I made a new bible translation and ask for feedback

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Well Watchman ...let's not continue to post each other. I do not see how there would be any common ground, you are steeped in ... more about yourself, I. think? Let's just agree to disagree an disngage ... let me know, though, when you really want to talk about the Pauline epistles ... text variants, the grammar, and the word usage ... real discussions, that sort of stuff.

I don't honor myself, but I do honor my gifted instructor. He amassed the largest collection of biblical manuscripts in private hands behind the Vatican. He set the bar on the study of Pauline epistles. The fact you feel threatened somehow by his sound number one rule of translating is telling. His wife took his mantle and the collection, and like him is fluent in all the ancient languages. There's nobody even in the same hemisphere with her teachings.

Missed opportunity RWR.
 
Is the Grace you find within the message from Paul why you don't go to Church according to your profile?

The Church set up by Paul that's similar to the ancient Synagogue was ultimately designed by God Himself. Both have a Shepherd and a flock. Within the flock there are many different roles but they all work together pointing everyone to God.

I do enjoy the entire Bible from both Covenants because one foretells of things to come and the other confirms the other one. All together they paint a complete picture of Yeshua.
You avoided the question?
You'd have to show me, how you are reading the Pauline epistles, in order to come to your "synagogue" conclusions ...?
And, you'd have to clarify what you intend, when you say "church" ...?

But again, you are sort of missing what I am doing with the scriptures; that is, I am not attempting to compile some doctrines or "how to" and "what not" and "who is" and "where at" ... What I am trying to do, is very simple ... I am just trying to prepare my paint palette, the vital surface upon which I hold, arrange, and mix the paints ... Only then, will I ever attempt to actually paint the colors on canvas.
You, apparently, have already painted yours ...
 
You avoided the question?
You'd have to show me, how you are reading the Pauline epistles, in order to come to your "synagogue" conclusions ...?
And, you'd have to clarify what you intend, when you say "church" ...?
Paul's Letters give great detail to the structure of new Church in the Corinthians Letters and provide more structure in his letters to Timothy.
But again, you are sort of missing what I am doing with the scriptures; that is, I am not attempting to compile some doctrines or "how to" and "what not" and "who is" and "where at" ... What I am trying to do, is very simple ... I am just trying to prepare my paint palette, the vital surface upon which I hold, arrange, and mix the paints ... Only then, will I ever attempt to actually paint the colors on canvas.
You, apparently, have already painted yours ...
It reads like you are taking a few specifics from each Letter and grouping them together as one unified message. But I don't believe that's how God nor Paul intended it to be done. So tell me what have you concluded by doing as such? Is it just Grace or Grace + something else?
 
Paul's Letters give great detail to the structure of new Church in the Corinthians Letters and provide more structure in his letters to Timothy.

It reads like you are taking a few specifics from each Letter and grouping them together as one unified message. But I don't believe that's how God nor Paul intended it to be done. So tell me what have you concluded by doing as such? Is it just Grace or Grace + something else?
Your question is sort of senseless .. But I will attempt to answer it, unlike you ... not answering my questions ... You mention the letters to Timothy ( there is one, to Titus as well; these are called the Pastorals) ... you and I will have to agree to agree about these Pastorals; that is, I am of the conclusion (after much research), that they are fraudulent; that is, were not written by Paul ... and since they claim to have been written by Paul, then that taints the whole lot ... That is, don't try to base anything on these epistles, when you are trying to convince me of something ... it's a lost cause, if you do. So then, with the chaff out of the way ... Yes, the Corinthians letters could be used to support some sort of corporate churchy type of creation ... You'd have to really work at it, but you might be able to cobble together something? Me ... I will leave that matter up to God, and Christ ... They know who they have out-called, and they know what such a grouping would look like ... I'll levae all of that to Them, jut knowing that I am, indeed, a part of it ... whatever form it really takes.
.
Now then, you ask a good question ... you surprised me! .. "Is it just Grace or Grace + something else?"

It's a vauguly worded question, allowing you to jump off in any tangent ... but I will take the liberty of thinking that you just might be asking ... "What is grace?" ... Am I close ... tell me when I get near?
 
