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Revelation1v8 said:
Your problem is that you're not looking at the bigger picture.

While we are all CURRENTLY considered one in Jesus Christ SPIRITUALLY, it has not reached its FULL consummation yet and won't until everything that's been prophesied on earth happens and God/Jesus carries us into the New Jerusalem/Heaven. That's WHEN we'll see everyone physically & literally becoming one true body living together in eternal peace. When God becomes "all in all" like 1 Corinthians 15:28 says. But Jesus has to reign over the earth until He places ALL of His enemies under His feet. That won't happen until after the Millennial Kingdom period is over and God/Jesus throws Satan, Hell, and Death into the Lake of Fire like Revelation 20 tells you.

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Revelation1v8,

You have conceded the entire structural argument by attempting to split Christ's Body into a "current spiritual reality" and a "future physical reality." By trying to wedge a carnal, literalistic Millennial Kingdom between the Cross and the Final Consummation, you create an impossible theological timeline that flatly contradicts the very texts you cited.


Let's look at the absolute Amillennial and High-Calvinist math of 1 Corinthians 15 and Revelation 20 to see why your "bigger picture" is an exegetical failure:

1. The Timing of His Reign and the Destruction of Death (1 Cor 15:25–26)
You argue that Jesus must reign over a future earthly millennium until He places all enemies under His feet, and that physical unity doesn't happen until after that.

Look at Paul's exact sequence in 1 Corinthians 15:25-26:

“For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.”
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When is death destroyed? Verse 23 tells us explicitly: “afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.”
  • The Amillennial Reality: When Christ returns, the physical resurrection of the elect occurs. This is the exact moment Death is swallowed up in victory (v. 54).
  • The Legal Trap for your Timeline: If Death is the last enemy, and Death is destroyed at His coming via the resurrection, then no enemies can be put under His feet AFTER His coming. His coming marks the immediate, complete destruction of His final enemy. Therefore, His reign until His enemies are subdued is happening right now from His heavenly throne, not in a future carnal millennium.

2. The Absolute Finality of the "Last Day" Harvest

You claim that we will see everyone physically become one body only after a millennial kingdom period is over. This completely wrecks the timeline Martha laid down and Christ endorsed in John 11:24: "I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day."

If the elect are raised at the literal Last Day, there are no days left to run a thousand-year earthly kingdom. The resurrection of the entire elect Body—the complete harvest of the true Israel after the Spirit—happens in a single cosmic moment when Christ returns. As 1 Corinthians 15:52 states, it happens "in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump." There is no intermediate dispensational gap between the last trump and eternity.

3. John Gill on Christ's Present Sovereignty and "All in All" (1 Cor 15:28)

Your view that Christ's body is fractured or waiting for a carnal kingdom to achieve literal unity is thoroughly dismantled by John Gill in his exposition of 1 Corinthians 15:25 and 28. Gill proves that Christ’s kingdom is a spiritual, celestial reality running now from heaven, culminating directly in the eternal state without an earthly detour:

"He must reign... He is now reigning in heaven, at his Father's right hand, and will reign... till all the elect are gathered in, and all his enemies are subdued... Then, when the whole body of the elect is complete, God will be all in all, displaying His glory directly to the saints without the need of intervening types or carnal kingdoms."
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According to Gill, Christ is not waiting for a future milestone to make His people "physically one body." They are legally one body at the Cross (Phase II), vitally made one in time through regeneration (Phase III), and will be fully and physically manifested as one identical body at His immediate return (Phase V: Glorification).

4. Revelation 20: The Spiritual Binding and the Spiritual Resurrection

You cite Revelation 20 as if it demands a literal, carnal timeline on this present dirt. But as an Amillennialist, I maintain that Revelation 20 describes the exact same pattern of salvation we have been tracking from first to last:
  • The Binding of Satan: This was accomplished legally and spiritually by Christ at His first advent (Matthew 12:29, Colossians 2:15) to ensure that the gospel could go out to draw the elect Gentiles into the one Olive Tree (John 12:32).
  • The First Resurrection (Rev 20:5-6): This is not a physical resurrection of a select group of bodies before a millennium. This is the Vital Phase (Phase III: Regeneration)! It is the soul being made alive by the Effectual Call. Those who partake of this new birth are eternally secure; the second death (the Lake of Fire) has no legal claim over them because their names are written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world (Phase I).

