I know the quote. I've quoted here a dozen or more times. But you're asking for the quote to twist it and throw it back in my face. I'm not new to this game.
More about Israel.
- Thread starter Gideon300
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I know the quote. I've quoted here a dozen or more times. But you're asking for the quote to twist it and throw it back in my face. I'm not new to this game.
Jew hatred, pretty simple.
No it isn't. It would mean something if you were Jewish.
No it isn't. What you believe isn't even close to common sense.
He did...
So what have you to say about the actual rape of women on Oct 7? The rape of female hostages, so violent that their hips were broken. Somehow I'm going to take a wild guess and you're going to say it never happened.
No you didn’t A the Q - but you finally have in your last sentence - so based on your 'A' there is nothing special or chosen about the Jews of today or even those who have passed away - who didn’t believe in Jesus.
no difference to non-Jews who don’t believe in Jesus
so you don’t have any passage then - like usual a lot of talk but no substance!
There are multiple independent categories of evidence that historians use to conclude that the Nazi regime carried out the Holocaust.
The case does not rest on a single document or witness, but on a large body of mutually supporting evidence.
The Wannsee Conference Protocol (January 20, 1942) records senior Nazi officials discussing the coordination of the "Final Solution" of the Jewish question across Europe. [encycloped....ushmm.org], [holocaustr...roject.net]
Orders, memos, reports, transport records, census data, and SS correspondence survive in large numbers. Prosecutors at Nuremberg relied primarily on German-created documents. [encycloped....ushmm.org]
These units filed reports to Berlin documenting mass shootings of Jews and others.
Surviving reports record tens of thousands of executions and were later introduced as evidence in war crimes trials. [en.wikipedia.org], [nuremberg....arvard.edu]
Auschwitz-Birkenau, Majdanek, Treblinka, Sobibor, Chelmno, and other camps were documented by the Germans and later examined by Allied investigators.
Remains of gas chambers, crematoria, camp infrastructure, prisoner records, and personal belongings have been recovered. [en.wikipedia.org]
Their testimonies describe deportations, ghettos, forced labor, selections, mass shootings, gas chambers, starvation, and camp conditions.
Many testimonies were recorded independently in different countries over decades. [en.wikipedia.org]
Adolf Eichmann and numerous SS officers provided statements.
At Nuremberg and subsequent trials, defendants frequently argued they were following orders rather than denying the events occurred. [en.wikipedia.org], [encycloped....ushmm.org]
More than 3,000 tons of records were assembled for war crimes investigations. [en.wikipedia.org]
The Nuremberg prosecutors intentionally created a historical record based on documents, witnesses, and physical evidence. [encycloped....ushmm.org]
German photographs.
Secret photographs taken by prisoners.
Allied footage from liberation of camps.
Aerial reconnaissance images of camp complexes. [en.wikipedia.org]
Roughly six million Jews disappeared from the prewar Jewish population of Europe during the period of Nazi rule. [en.wikipedia.org]
Archaeological investigations have confirmed many execution sites associated with Nazi operations in Eastern Europe. [en.wikipedia.org]
Nazi officials
German military personnel
Jewish survivors
Non-Jewish witnesses
Allied investigators
Physical remains
Government archives
These sources often originated independently of one another yet point to the same basic conclusion: Nazi Germany implemented a systematic campaign of persecution and mass murder against Jews and other targeted groups during World War II. [encycloped....ushmm.org], [encycloped....ushmm.org], [en.wikipedia.org]
From a historical standpoint, the Holocaust is one of the most extensively documented events of the twentieth century.
The case does not rest on a single document or witness, but on a large body of mutually supporting evidence.
1. Nazi Government Documents
The strongest evidence comes from the Nazis themselves.The Wannsee Conference Protocol (January 20, 1942) records senior Nazi officials discussing the coordination of the "Final Solution" of the Jewish question across Europe. [encycloped....ushmm.org], [holocaustr...roject.net]
Orders, memos, reports, transport records, census data, and SS correspondence survive in large numbers. Prosecutors at Nuremberg relied primarily on German-created documents. [encycloped....ushmm.org]
2. Einsatzgruppen Reports
Mobile SS killing units followed the German army into Eastern Europe.These units filed reports to Berlin documenting mass shootings of Jews and others.
Surviving reports record tens of thousands of executions and were later introduced as evidence in war crimes trials. [en.wikipedia.org], [nuremberg....arvard.edu]
3. Concentration and Extermination Camps
Physical sites still exist.Auschwitz-Birkenau, Majdanek, Treblinka, Sobibor, Chelmno, and other camps were documented by the Germans and later examined by Allied investigators.
Remains of gas chambers, crematoria, camp infrastructure, prisoner records, and personal belongings have been recovered. [en.wikipedia.org]
4. Testimony of Survivors
Thousands of survivors gave accounts.Their testimonies describe deportations, ghettos, forced labor, selections, mass shootings, gas chambers, starvation, and camp conditions.
Many testimonies were recorded independently in different countries over decades. [en.wikipedia.org]
5. Testimony of Nazi Perpetrators
Many Nazi officials admitted their roles.Adolf Eichmann and numerous SS officers provided statements.