Your question is sort of senseless .. But I will attempt to answer it, unlike you ... not answering my questions ... You mention the letters to Timothy ( there is one, to Titus as well; these are called the Pastorals) ... you and I will have to agree to agree about these Pastorals; that is, I am of the conclusion (after much research), that they are fraudulent; that is, were not written by Paul ... and since they claim to have been written by Paul, then that taints the whole lot ... That is, don't try to base anything on these epistles, when you are trying to convince me of something ... it's a lost cause, if you do. So then, with the chaff out of the way ... Yes, the Corinthians letters could be used to support some sort of corporate churchy type of creation ... You'd have to really work at it, but you might be able to cobble together something? Me ... I will leave that matter up to God, and Christ ... They know who they have out-called, and they know what such a grouping would look like ... I'll levae all of that to Them, jut knowing that I am, indeed, a part of it ... whatever form it really takes.
.
Now then, you ask a good question ... you surprised me! .. "Is it just Grace or Grace + something else?"

It's a vauguly worded question, allowing you to jump off in any tangent ... but I will take the liberty of thinking that you just might be asking ... "What is grace?" ... Am I close ... tell me when I get near?
Two fold question here after reading your response.

Number one, is are you claiming the 13 Letters normally believed to be written by Paul with a possibility of the addition to the Book of Hebrews not all were penned by Paul according to you?


Number two, how do you view the message from Paul completely?

Is it merely a continuation of Grace or does Paul establish any other viable beliefs and practices to the Church?
If so, how many should Paul be accredited for and which ones?
 
You mention the letters to Timothy ( there is one, to Titus as well; these are called the Pastorals) ... you and I will have to agree to agree about these Pastorals; that is, I am of the conclusion (after much research), that they are fraudulent; that is, were not written by Paul ... and since they claim to have been written by Paul, then that taints the whole lot ... That is, don't try to base anything on these epistles, when you are trying to convince me of something ... it's a lost cause, if you do. So then, with the chaff out of the way ... Yes, the Corinthians letters could be used to support some sort of corporate churchy type of creation ... You'd have to really work at it, but you might be able to cobble together something? Me ... I will leave that matter up to God, and Christ ... They know who they have out-called, and they know what such a grouping would look like ... I'll levae all of that to Them, jut knowing that I am, indeed, a part of it ... whatever form it really takes.
"You are free to reject the Pastorals if you wish, but simply declaring them fraudulent does not prove they are fraudulent.
If a letter truly belongs in Scripture, then removing it because it conflicts with a conclusion you have reached is not handling the evidence impartially.
As for the church, the Corinthians letters do not present some vague, undefined gathering known only to God.
They speak of identifiable assemblies, elders, discipline, communion, mutual edification, and believers meeting together.
Ultimately God does know those who are His, but Scripture also describes His people as a visible body that gathers, serves, and builds one another up."
 
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Your question is sort of senseless .. But I will attempt to answer it, unlike you ... not answering my questions ... You mention the letters to Timothy ( there is one, to Titus as well; these are called the Pastorals) ... you and I will have to agree to agree about these Pastorals; that is, I am of the conclusion (after much research), that they are fraudulent; that is, were not written by Paul ... and since they claim to have been written by Paul, then that taints the whole lot ... That is, don't try to base anything on these epistles, when you are trying to convince me of something ... it's a lost cause, if you do. So then, with the chaff out of the way ... Yes, the Corinthians letters could be used to support some sort of corporate churchy type of creation ... You'd have to really work at it, but you might be able to cobble together something? Me ... I will leave that matter up to God, and Christ ... They know who they have out-called, and they know what such a grouping would look like ... I'll levae all of that to Them, jut knowing that I am, indeed, a part of it ... whatever form it really takes.
.
Now then, you ask a good question ... you surprised me! .. "Is it just Grace or Grace + something else?"

It's a vauguly worded question, allowing you to jump off in any tangent ... but I will take the liberty of thinking that you just might be asking ... "What is grace?" ... Am I close ... tell me when I get near?
So who gets to decide which books (or chapters, or verses) in the bible are false? Which ones are true?
Only the ones you agree with can be true? Only the ones you disagree with are false?

You are on a high pedestal my friend. I hope you don't fall off.
 
So who gets to decide which books (or chapters, or verses) in the bible are false? Which ones are true?
Only the ones you agree with can be true? Only the ones you disagree with are false?

