Replacement theology? Yes or No.

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God-fearing said:
So according to your reasoning God failed to redeem his people....I'll leave that to you to tell him. He siad he would do it for his name sake. Guess his name remains marred forever.
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That is also key and I don't know if I ever posted the below in this thread or if I just posted it another, but I'm going to repost it anyway.

Here is why God/Jesus Chose to Redeem Israel and a Remnant of its People:

For the Sake of the Fathers:
  • Genesis 26:24 – "I am the God of your father Abraham; do not fear... I will bless you and multiply your descendants for My servant Abraham's sake."
  • Psalm 105:42 – "For He remembered His holy promise, And Abraham His servant," leading to the deliverance of Israel.
  • Luke 1:73 – Zechariah prophesies that God granted salvation "The oath which He swore to our father Abraham."
  • Deuteronomy 29:13 – God establishes His people "just as He has sworn to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob."
  • Isaiah 45:4 – "For the sake of my servant Jacob, and Israel my chosen, I call you by your name; I name you, though you do not know me."
  • 2 Kings 13:23 – "But the LORD was gracious to them and had compassion on them, and he turned toward them because of his covenant with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and would not destroy them, nor has he cast them from his presence until now."
  • Leviticus 26:42 – "Then I will remember the covenant with Jacob, my covenant with Isaac, and my covenant with Abraham, and I will remember the land."
  • Leviticus 26:45 – "But for their sake I will remember the covenant with their ancestors, whom I brought out from the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God. I am the LORD.
  • Isaiah 41:8–9 – "But you, Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, the offspring of Abraham my friend — I brought you from the ends of the earth... I have chosen you and not cast you off."
  • Ezekiel 16:60–63 – "I will remember the covenant I made with you in the days of your youth, and I will establish an everlasting covenant with you... I will establish my covenant with you, and you shall know that I am the LORD."

For God's Own Sake and His Name:

Here are the verses where God explicitly says He acts for Israel for His own sake — not for their merit, not for the patriarchs, but for His own name and holiness:

  • Ezekiel 36:22–23 – "It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations to which you came. And I will vindicate the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, and which you have profaned among them."
  • Isaiah 43:25 – "I, I am he who blots out your transgressions for my own sake, and I will not remember your sins."
  • 1 Samuel 12:22 – "For the Lord will not forsake his people, for his great name's sake, because it has pleased the Lord to make you a people for himself."
  • Ezekiel 20:9 – "But I acted for the sake of my name, that it should not be profaned in the sight of the nations among whom they lived, in whose sight I made myself known to them in bringing them out of the land of Egypt."
  • Isaiah 48:11 – "For my own sake, for my own sake I will do this; for how should my name be defiled? And I will not give my glory to another."
  • Ezekiel 20:41 – "For my own sake I will act, in order to vindicate the holiness of my great name, which was profaned among the nations, the name which you have profaned among them."
  • Ezekiel 38:23 – "I will vindicate the holiness of my great name, which the nations have profaned among them, and the nations will know that I am the Lord."
  • Psalm 79:9 – "Help us, O God of our salvation, for the glory of your name; deliver us, and atone for our sins, for your name's sake!"
  • Psalm 106:8 – "Yet he saved them for his name's sake, that he might make known his mighty power."
  • 2 Kings 19:34 / Isaiah 37:35 – "I will defend this city to save it, for my own sake and for the sake of my servant David."
  • Jeremiah 14:21 – "Do not abhor us, for your name's sake, do not disgrace the throne of your glory; remember, break not your covenant with us."
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Beekeeper said:
If you are trying to persuade me of the unconditionality of God's promises to Abraham it might not be too late to correct me.

God sealed all these promises Himself when Abraham was asleep, and in light of this when God says "Every man child among you shall be circumcised" we could justifiably understand this also to be one of those promises.
The fact that Abraham was required to obey does not conflict with the unconditionality of God's prediction, because through God given faith, Abraham DID obey.

The conditional national covenant of Moses is an entirely different covenant to that one however, and is not a continuation of it.
It is the foundation of national Israel, and it has been violated.

The covenant of Abraham does not offer any safety net for the temporal nation to fall on, but those who inherit the faith of Abraham and are obedient to the "condition" of the new covenant (of believing in Jesus) it offers citizenship in the everlasting spiritual nation.
This faith is likewise a gift of God to all who are children of the promise.
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Just a note I see nowhere in that passage that anyone is gifted faith, Abraham was counted as righteous based on his faith.

