Are the dead dead or do they keep on liveing?..............

IMINJC · Mar 14, 2012

PEACEFULBELIEVER

You know I really like you. I think you have the perfect name because I sense in you the peace of our Lord Jesus Christ. I sense it in how you post..... So I mean no disrespect towards you at all in what I'm about to say...(Smile)

You Said: No, the Bible does not come out and say that "this is a parable". We are to study to show ourselves approved unto God -

Don't ignore my second fact: Jesus does not denounce soul conciousness after death..instead He continues to tell this story that supports my view and He says NOTHING in support of yours.

Now you listed quite a few scriptures that you believe supports soul sleep (actually all of the scriptures you posted supports Body Sleep at the point of death.... The dead body doesn't know anything at death because the Soul/Spirit has vacated it...It certainly can't praise God or give Him praise...but I digress.)

Out of all of those scriptures, why didn't Jesus quote one of them when He finished the story to remind us of the truth of soul sleep? The fact that He chose to quote Abraham DEMANDS an explanation...but He gives none...So we must believe Him at His Word...If He says Abraham spoke these words (Without Any Explanation To Refute It) Then we must accept it and believe that Abraham spoke these words.

If all of those wonderful verses of scripture that you posted is definate proof that soul sleep is true, well then none can deny that Jesus was not only careless but very foolish to quote Abraham, while giving no explanation to set the record straight. He was foolish because if your correct..it makes Him a Liar. Any unbiased person can see that this is true what I keep saying. You and other soul sleep believers refuse to see it...but any other on-looker who does not have a dog in this fight can see it CLEARLY.

WOULD YOU HAVE TOLD THIS STORY AS JESUS DID AND NOT GIVEN AN EXPLANATION? No you would not have..and your lying if you say you would have...So I guess your smarter than Jesus.

IMINJC · Mar 14, 2012

LAODICEA

Let me say that I think you are very knowledgeable and I enjoy reading your posts. So don't take me the wrong way when I respond to your posts, I mean no disrespect at all.

You Said: "Are you saying that your whole doctrine is formed on 3 words?

No what I'm saying is I only need three words to prove that soul sleep is a false doctrine.

My doctrine along these lines is quite vast...I don't use it here a lot because I don't need it. I'll leave that up to "Redd33" and the others.

Laodicea · Mar 14, 2012

IMINJC said:

Since you say your doctrine is vast along these lines then you should have no problem explaining my previous post instead of relying on others. I want you to explain the verses I quoted by using the Bible not to show verses that you think refute that for that is only making it look like the Bible contradicts itself.

peacefulbeliever · Mar 14, 2012

IMINJC said:

If I accept that those words were actually spoken by Abraham; then every where God says the dead are dead; that they are in the grave; and that they are in silence - I have to believe that He lied. I can not do so. There are over 200 figures of speech used in the Bible; a parable being one of them. A figure of speech is used for emphasis and in this case Jesus was taking the doctrine of the Pharisees, who believed in rewards and punishments immediately upon death. Jesus uses this parable to condemn the Pharisees and to catch them in their own erroneous beliefs. And beside this, Jesus would never have contradicted the word of God taught in the OT. We can not base doctrine on one section of scripture but on the whole of the word of God. Now you are telling me that Abraham actually said what Jesus is telling the Pharisees - How is it that he can speak? I am not saying that Jesus was a liar - I am saying that the purpose he said what he did was to teach a lesson to the Pharisees. Jesus Christ, the Son of God, would never say anything in opposition to his Father.

Soul and spirit are not the same - Soul is your breath life - when you die you quit breathing - you are no longer a living soul. You do not know anything, you can not speak, you are in silence. The spirit returns to God - Do I know what happens with the spirit after that? No because the word of God is silent on that so I have to remain silent.

Would I have told this story as Jesus did and not give an explanation - If God gave me the revelation to tell this story; then yes, but he didn't so that question is really senseless. Really there was no need of explanation - the Pharisees knew exactly what he was talking about.

No one but Jesus Christ has ascended into heaven.
Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens. . . .
1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

Christ is the only - only - one to be raised from the dead.

Red33 · Mar 15, 2012

peacefulbeliever said:

When we die we are absent from the body and our soul is present with the Lord. Thank God our soul is taken to heaven to be with God. Then when Christ comes back for the church prior to the great tribulation coming upon the earth, those whose bodies are dead (or asleep) in Christ shall rise first and will be reunited with there souls in the air with those that are alive to met the Lord in the air.

