More about Israel.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I always find the double standard interesting, Covid was a fabrication, people were not dying, there was no pandemic and everyone suddenly became a doctor or virologist.

Always like the appeal to "consensus" which has become quite meaningless over time because of the very things Dietrich Bonhoeffer wrote about.
The word "consensus" by itself doesn't prove something is true.
History is full of moments where the majority got things wrong.
My point wasn't that a claim is true because a lot of people agree with it.
It was that conclusions should ultimately stand or fall on the evidence, not on who is promoting them.
I actually think Bonhoeffer's warnings are relevant here.
One of the dangers he identified was becoming captive to a narrative, whether it's the mainstream narrative or the alternative one.
That's why I try to ask the same question of every position: "What evidence would cause me to change my mind?"
If I can't answer that, then I may have stopped investigating and started defending.
For me, that's the real challenge.
Not whether a view is popular or unpopular, but whether I'm still willing to follow the evidence if it takes me somewhere I wasn't expecting.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Churchgoer
Wow, cc to ban people to have different views?
What's next, ban people rejecting vaccine?
Ban people rejecting isreal state policy?
Ban people rejecting trump policy?
Ban people rejecting LGBT?
Ban people in most denominations?
Ban, ban, ban.....
Ban people from American, talking too freely...

Anti-semitism shouldn't even be a consideration for true Christians, much less a topic of debate on a Christian Chat forum.

---
 
Wow, cc to ban people to have different views?
What's next, ban people rejecting vaccine?
Ban people rejecting isreal state policy?
Ban people rejecting trump policy?
Ban people rejecting LGBT?
Ban people in most denominations?
Ban, ban, ban.....
Ban people from American, talking too freely...
Plus, the golden calf worshippers are real anti-Christian, anti-Christ.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HeIsHere
The word "consensus" by itself doesn't prove something is true.
History is full of moments where the majority got things wrong.
My point wasn't that a claim is true because a lot of people agree with it.
It was that conclusions should ultimately stand or fall on the evidence, not on who is promoting them.
I actually think Bonhoeffer's warnings are relevant here.
One of the dangers he identified was becoming captive to a narrative, whether it's the mainstream narrative or the alternative one.
That's why I try to ask the same question of every position: "What evidence would cause me to change my mind?"
If I can't answer that, then I may have stopped investigating and started defending.
For me, that's the real challenge.
Not whether a view is popular or unpopular, but whether I'm still willing to follow the evidence if it takes me somewhere I wasn't expecting.


1) Like I stated knowing what is reliable and valid "evidence" requires training.

2) There is more at play here than primary source documents because it is connected to scripture.

There are other "entities" who have a vested interest in worldly events because they hate mankind, to see this and known this spiritually, one has to beseech God to show you the truth and He will, for the honest seeker.

Anyway these conversations have occurred before many times on here, and they can never be dispassionate, so I am moving on.
 
There is no genocide being committed against Palestinians, just Islamic terrorists and the people who support them for being terrorists. It's called "defending" oneself. On the other hand, the terrorists are definitely targeting and killing the Jews and/or anyone who doesn't obey the terrorists.

--
If you can prove your claims before the whole world in a court of law I will listen.
What I posted are the findings of a court, not just some religiously driven person telling us what is what in a place that they know nothing about.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HeIsHere
If you can prove your claims before the whole world in a court of law I will listen.
What I posted are the findings of a court, not just some religiously driven person telling us what is what in a place that they know nothing about.

The world is full of antisemitics, even courts. This is why the Bible says that the whole world will try to turn against Jerusalem AGAIN! That's why God/Jesus cuts down every nation that ever tried/tries to come up against it. Read your Bible.