You are on a high pedestal my friend. I hope you don't fall off.
The high pedestal of what is and is not scripture was set by humans long ago, largely for political reasons and originally applicable only within the Roman Empire. Since then, changes have been made due to political, theological and financial reasons. Perhaps you are unaware that Martin Luther initially wanted to elevate the Apocrypha to the level of scripture but decided it could not qualify when he saw a single verse that he did not believe could possibly be scripture. Since Luther dismissed the Apocrypha the RCC accepted it. But Protestants kept the Apocrypha with all bibles until some publishers figured out that it would cost less to produce bibles without the extra pages, and so eliminated the Apocrypha.

As for the Pastorals being Pauline, there are ample arguments for or against, which arguments do you think hold more validity or do you merely accept them because they are in the Bible. Hebrews was declared Pauline to justify including it, but very few scholars believe that it is, are you familiar with the arguments regarding that work?

Defining what is and is not scripture is a messy task. Proving divine guidance or inspiration is impossible, it can only be done by an act of faith which then seeks justification for its decision, and some justifications fit the knowable facts better than others. Even interpretations of scripture are not definite, again some interpretations fit the knowable facts better than others, but in this regard, traditional interpretations tend to fall on the side of not fitting the available facts far more often than most people would like to admit.
 
I realy do not care much for the Hebrew scriptures ... And, I'd hazard the guess that you do not care that much for the Pauline epistles. Do we really have anything of note to say to each other ?
Jesus said “in the volume of the Book it is written of me”

Just what “Book” do You think He’s talking about if not the Hebrew one?



  • Psalm 40:7 (KJV): "Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me."
  • Hebrews 10:7 (KJV): "Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God."
 
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At https://thecanonicalbible.com/, I have translated the bible with the books listed in the canon in the form existing 397 CE into English, using the papyri and codices that are nowadays all digitized. In 397 the bible was only existing in ancient greek. All improvements later were however done differently by the various churches and denominations. So this is the english translation of the original "source code".
As I have done the collection of all fragments and the translation mostly by myself, as there are few christians interested enough in the "source code", please let me know of any mistakes I have made?

Thanks

Cay
By 397 AD the manuscripts and scriptures were in a disaster.
Without the Levites and their traditional methods of transcribing scriptures the New Testament was a train wreck.

Enter pope Damasus 1st commissioning Saint Jerome to collect, solidify, and acertain the correct scriptures precisely.
By 405 AD he completed the first Vulgate.
The manuscripts before that time were generally error filled and incomplete.

The ONLY manuscripts we have from the time period you mentioned is the Sianiaticus....and it is Greek...more specifically the Septuagint.
Where this is problematic is that long before even 30 AD the Septuagint had become a "evil" bible. (New Testament unwritten as yet) All the care and concern and accuracy traditions abandoned by the Levites in keeping the translation accurate even though those Jews in Diaspora still reading it with regularity.

However in Israel proper the Jews went to a new school program at the Synagogue city centers. Beth gas hep her. Where children learned to read and write Hebrew, formally learn of Israeli history and every aspect of proper Jewish life. (Theres a LOT more to this)


So....
My question is...

What manuscripts are you really using?
What translation service are you using?
What significant changes have you made to traditional translation methods?
(IYKYK)
 
The high pedestal of what is and is not scripture was set by humans long ago, largely for political reasons and originally applicable only within the Roman Empire. Since then, changes have been made due to political, theological and financial reasons. Perhaps you are unaware that Martin Luther initially wanted to elevate the Apocrypha to the level of scripture but decided it could not qualify when he saw a single verse that he did not believe could possibly be scripture. Since Luther dismissed the Apocrypha the RCC accepted it. But Protestants kept the Apocrypha with all bibles until some publishers figured out that it would cost less to produce bibles without the extra pages, and so eliminated the Apocrypha.

As for the Pastorals being Pauline, there are ample arguments for or against, which arguments do you think hold more validity or do you merely accept them because they are in the Bible. Hebrews was declared Pauline to justify including it, but very few scholars believe that it is, are you familiar with the arguments regarding that work?

Defining what is and is not scripture is a messy task. Proving divine guidance or inspiration is impossible, it can only be done by an act of faith which then seeks justification for its decision, and some justifications fit the knowable facts better than others. Even interpretations of scripture are not definite, again some interpretations fit the knowable facts better than others, but in this regard, traditional interpretations tend to fall on the side of not fitting the available facts far more often than most people would like to admit.
So you believe it is the beliefs of fallible human beings that are NOT omniscient are sufficient to determine which scriptures are true and which are false.
I think you should a closer look at that pedestal....
 