In heaven every believer that was absent from their physical had a soul body. Moses, Elijah, Abraham and Samuel all had soul bodies as saints of the OT and could be recognized. The disciples recognized Moses and Elijah on that mount. Peter, James and John were not hallucinating and even suggested building a tabernacle for each one. The mystery that shrouds this place called Paradise, for some it is symbolic and for others it is literal, but it's location was first in the center of the earth and later, after the resurrection of Christ, was taken into heaven and is the one that Paul refers to in (2Cor 12:2-4)...

2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth, such an one caught up to the third heaven.
3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth,
4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

This is not a parable nor is it symbolism, but rather an actual occurrence that Paul knew about that happened (14) years prior to recording this story. Shall we trust his story that he is conveying that is shroud with mystery? He speaks of a man being CAUGHT UP to the third heaven, WHETHER IN THE BODY OR OUT OF THE BODY HE COULD NOT TELL, ONLY GOD KNOWS. Isn't that interesting that it just might have been an outer body experience. My goodness are we dealing with witchcraft or astro-projections in this passage?

Perhaps this is just a vision without any eternal reality or truth connected to it. Paul said that 'he knew a man' and not 'I had a vision'. According to (2Cor 2:1) was this a vision or a revelation? Was Paul trying to illustrate any kind of truth in this or was he trying to make a point without any reality attached? Should we watch out for Paul because he just might be a little OFF on this one. He left it a mystery whether in the body or out of the body, he couldn't tell, but God knows and it did happen and this man was caught up to the third heaven. How can that be, for no man is in heaven according to some, yet this man ascended. Paul brought God into the reality of this experience and one of knowing. This all happened after Christ had ascended to the right hand of the Father so it's NT.

He also repeats again and compares it to being CAUGHT UP into PARADISE and actually heard unspeakable words that were unlawful for man to utter. Whether this man was in the body or out of the body, he still went to the third heaven, PARADISE, and heard unspeakable words. Is this possible, especially coming from such a converted Pharisee, from the tribe of Benjamin and blameless as touching the law? Certainly this man is not overtaken by fables or false doctrine and to make sure that he does not exalt himself as one given so much revelation, he is given a torn (a demon) in the flesh to buffet him and continually beat him up over and over, so much so that he prays three time that it would be taken from him (2Cor 12:7-90. We have this same PARADISE mentioned in (Rev 2:7).

We have Jesus speaking on the cross to the malefactor that he would be with him that very day in PARADISE. The comma is exactly in the right place in that verse in (Lk 23:43). If anyone says different they are contrary to the faith because this came from the lips of Christ as He was being crucified. We can put this with (Eph 4:9)...

9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

This is the place of Abraham's bosom, the place that Jesus promised the malefactor they would go and descend into the lower parts of the earth upon their death at the cross. This would be Hades, that had two compartments separated by a great gulf. Abraham's bosom and Paradise are the same location of the OT saints, or as referred to in (Heb 12:23) the spirit of just men made perfect, believe it or not. The rich man who was not converted by the mercy of God went to the hell part where there was torment from burning flames. All you allegorical and symbolic parable lovers couldn't see or perceive truth in this story if it hit you up side of the face and then slipped around your back side and kicked you in the pants.

Laodicea · Mar 15, 2012

2 Corinthians 12:1-4
(1) It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
(2) I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth

such an one caught up to the third heaven.
(3) And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth

(4) How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
Acts 18:9
(9) Then spake the Lord to Paul in the night by a vision, Be not afraid, but speak, and hold not thy peace:
Numbers 12:6
(6) And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.

Ephesians 4:9-10
(9) (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
(10) He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
John 3:13
(13) And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

IMINJC · Mar 15, 2012

PEACEFULBELIVER

YOU SAID: "If I accept that those words were actually spoken by Abraham; then every where God says the dead are dead; that they are in the grave; and that they are in silence - I have to believe that He lied."

"Peacfulbeliever"... its really sad that you would actually believe that "God Lied" before you would even consider or accept the fact that MAYBE just MAYBY your doctrine or your understanding of the verses are wrong. This is a great example of how and why people love their doctrine more than truth.

