Misunderstanding of Hell

[GreenNnice]

There is no such scripture in The Book of Revelation.

Death and Hell were cast into the Lake of Fire.

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.


You will only find that phase in Mat. and Luke the Gospels, and it is in direct reference to The Nation Israel.

IKnowHim, it comes down to what you want to believe, like i said before, 'It just doesn't matter,' however, I believe that there is a Hell and that people will go there and stay IF they have not accepted Jesus Christ as their Saviour.

I also believe that they will be condemned. Scripture is clear on this, and, scripture is clear on Satan being thrown into a 'bottomless pit,' and, scripture is clear about his followers going there too.
What does 'Death' mean? I think that is central to everything said and I believe it is forever and forever sufferage and I think our human natures, a good majority anyway, NEED this kind of incentive to follow Christ. Most do not just CHOOSE Christ , they have something happen in their life that shows them God's Love, usually through a dire situation, thus the many testimonies people tell of their lives.
Either way, John 3:16 is clear, if you believe in Christ, you will have eternal life and if not you will perish.

Now does perish mean you will just die a death, like I said, understanding the 'death' word is central to understanding the differece of Heaven and Hell.

One last thing that I believe, the word 'perish' relates to fruit and fruit does eventually rot away but it goes through a process in its perishing, IF that makes any sense.

Either way, whether hell is as you believe, not being where ANYONE goes, that universal salvaton belief, fine, that's your belief, like I said, it won't condemn you to Hell to believe that and it won't condemn Tombo to hell either. it is JUST a belief in where we go, it is NOT a belief in Christ, which IS central to Salvation

Thanks for pointing out that Revelation does not have weeping and gnashing of teeth, I really thought it did. Nevertheless, there is many points in it that speak of hell being a place of torment , and, that is, ultimately, what I think hell is, a place that we will be in 'mental anguish' forever and ever, a seperation from God and KNOWING we made the wrong choice

God bless -l

 

[2knowhim]

You are bound to believe what you do.

But, the word Condemned is a English word translated from the Greek, which means Judge or Judgment.

It's very easy to check these things out, the same as Eternal Life and Eternal punishment,...

There is no such thing as either in the Greek or The Hebrew, God alone is Eternal.

KJV

Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.


See if you can see the difference.

CLV
Joh 10:27 My sheep are hearing My voice, and I know them, and they are following Me."
Joh 10:28 And I am giving them life eonian, and they should by no means be perishing for the eon, and no one shall be snatching them out of My hand."


YLV
Joh 10:27 according as I said to you: My sheep my voice do hear, and I know them, and they follow me,
Joh 10:28 and life age-during I give to them, and they shall not perish--to the age, and no one shall pluck them out of my hand;

 

[Canadian36]

Not sure I agree. In the one verse, I think it's the rich man and laserous. The rich man dies and goes to hell. The rich man calls it "a place". The rich man doesn't appear to be being burnt up, just burned.

 

[Tombo]

Not sure I agree. In the one verse, I think it's the rich man and laserous. The rich man dies and goes to hell. The rich man calls it "a place". The rich man doesn't appear to be being burnt up, just burned.

Hi Canadian36,
Please read or listen to this exposition of "The Rich Man and Lazarus". You can click the audio icon at the top left and listen as you read the text. I found it helpful to do both. I'm curious to hear your input on this study.
God bless!!!!

Tom

The Rich Man, Lazarus, & the Afterlife

 

[GreenNnice]

Hi Canadian36,
Please read or listen to this exposition of "The Rich Man and Lazarus". You can click the audio icon at the top left and listen as you read the text. I found it helpful to do both. I'm curious to hear your input on this study.
God bless!!!!

Tom

The Rich Man, Lazarus, & the Afterlife

----
Our souls can't burn up can they?

 

[Tombo]

----
Our souls can't burn up can they?

Only God has immortal life. The only souls that will live forever are those of the believers given eternal life in Jesus Christ.

See Matthew10:28 "And do not fear those who kill the body BUT CANNOT KILL THE SOUL. Rather fear HIM WHO CAN DESTROY BOTH SOUL AND BODY IN HELL/GEHENNA.

Notice how it says can God can kill the soul. The Bible doesn't speak of humans as having immortality unless they are saved.

God bless!!!!

Tom

 

[krisbrian]

Only God has immortal life. The only souls that will live forever are those of the believers given eternal life in Jesus Christ.