It is God's condition.
If God gifts faith, it seems that how dealt with Israel when they failed would be very inconsistent.
 
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HeIsHere said:
Just a note I see nowhere in that passage that anyone is gifted faith, Abraham was counted as righteous based on his faith.

It is God's condition.
If God gifts faith, it seems that how dealt with Israel when they failed would be very inconsistent.
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Abraham came from a pagan background.

Imagine today a Muslim, or Jewish guy, one day Jesus came to his dream, tell him to leave his family s belief, and accept Jesus as Lord and savior. This man next day woke up and start following Jesus, risking his entire life to follow Jesus.

This is the faith Abraham had, Paul had, many of us have, should have. God count it as righteous.
 
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Churchgoer said:
Abraham came from a pagan background.

Imagine today a Muslim, or Jewish guy, one day Jesus came to his dream, tell him to leave his family s belief, and accept Jesus as Lord and savior. This man next day woke up and start following Jesus, risking his entire life to follow Jesus.

This is the faith Abraham had, Paul had, many of us have, should have. God count it as righteous.
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Yes some people believe upon hearing the Good News and other do not, some risk a lot and others very little, but we are all born able to believe.
 
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HeIsHere said:
Yes some people believe upon hearing the Good News and other do not, some risk a lot and others very little, but we are all born able to believe.
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Yes.
A young Jewish man came to our church, became a fervent believer, wherever he goes, he invite people to Bible study with him.
Last I heard he was becoming a pastor.
Trust in Jesus alone, the time is now.
 
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Churchgoer said:
Yes.
A young Jewish man came to our church, became a fervent believer, wherever he goes, he invite people to Bible study with him.
Last I heard he was becoming a pastor.
Trust in Jesus alone, the time is now.
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The time is now for those God/Jesus chooses to reveal Himself, which will continue to happen throughout the history of the earth and its existence.

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God-fearing said:
So according to your reasoning God failed to redeem his people....I'll leave that to you to tell him. He siad he would do it for his name sake. Guess his name remains marred forever.
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My dear friend, you might consider that this motivation and intent is (and has been) their modus operandi for the entirety of this thread!
 
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Israel this Israel will face a hardship to come like no other no doubt. God who created Israel knows how to deal with them in the coming days.
I cannot express enough how God dealt with Israel is the same as we as Christians are dealt with in the same manner.
We are all a work in progress, and Jesus is faithful to complete the work he has started.
He being the author and finisher of our faith. By faith Abraham believed God.
Jesus said ...you believe in God believe in me also. This will happen. How and when is God's chosing.
What other nation, people besides Israel believes in the God of the Bible as we do.
We have been blessed to come to know the redeemer of Israel at a appointed time in our lives. And so it will be again with Israel.
 
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HeIsHere said:
The point is the everlasting salvation, each person has to believe in it, like everyone else.
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Isa 45:17
But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Luk 1:32
He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

Luk 1:33
And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
 
God-fearing said:
Israel this Israel will face a hardship to come like no other no doubt. God who created Israel knows how to deal with them in the coming days.
I cannot express enough how God dealt with Israel is the same as we as Christians are dealt with in the same manner.
We are all a work in progress, and Jesus is faithful to complete the work he has started.
He being the author and finisher of our faith. By faith Abraham believed God.
Jesus said ...you believe in God believe in me also. This will happen. How and when is God's chosing.
What other nation, people besides Israel believes in the God of the Bible as we do.
We have been blessed to come to know the redeemer of Israel at a appointed time in our lives. And so it will be again with Israel.
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It's funny because I just posted about the "appointed times" in another post in another thread. I'll copy and paste it here too. I don't think it's a coincidence that it happens in 3 phases or that it could happen over 3 millenniums (but I could be wrong):

Remember that verse in Ecclesiastes 3:1?

Here's the order in which it all plays out in the Bible:

Where the Phrase Lives in the Bible​

  • Ecclesiastes 3:1 (NASB): "There is an appointed time for everything, and a time for every event under heaven." — This is the primary locus. The Hebrew word is זְמָן (zeman), meaning "appointed time."
  • Ecclesiastes 3:11 reinforces it: "He has made everything beautiful in its time."
  • Acts 1:7 (Jesus speaking): "It is not for you to know the times or seasons that the Father has set by his own authority."
  • Galatians 4:4: "But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth his Son…"
  • Daniel 2:21: "He changes times and seasons; he removes kings and sets up kings."

