T
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Here are some verses that spake of Hell being a very real place (not 'condition,' that is, unless you áre left to be in a horrifying condition).
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This 1st reference for my understanding what Hell is, and, it is a 'where,' and, whether it is a 'where' of a literal place , or if 'it' is a figurative place you lie and live forever in torment after you die and leave your human body, it is really some 'where' that your soul goes.......to spatially, age-during exist, forevermore.
2 Peter 2:4 ~ For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness (a place of 'where') , to be reserved (definitely, those angels are alive in this place of darkness) for judgment.
Now, from this verse, these angels who sinned against God are, as I speak, and 1000s years before now, in the darkness, chained.
This verse explains more of God's utter judgment on mankind....
Tombo4Christ, remember, too, that God was unkind, devastatingly so, to the sexual misdoers and pleasure feelers/livers , which caused The Great Flood. That wiped out ALL mankind but Noah, his family, and, two of every kind of animal....
You seem to think that God is too nice, too much made of Love to ever bring horrible judgment and death (alive in body, but in a casket of hell, so to speak) on the ones that sin and continue despite God's voice for them to hear, which they (unjust folks, and, notice , I didn't say 'sinners') turn a deaf ear because God did speak to Noah in Gen. 6:13, so one can see God surely pleaded with man to turn from their wickedness and thoughts that were not of God. Right?
But is God really too nice, too Loving to send the unjust to eternal torment?.... More verses, we go to 2 Peter 2:9 , which after talking about God having no mercy on the sinning angels, nor, Noah time wickedness of men, and, Sodom and Gomorrah cities annihilated for those cities lawlessness, it says this regarding the power and the capability of God.....
2 Peter 2:9 ~ Then the Lord(who can destroy sinning angels, Noah time unjust, etc) knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment.
So, this 2P 2:9 verse tells that there is a suspended state for the unjust. Right?
Ok, then since this is going so well here, and, you're getting scareder and scareder of what hell really is or 'where', rather , Tombo4Christ, let's just mount the evidence from this same book and chapter with....
We are still speaking of what will happen to the unjust in this next verse.
2 Peter 2:17 ~ These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved (there's that 'there' spatial real place word again) the blackness of darkness forever.
Here are some verses that spake of Hell being a very real place (not 'condition,' that is, unless you áre left to be in a horrifying condition).
---
This 1st reference for my understanding what Hell is, and, it is a 'where,' and, whether it is a 'where' of a literal place , or if 'it' is a figurative place you lie and live forever in torment after you die and leave your human body, it is really some 'where' that your soul goes.......to spatially, age-during exist, forevermore.
2 Peter 2:4 ~ For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness (a place of 'where') , to be reserved (definitely, those angels are alive in this place of darkness) for judgment.
Now, from this verse, these angels who sinned against God are, as I speak, and 1000s years before now, in the darkness, chained.
This verse explains more of God's utter judgment on mankind....
Tombo4Christ, remember, too, that God was unkind, devastatingly so, to the sexual misdoers and pleasure feelers/livers , which caused The Great Flood. That wiped out ALL mankind but Noah, his family, and, two of every kind of animal....
You seem to think that God is too nice, too much made of Love to ever bring horrible judgment and death (alive in body, but in a casket of hell, so to speak) on the ones that sin and continue despite God's voice for them to hear, which they (unjust folks, and, notice , I didn't say 'sinners') turn a deaf ear because God did speak to Noah in Gen. 6:13, so one can see God surely pleaded with man to turn from their wickedness and thoughts that were not of God. Right?
But is God really too nice, too Loving to send the unjust to eternal torment?.... More verses, we go to 2 Peter 2:9 , which after talking about God having no mercy on the sinning angels, nor, Noah time wickedness of men, and, Sodom and Gomorrah cities annihilated for those cities lawlessness, it says this regarding the power and the capability of God.....
2 Peter 2:9 ~ Then the Lord(who can destroy sinning angels, Noah time unjust, etc) knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment.
So, this 2P 2:9 verse tells that there is a suspended state for the unjust. Right?
Ok, then since this is going so well here, and, you're getting scareder and scareder of what hell really is or 'where', rather , Tombo4Christ, let's just mount the evidence from this same book and chapter with....
We are still speaking of what will happen to the unjust in this next verse.
2 Peter 2:17 ~ These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved (there's that 'there' spatial real place word again) the blackness of darkness forever.
Hi GreenNnice,
Thanks for the input, it is appreciated. I would just like to point out a couple of things in the verses you've listed:
1. It says that the lost angels are being held for a certain event; judgment. I hold that that judgment will result in their total destruction.
2. The 2 Peter 2:17 verse is again speaking of utter destruction. The blackness of darkness. It's curious how some people hold that the lost will be in fire and darkness. With the presence of fire, darkness could not exist. They are both simply speaking of God as a consuming fire and a destroyer of the ungodly.
My stance on this subject is based on study of the relevant verses of the Bible. It's not simply that I think God is too this or too that. Although I do believe, given the teaching all through the Bible of God's love and mercy and justcie, that it is a terrible teaching to say that God will forever torment anyone. God even warned the people of Israel not to overdue their punishment of the guilty. See Deut.25:1-3
"If there is a dispute between men and they come into court and the judges decide between them, acquitting the innocent and condemning the guilty, then if the guilty man deserves to be beaten, the judge shall cause him to lie down and be beaten in his presence with a number of stripes in proportion to his offence. Forty stripes may be given him, but not more, lest, if one should go on to beat him with more stripes than these, your brother be degraded in your sight."
Do you think that God would give these instructions to man (to not overly punish someone) and then do it Himself??? If God was concerned that man on earth not be punished beyond what he deserved, He surely won't torture someone everlastingly in eternity.
God bless, my friend.
Tom