The Inescapable Conclusion= You been deceived !

Your "bigger picture" requires a fragmented Christ who has a spiritually unified body now, but who somehow needs a literalistic, political kingdom on a cursed earth to make them "physically one."

Scripture allows no such division. The moment the fullness of the Gentiles comes in (Romans 11:25) and the elect remnant of Israel is quickened (Romans 11:26), the singular Body is complete. When the Deliverer comes out of Zion, time ends, the wicked are cast into the Lake of Fire, and the unified, glorified Church instantly enters the New Jerusalem. There is one Head, one Covenant, one Olive Tree, and one simultaneous physical harvest at the Last Day.

 
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brightfame52 said:
Revelation1v8,

You have conceded the entire structural argument by attempting to split Christ's Body into a "current spiritual reality" and a "future physical reality." By trying to wedge a carnal, literalistic Millennial Kingdom between the Cross and the Final Consummation, you create an impossible theological timeline that flatly contradicts the very texts you cited.


Let's look at the absolute Amillennial and High-Calvinist math of 1 Corinthians 15 and Revelation 20 to see why your "bigger picture" is an exegetical failure:

1. The Timing of His Reign and the Destruction of Death (1 Cor 15:25–26)
You argue that Jesus must reign over a future earthly millennium until He places all enemies under His feet, and that physical unity doesn't happen until after that.

Look at Paul's exact sequence in 1 Corinthians 15:25-26:


When is death destroyed? Verse 23 tells us explicitly: “afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.”
  • The Amillennial Reality: When Christ returns, the physical resurrection of the elect occurs. This is the exact moment Death is swallowed up in victory (v. 54).
  • The Legal Trap for your Timeline: If Death is the last enemy, and Death is destroyed at His coming via the resurrection, then no enemies can be put under His feet AFTER His coming. His coming marks the immediate, complete destruction of His final enemy. Therefore, His reign until His enemies are subdued is happening right now from His heavenly throne, not in a future carnal millennium.
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Where did you get the idea that DEATH WAS DESTROYED at His Coming? Death became "swallowed up in victory" as there are currently people living in Heaven waiting for everything else to play out on the earth, but that doesn't mean that death has been destroyed yet because people are still living, dying, and going to heaven or hell. Once EVERYONE is judged and they are living in their PERMANENT residences, then DEATH WILL BE DESTROYED. Until then, the Bible shows you that there are still going to be people, living, dying, and reproducing on the earth during the Millennial Kingdom period. DEATH WON'T BE DESTROYED until after Satan has been destroyed and thrown into the Lake of Fire.

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brightfame52 said:
4. Revelation 20: The Spiritual Binding and the Spiritual Resurrection

You cite Revelation 20 as if it demands a literal, carnal timeline on this present dirt. But as an Amillennialist, I maintain that Revelation 20 describes the exact same pattern of salvation we have been tracking from first to last:
  • The Binding of Satan: This was accomplished legally and spiritually by Christ at His first advent (Matthew 12:29, Colossians 2:15) to ensure that the gospel could go out to draw the elect Gentiles into the one Olive Tree (John 12:32).
  • The First Resurrection (Rev 20:5-6): This is not a physical resurrection of a select group of bodies before a millennium. This is the Vital Phase (Phase III: Regeneration)! It is the soul being made alive by the Effectual Call. Those who partake of this new birth are eternally secure; the second death (the Lake of Fire) has no legal claim over them because their names are written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world (Phase I).
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AGAIN, Satan hasn't been bound to the Abyss yet in order to keep him from "deceiving the nations". Look around, smell the coffee, and wake up!

Once Satan is bound into the Abyss (Revelation 20) then God/Jesus will reign physically over the earth "and He will rule them with a rod of iron" (look it up). The Millennial Kingdom period will be a relative time of peace for Israel, but they will still have enemies and when Satan is released from the Abyss (after the 1,000 years are over), he will gather them all together ONE LAST TIME for the FINAL battle of Gog & Magog.