Phase 1 — The Appointed Time for the Jews​

  • Genesis 12:1–3 — God's covenant with Abraham: a land, a seed, and a blessing to all nations through him.
  • Exodus 12:2 — The first month appointed; the Passover as the founding moed (appointed time).
  • Leviticus 23:1–44 — The seven moedim (appointed feasts) given to Israel: Passover, Unleavened Bread, Firstfruits, Pentecost, Trumpets, Atonement, Tabernacles.

Phase 2 — The Appointed Time for the Gentiles​

  • Daniel 2:31–45 — Nebuchadnezzar's image: four successive Gentile kingdoms (Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome) that will stand until the Son of Man shatters them.
  • Daniel 7:1–14 — Four beasts representing Gentile empires; dominion passes to the "Son of Man."
  • Daniel 8:9–14, 23–25 — The "little horn" and the "time, times, and half a time" of Gentile oppression.
  • Ezekiel 30:3 — "A time of doom for the nations" — the kairos of the Gentiles in connection with the Day of the LORD.
  • Luke 21:24 (Jesus): "Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled." — The explicit statement that a distinct Gentile era follows Israel's scattering.
  • Romans 11:25 (Paul): "A partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in." — The spiritual dimension: the Gospel goes to the Gentiles while Israel is in a "partial blindness."
  • Revelation 11:2 — "The outer court… has been given to the Gentiles, and they will trample the holy city for 42 months." — A final, intensified Gentile trampling before the end.

Phase 3 — The Appointed Time for the Jews Again​

  • Romans 11:26–27: "And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: 'The Deliverer will come from Zion, and will turn away ungodliness from Jacob.'" — The explicit promise that the Jewish phase resumes.
  • Isaiah 66:7–8: "Before she goes into labor, she gives birth… Can one bear in a single day? So I will cause all nations to be born at once." — Israel's "birth in a day" (widely linked to 1948).
  • Ezekiel 36:24–28 — God will gather Israel from the nations, give them a new heart, and put His Spirit within them.
  • Ezekiel 37:21–22 — The two sticks: Judah and Ephraim joined into one nation, one king.
  • Ezekiel 38–39 — The battle of Gog and Magog: Israel in the land, under siege, then supernaturally delivered.
  • Hosea 3:5: "Afterward the sons of Israel will return and seek the LORD their God… in the last days."
  • Zechariah 12:10: "They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and mourn… as the mourning for the only son." — National repentance at the Second Coming.
  • Zechariah 14:4–11 — The LORD's feet stand on the Mount of Olives; Jerusalem is inhabited and safe.
  • Joel 3:1–2: "In those days, when I bring back the captives of Judah, I will gather all nations… to the Valley of Jehoshaphat."
  • 2 Samuel 7:12–16 — The Davidic covenant: an eternal throne and kingdom.
  • Isaiah 2:2–4 — "In the last days the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established… and the law shall go forth from Zion."
  • Jeremiah 31:31–34 — A new covenant written on the hearts of Israel and Judah.
  • Daniel 9:24–27 — "Seventy weeks" (490 years) decided upon your people and your holy city — a time specifically cut off for the Jews.
The Combination — Jew and Gentile United
  • Ephesians 2:14–16 — Christ "has broken down the dividing wall… that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, thus making peace."
  • Romans 11:17–24 — The olive tree: Gentile branches grafted into the root of Israel.
  • Revelation 7:9 — "A great multitude from every nation, tribe, people, and language, standing before the throne."
  • Revelation 21:24 — "The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it." — The eternal state with no Jew/Gentile division.
Summary of the Three-Phase Sequence
  • Jews (OT covenant → Messiah's first coming) → Gentiles (church age / times of the Gentiles) → Jews again (national restoration, Ezekiel 38, Zechariah 12) → Combined (one body, one kingdom, eternal state).
 
Churchgoer said:
Then you have John 3.
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I doubt you understand that either.

John 3:4-5

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

1 John 5:7-8

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Now try to figure how it all fits together.

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HeIsHere said:
John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

Ethnicity never did, nor will it ever guarantee eternal life.
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Correct, always God centered, from ot to nt. Never ethnicity centered.

Blessings, sister.
 
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