Are the dead dead or do they keep on liveing?..............

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I

IMINJC

Guest
#241
#241
SHROOM2

YOU SAID: That is purely your opinion, and not backed up with scripture. You cannot show a place where it says if a name is used it's automatically true.

Neither does it say anywhere in scripture that the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus is a parable. So everything you have said is definitely your opinion.

I tell you what 0the Bible does say...It says Abraham spoke when you soul sleepers say he should have been sleep. LoL.....Show me your scriptural proof that the Bible calls this a parable without giving your own opinion. Good luck! LoL
 
R

redemption

Guest
#242
#242
IMINJC & Red33 excellent posts that they choose not to read. They will be read though and the spirit of truth that is within them will be placed upon the hearts of the readers. Bless your hearts :)
 
R

redemption

Guest
#243
#243
Do you know whats cool? When I had my son I briefly left my body and was at the ceiling of the operating room looking down upon the scene. Awesome validation that I am not just my body. As for you who dont agree, go ahead be dust & worms & maggots...as for me, I'll be joining the heavenly host in song praising my beautiful Lord.
 
I

IMINJC

Guest
#244
#244
SHROOM2.

YOU SAID: That is purely your opinion, and not backed up with scripture. You cannot show a place where it says if a name is used it's automatically true.

You go talk to someone that understands the disciplines and rules of story telling and see if they won't tell you that this is not a parable and make sure you tell them what you believe..they will tell you that they don't know if your belief is right or wrong, but they do know that the stoy teller of this story believes these events to be true and if your belief is correct this story teller (Jesus) is lying. ....look it up yourself.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#245
#245
IMINJC said:
SHROOM2

YOU SAID: That is purely your opinion, and not backed up with scripture. You cannot show a place where it says if a name is used it's automatically true.

Neither does it say anywhere in scripture that the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus is a parable. So everything you have said is definitely your opinion.

I tell you what 0the Bible does say...It says Abraham spoke when you soul sleepers say he should have been sleep. LoL.....Show me your scriptural proof that the Bible calls this a parable without giving your own opinion. Good luck! LoL
Click to expand...
Answer this question
Genesis 4:10
(10) And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.

Was Abel's blood actually crying to God or was God Lying? Or does it mean something else?



 
R

redemption

Guest
#246
#246
Laodicea said:
Answer this question
Genesis 4:10
(10) And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.

Was Abel's blood actually crying to God or was God Lying? Or does it mean something else?
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Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Was Jesus telling him he's going to paradise or was he lying? I reflect on why he'd even say this out loud for the one beside him would know soon enough. Perhaps its because his words werent for the benefit of the receiver but those who bare witness. Bless your heart.
 
I

IMINJC

Guest
#248
#248
LAODICEA.

You Have a lot of nerve to ask me any kind of question since you have played the role of the coward and have refused to answer my question to you. I should tell you what Jesus told the idiots in His day and refuse to answer your stupid question. But since I don't avoid questions like you do no matter how stupid they may be here goes..... Fact is Cain killed Abel, his blood was spilled on the ground and God was not suposed to know that. When God said Abel's blood cried from the ground to Him no one is alarmed because we all know this is a figuree of speech to let Cain know that God knows he killed his brother. So no God is not a Liar...but Jesus is according to your doctrine if soul sleep is true...and you know it.
 
2knowhim

2knowhim

Banned
#249
Oct 12, 2011
1,123
3
0
#249
redemption said:
Do you know whats cool? When I had my son I briefly left my body and was at the ceiling of the operating room looking down upon the scene. Awesome validation that I am not just my body. As for you who dont agree, go ahead be dust & worms & maggots...as for me, I'll be joining the heavenly host in song praising my beautiful Lord.
Click to expand...
I agree, I too have had that same kind of out of body experience, and we are very much alive.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#250
#250
IMINJC said:
LAODICEA.

You Have a lot of nerve to ask me any kind of question since you have played the role of the coward and have refused to answer my question to you. I should tell you what Jesus told the idiots in His day and refuse to answer your stupid question. But since I don't avoid questions like you do no matter how stupid they may be here goes..... Fact is Cain killed Abel, his blood was spilled on the ground and God was not suposed to know that. When God said Abel's blood cried from the ground to Him no one is alarmed because we all know this is a figuree of speech to let Cain know that God knows he killed his brother. So no God is not a Liar...but Jesus is according to your doctrine if soul sleep is true...and you know it.
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If you read my posts I did answer your question. I showed from the Bible why it is a parable. Since the blood was symbolic then maybe Abraham says that by what he believed and by his works.
 
