-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E
So your saying the two kingdoms of isreal has been restored to her land as the OT prophets fortold.
In this passage, jesus is speaking about himself. Not the nation of Isreal. all OT prophesies are not fulfilled. period!
The law spoke of him, the prophets spoke of him. he is here. that is just part of OT prophesy.
Until John means that from the time of the prophets and the law until John, they all spoke of him. This does not mean they did not speak of other things. your assuming things which should not be assumed. Even Paul spoke of a future restoration of Isreal, who he claimed where now our enemy, but some day would "all be saved" as prophesied in the OT.
Rom 11: 25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved,[g] as it is written:
“ The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.
28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.
Paul said this prophesy had not yet been fulfilled many years after Christ died. So why would you want me to say Christ fulfilled all? When even paul did not believe it.
No I don't see it. He was not two. He was one. The whole world did not see him, nor did they see him raise from the dead and ascend. Yet revelations says clearly.
7 When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our[c] Lord was crucified. 9 Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow[d] their dead bodies to be put into graves. 10 And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.
1. They were killed by the beast. No one killed Christ, he gave up his life.
2. Their bodies lied in the street for 3 days. and were not in a grave, Christ was in a grave.
3. The whole world saw them (impossible until he advent of satellite communications and video) Only the people in jerusalem saw Christ die, and only those he chose to show him to saw him later
4. Jesus did not torment anyone..
how you can get this to equal jesus is beyond me, or fulfilled by jesus is beyond me.
In this passage, jesus is speaking about himself. Not the nation of Isreal. all OT prophesies are not fulfilled. period!
The law spoke of him, the prophets spoke of him. he is here. that is just part of OT prophesy.
Until John means that from the time of the prophets and the law until John, they all spoke of him. This does not mean they did not speak of other things. your assuming things which should not be assumed. Even Paul spoke of a future restoration of Isreal, who he claimed where now our enemy, but some day would "all be saved" as prophesied in the OT.
Rom 11: 25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved,[g] as it is written:
“ The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.
28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.
Paul said this prophesy had not yet been fulfilled many years after Christ died. So why would you want me to say Christ fulfilled all? When even paul did not believe it.
No I don't see it. He was not two. He was one. The whole world did not see him, nor did they see him raise from the dead and ascend. Yet revelations says clearly.
7 When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our[c] Lord was crucified. 9 Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow[d] their dead bodies to be put into graves. 10 And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.
1. They were killed by the beast. No one killed Christ, he gave up his life.
2. Their bodies lied in the street for 3 days. and were not in a grave, Christ was in a grave.
3. The whole world saw them (impossible until he advent of satellite communications and video) Only the people in jerusalem saw Christ die, and only those he chose to show him to saw him later
4. Jesus did not torment anyone..
how you can get this to equal jesus is beyond me, or fulfilled by jesus is beyond me.
Not Pride, just convinced by The Holy Spirit
I do not judge the person, I judge what I hear, and what I have heard
from shroom is not Truth.
We are to try the spirits to see if they be of God are we not.
For the Spiritual judge all things.
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1Co 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
As do I, 2knowhim, and what you claim does not match up with scripture.
The bible plainly teaches Christ will literally return to earth.
Acts 1:11) and said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven."
You claim Christ is ruling now, the bible says the whole world is under the influence of satan
Luke 4:6) and said to him, "To you I will give all this authority and their glory, for it has been delivered to me, and I give it to whom I will.
1 John 5:19)(ESV) We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.
We disagree. One of us is not right.
Yes, our doctrine must line up with God's Word. Yours does not, at least in these areas.
The bible plainly teaches Christ will literally return to earth.
Acts 1:11) and said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven."
You claim Christ is ruling now, the bible says the whole world is under the influence of satan
Luke 4:6) and said to him, "To you I will give all this authority and their glory, for it has been delivered to me, and I give it to whom I will.
1 John 5:19)(ESV) We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.
We disagree. One of us is not right.
Yes, our doctrine must line up with God's Word. Yours does not, at least in these areas.
It is a major event. When it happens to you, you will not miss it. That's why that scripture says no one has to ask if the Lord is here or is He over there. Those whom the Lord has come to, know right well where He is.
If you use regular logic on this you will know this must be a spiritual 2nd coming. If the Lord came down from Heaven, physically, in a big spectacle then when He got here at least 1/2 the world would not know where He landed, right??? The ones on the opposite side of the earth that couldn't see the landing... They would ask, where is He???
But if He comes to each of us individually... Ahhhh. Then no one has to ask, Where is HE? They will not listen when someone says, He is over here, no He is over there. They will know that He is with them, for always. For He will never leave us nor forsake us.
The Lord Reigns. That is for sure. Right Now He Reigns. He conquers sin and death for all of us. Why we don't all see this, especially Christians, is a mystery to me.
Why call Jesus King? Why call Him Lord? What does a King do? What does a Lord do? To say "Just look around you at all the sin, Jesus can't be Lord". It just shows you are looking in all the wrong places. Start looking in the right places. Then You will know Jesus is King.