See Matthew10:28 "And do not fear those who kill the body BUT CANNOT KILL THE SOUL. Rather fear HIM WHO CAN DESTROY BOTH SOUL AND BODY IN HELL/GEHENNA.

Notice how it says can God can kill the soul. The Bible doesn't speak of humans as having immortality unless they are saved.

God bless!!!!

Tom

I think you could be right about this. Jesus also said "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

He wasn't talking about the flesh perishing, he was talking about the soul. To say your are going to be conscious in hell forever and ever would mean you would have a form of everlasting life, an unpleasant form of everlasting life, but everlasting life never the less. Jesus said only those who believe in him will live forever.

...but I'm not sure

 

[Tombo]

I think you could be right about this. Jesus also said "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

He wasn't talking about the flesh perishing, he was talking about the soul. To say your are going to be conscious in hell forever and ever would mean you would have a form of everlasting life, an unpleasant form of everlasting life, but everlasting life never the less. Jesus said only those who believe in him will live forever.

...but I'm not sure

That's exactly true!!!! The contrast is always life or death. You can read through other posts here to see other Bible references I've given.

Just as an example, see 1st John 3:15 "Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."

God bless!!!!

Tom

 

[GreenNnice]

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Our souls can't burn up can they?

---+
This is a rhetorical question then, based on your given verse, matt. 10:28, believe it or not, tommybogood. Read it VERY closely .

Matthew 10:28: And do not fear those who can kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who can destroy both body and soul in hell.'

Krisbri quote is a hint to : but i'm not sure.
--+
And, thanks, tommybEgood, you are WHO (CATCH that, tommy ? I saw this lead singer's play on broadway , spectacular)) helped me start another thread on our 'soul's' resting place after everything is said and done, death, dying, with Christ, 1000 year reign, post-trib stuff before Satan fire into a bottomless pit (talk about freefallin' ) , tom, hopefully i don't sounds too petty noow. Just having fun with you if you CAN allow it.

Blessings, Christ bro.

 

[Tombo]

---+
This is a rhetorical question then, based on your given verse, matt. 10:28, believe it or not, tommybogood. Read it VERY closely .

Matthew 10:28: And do not fear those who can kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who can destroy both body and soul in hell.'

Krisbri quote is a hint to : but i'm not sure.
--+
And, thanks, tommybEgood, you are WHO (CATCH that, tommy ? I saw this lead singer's play on broadway , spectacular)) helped me start another thread on our 'soul's' resting place after everything is said and done, death, dying, with Christ, 1000 year reign, post-trib stuff before Satan fire into a bottomless pit (talk about freefallin' ) , tom, hopefully i don't sounds too petty noow. Just having fun with you if you CAN allow it.

Blessings, Christ bro.

I catch your humor, GreenNnice. I know of the rock group "The Who", and Chuck berry's Johnny B. Goode.
I'm glad my post on the true meaning of hell has you searching it out on your own. That was the purpose of my post, to prod people to search God's word to see if these things are so.
God bless, my friend!!!!

Tom

 

[GreenNnice]

----
Our souls can't burn up can they?

I catch your humor, GreenNnice. I know of the rock group "The Who", and Chuck berry's Johnny B. Goode.
I'm glad my post on the true meaning of hell has you searching it out on your own. That was the purpose of my post, to prod people to search God's word to see if these things are so.
God bless, my friend!!!!

Tom

---
Good, good, Tom, but I knoweth that I am not JUST humoring you now, I am asking you to meticulously go through each word of your Matthew 10:28 verse, in scripture, through critics, etc. and let your mind be spoken Truth.

Like John 16: 12-15 says, when it is time, only THEN you CAN understand Truth of Heaven , hell, or, understand anything , and, after that, we CAN do anything
Phil. 4:13. But there is sometímes time for us, not just Jesus who was speaking to the apostles, to have to wait for God's truth to sink in so we CAN truly understand it, tommybegood, and, when that time comes, the Lord leads, you CAN'T be fooled again

 

[Tombo]

---
Good, good, Tom, but I knoweth that I am not JUST humoring you now, I am asking you to meticulously go through each word of your Matthew 10:28 verse, in scripture, through critics, etc. and let your mind be spoken Truth.

