Obedience REQUIRED

[Freed18]

if you getting baptised to be saved. yes those are dead works.

Despite Jesus' commandment ?

If you resist temptation to get saved, yes that is a dead work.
If your doing them because you are saved,, then they will produce fruit. and they will be living

As salvation won't be assured until the day of the resurrection, (and many people fall away before their own deaths), counting on our salvation before it occurs is pointless.
Has your already-achieved salvation kept you free from sinning ?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

If I walk in God-the light, (1 John 1:7), I will have no sins to confess.

true

but no one does that 24/7.. Thats why John said anyone who claims they have no sin is decieved.

John calls you decieved, not me

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Despite Jesus' commandment ?

Jesus gave us many commands

Non of them will get you saved.

Only God can save you, if you recieve his gift in faith..

As salvation won't be assured until the day of the resurrection, (and many people fall away before their own deaths), counting on our salvation before it occurs is pointless.
Has your already-achieved salvation kept you free from sinning ?

Keep tryign to earn salvation. Keep trying to replace the work of God with your works

You will not be saved in the end.

 

[Freed18]

true

but no one does that 24/7.. Thats why John said anyone who claims they have no sin is decieved.

I disagree, as God gave us the way to walk in the Spirit, I feel He also provided the way to do it permanently.

John calls you decieved, not me

John calls those who walk in darkness-sin and claiming obedience to God deceived.
Those who walk in the light-God are not deceived.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I disagree, as God gave us the way to walk in the Spirit, I feel He also provided the way to do it permanently.

He did not take away our flesh.

John calls those who walk in darkness-sin and claiming obedience to God deceived.
Those who walk in the light-God are not deceived.

No

John said if we claim we have no sin (as you are doing) we decieve ourselves and their is no truth in us (1 jhn 1: 8)

 

[Freed18]

Jesus gave us many commands

Non of them will get you saved.

That is a horrible answer.
Jesus said..."He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:16)

Only God can save you, if you recieve his gift in faith..

Why not also receive His gift of repentance from sin and baptism in His name for the remission of past sins too ?

Keep tryign to earn salvation. Keep trying to replace the work of God with your works

Thanks for the exhortation.
And my obedience, that some errantly call works, are commanded by God.

You will not be saved in the end.

If I don't obey God, I will not be saved on the day of judgement.

 

[Freed18]

He did not take away our flesh.

My skin and bones have no power to cause me to commit sin.
Why do your's ?

No
John said if we claim we have no sin (as you are doing) we decieve ourselves and their is no truth in us (1 jhn 1: 8)

A person would have to be a sinner in order for their claim of sinlessness to be a deception.
As there is no sin-darkness in the light-God, those in the light-God making the same claim, are not deceived.

I thank God for the gift of rebirth from His own seed, to allow me to remain in submission to Him.

 

[GWH]

No mate I've thought about your idea to, and I don't just lean on one idea.

I've taken it to God and waited, I've examined the meaning. I asked myself if someone responds under enabling grace is that not still classed as a requirement.

And the answer I get is no from reading scripture I believe enabling grace to be an prevenient grace and empowering work of the spirit, not some kind of rigid requirement as some would put it, as in a forced obligation, to produce a correct answer,

I see his enabling grace as a transformative gift, that may even be with a person for some time. That produces an internal willingness,

I see his grace as empowerment to empower a person to freely choose his ways without obligation, and with no legalistic demand


Gods grace I believe restores a persons freedom and choice,

Joshua 24:15

And if it seems evil to you to serve the lord choose this day to whom you will serve
But as fid me I will serve the lord.

This tell me all i need to know. As i believe Joshua was a child of God.

Not sure what you said “no” to, but the correct answer is that God graces everyone with the ability to choose whether to serve/satisfy Him or not—and accepting or cooperating with His will via saving faith is NOT meritorious.

Is this what you also believe?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

That is a horrible answer.
Jesus said..."He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:16)

its a great answer. Jesus said whoever sees and believes will be saved.

Mark 16 is the only one which says baptised.

Why not also receive His gift of repentance from sin and baptism in His name for the remission of past sins too ?

I repented and recieved the gift of the spirit. and because I recieved remission of sin, a year later I was baptized in water

Thanks for the exhortation.
And my obedience, that some errantly call works, are commanded by God.

Your trying to save yourself.

If I don't obey God, I will not be saved on the day of judgement.

well your not obeying God that I can see.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

My skin and bones have no power to cause me to commit sin.
Why do your's ?

the flesh is a term for your self will

A person would have to be a sinner in order for their claim of sinlessness to be a deception.
As there is no sin-darkness in the light-God, those in the light-God making the same claim, are not deceived.

I thank God for the gift of rebirth from His own seed, to allow me to remain in submission to Him.