Your project is impressive, but the only honest way to evaluate mistakes in a translation of the Greek biblical corpus is to check your renderings against the actual LXX critical editions, the major uncials (especially Codex Sinaiticus, Codex Vaticanus, Codex Alexandrinus), and the standard lexica (LSJ, BDAG), because the text you posted from Genesis 1 shows you’re translating the Septuagint, but with several interpretive expansions (“invisible and unformed,” “borne over the water,” “come into being”) that reflect Brenton‑style English choices, not the raw Greek; the danger is that when you say you’ve translated “the original source code,” you’re implying the Greek of 397 CE was a single fixed text, but the manuscript tradition is plural, with variant readings, orthographic differences, and occasional lacunae, meaning any translation must disclose which base text it follows and how it resolves variants; without that apparatus, the mistakes aren’t in your English wording but in the assumption that the 397 CE canon existed as one uniform Greek Bible rather than a collection of manuscripts with differences, so the correction you need is methodological, not grammatical.
What's wrong with the Syriac?
The language went untranslated....like ever.
 
So you believe it is the beliefs of fallible human beings that are NOT omniscient are sufficient to determine which scriptures are true and which are false.
I think you should a closer look at that pedestal....
I believe that fallible humans decided what they would accept as scripture. I also believe that fallible humans decided how it was safe to understand scripture given their specific political situation. And after that point, which lasted safely over 250 years, some things had become "tradition" and who challenges tradition.

The evidence I look at (both in scripture and from other sources) indicates that for roughly the first 40 years of the church's existence the "good news" was that the evil ones (not to be named for political reasons) were about to be kicked to the curb once and for all. Then for roughly 250 years it was "we mean Satan and Sin as the evil ones, we are good Romans, don't persecute us". Following Nicaea, it became a question of defining who was eligible for money from the emperor, only those who agree with these specific points qualify. Then when the western portion of the empire fell, the Pope assumed authority, and the church in the still imperial east told him that he was a braggart and blowhard, leading to a split and differing traditions because the other group was clearly wrong. When Luther started the Reformation, he survived only because German princes found that he gave them justification for ignoring the Pope and becoming politically free from papal domination.

Now this is very simplified, but do you see a divine hand guiding the process or just human egos and desires? Either is possible, I am inclined to go with human egos and desires, it explains the early misunderstandings far better.
 
What's wrong with the Syriac?
The language went untranslated....like ever.
There's nothing inherently wrong with the Syriac.
The issue is the same one I raised about the Greek: which Syriac text are we talking about, what manuscripts preserve it, and how do we know its readings are original?
The Peshitta is an important witness to the biblical text, and textual critics regularly consult it, but it is still a witness to the text, not automatically the final court of appeal.
Every manuscript tradition, whether Greek, Syriac, Latin, Coptic, or otherwise, has to be evaluated as part of the larger textual history.

I would also push back on the statement that Syriac "went untranslated."
The Peshitta has been translated into English multiple times, and Syriac scholars have produced grammars, lexicons, interlinears, and critical editions for centuries.
The real question is not whether Syriac has been translated, but whether a Syriac reading should be preferred over the Greek manuscript tradition in a specific passage. That has to be argued case by case.

So my point isn't that Greek is automatically right and Syriac automatically wrong.
My point is methodological: if someone claims to have recovered the original text or "source code" from the Syriac, they still need to show why that Syriac reading is superior to the Greek, Latin, Coptic, and other textual witnesses.
The appeal to Syriac by itself does not settle the question any more than an appeal to Greek by itself would
 
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There's nothing inherently wrong with the Syriac.
The issue is the same one I raised about the Greek: which Syriac text are we talking about, what manuscripts preserve it, and how do we know its readings are original?
The Peshitta is an important witness to the biblical text, and textual critics regularly consult it, but it is still a witness to the text, not automatically the final court of appeal.
Every manuscript tradition, whether Greek, Syriac, Latin, Coptic, or otherwise, has to be evaluated as part of the larger textual history.

I would also push back on the statement that Syriac "went untranslated."
The Peshitta has been translated into English multiple times, and Syriac scholars have produced grammars, lexicons, interlinears, and critical editions for centuries.
The real question is not whether Syriac has been translated, but whether a Syriac reading should be preferred over the Greek manuscript tradition in a specific passage. That has to be argued case by case.