---
 
The word "consensus" by itself doesn't prove something is true.
History is full of moments where the majority got things wrong.
My point wasn't that a claim is true because a lot of people agree with it.
It was that conclusions should ultimately stand or fall on the evidence, not on who is promoting them.
I actually think Bonhoeffer's warnings are relevant here.
One of the dangers he identified was becoming captive to a narrative, whether it's the mainstream narrative or the alternative one.
That's why I try to ask the same question of every position: "What evidence would cause me to change my mind?"
If I can't answer that, then I may have stopped investigating and started defending.
For me, that's the real challenge.
Not whether a view is popular or unpopular, but whether I'm still willing to follow the evidence if it takes me somewhere I wasn't expecting.

Just to clarify I did not mean you, when I spoke about dispassionate dialogue.

But there are others who are so emotional, I see no reason to ruin a pleasant day.;)
 
  • Love
Reactions: OMC
Wow, cc to ban people to have different views?
What's next, ban people rejecting vaccine?
Ban people rejecting isreal state policy?
Ban people rejecting trump policy?
Ban people rejecting LGBT?
Ban people in most denominations?
Ban, ban, ban.....
Ban people from American, talking too freely...

Yes, people have been banned here. Just like any other forum.
 
Wow, cc to ban people to have different views?
What's next, ban people rejecting vaccine?
Ban people rejecting isreal state policy?
Ban people rejecting trump policy?
Ban people rejecting LGBT?
Ban people in most denominations?
Ban, ban, ban.....
Ban people from American, talking too freely...
No. Just people that deny or minimize THIS.
These are some of the images my Uncle described seeing. If they disturb you, maybe you should rethink your antisemitism. If they don’t, that says a lot.

1792099891894.jpeg



1792100063272.jpeg
 
  • Like
Reactions: Revelation1v8
Wow, cc to ban people to have different views?
What's next, ban people rejecting vaccine?
Ban people rejecting isreal state policy?
Ban people rejecting trump policy?
Ban people rejecting LGBT?
Ban people in most denominations?
Ban, ban, ban.....
Ban people from American, talking too freely...
Their zeal for the nation of Israel is greater than their love for the people of Israel, the Israel of God.
This is the poisonous fruit of dispensational theology, though it is not theology at all. But a modern lie from an ancient liar.
I guess I should ban myself now.
 
I always find the double standard interesting, Covid was a fabrication, people were not dying, there was no pandemic and everyone suddenly became a doctor or virologist.

Always like the appeal to "consensus" which has become quite meaningless over time because of the very things Dietrich Bonhoeffer wrote about.
While the plot to assassinate Hitler was not the brightest idea, his writings were powerful and it seems his time in prison served him and the Body well.
 
Their zeal for the nation of Israel is greater than their love for the people of Israel, the Israel of God.
This is the poisonous fruit of dispensational theology, though it is not theology at all. But a modern lie from an ancient liar.
I guess I should ban myself now.
Anti Christian, anti Christ should be banned.
But God allows tare for a short time.

Trust in God's divine wisdom.
 
Anti Christian, anti Christ should be banned.
But God allows tare for a short time.

Trust in God's divine wisdom.

Does it make you Anti-Christian when you refuse to listen to what God/Jesus himself said in His word? You haven't trusted in God/Jesus' divine wisdom since I've been here.

---
 
Their zeal for the nation of Israel is greater than their love for the people of Israel, the Israel of God.
This is the poisonous fruit of dispensational theology, though it is not theology at all. But a modern lie from an ancient liar.
I guess I should ban myself now.

Antisemitism is the poisonous fruit that has poisoned your mind and kept you from being able to understand God's word in the way it was written.

---
 
I'm gonna regret this, but I'm feeling kinda salty this evening.

What is a Jew?
What is a Semite?
What is an Israelite?

Was Jesus a Jew?
Was He an ethnic Jew?
Was He a full practicing Torah Jew?

I say yes to all three, and yet, He didn't have anything kind to say to the Jews, correcting nearly every one of their doctrines while damning their traditions.

Who are the lost sheep of the house of Israel?
Who are the Israel of God?

Those now calling themselves Jews and The Nation of Israel,
Are they ethnic Jews?
Are they religious Jews?
Are they the descendants of Abraham?
Can they prove it?