THEN, God/Jesus will stop Satan and his final army with fire and judge him, throwing Him into the Lake of Fire.

Go do some research on the Millennial Kingdom in the Bible. There is more mentioned in the Bible about it than Heaven itself. You just don't realize it because you're confused.

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Revelation1v8 said:
Where did you get the idea that DEATH WAS DESTROYED at His Coming? Death became "swallowed up in victory" as there are currently people living in Heaven waiting for everything else to play out on the earth, but that doesn't mean that death has been destroyed yet because people are still living, dying, and going to heaven or hell. Once EVERYONE is judged and they are living in their PERMANENT residences, then DEATH WILL BE DESTROYED. Until then, the Bible shows you that there are still going to be people, living, dying, and reproducing on the earth during the Millennial Kingdom period. DEATH WON'T BE DESTROYED until after Satan has been destroyed and thrown into the Lake of Fire.

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There is no need for the back and forth, you are deceived.
 
brightfame52 said:
You believe a fable, not the scriptures.
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You just need to study the scriptures a little better. Unfortunately, most Christians never make it past the New Testament, when they should have been reading the Old Testament along with it.

I just answered someone else in another thread with some information that may/may not become helpful to you in understanding how the Bible was written and what God's sovereign plan and purpose was for Israel and the seed of Isaac along with where Christians and the Gentile nations fit in with His overall plan for salvation:

The biblical emphasis on the firstborn stems from ancient Near Eastern customs where the eldest son received a double portion of inheritance and served as the family's leader and priest (Deuteronomy 21:17; Genesis 49:3). In the Torah, this status required consecration to God, leading to the pidyon haben ritual where firstborn sons were symbolically redeemed from divine ownership (Exodus 13:2). Israel itself is designated God’s "firstborn" (Exodus 4:22) to signify its privileged covenantal relationship and preeminence among nations.

Jesus and the New Testament writers use the "second born over first born" theme (seen in figures like Isaac, Jacob, and Joseph) to illustrate that spiritual blessing is determined by divine election and faith, not biological priority. This pattern highlights that the younger or chosen line often carries the covenant promise, challenging traditional expectations of birthright. Theologically, this signifies that Christians are the "second born" or spiritual offspring who inherit the blessing through grace, while Jesus is termed the "firstborn of all creation" (Colossians 1:15) to denote his supreme authority and preeminence rather than literal birth order.

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Revelation1v8 said:
Where did you get the idea that DEATH WAS DESTROYED at His Coming? Death became "swallowed up in victory" as there are currently people living in Heaven waiting for everything else to play out on the earth, but that doesn't mean that death has been destroyed yet because people are still living, dying, and going to heaven or hell. Once EVERYONE is judged and they are living in their PERMANENT residences, then DEATH WILL BE DESTROYED. Until then, the Bible shows you that there are still going to be people, living, dying, and reproducing on the earth during the Millennial Kingdom period. DEATH WON'T BE DESTROYED until after Satan has been destroyed and thrown into the Lake of Fire.

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This is exactly correct.
 
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brightfame52 said:
All that because you deceived.
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You're only deceiving yourself. I don't think you ever responded to my earlier statement that I don't believe you understand how Jesus is God. And if you did, I still don't think you understand it.

Isaiah 44:6 - Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

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Revelation1v8 said:
You're only deceiving yourself. I don't think you ever responded to my earlier statement that I don't believe you understand how Jesus is God. And if you did, I still don't think you understand it.

Isaiah 44:6 - Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

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How many times do I need to tell you, that you are deceived?
 
The Identifying trait of the True Israel of God, the foreknown People of God, which is also Israel, is not ethnicity or genealogy according to the flesh, but Faith by the promise and power of God[ See Jn 1:13] She is not of the flesh, but of the Spirit.

The Nation of Israel was not a Nation made up of flesh, but is a Spiritual Nation made up of all those born of the Seed Christ, who is Abraham's seed to whom the Promises were made [ Gal 3:16], who is the one and only True Israel, God Prevails ! or He shall be a Prince of God ! Acts 5:31.