At Nuremberg and subsequent trials, defendants frequently argued they were following orders rather than denying the events occurred. [en.wikipedia.org], [encycloped....ushmm.org]
6. Allied Investigations and Nuremberg Trials
After the war, Allied powers collected enormous amounts of evidence.More than 3,000 tons of records were assembled for war crimes investigations. [en.wikipedia.org]
The Nuremberg prosecutors intentionally created a historical record based on documents, witnesses, and physical evidence. [encycloped....ushmm.org]
7. Photographs and Film
Visual evidence exists from multiple sources.German photographs.
Secret photographs taken by prisoners.
Allied footage from liberation of camps.
Aerial reconnaissance images of camp complexes. [en.wikipedia.org]
8. Demographic Evidence
Population records show a dramatic loss of European Jewry.Roughly six million Jews disappeared from the prewar Jewish population of Europe during the period of Nazi rule. [en.wikipedia.org]
9. Mass Graves
Thousands of victims have been located in mass burial sites.Archaeological investigations have confirmed many execution sites associated with Nazi operations in Eastern Europe. [en.wikipedia.org]
10. Independent Corroboration
An important point is that these sources come from many different groups:Nazi officials
German military personnel
Jewish survivors
Non-Jewish witnesses
Allied investigators
Physical remains
Government archives
These sources often originated independently of one another yet point to the same basic conclusion: Nazi Germany implemented a systematic campaign of persecution and mass murder against Jews and other targeted groups during World War II. [encycloped....ushmm.org], [encycloped....ushmm.org], [en.wikipedia.org]
From a historical standpoint, the Holocaust is one of the most extensively documented events of the twentieth century.
What you choose to ignore is this:
- Zechariah 12:2: “Behold, I am about to make Jerusalem a cup of staggering to all the surrounding peoples. The siege of Jerusalem will also be against Judah.”
- Zechariah 12:3: “On that day I will make Jerusalem a heavy stone for all the peoples. All who lift it will surely hurt themselves.”
- Zechariah 12:5: “Then the clans of Judah shall say to themselves, ‘The inhabitants of Jerusalem have strength through the Lord of hosts, their God.’”
- Zechariah 12:6: “And they shall devour to the right and to the left all the surrounding peoples, while Jerusalem shall again be inhabited in its place, in Jerusalem.”
- Zechariah 12:7: “And the Lord will give salvation to the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem may not surpass that of Judah.”
- Zechariah 12:8: “On that day the Lord will protect the inhabitants of Jerusalem, so that the feeblest among them on that day shall be like David…”
- Zechariah 12:9: “And on that day I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.”
- Zechariah 12:10: “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy…”
- Zechariah 12:11: “On that day the mourning in Jerusalem will be as great as the mourning for Hadad-rimmon in the plain of Megiddo.”
- Zechariah 13:1: “On that day there shall be a fountain opened for the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, to cleanse them from sin and uncleanness.”
- Zechariah 14:2: “For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city shall be taken and the houses plundered and the women raped. Half of the city shall go out into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be cut off from the city.”
- Zechariah 14:4: “On that day his feet shall stand on the Mount of Olives that lies before Jerusalem on the east…”
- Zechariah 14:8: “On that day living waters shall go out from Jerusalem, half of them to the eastern sea and half of them to the western sea…”
- Zechariah 14:10: “The whole land shall be turned into a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem. And Jerusalem shall be lifted up, and inhabited in its place, from the Benjamin Gate to the place of the former gate, to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the king’s winepresses.”
- Zechariah 14:11: “And people shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more curse; Jerusalem shall dwell in security.”
- Zechariah 14:16: “Then everyone who survives of all the nations that have come against Jerusalem shall go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Booths.”
- Zechariah 14:17: “And if any of the families of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, no rain shall fall on them.”
- Zechariah 14:21: “And on that day there shall no longer be traders in the house of the Lord of hosts. On that day the bells of the horses shall be ‘Holy to the Lord,’ and the pots in the house of the Lord shall be like the bowls before the altar.”
Israel as a nation will be saved. Every nation that tries to come against Jerusalem will be cut down. God will preserve and refine 1/3 of the people living in the promised land when He returns to set up a Millennial Kingdom on earth (outlined mostly in Isaiah & Ezekiel) to show that HE IS GOD OF BOTH THE JEWS AND THE GENTILES, but He'll do it from Jerusalem.
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At best if it is an end time prophecy Jerusalem not Jews an invented race - doesn’t matter who you are if you believe in Jesus you may be saved if you think he was a Devil like the Jews do you are no saved. you conveniently overlooked where does it say Judaism or Jew is a religion and when was that?
The promise was Abraham not Israel - or the invented name Jews.
Promoted by Scofield a fraudster you didn’t do to well in sales until a Zionist backed him and paid for Oxford press to print and thereafter got promoted with the Zionist fabrication with sudden success in sales promoted by Zionists who have been running America and UK for a 100 years
Yes, many replaced almighty God for a secular political system.
Many bow to the golden calf.
A question worth asking is: Even if everything you said about Scofield were true, how would that determine the meaning of the biblical text itself?