Are they Talmudic?
Are they Orthodox?
Are they atheistic?

Do you have any idea how disgusting the Talmud is?

Was Christ rejected by the Jews?
Do they reject Him now?

Might any verifiable descendants of Abraham really exist?
Could these descendants be someone other than those presently claiming to be Jews?

Diaspora?

Are the Jews waiting for Christ or the Antichrist?

Are you waiting for Christ or the antichrist?

Dispensationalists would build him a temple.

Very strange times we are living in when the people of God want to build a temple for animal sacrifice because the cross wasn't good enough for the Jews, whoever they may actually be.

Build a temple for the devil so that Christ may come. Does this sound like wisdom to anyone, really?

God's chosen people.
What a powerfully divisive and deceptive term.

26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Churchgoer
I'm gonna regret this, but I'm feeling kinda salty this evening.

What is a Jew?
What is a Semite?
What is an Israelite?

Was Jesus a Jew?
Was He an ethnic Jew?
Was He a full practicing Torah Jew?

I say yes to all three, and yet, He didn't have anything kind to say to the Jews, correcting nearly every one of their doctrines while damning their traditions.

Who are the lost sheep of the house of Israel?
Who are the Israel of God?

Those now calling themselves Jews and The Nation of Israel,
Are they ethnic Jews?
Are they religious Jews?
Are they the descendants of Abraham?
Can they prove it?

Are they Talmudic?
Are they Orthodox?
Are they atheistic?

Do you have any idea how disgusting the Talmud is?

Was Christ rejected by the Jews?
Do they reject Him now?

Might any verifiable descendants of Abraham really exist?
Could these descendants be someone other than those presently claiming to be Jews?

Diaspora?

Are the Jews waiting for Christ or the Antichrist?

Are you waiting for Christ or the antichrist?

Dispensationalists would build him a temple.

Very strange times we are living in when the people of God want to build a temple for animal sacrifice because the cross wasn't good enough for the Jews, whoever they may actually be.

Build a temple for the devil so that Christ may come. Does this sound like wisdom to anyone, really?

God's chosen people.
What a powerfully divisive and deceptive term.

26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
I think you're raising several important questions, but I'd probably separate them so we don't end up mixing distinct issues together.

First, yes, Jesus was a Jew.
He was descended from Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and David according to the flesh.
He lived under the Law and fulfilled it perfectly.

Second, Jesus certainly rebuked many of the religious leaders of His day.
But it's worth remembering that He wasn't condemning all Jews as an ethnic group.
His apostles were Jews.
The early church was overwhelmingly Jewish.
The first believers were Jews.

Third, I completely agree that being physically descended from Abraham was never enough.
John the Baptist said: "God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham" (Matt. 3:9).
Paul makes the same point in Galatians 3.
Those who belong to Christ are Abraham's seed by faith and heirs according to the promise.

Where I become cautious is when discussions about modern Judaism move from theological disagreement to broad conclusions about an entire people group.
There are religious Jews, secular Jews, Orthodox Jews, Reform Jews, believing Jews, unbelieving Jews, and countless variations in between.

As for the phrase "God's chosen people," Scripture itself uses that language for Israel.
The debate is not whether God chose Israel, but how the promises to Israel relate to Christ, the church, and the new covenant.

On the temple issue, I understand your concern.
If Christ's sacrifice was once for all, then any future sacrificial system cannot add to or complete what He accomplished at the cross. Hebrews is very clear on that point.

Ultimately, I think Galatians 3:28-29 brings us back to the center: "There is neither Jew nor Greek... for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."
Whatever conclusions we draw about Israel, the church, prophecy, or the end times, Christ remains the dividing line.
The fundamental question isn't, "Who can prove their ancestry?" It's: "What will you do with Jesus Christ?"
That's the question every Jew, Gentile, religious person, atheist, and Christian professor must ultimately answer.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ThomasMatthew
Antisemitism is the poisonous fruit that has poisoned your mind and kept you from being able to understand God's word in the way it was written.