Like John 16: 12-15 says, when it is time, only THEN you CAN understand Truth of Heaven , hell, or, understand anything , and, after that, we CAN do anything
Phil. 4:13. But there is sometímes time for us, not just Jesus who was speaking to the apostles, to have to wait for God's truth to sink in so we CAN truly understand it, tommybegood, and, when that time comes, the Lord leads, you CAN'T be fooled again

I'm not really sure what you don't understand in that verse. And I did go over in this thread about the use of the word hell for the word gehenna. If you go through some of the posts you will see that I explained that.
God bless!!!!

Tom

 

[GreenNnice]

Only God has immortal life. The only souls that will live forever are those of the believers given eternal life in Jesus Christ.

See Matthew10:28 "And do not fear those who kill the body BUT CANNOT KILL THE SOUL. Rather fear HIM WHO CAN DESTROY BOTH SOUL AND BODY IN HELL/GEHENNA.

Notice how it says can God can kill the soul. The Bible doesn't speak of humans as having immortality unless they are saved.

God bless!!!!

Tom

Tom, here is what I am saying.....

Dear Lord...Amen.

God says in matt. 10:28 that He CAN destroy body and soul.

What does this 'can' word do to your whole argument of God destroying the sinners' souls in the end, before He goes off to be with believers forever?

Destroy it?

 

[enochson]

Tom, here is what I am saying.....

Dear Lord...Amen.

God says in matt. 10:28 that He CAN destroy body and soul.

What does this 'can' word do to your whole argument of God destroying the sinners' souls in the end, before He goes off to be with believers forever?

Destroy it?

But isn't that what christ did on the cross? He killed the body of adam's flesh and change the soul of man to the new nature of the new creation.

 

[loveme1]

But isn't that what christ did on the cross? He killed the body of adam's flesh and change the soul of man to the new nature of the new creation.

Where do you get these ideas?

 

[enochson]

Where do you get these ideas?

The bible "I have been cruified with Christ" and "Behold old things have past away behold all things become new." If the body was cruified then what left since the spirit goes back to God who give it that leaves the soul doesn't it? WE WALK BY FAITH AND NOT BY SIGHT.

 

[2knowhim]

Where do you get these ideas?

From Rom.


1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

 

[GreenNnice]

Tom, here is what I am saying.....

Dear Lord...Amen.

God says in matt. 10:28 that He CAN destroy body and soul.

What does this 'can' word do to your whole argument of God destroying the sinners' souls in the end, before He goes off to be with believers forever?

Destroy it?

-----
I will.answer the question , tombo, and, sorry if my humorless 2nd statement offended , I meant no.harm, the Lord leads, and, I am green and nice.

---
The word 'can' don't you think would have been another word, a more permanent word like 'will,' ?

Did our Divine use the wrong word?

 

[Tombo]

-----
I will.answer the question , tombo, and, sorry if my humorless 2nd statement offended , I meant no.harm, the Lord leads, and, I am green and nice.

---
The word 'can' don't you think would have been another word, a more permanent word like 'will,' ?

Did our Divine use the wrong word?

That threat is given to warn people. If God doesn't intend to destoy anyone, then the warning Jesus gave would be empty. Man can (and often does) kill the body. God can (and will) destroy both the body and soul of the unsaved at the judgement.

Tom

 

[GreenNnice]

That threat is given to warn people. If God doesn't intend to destoy anyone, then the warning Jesus gave would be empty. Man can (and often does) kill the body. God can (and will) destroy both the body and soul of the unsaved at the judgement.

Tom

Fair enough , Tom. But I believe that we CAN really not truly KNOW what will happen to unbelievers' souls when they die, thetefore, I do not want to greatly err thinking doctrine is saying one thing when it could indeed not be saying what I think it says at all. God does not want us to.be false teachers.

God will punish false teachers, forget being lucky and getting to wait until you die for that judgment, you will get God's wrath and rage on Earth

God bless you, too, Tom, i pray your zeal to rescue people with this 'punishment and destroying of souls' doctrine understanding does not cause God to deal with you harshly, because, I truly believe He could because you are lessening the motivation of people to stay moral .

And, 2knowHim's belief of 'a Loving God won't send ANYONE to Hades' is even more the doctrine that will
(Not 'can') make believers think doing sinful things now is fine , and, that will unleash God's wrath on that kind of great stumbling of believers.

My beliefs of teaching wrong doctrine. But will this kind of doctrine teaching cause your soul to go to Hades?
I am not Judge, but, as I feel, 2knowhim, tombo, others 'beliefs of hell state, i feel they are saying them.out of personal understanding which is ignorance and God will open the Truth up to you for this 'Paul' persecution of others.