YOU SAID: "If I accept that those words were actually spoken by Abraham;"

This is my entire point...this is why there is no reason to discuss this topic any further than this. Jesus said that Abraham spoke these words..THAT IS A FACT...You refuse to accept that fact because of your doctrine. Any attempt to diminish this fact can only be done in the rantings of someone's opinion....The FACTS of scripture always out weighs a mans opinion.

Wanna see something that is not a fact?

"Jesus was taking the doctrine of the Pharisees, who believed in rewards and punishments immediately upon death. Jesus uses this parable to condemn the Pharisees and to catch them in their own erroneous beliefs. "

This is how you have been taught, this is your opinion or your interpretation.... (IF).... Jesus was using this as a parable, and that of course is very debateable... so therfore it is not a fact. In this case you ignore the FACTS that scripture gives us and use your opinion to dismiss that FACT to support your doctrine.

Thats the difference between you and me. I NEVER ignore the FACTS of scripture. If I'm shown a FACT, and my theology or doctrine doesn't line up with that FACT...then I adjust my theology or doctrine to fit that FACT...I don't try to re-shape the FACT to fit my theology.

IMINJC · Mar 15, 2012

PEACEFULBELIEVER

YOU SAID: "And beside this, Jesus would never have contradicted the word of God taught in the OT. We can not base doctrine on one section of scripture but on the whole of the word of God."

The story that Jesus told TOTALLY contradicts your understanding of those OT verses. That's why I say (for your sake) that an explanation is demanded...but He gave you none.

So rather than say that your understanding of these OT scriptures may be wrong..you say "Oh Jesus must have been telling a parable because that story contradicts my beliefs."

Jesus owes me no explanation here because the story that He told TOTALLY agrees and confirms my understanding of those OT verses.

YOU SAID: We can not base doctrine on one section of scripture but on the whole of the word of God."

If that one section of scripture revealed a certain FACT that contradicted something that we once thought was true, especially if that truth was based on someones opinion or interpretation of scripture...then that one section of scripture needs to be received.

redemption · Mar 15, 2012

Laodicea said:

2 Corinthians 12:1-4
(1) It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
(2) I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth

such an one caught up to the third heaven.
(3) And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth

(4) How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
Acts 18:9
(9) Then spake the Lord to Paul in the night by a vision, Be not afraid, but speak, and hold not thy peace:
Numbers 12:6
(6) And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.

Ephesians 4:9-10
(9) (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
(10) He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
John 3:13
(13) And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

John 3:13 Jesus descended from Heaven? - YouTube

shroom2 · Mar 15, 2012

Red33 said:

peacefulbeliever said:

No, we are dead. Our soul does not live on after we die.

But it isn't. People do not split into various parts when we die. We die.

No, when Christ returns, those who are dead in Christ will be raised from the dead, and united with Christ. Nowhere does the bible say anything about dead bodies and living souls being reunited.

There is no such thing as a "soul body".

No, they are dead. The events you are referring to are either visions, or devil spirits impersonating dead people.

As it plainly says, the transfiguration was a vision.

Paradise will be here on earth, and is still future. Paul was taken by revelation (he received a vision) of what the third (future) heaven (Rev 21) and earth will be like.

No, we are dealing with revelation.

Yes.

God gave Paul revelation of the future third heaven and earth. It is future. Paul did not travel through time. God showed him what it will be like.

Yes. Jesus died. He descended to the grave. He was dead. Paradise was not underground. The concept is ludicrous.

And you have fallen for the devil's lie that the dead aren't really dead. He has you right where he wants you, Red. Believing a lie.

Red33 · Mar 15, 2012

Red33 said:

peacefulbeliever said:

I can tell by the way some have answered this post that they haven't studied this passage or even know what's going on. They have already come to their own conclusions without studying a single thing about it. They are oblivious to what happened to this man and how it relates to the third heaven and Paradise. They just go on in their soul-death-sleep doctrine and do not even comprehend what Paul was communicating. God told Paul plenty of what was going to happen in the future with the church by revelation and never referred to his or another's soul (body) being separated from the physical material body. Even in the context of what was said you can see that it was possible for a man to be out of the body just by what Paul said, 'in the body or out of the body'. Some have a difficult time being objective with the truth because of their stubborn obstinate hearts.