John said if you claim to be without sin your are decieved

He said if he claimed to be without sin he was decieved.

try to listen to John, and not your flesh

 

[sawdust]

We do not have salvation, we have grace with the promise of salvation!

We have by the initial grace of justification union with God and His saints thru Christ that empowers our actions with grace unto eternal salvation!

Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

We fall in sin and are separated from God!

We stand in grace!


Romans 5:2

By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. (Stand in grace not salvation)

Thks

Are you still dead in your sins or have you been made alive in Christ?

Ephesians 2:5
even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

Romans 8:10
But if Christ is in you, although your bodies are dead because of sin, your spirits are alive because of righteousness.

We have been saved from (spiritual) death in that when we believed the Gospel, the power of salvation, Rom.1:16 we were born from above (ie.made spiritually alive) Jn.3:6. We are in the process of being saved from the "world" system ( a false system of pretend reality based on Satan's lies) through the transformation of our thinking by means of the truth, the Word is truth. Rom.12:2 This is the area a lot of people fail in, becoming nice moral people instead of the spiritual powerhouses that are able to stand against the evils of this world. We will be saved, that is, our bodies in the Resurrection of the dead when our mortal and corruptible bodies put on immortality and incorruptibility. 1Cor.15:51-53

The indwelling Holy Spirit resides in our bodies (because that is where the sin nature resides Rom.7:23 ) to make us a clean temple for the Lord 1Cor.6:19 and in our hearts as a seal (guarantee) of the final phase of salvation ie, the resurrection of our dead bodies. 2Cor.1:22 and Eph.4:30

In short, we have been saved (past tense) spiritually, our souls are being saved (present tense) and our bodies will be saved (and transformed - future tense).

The salvation that can be lost is the present one by grieving and/or quenching the Holy Spirit, for in that state one has fallen from grace (God's will and power at work in our lives to overcome 2Cor.12:9 ) and is out of fellowship but not cast out, for nothing in all creation can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus. Rom.8:39 Once a child of God, always a child of God. His Word causes it to happen now and guarantees it in the future and there is no greater assurance than His word.

 

[amazingrace]

Few find it because because back then the population wasn't as great but honestly I'm not sure if you take into this in to account
As it may be only a few on there own accord but not a few with the lord's help, what ys think batman

But then again you probably haven't, and you'll say a few means a few.

Do yourself a favour work out your own salvation before others and you clearly need help

My point was not who or how many but the fact that the narrow road leads to life (eternal salvation)

Not that we have eternal salvation that leads to the narrow road

You completely eliminate the virtue of hope

No one hopes for that which they already possess!

Three are eternal faith, hope, & charity not faith alone!

Thks

 

[amazingrace]

Amazingrace,
yes, I was saved two thousand years ago on the cross because that is exactly where Jesus Christ finished the transaction and paid the debt in full for ALL of His elect children - with nothing further required of them for salvation. Further, Ephesians 1:4 states clearly that He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world. For those who are saved, there salvation was decreed by God from eternity past and not dependent upon human performance. Your explicit claim that Ephesians 2 is not about those saved is a clear denial of the verses. Ephesians 2:8 states: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God." It describes a past completed action that provides permanent present spiritual security; it is not an invitation dependent on man's lifelong actions.
By claiming that the cross only provided general redemption that man must maintain by his own compliance in order to avoid falling out of grace, you are making a perfectly completed gift conditional. This makes Christ a co-savior along with man and Christ not the sole Savior that Scripture clearly tells us He is.

As I have already stated multiple times, you are dumping random lists of verses without putting down your own written interpretations of them on the record. Provide your exact written definition for every single passage you listed across your posts, and then we can proceed.

"It is finished" refers to the Passover sacrifice see Jn 1:29 &
1 cor 5:6=8

We participate with Christ

Colossians 1:24
Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

What lacking in the afflictions of Christ? Our participation!

That's why He says:

Luke 9:23
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

And
Phil 1:29

For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

HIS SAKE IS THE SALVATION OF SOULS!

Thks

 

[amazingrace]

Few find it because few are trusting in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. (John 3:18; 10:9; 14:6) Sadly, many are trusting in works for salvation. Either we are trusting 100% in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) or else we are 100% lost. (1 Corinthians 1:18-21; 2 Corinthians 4:3,4)

100% never shows up in Scripture!

Jn 15:1=6 union with Christ bears fruit!

Not faith alone!

Lk 8:15;But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

Not faith alone!

 

[amazingrace]

Amazingrace,
yes, I was saved two thousand years ago on the cross because that is exactly where Jesus Christ finished the transaction and paid the debt in full for ALL of His elect children - with nothing further required of them for salvation. Further, Ephesians 1:4 states clearly that He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world. For those who are saved, there salvation was decreed by God from eternity past and not dependent upon human performance. Your explicit claim that Ephesians 2 is not about those saved is a clear denial of the verses. Ephesians 2:8 states: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God." It describes a past completed action that provides permanent present spiritual security; it is not an invitation dependent on man's lifelong actions.
By claiming that the cross only provided general redemption that man must maintain by his own compliance in order to avoid falling out of grace, you are making a perfectly completed gift conditional. This makes Christ a co-savior along with man and Christ not the sole Savior that Scripture clearly tells us He is.