---
To be an antisemite I would first have to change the definition of a semite. Arabs are semites. And second, I would have to agree that those people now calling themselves Jews are actually Jews. They are not ethnic Jews. And only some of them are religious. And the religious ones hate Christ.

I love Israel. Israel is me. Israel are my people. Christ came to His people Israel, those who received Him were delivered from bondage. Not just from sin and death, but the plague of the Pharisees.

Israel has been redeemed. Past tense, present tense, and into the future until the last lost sheep is brought into the fold.

I have known many Jewish people over the years, almost married one but she died of a brain tumor. She wasn't a Zionist either. She would have wept over Palestine. I love those who practice the Jewish faith, but no less or more than I love my Buddhist or Mormon or Atheist neighbor.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Churchgoer
I think you're raising several important questions, but I'd probably separate them so we don't end up mixing distinct issues together.

First, yes, Jesus was a Jew.
He was descended from Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and David according to the flesh.
He lived under the Law and fulfilled it perfectly.

Second, Jesus certainly rebuked many of the religious leaders of His day.
But it's worth remembering that He wasn't condemning all Jews as an ethnic group.
His apostles were Jews.
The early church was overwhelmingly Jewish.
The first believers were Jews.

Third, I completely agree that being physically descended from Abraham was never enough.
John the Baptist said: "God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham" (Matt. 3:9).
Paul makes the same point in Galatians 3.
Those who belong to Christ are Abraham's seed by faith and heirs according to the promise.

Where I become cautious is when discussions about modern Judaism move from theological disagreement to broad conclusions about an entire people group.
There are religious Jews, secular Jews, Orthodox Jews, Reform Jews, believing Jews, unbelieving Jews, and countless variations in between.

As for the phrase "God's chosen people," Scripture itself uses that language for Israel.
The debate is not whether God chose Israel, but how the promises to Israel relate to Christ, the church, and the new covenant.

On the temple issue, I understand your concern.
If Christ's sacrifice was once for all, then any future sacrificial system cannot add to or complete what He accomplished at the cross. Hebrews is very clear on that point.

Ultimately, I think Galatians 3:28-29 brings us back to the center: "There is neither Jew nor Greek... for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."
Whatever conclusions we draw about Israel, the church, prophecy, or the end times, Christ remains the dividing line.
The fundamental question isn't, "Who can prove their ancestry?" It's: "What will you do with Jesus Christ?"
That's the question every Jew, Gentile, religious person, atheist, and Christian professor must ultimately answer.
interesting.
Who is Semitic? Fyi , many of us are. Including my parents, their parents, and their parents..... from shem.
 
interesting.
Who is Semitic? Fyi , many of us are. Including my parents, their parents, and their parents..... from shem.
That's actually a good point, and I think it highlights why definitions matter.👍
Biblically speaking, Semite is a broader category than Jew.
A Jew is descended from Judah (or became part of the Jewish people), whereas "Semitic" traces back to Shem, one of Noah's sons.
If we're talking purely about ancestry, then yes, a great many people could trace their lineage back to Shem.
Abraham himself came from the line of Shem, but so did many other ancient peoples.
That's one reason I tend to be careful when people use terms like Jew, Israelite, Hebrew, and Semite interchangeably.
They're related terms, but they're not identical.
And honestly, I think that circles back to Paul's point in Galatians.
Whatever conclusions we reach about ethnicity, lineage, or national identity, the New Testament's emphasis shifts toward faith in Christ as the defining issue.
So while questions of ancestry can be historically interesting, I don't think they ultimately answer the spiritual question.
Paul can acknowledge Jewish ancestry and privileges in Romans 9, while also insisting that all stand on the same ground before God through Christ.
In other words, being a descendant of Shem, Abraham, Judah, or anyone else may tell us something about a person's history.
It doesn't settle their standing before God. That's where Christ becomes the dividing line.