So my point isn't that Greek is automatically right and Syriac automatically wrong.
My point is methodological: if someone claims to have recovered the original text or "source code" from the Syriac, they still need to show why that Syriac reading is superior to the Greek, Latin, Coptic, and other textual witnesses.
The appeal to Syriac by itself does not settle the question any more than an appeal to Greek by itself would
Accuracy of modern bibles is extremely high....especially considering the age of the texts....kinda ridiculous how accurate it is vx its age and how much people argue over the texts....

Especially since no change has ever created a significant theological schism..
The ONLY possibility of that happening is the "Born from Above" vx "Born Again" marketing strategy from half a century ago. Where Calvinism is dying it does not really figure into this passage anyway. Its just a matter of "winds of doctrine" like the prayer of Jabez was in the '80's or '90's....can't remember it came and went that fast.
I mean how many people can force "again/anew" meaning into anothen without destroying the Greek language completely...because in every other ancient text it means "above" or "upper" and not how it is often currently translated.

Getting away from tradition is going to be a difficult process.

However,
The question remains about John 8. Are we going to place it back into Mark where it belongs or just delete it altogether?
 
Accuracy of modern bibles is extremely high....especially considering the age of the texts....kinda ridiculous how accurate it is vx its age and how much people argue over the texts....

Especially since no change has ever created a significant theological schism..
The ONLY possibility of that happening is the "Born from Above" vx "Born Again" marketing strategy from half a century ago. Where Calvinism is dying it does not really figure into this passage anyway. Its just a matter of "winds of doctrine" like the prayer of Jabez was in the '80's or '90's....can't remember it came and went that fast.
I mean how many people can force "again/anew" meaning into anothen without destroying the Greek language completely...because in every other ancient text it means "above" or "upper" and not how it is often currently translated.

Getting away from tradition is going to be a difficult process.

However,
The question remains about John 8. Are we going to place it back into Mark where it belongs or just delete it altogether?
John 8 and the Syriac question are two very different issues.

The evidence for the overall accuracy of the New Testament text is indeed remarkably strong.
We possess thousands of Greek manuscripts, along with ancient translations in Syriac, Latin, Coptic, and citations from the church fathers. Most textual variants are minor and do not affect any core Christian doctrine. On that point, I largely agree.

However, the claim that anōthen can only mean "from above" is overstated.
In John's Gospel the word carries a deliberate double meaning.
Nicodemus understands Jesus as speaking of being born a second time, which is why he asks how a man can enter his mother's womb again.
Jesus then clarifies that the new birth is from the Spirit.
John's style is full of such misunderstandings where a hearer takes Jesus one way while Jesus means something deeper.
So the debate is not destroying Greek.
It is a question of which nuance John intended to emphasize in that passage.

As for John 7:53-8:11, the woman caught in adultery, that is a separate textual issue.
The passage is absent from many of the earliest Greek manuscripts and appears in different locations in some manuscript traditions. Some manuscripts place it after Luke 21:38, while others keep it in John.
Because of that evidence, most textual critics conclude it was not originally part of John's Gospel.
But that does not automatically mean it belonged in Mark.
If someone wishes to move it into Mark, the burden of proof is on them to show manuscript evidence placing it there.
Otherwise the choices are either to retain it with a note explaining the manuscript evidence or to regard it as an early authentic Christian tradition that was later inserted into John's Gospel.

So I think my methodological point stands: appeals to Greek alone do not settle the issue, but neither do appeals to Syriac alone.
The question is always, "What does the total manuscript evidence show?"
A reading is not original simply because it is Greek, Syriac, or Latin. It must be supported by the evidence.
 
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John 8 and the Syriac question are two very different issues.
Just having a conversation with someone i thought was capable of holding it with a sufficient knowledge base to hold it adequately.


However, the claim that anōthen can only mean "from above" is overstated.
In John's Gospel the word carries a deliberate double meaning.
Nicodemus understands Jesus as speaking of being born a second time, which is why he asks how a man can enter his mother's womb again.
Jesus then clarifies that the new birth is from the Spirit.
John's style is full of such misunderstandings where a hearer takes Jesus one way while Jesus means something deeper.
So the debate is not destroying Greek.
It is a question of which nuance John intended to emphasize in that passage.
You are absolutely unqualified to discuss this matter. You absolutely do not know what you are talking about. You only know what your biblical textbooks tell you...but that is still from INSIDE TRADITION and not from truth...theres a whole nutter critter at play here that you are unacquainted with...because you have been taught inside of the bounds of tradition.