The Nation here in Ps 33:12

12 Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance.

This is not National Israel according to the flesh, that physical nation formed at Sinai, but this is a Spiritual Nation formed out of the Grace of the everlasting Covenant and it's blood. It's the Same Nation as described here in 1 Pet 2:9

9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

And who but those Chosen in Christ before the foundation as per Eph 1:4, are God's Inheritance as per Eph 1:18

18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

It is the Seed Christ that makes anyone of Israel; merely being of the physical descendants of the Fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, did not make one the True Israel of God [Rom 9:6-8], but no matter what ethnicity, if we belong to Christ [The Seed Gal 3:16] then are we in Israel that matters, for its only through Him that we are made that Holy Nation ! Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:


1. The Definitive Mechanism: Not of the Flesh, but of the Spirit (John 1:13)

The ultimate identifying trait of God's true covenant people is supernatural origin, not biological ancestry.
  • The Text: As John 1:13 explicitly states, the sons of God are born "not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."
  • The Exegesis: True Israel cannot be produced by human procreation, national privilege, or the independent, libertarian "will of man." It is a Spiritual Nation composed exclusively of those quickened by sovereign grace. Physical descent from the patriarchs never guaranteed true inclusion in the covenant. As Romans 9:6–8 declares: "They are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children... That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God."
2. The Singular Identity of the Seed: Christ is Israel (Galatians 3:16)

The entire concept of "Israel" is corporate and representative, narrowing down completely to a single Person before expanding to His elect body.
  • The Text: Galatians 3:16 states with absolute grammatical specificity: "Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ."
  • The Meaning: Christ Himself is the ultimate, singular Israel—the true "Prince of God" who prevails. In Acts 5:31, He is exalted as a Prince and a Savior. Therefore, no one can claim the title of "Israel" or inherit the promises of God apart from a vital union with Him. It is not ethnicity that makes one a citizen of this nation; it is being born of the Seed, Christ. If you belong to Christ, you are automatically Abraham’s seed and an heir according to the promise (Galatians 3:29).
3. Psalm 33:12 and 1 Peter 2:9 — The Inseparable Identity of the Chosen Nation

When Scripture speaks of a "blessed nation," it is a direct reference to the Church of the Elect, not the geo-political, physical nation formed at Sinai under a conditional covenant of works.

Scripture​
The Sovereign Description​
The Decretal Link​
Psalm 33:12
"Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance."
This points directly to the eternal, unconditional choice of God's people out of the everlasting covenant of grace.

1 Peter 2:9
"But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people..."
Peter directly hijacks the Old Testament national language and applies it to the global, multi-ethnic body of the elect who have been called out of darkness.
4. The Elect as God's Particular Inheritance (Ephesians 1:4, 18)

Your connection to Ephesians completely locks the door on any theory that suggests God has two distinct, separate peoples (one physical, one spiritual). God has one inheritance, and it was chosen before time began.
  • The Eternal Foundation: In Ephesians 1:4, the holiness of this nation is secured because He "hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world." Our holiness is a decretal guarantee, not a human contribution.
  • The Riches of His Glory: In Ephesians 1:18, Paul prays that we might know "what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints."
Conclusion: The True Israel Has Spoken


The physical nation of Israel at Sinai was a temporary, earthly shadow. The True Israel of God is an eternal, spiritual reality formed by the blood of the everlasting covenant. No matter a person's physical background or earthly ethnicity, if they are chosen in Christ (Phase I), redeemed by His blood (Phase II), and quickened by His Spirit (Phase III), they are citizens of that Holy Nation. To place covenant promises onto a Christ-rejecting, physical lineage according to the flesh is a direct assault on the finished work and singular supremacy of the true Seed, Jesus Christ. 6
 
@brightfame52,

What you fail to understand is that God/Jesus will be making saints clear up until "the age to come" and the Millennial Kingdom is over when He reigns over the earth from Jerusalem and before the new heaven and earth come into existence.

If you knew your Bible, which includes the Old Testament, you would see how God/Jesus turns the nation of Israel around, pours out His Spirit on a remnant of them and keeps them in the land like Zechariah 13 shows you to start that Millennial Kingdom and "the age to come" to produce those saints and grow even more all over again.