There is not a single verb in this passage that has any future tense or even relates to a future event, so whoever thinks it to be relating to some future event, they just don't know their Bible. The verbs are in the perfect tense and relates to something that is a past completed act. You would think that the reference of (14 yrs ago) might be a hint to a past event that already took place but some just can't rid themselves of their 'dead' doctrine. There are some that are reading this thread that could say something but won't and they should so that others won't be so bold in their foolishness.

Laodicea · Mar 15, 2012

redemption said:

Ephesians 4:9-10
(9) (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
(10) He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
John 3:13-14
(13) And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
(14) And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
John 3:31
(31) He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.
John 6:38
(38) For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

jonathanbchristian · Mar 15, 2012

moses and elijah were alive during the transfiguration. luke 9:28-36

krisbrian · Mar 15, 2012

IMINJC said:

This is good advice for all to follow

peacefulbeliever · Mar 15, 2012

Red33 said:

When we die we are absent from the body and our soul is present with the Lord. Thank God our soul is taken to heaven to be with God. Then when Christ comes back for the church prior to the great tribulation coming upon the earth, those whose bodies are dead (or asleep) in Christ shall rise first and will be reunited with there souls in the air with those that are alive to met the Lord in the air.

In heaven every believer that was absent from their physical had a soul body. Moses, Elijah, Abraham and Samuel all had soul bodies as saints of the OT and could be recognized. The disciples recognized Moses and Elijah on that mount. Peter, James and John were not hallucinating and even suggested building a tabernacle for each one. The mystery that shrouds this place called Paradise, for some it is symbolic and for others it is literal, but it's location was first in the center of the earth and later, after the resurrection of Christ, was taken into heaven and is the one that Paul refers to in (2Cor 12:2-4)...

2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth, such an one caught up to the third heaven.
3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth,
4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

This is not a parable nor is it symbolism, but rather an actual occurrence that Paul knew about that happened (14) years prior to recording this story. Shall we trust his story that he is conveying that is shroud with mystery? He speaks of a man being CAUGHT UP to the third heaven, WHETHER IN THE BODY OR OUT OF THE BODY HE COULD NOT TELL, ONLY GOD KNOWS. Isn't that interesting that it just might have been an outer body experience. My goodness are we dealing with witchcraft or astro-projections in this passage?

Perhaps this is just a vision without any eternal reality or truth connected to it. Paul said that 'he knew a man' and not 'I had a vision'. According to (2Cor 2:1) was this a vision or a revelation? Was Paul trying to illustrate any kind of truth in this or was he trying to make a point without any reality attached? Should we watch out for Paul because he just might be a little OFF on this one. He left it a mystery whether in the body or out of the body, he couldn't tell, but God knows and it did happen and this man was caught up to the third heaven. How can that be, for no man is in heaven according to some, yet this man ascended. Paul brought God into the reality of this experience and one of knowing. This all happened after Christ had ascended to the right hand of the Father so it's NT.

He also repeats again and compares it to being CAUGHT UP into PARADISE and actually heard unspeakable words that were unlawful for man to utter. Whether this man was in the body or out of the body, he still went to the third heaven, PARADISE, and heard unspeakable words. Is this possible, especially coming from such a converted Pharisee, from the tribe of Benjamin and blameless as touching the law? Certainly this man is not overtaken by fables or false doctrine and to make sure that he does not exalt himself as one given so much revelation, he is given a torn (a demon) in the flesh to buffet him and continually beat him up over and over, so much so that he prays three time that it would be taken from him (2Cor 12:7-90. We have this same PARADISE mentioned in (Rev 2:7).

We have Jesus speaking on the cross to the malefactor that he would be with him that very day in PARADISE. The comma is exactly in the right place in that verse in (Lk 23:43). If anyone says different they are contrary to the faith because this came from the lips of Christ as He was being crucified. We can put this with (Eph 4:9)...

9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

This is the place of Abraham's bosom, the place that Jesus promised the malefactor they would go and descend into the lower parts of the earth upon their death at the cross. This would be Hades, that had two compartments separated by a great gulf. Abraham's bosom and Paradise are the same location of the OT saints, or as referred to in (Heb 12:23) the spirit of just men made perfect, believe it or not. The rich man who was not converted by the mercy of God went to the hell part where there was torment from burning flames. All you allegorical and symbolic parable lovers couldn't see or perceive truth in this story if it hit you up side of the face and then slipped around your back side and kicked you in the pants.