As I have already stated multiple times, you are dumping random lists of verses without putting down your own written interpretations of them on the record. Provide your exact written definition for every single passage you listed across your posts, and then we can proceed.

In that case all men must be saved?

 

[carbunculus]

My point was not who or how many but the fact that the narrow road leads to life (eternal salvation)

Not that we have eternal salvation teterbal salvation is at the end of the road hat leads to the narrow road

You completely eliminate the virtue of hope

No one hopes for that which they already possess!

Three are eternal faith, hope, & charity not faith alone!

Thks

I'm not sure what your getting at but it sounds like your, saying eternal salvation is at the end of the road and you hope all the way through the road,

Wel if that brings you comfort and makes you happy, then walk on

I swear a legions to Grace alone Christ alone Faith alone. Amen

 

[amazingrace]

Are you still dead in your sins or have you been made alive in Christ?

Ephesians 2:5
even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

Romans 8:10
But if Christ is in you, although your bodies are dead because of sin, your spirits are alive because of righteousness.

We have been saved from (spiritual) death in that when we believed the Gospel, the power of salvation, Rom.1:16 we were born from above (ie.made spiritually alive) Jn.3:6. We are in the process of being saved from the "world" system ( a false system of pretend reality based on Satan's lies) through the transformation of our thinking by means of the truth, the Word is truth. Rom.12:2 This is the area a lot of people fail in, becoming nice moral people instead of the spiritual powerhouses that are able to stand against the evils of this world. We will be saved, that is, our bodies in the Resurrection of the dead when our mortal and corruptible bodies put on immortality and incorruptibility. 1Cor.15:51-53

The indwelling Holy Spirit resides in our bodies (because that is where the sin nature resides Rom.7:23 ) to make us a clean temple for the Lord 1Cor.6:19 and in our hearts as a seal (guarantee) of the final phase of salvation ie, the resurrection of our dead bodies. 2Cor.1:22 and Eph.4:30

In short, we have been saved (past tense) spiritually, our souls are being saved (present tense) and our bodies will be saved (and transformed - future tense).

The salvation that can be lost is the present one by grieving and/or quenching the Holy Spirit, for in that state one has fallen from grace (God's will and power at work in our lives to overcome 2Cor.12:9 ) and is out of fellowship but not cast out, for nothing in all creation can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus. Rom.8:39 Once a child of God, always a child of God. His Word causes it to happen now and guarantees it in the future and there is no greater assurance than His word.

Our free will can choose sin and unrepentance and domination


We have by the initial grace of justification union with God and His saints thru Christ that empowers our actions with grace with the promise of eternal salvation!

In sin we fall, in grace we stand!

Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.


Romans 5:2

By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. (Stand in grace not salvation)

Grace can be lost!

Eph 5:2-6 children of disobedience shall not inherit the kingdom of God
gal 5:1-4 fallen from grace
gal 5:19-21 shall not inherit the kingdom of God
gal 6:7-8 sow and reap
1 cor 6:9-10 & 15-20 shall not inherit the kingdom of God
1 tim 5:12 lost faith
Hebrews 6:4-6 fall away
rev 21:8 sin buys the lake of fire
rev 21:27 sin keeps us out of heaven
rom 8:1 gace lost by sin
gal 5:4 can fall from grace
1 cor 15:10 can have grace in vain
2 cor 4:7 treasure (grace) in earthen vessels
1 Jn 3:15 no life (grace)
Jn 15:5 apart from Christ? NOTHING!
2 Peter 1:10 diligence to make your calling and election sure
Luke 15:24 my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found.

Can't be lost?

1 Timothy 5:12
Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.

Thks

 

[carbunculus]

Not sure what you said “no” to, but the correct answer is that God graces everyone with the ability to choose whether to serve/satisfy Him or not—and accepting or cooperating with His will via saving faith is NOT meritorious.

Is this what you also believe?

I like this I'm a firm believer of common grace and i swear allegiance to the firm belief that all mankind is blessed with common grace whether a believer or unbeliever,

Over and out Roger

 

[amazingrace]

God did it. He's good at that.

Why does Jesus command the apostolic church to do it?

Mt 28:19

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

And

2 pet 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 8:19
And not that only, but who was also chosen of the churches to travel with us with this grace, which is administered by us to the glory of the same Lord, and declaration of your ready mind:

Thks

 

[amazingrace]

Ezekiel 36 v 27 I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

When does this happen?

Thks