This is not something that can be proven with science, or logic or learning. This is something that is revealed by Jesus Christ Himself. Which, as 2KnowHim has found out, its a bit tricky trying to teach people Revelation knowledge. This is all about the New Creation, the way He makes all things New. And the reason why He said, It is finished.
Humility and repentance. Those are the things that are needed for the Lord to reveal Himself to you. You must humble yourself to realize you may have been taught some wrong doctrine, you may believe things that are a lie, and repent from these things when you find out they are wrong. But if you have no humility or are not willing to repent, you're kind of stuck where you're at. Maybe that's what you want...
Yes, I do know this, but a brother in the Lord told me, to keep in mind that there are
many quests who read, that's mainly why I post now, and let the Lord use it as He sees
fit. I want so much for people to experience what Christ has done for them Here and Now
not be waiting for something that may never come as they believe, ya know?
I love all, no matter what they believe, and I Bless all,
and pray for all, the rest in His wonderful hands.
Bless you Grandpa,
and I know He does
Scherryl
M
The book of Revelation describes literal events using figurative language. Failing to recognize figurative language when it is used will result in an improper interpretation.
Christ defeated satan at the cross then He handed us (the church) the key(Scripture) With every heresy we let enter the church the more evil we let loose.
Mat 16:19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
We hold the keys it was up to us. Thankfully even though we have done a poor job Christ will return to place His enemies underfoot.
Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Hath and hast are past tense, there had to be a kingdom before we could be made kings and priests. We started reigning with Christ back in the first century when He first started His kingdom and we shall continue to do so. John did not lie when he said he was “in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ,” (see Rev1:9)
Christ defeated satan at the cross then He handed us (the church) the key(Scripture) With every heresy we let enter the church the more evil we let loose.
Mat 16:19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
We hold the keys it was up to us. Thankfully even though we have done a poor job Christ will return to place His enemies underfoot.
Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Hath and hast are past tense, there had to be a kingdom before we could be made kings and priests. We started reigning with Christ back in the first century when He first started His kingdom and we shall continue to do so. John did not lie when he said he was “in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ,” (see Rev1:9)
L
Before God does something the people are warned first. Noah warned the world of coming destruction before the flood, the Bible says he was a preacher of righteousness.
2 Peter 2:5
(5) And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
Jeremiah warned of the Babylonian captivity and the destruction of Jerusalem
Jeremiah 4:4
(4) Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.
God always warns first so today the world is being warned of coming destruction to the world and only those in Christ will be safe. Look at these verses at what will happen when Jesus returns
Revelation 6:14-17
(14) And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
(15) And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
(16) And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
(17) For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Revelation 16:19-21
(19) And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
(20) And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
(21) And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.
Jeremiah 4:23-27
(23) I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
(24) I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
(25) I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
(26) I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
(27) For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
God is giving us an invitation
Ezekiel 18:32
(32) For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.
2 Peter 2:5
(5) And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
Jeremiah warned of the Babylonian captivity and the destruction of Jerusalem
Jeremiah 4:4
(4) Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.
God always warns first so today the world is being warned of coming destruction to the world and only those in Christ will be safe. Look at these verses at what will happen when Jesus returns
Revelation 6:14-17
(14) And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
(15) And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
(16) And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
(17) For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Revelation 16:19-21
(19) And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
(20) And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
(21) And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.
Jeremiah 4:23-27
(23) I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
(24) I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
(25) I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
(26) I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
(27) For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
God is giving us an invitation
Ezekiel 18:32
(32) For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.
E
so this gives us a reason to make a figure of timeline, even though no prophesy concerning time in scripture has ever been taken figuratively??
lol yet according to the literal kingdom prophesies of the OT, a lion will sleep with a sheep and they will both live in peace. And their will be peace on earth. so this kingdom is now??
He made us kings and priests the moment we are saved,
but he does not say we ARE reigning with him. it says we SHALL (future tense) reign with him..
nice try!
lol yet according to the literal kingdom prophesies of the OT, a lion will sleep with a sheep and they will both live in peace. And their will be peace on earth. so this kingdom is now??
He made us kings and priests the moment we are saved,
but he does not say we ARE reigning with him. it says we SHALL (future tense) reign with him..
nice try!
Yes, absolutely. I have noticed that the keys to peoples struggles and error are often in their own words in their own posts. Funny how that works, isn't it?
Often times disagreements that we have are just based on points of view. That is why the body of Christ needs each other. We see as through a glass darkly. We know in part. When the eye of the body says 'look, this is how I see it' the ear of the body says 'no it is not like that, I experience it this way'. Well both views are part of an integral whole. Gods ways are above our ways. His knowledge is above our knowledge. I am merely a dumb, weak child in the shadow of His Greatness. I know this little tiny fraction of what is to come, and yet that tiny fraction is amazing. My point is we all have something to add to the body, even if it doesn't quite seem to fit at the time.