Shroom2 did a great job answering this post. There's just a couple of things I would like to say.

There seems to be difficulty with "soul and spirit". The body/soul of a man ends when he takes his last breath - he is no longer a living soul. The body/soul of man is where he talks, where he sees (other five senses) and where the thoughts of man, the emotions of man, etc. go to the grave in silence. Period - that is what is said about that. The "spirit" returns to God. Period - there is nothing else said regarding that. I can even come close to agreeing with:

In saying that the "spirit" goes back to God and lies dormant until the ressurrection. But like I said I can only go as far as Ecc. 12:7 on the matter.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice. His voice will be heard and that is not in heaven, nor in paradise; nor in Abraham's bosom - but by those in the GRAVES.
Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. Those who "awake" in the resurrection will be those "that sleep in the dust of the earth."

peacefulbeliever · Mar 15, 2012

IMINJC said:

PEACEFULBELIVER

YOU SAID: "If I accept that those words were actually spoken by Abraham; then every where God says the dead are dead; that they are in the grave; and that they are in silence - I have to believe that He lied."

"Peacfulbeliever"... its really sad that you would actually believe that "God Lied" before you would even consider or accept the fact that MAYBE just MAYBY your doctrine or your understanding of the verses are wrong. This is a great example of how and why people love their doctrine more than truth.
YOU SAID: "If I accept that those words were actually spoken by Abraham;"

This is my entire point...this is why there is no reason to discuss this topic any further than this. Jesus said that Abraham spoke these words..THAT IS A FACT...You refuse to accept that fact because of your doctrine. Any attempt to diminish this fact can only be done in the rantings of someone's opinion....The FACTS of scripture always out weighs a mans opinion.

Wanna see something that is not a fact?

"Jesus was taking the doctrine of the Pharisees, who believed in rewards and punishments immediately upon death. Jesus uses this parable to condemn the Pharisees and to catch them in their own erroneous beliefs. "

This is how you have been taught, this is your opinion or your interpretation.... (IF).... Jesus was using this as a parable, and that of course is very debateable... so therfore it is not a fact. In this case you ignore the FACTS that scripture gives us and use your opinion to dismiss that FACT to support your doctrine.

Thats the difference between you and me. I NEVER ignore the FACTS of scripture. If I'm shown a FACT, and my theology or doctrine doesn't line up with that FACT...then I adjust my theology or doctrine to fit that FACT...I don't try to re-shape the FACT to fit my theology.[/quote]

I did not say that "I believed God Lied" I said "if I believed that Abraham literally spoke those words I would have to believe that God lied". I love God and respect the His word and I have already posted verses concerning what He says about the dead - so if I believe that what He says regarding the dead then how can I believe that dead people are talking, showing emotion, etc. That is complete contradiction

peacefulbeliever · Mar 15, 2012

IMINJC said:

The Pharisees needed no explanation. They knew exactly what he was saying.

God's word does not change. He means what he says where he says it when he says it and how he says it. Therefore when he says the dead are in silence, they have no memory, nor emotions then that is truth and what should be carried out through scripture. To say that people have gone to heaven, paradise, Abraham's bosom, etc. - is to contradict what God has said. No one has ascended into heaven except the Son of God.

Laodicea · Mar 16, 2012

jonathanbchristian said:

The transfiguration was a type of the coming of Christ
Mark 9:1-4
(1) And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
(2) And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.
(3) And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.
(4) And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.

Moses died and was resurrected
Deuteronomy 34:5-7
(5) So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD.
(6) And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day.
(7) And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.
Jude 1:9
(9) Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

The devil disputed because Moses was resurrected.

Elijah was translated
2 Kings 2:11
(11) And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

Elijah represents those who will be alive when Jesus returns and will be translated while Moses represents those who have died in the Lord who will be resurrected.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-17
(13) But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
(14) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring (lead way) with him.
(15) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
(16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

krisbrian · Mar 16, 2012

Soul sleepers really rob themselves of the peace of mind of knowing your loved ones are with the father.

Satan and his demons are alive......

Those that love God are dead I guess.

God will not leave his children dead in a grave....while satan and demons live. get real

The Devil and demons live? while Gods children are dead in a grave? I think not

krisbrian · Mar 16, 2012

My Father is a loving Father and he wont leave my soul in hell (hades)

Are the dead dead or do they keep on liveing?..............

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