There's no possible way a Caste-based society did not further categorize people....and the particular group you do NOT know is the "Born from Above" group. Like the "Put Away Wives" group is is not exactly a very popular subject. But they existed too. How about the Essenes? Gonna claim they didn't exist either because they are not listed in scriptures? How about the specific edict that caused the surge in Hellenistic Jews to move back to Israel? Gonna claim that doesn't exist either?

When you actually know the subject matter I'm discussing THEN chime in. But be careful....read what I write carefully before assuming you know more or that you have sufficient knowledge to actually challenge what I've written. I don't need another lesson from the traditional view...I've had that for over 60 years now thanx.
What you have to do is go to some secular Koine Greek and especially Early Latin sources to prove that those unbiblical writers used "anothen" in a similar fashion that TRADITION THINKS John did and cite them specifically. (You will never be able to do it because of several reasons...)


And John 8 passage belongs in Mark for a LOT OF REASONS and NOT Luke because of stylistic writing..
We call that internal evidence.
Just in case you don't know.
And it belongs somewhere....
Do you know where in Mark?
Do you know what Jesus wrote in the dirt?
(I and the other scholars do know for fairly certain)
Hint: bad guesses will make you look even more incompetent.
 
Just having a conversation with someone i thought was capable of holding it with a sufficient knowledge base to hold it adequately.



You are absolutely unqualified to discuss this matter. You absolutely do not know what you are talking about. You only know what your biblical textbooks tell you...but that is still from INSIDE TRADITION and not from truth...theres a whole nutter critter at play here that you are unacquainted with...because you have been taught inside of the bounds of tradition.

There's no possible way a Caste-based society did not further categorize people....and the particular group you do NOT know is the "Born from Above" group. Like the "Put Away Wives" group is is not exactly a very popular subject. But they existed too. How about the Essenes? Gonna claim they didn't exist either because they are not listed in scriptures? How about the specific edict that caused the surge in Hellenistic Jews to move back to Israel? Gonna claim that doesn't exist either?

When you actually know the subject matter I'm discussing THEN chime in. But be careful....read what I write carefully before assuming you know more or that you have sufficient knowledge to actually challenge what I've written. I don't need another lesson from the traditional view...I've had that for over 60 years now thanx.
What you have to do is go to some secular Koine Greek and especially Early Latin sources to prove that those unbiblical writers used "anothen" in a similar fashion that TRADITION THINKS John did and cite them specifically. (You will never be able to do it because of several reasons...)


And John 8 passage belongs in Mark for a LOT OF REASONS and NOT Luke because of stylistic writing..
We call that internal evidence.
Just in case you don't know.
And it belongs somewhere....
Do you know where in Mark?
Do you know what Jesus wrote in the dirt?
(I and the other scholars do know for fairly certain)
Hint: bad guesses will make you look even more incompetent.
I don't think that response actually engages the argument I made.
I never claimed that a particular social group could not have existed, nor did I deny the existence of the Essenes, Hellenistic Jews, or various cultural distinctions within Second Temple Judaism.
The question is much narrower: what evidence do we have that John intended ἄνωθεν (anōthen) in John 3 to function as a technical label for a recognized "Born From Above" caste or social category?

The reason I pointed to the double meaning is not because a textbook told me to.
It is because the text itself records Nicodemus misunderstanding Jesus in terms of physical birth, and John repeatedly uses that literary pattern throughout his Gospel.
If there is external evidence that anōthen was used as a recognized title for a specific group, then that evidence should be presented and evaluated.
But the existence of unknown historical data is not itself evidence that John intended that meaning.

Likewise, with the woman caught in adultery, I have no objection to discussing internal evidence, manuscript history, or possible placements of the pericope.
Those are legitimate subjects.
But saying, "other scholars know where it belongs," or "we know what Jesus wrote in the dirt," is not an argument unless the evidence itself is put on the table.

So my position remains simple: show the textual, historical, or linguistic evidence for the proposed meaning, and let's examine it.
The issue is not tradition versus truth.
The issue is whether the proposed interpretation can be demonstrated from evidence rather than asserted as hidden knowledge unavailable to everyone outside a particular reconstruction.
 
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