grace, because it is written, that when we sin we can not save ourselves and we need an advocate, and it is written the advocate is Jesus.

 

[mailmandan]

I am surprised you would advocate for any works done to be saved.

Choosing to believe the gospel is not a work that merits salvation. Through believing the gospel we are trusting in Another's work (Christ's death, burial and resurrection). Jesus Christ still gets 100% credit for our salvation.

I belive that Jesus died for my sins, and that He was raised from the dead three days later.

You believe that it "happened," but you don't believe in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation.

I believe that by turning from sin and getting water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus, my old sins were washed away.

So, no mention of believing in Him/believing the gospel/faith? Acts 10:43 - Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins. Acts 15:7 - And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Acts 2:38 must be read alongside verses like (Luke 24:47; Acts 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18) and consider the fact that forgiveness is explicitly tied to repentance/belief/faith and not water baptism.

Luke 24:47 - and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 5:31 - Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. *What happened to baptism?

Repentance and faith in Christ are two sides to the same coin. Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

The only logical and Biblical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18) *Perfect Harmony*

Salvation by sinless perfection and water baptism is a "different" gospel that culminates in salvation by works.

I believe that at my baptims, I was immersed into Jesus, into His death, burial, and resurrection; from whence I was raised with Him to walk in newness of life...a new creature reborn from God's seed and incapable of bringing forth the devil's fruit.

Spirit baptism is the reality, and water baptism is the picture of the reality. A symbol is not the reality but is a picture of the reality. You are trying to turn a symbol into a savior.

It means we must obey Jesus and His Father.

Must or will? Obedience is not forced or legalistic for those who are born of God. (1 John 3:7-10)

Yes, it does mean we are as righteous as Jesus is righteous.

Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

Philippians 3:9 - and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith.

It is written..."Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous." (1 John 3:6-7)
And..."If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that everyone that doeth righteousness is born of him." (1 John 2:29)

In regard to 1 John 3:6, in Greek, the verb tense for "sinning" is in the present continuous tense, which means to keep on or practicing sin an ongoing lifestyle of sin and not mere occasional acts of sin. This does not mean that Christians achieve sinless perfection as John earlier notes in 1 John 1:8-10. If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us and if we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

1 John 3:6 (AMP) - No one who abides in Him [who remains united in fellowship with Him—deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] practices sin. No one who habitually sins has seen Him or known Him.

In regard to 1 John 3:7, those who practice righteousness do so BECAUSE they are righteous and not in order to become righteous. This is not our own personal righteousness but the righteousness which is of God by faith/imputed righteousness. Practicing righteousness is the demonstrative evidence that we are children of God. (1 John 3:10)

Everyone that is righteous is born of Him.
Everyone that is not righteous has not been reborn of God's seed.

1 John 3:7-10.

The only works written against are the works of the Mosaic Law.

The Mosaic Law also covers the moral aspect of the law which includes good works. (Leviticus 19:18; Deuteronomy 6:5; Matthew 22:37-40; James 2:15-16) So, not saved by works is not exclusive only to specific works of the law but also includes works in general. Abraham was before the law and the work of offering up his son on the altar did not cause him to be accounted as righteous. (Romans 4:2-3) Paul also said we are not saved by works of righteousness (literally works done in righteousness) which we have done but according to His mercy He saved us.. and in 2 Timothy 1:9, Paul said that He saved us and called us with a holy calling not according to our works.. Sorry to burst your bubble but there will be no boasting for you.

The works Christians do, are impossible without the grace of God!
When a ,am/woman is lying or stealing, do they have any of God's grace in them?
NO!

Salvation and good works are impossible without the grace of God. (Ephesians 2:8-10)

Romans 11:6 - But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

2 Timothy 1:9 - who has saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity.

 

[carbunculus]

John 3:7–10 (ESV)
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. 8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works

Why people only see this one way i don't know, but I guess many people believe it's addressed to everyone, or that they forget it was spoken to an individual, where that person felt and understood the meaning,

More often than not it's hard to get a full understanding of what was actual meant in meaning with an author of any book, unless you make a really good connection, it's why sometimes you can read a book rally quickly and other times you may need re read a chapter 3 or 4 times,

With the bible it's more like hundreds of times, and even then you may miss a meaning.