Can you point to the specific promises to Abraham and show from Scripture where they were revoked, transferred, or redefined?
The issue is not whether Scofield was right or wrong.
The issue is what God actually promised, how the prophets understood those promises, and how the New Testament interprets them. Shouldn't the discussion return to those texts rather than the character or funding of a commentator?
Where in either passage does Jesus say that the promises made to Abraham are revoked, transferred, or cancelled?
In Luke 22, Jesus says, "This cup is the new testament in my blood."
The question is whether a new covenant replaces God's promises to Abraham or fulfills them.
Paul seems to connect them when he says, "Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made... and to thy seed, which is Christ" (Gal. 3:16).
Mark 2, the new wine and new wineskins illustrate the incompatibility of Christ's ministry with the old covenant system.
But does the parable address the Abrahamic promises at all, or is it about the old and new covenants?
Can you point to a text that explicitly says God's promises to Abraham were cancelled, or do the New Testament writers present those promises as being fulfilled in Christ and those who are united to Him?
Gen 12:3 I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you, I will curse. (no Israel, no Jew)
I never said it was revoked - text that’s what is should all be about - so show me that Abraham was a Jew or even an Israelite?
Everyone was mixed including his household based on the bible and thereafter - there is no pure blood line of descendants - the difference was only those who wanted to follow God were circumcised and those who did follow God were not circumcised - can you can show me something different from the passages that Jews as a particular race were the chosen?
I agree that Abraham was not called a Jew or an Israelite in Genesis.
But is the issue whether Abraham was a Jew, or whether God later formed a nation from Abraham's descendants and entered into covenants with them?
God said to Abraham, "I will make of thee a great nation" (Gen. 12:2), and later renamed Jacob "Israel" (Gen. 32:28).
So the question becomes: do the Scriptures present Israel as merely a religious group anyone could join, or as a nation descended from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob that also allowed foreigners to be joined to it by covenant?
I would also ask what is meant by "chosen."
Chosen for salvation, or chosen for a covenant role in history?
Deuteronomy 7:6 says, "The LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself above all people that are upon the face of the earth."
That appears to speak of Israel as a people.
Yet Romans 9 reminds us that physical descent alone never guaranteed righteousness before God.
So perhaps the underlying question is this: when Scripture speaks of Israel as God's chosen people, are you arguing that "Israel" never referred to a distinct covenant nation descended from Jacob, or that being part of that nation never guaranteed salvation?
Those are two very different claims, and the texts should be examined separately.
The Bible specifically says that God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. And the ones called (the remnant who will be saved) out of that line of heritage will occupy the promised land during the Millennial Kingdom period. That is the PROMISE that God made to Abraham. It's called the Abrahamic Covenant and God/Jesus passed it down to Isaac and then Jacob/Israel. The 12 tribes of Israel that came out of Jacob. And because Jesus also came through the the seed of Jacob, through the tribe of Judah (like King David / The Davidic Covenant), He will be the one ruling over Israel from Jerusalem because the Bible tells us so.
Here are the key verses showing how the descendant of David (from the tribe of Judah / Jesus) would rule over them during this Millennial Kingdom period:
- 2 Samuel 7:12–16 — "When your days are fulfilled and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring after you, who shall come from your body, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever… Your house and your kingdom shall endure before me forever; your throne shall be established forever."
- 1 Chronicles 17:13–14 — "He shall build me a house, and I will establish his throne forever. I will be his father, and he shall be my son; and I will not take my lovingkindness from him… But I will settle him in my house and in my kingdom forever, and his throne shall be established forever."
- Psalm 89:3–4 — "I have made a covenant with my chosen one; I have sworn to David my servant: 'I will establish your offspring forever, and build your throne to all generations.'"
- Psalm 89:28–29 — "He shall cry to me, 'You are my Father, my God, and the Rock of my salvation!' And I will make him the firstborn, the highest of the kings of the earth. I will keep my covenant forever; it stands firm for all generations."
- Isaiah 9:6–7 — "For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and of peace there will be no end, on the throne of David and over his kingdom, to establish it and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness from this time forth and forevermore."
- Jeremiah 23:5–6 — "Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will raise up for David a righteous Branch, and he shall reign as king and deal wisely, and shall execute justice and righteousness in the land. In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will live securely."
- Jeremiah 33:17 — "For this is what the LORD says: David shall never lack a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel."
- Jeremiah 33:17 — "For this is what the LORD says: David shall never lack a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel."
- Luke 1:32–33 — "He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end."
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If Scofield was wrong, does that automatically make every interpretation associated with him wrong, or must each doctrine still be tested from Scripture?
If Scofield's influence caused people to read certain passages incorrectly, then let's examine those passages directly.
Which promise to Abraham, which prophecy, or which New Testament interpretation do you believe was misunderstood?
Otherwise the discussion can easily shift from "What does the text say?" to "Who promoted a particular view?"
Jesus often brought discussions back to the source: "What is written in the law? how readest thou?" (Luke 10:26).
Perhaps that's the better question here.
Not whether Scofield was influential, but whether the interpretation in question can be established from the biblical text itself.