THEN, God/Jesus will put an end to Satan, Hell, and Death and place everyone in their permanent residences after He Has judged them at the Great White Throne Judgement like Revelation 20 says.

What's sad about your own commentary above, is that you don't even understand half of the Bible verses you post.

When the Bible mentions nations, it means nations. Let me show you what I am talking about using A.I. to show the scriptures where they are listed:

The Bible refers to literal nations during the Millennial Kingdom, though their composition and identity differ from the present era. The primary group entering this period are the survivors of the Tribulation, specifically the "sheep" (Gentiles) and the faithful remnant of Israel who survived the end-time judgments (Matthew 25:31-32; Joel 3:2). These individuals enter the Kingdom in their mortal bodies, retaining their national or ethnic identities, and will populate the earth, marrying and having children (Isaiah 2:2-4; Isaiah 60:1-3).

Scripture indicates that national distinctions and racial identity will persist into the Millennial Kingdom and beyond. While Jesus reigns as King from Jerusalem, the world remains divided into nations with Jesus as their benevolent ruler (Psalm 2:8; Daniel 7:14). Israel is expected to be reunited as a literal nation in its promised land, serving as a central spiritual and political hub, while other nations (such as Egypt, Assyria, and others mentioned in Isaiah and Jeremiah) will exist as distinct entities under Christ's authority (Micah 4:6-7; Isaiah 19:23-25).

  • Matthew 25:31-32 (NIV): "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats."
  • Joel 3:2 (NIV): "I will gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. There I will put them on trial for what they did to my inheritance, my people Israel, because they scattered my people among the nations and divided up my land."
  • Isaiah 2:2-4 (NIV): "In the last days the mountain of the LORD's temple will be established as the highest of the mountains; it will be exalted above the hills, and all nations will stream to it. Many people will come and say, 'Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths.' The word of the LORD will go out from Zion, the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. He will judge between the nations and will settle disputes for many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore."
  • Isaiah 60:1-3 (NIV): "Arise, shine, for your light has come, and the glory of the LORD rises upon you. See, darkness covers the earth and thick darkness is over the peoples, but the LORD rises upon you and his glory appears over you. Nations will come to your light, and kings to the brightness of your dawn."
  • Psalm 2:8 (NIV): "Ask me, and I will make the nations your inheritance, the ends of the earth your possession."
  • Daniel 7:14 (NIV): "He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom one that will never be destroyed."
  • Micah 4:6-7 (NIV): "At that time I will gather the lame; I will collect the exiles and take back my injured ones. I will set the lame as a remnant, those scattered as a strong nation. The LORD will rule over them in Zion from that day and forever."
  • Isaiah 19:23-25 (NIV): "In that day there will be a highway from Egypt to Assyria. The Assyrians will go into Egypt and the Egyptians into Assyria, and the Egyptians will worship with the Assyrians. In that day there will be an altar to the LORD in the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar to the LORD at its border. It will be a sign and a witness to the LORD Almighty in the land of Egypt, for when they cry to the LORD because of oppressors, he will send them the Savior and Mighty One, and he will protect them."

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The promise was to Abraham and to his descendants. There was no religion, just followers of God, he went with his wife and nephew and a few others possibly servants, slaves etc.…

There was no such thing as Jews that was invented around 6/7 century at best.

Jeremiah 31: 31 “The days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant

(That implies that the previous convent has been abrogated – if a forever / everlasting covenant then no need for a new covenant)


Leviticus 25:23 The land, moreover, shall **not be sold permanently,** for the land is Mine; for you are but aliens and sojourners with Me.

(land is temporary)


Matt 21:43 Therefore, say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

(taken away)


There is no pure blood line as Jews like to portray, the bible clearly shows conversion, mixed marriages and after destruction most converted to Christianity and thereafter Islam – your talking thousands of years of mixing.

Tamar Canaanite, Ruth Moabite, Boaz, was the son of a prostitute, Rahab, Bathsheba Hittie to name a few.

(Abraham was to have many nations – not 1 race of Jews)
 
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