Ita like speaking to a loved one, they fully understand the warning behind the sentence, but you don't need to explain the warning to them, because they know your heart.

And we see this all the time in the scriptures. We can see the possible warnings in the scriptures but we don't have the said warning completely spelt out.

But no matter, this scripture could be jesus talking to somebody he has just saved where by the warning is just as much for the person he has just saved as it is for the person who needs saving.

As nobody will be free from sinning untill the lord returns.

obedience is now required to take notice

 

[mailmandan]

Christianity is not a merit-based religion.
Listen merit-based religions is all about performance.
Because true Christianity is about trusting on Jesus in what he achieved in life death and resurrection.
Christianity is not about trusting in our own morals, or about performance.

That sums it right up! I will never forget when I finally came to receive Jesus Christ through faith and was saved several years ago, it's like a bright light came on and I felt like I just woke up from a delusional, self righteous coma. Immediately it all came back to me from over the years people who shared the gospel with me but it went right over my head prior to my conversion. Right after I was saved, I remember saying to myself, "oh that's what he meant, that's what she was trying to tell me, that's what they were trying to share with me." Praise God! I finally get it! It's all about Jesus Christ. Then I said to myself, "the real test is PRIDE!"

Folks who subscribe to merit-based religion/performance-based works salvation are full of pride and are seeking credit for salvation.

 

[carbunculus]

That sums it right up! I will never forget when I finally came to receive Jesus Christ through faith and was saved several years ago, it's like a bright light came on and I felt like I just woke up from a delusional, self righteous coma. Immediately it all came back to me from over the years people who shared the gospel with me but it went right over my head prior to my conversion. Right after I was saved, I remember saying to myself, "oh that's what he meant, that's what she was trying to tell me, that's what they were trying to share with me." Praise God! I finally get it! It's all about Jesus Christ. Then I said to myself, "the real test is PRIDE!"

Folks who subscribe to merit-based religion/performance-based works salvation are full of pride and are seeking credit for salvation.

Make sure you post this to everyone

 

[carbunculus]

Make sure you post this to everyone

Had to do something then, hence the short reply, I wonder when people read the scripture, that after a person has been set free from the darkness, the darkness can return with an army to reclaim it terrority do people view that then as your being asked to keep your house in order they realise it's a friendly warning then, or do those anti once saved lot go the same way there too and start getting mouthy and threatening that if you don't keep your house in order, your this that and the other.

Hmm

 

[rogerg]

I feel that your hyper-focus on a single aspect of salvation has blinded you to the other aspects of conversion and eventual salvation.
God has indeed done His part, through Jesus Christ.
Now, the ball is in our court.

Huh? "Hyper-focus on a single aspect of salvation"? lol. Really? Actually, there is only one single "aspect of salvation", and that is God THE (singular) Savior who (singularly) saves His people - that's it - nothing more to it than that and is the gospel's whole focus and foundation - a very simple and straight-forward concept, indeed. Why do you think 1 Co 3:11 tells us, "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ, and Mat 1:21 "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins". Do you actually understand what those verses are saying? They say that as THE (singular) Savior, and as salvation's (singular) foundation, there is nothing else that can be laid outside of that (singular) foundation of Jesus Christ, THE (singular) Savior- nothing else- because there is NO OTHER WAY besides Christ, which, according to your belief, is exactly what you are trying to do - trying to lay another foundation - with another savior - making salvation by man instead of exclusively by God. Your post demonstrates - as I have told you repeatedly - that you are completely incapable - at least as of now -of comprehending what "Savior" actually means, and that Jesus Christ alone is both that God and that Savior and man is not.
You've demonstrated that you are completely incapable of comprehending, the gospel's singular, most fundamental, and important aspect, instead, desiring to turn it into a work of man instead of a work of God. Obviously, it is your prerogative to "feel" how you want, but that doesn't mean your feeling according to Scripture isn't totally, completely, and unequivocally wrong, which it is. Again, I strongly suggest you spend your time reading Scripture without preconceived interpretations. and focus closely on the (singular) Savior- try to comprehend what the doctrine of a (singular)Savior is/means according to Scripture alone, and what it is that Jesus as THE (singular) Savior accomplished.