I

IMINJC

Guest
#251
#251
LAODICEA.

I do read you posts very carefully even on other threads.....my apologies if I missed your answering my question, but I don't believe that I did. I think you just continued to give your opinion as to how the story is a parable, I don't think you addressed the question directly.. I again apologize if you did and I missed it. All of your posts I find scripturaly sound of course apart from this subject of soul sleep.
 
S

shroom2

Banned
#252
Apr 13, 2011
2,229
11
0
#252
IMINJC said:
SHROOM2

YOU SAID: That is purely your opinion, and not backed up with scripture. You cannot show a place where it says if a name is used it's automatically true.

Neither does it say anywhere in scripture that the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus is a parable. So everything you have said is definitely your opinion.

I tell you what 0the Bible does say...It says Abraham spoke when you soul sleepers say he should have been sleep. LoL.....Show me your scriptural proof that the Bible calls this a parable without giving your own opinion. Good luck! LoL
Click to expand...
Laodicia has done a very good job at that. Read back several posts.
 
S

shroom2

Banned
#253
Apr 13, 2011
2,229
11
0
#253
IMINJC said:
SHROOM2.

YOU SAID: That is purely your opinion, and not backed up with scripture. You cannot show a place where it says if a name is used it's automatically true.

You go talk to someone that understands the disciplines and rules of story telling and see if they won't tell you that this is not a parable and make sure you tell them what you believe..they will tell you that they don't know if your belief is right or wrong, but they do know that the stoy teller of this story believes these events to be true and if your belief is correct this story teller (Jesus) is lying. ....look it up yourself.
Click to expand...
You will not change your mind no matter what I say, or what I show you.

Do you really believe that Abraham was sitting there with Lazarus at his bosom, surrounded by hundreds of thousands (millions?) of other dead believers, and "just across the gulf" were millions of people screaming in their torments? And that those supposedly in Paradise get to spend their relaxing days listening to those screams? Is that really the picture you have of Paradise?

Not me.

It was a parable.

We'll find out what is right, that's certain.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#254
#254
IMINJC said:
LAODICEA.

I do read you posts very carefully even on other threads.....my apologies if I missed your answering my question, but I don't believe that I did. I think you just continued to give your opinion as to how the story is a parable, I don't think you addressed the question directly.. I again apologize if you did and I missed it. All of your posts I find scripturaly sound of course apart from this subject of soul sleep.
Click to expand...

In case you missed it this is a previous post on this thread
The story in Luke 16 is a parable for the following reasons:-
The whole chapter needs to be read in context not just the parable by itself. Jesus first tells a parable in verses 1-13 and after hearing the parable this is how the Pharisees reacted
Luke 16:14
(14) And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.

Jesus response becomes more direct to them and the parable of the rich man and Lazarus is part of that response. It must be noted what Jesus is discussing with the Pharisees, He was discussing that future destiny is determined by the use men make of the opportunities of this present life, that is the context in which this parable must be understood. Jesus is not discussing either the state of man in death or the time when rewards will be passed out.

If the story is real then Jesus would have contradicted Himself when He said that people are rewarded when He returns.
Matthew 16:27
(27) For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Matthew 25:31-33
(31) When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
(32) And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
(33) And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Matthew 25:34
(34) Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Matthew 25:41
(41) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 22:12
(12) And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
#255
#255
Here is some more info from another post

In the strictest sense of the word, the rich man represents the Pharisees. This is true for at least five reasons:
1) The rich man addressed Abraham as father and Abraham addressed Lazarus as son (Lk. 16:24, 25, 27, 30). The Jews in general, but the Pharisees in particular claimed Abraham as their father (see, Jn. 8:37-44; Mt. 3:9).

2) The Pharisees claimed to have a special closeness to Abraham. Jesus would never have described the Gentiles as being in the “bosom of Abraham”.

3) The rich man had five brothers. These could very well represent the other Jewish denominations of Christ’s day: The Sadducees, the Herodians, the Scribes, the Zealots and the Essenes.

4) It is clear that the rich man believed in the immortality of the soul because he asked Abraham to send someone to his brother from among the dead (verse 30). This is precisely what the Pharisees believed!

5) The brothers of the rich man “had Moses and the Prophets” (verse 31). It was the Jews who had Moses and the Prophets (Jn.5:39-46).

There are several parallel words in this passage to the parable of the rich man and Lazarus: Crumbs, dogs, table, children. This would indicate that Lazarus represents the gentiles. The Jews called the gentiles, “stones” (Mt. 3:9-10), “dogs” (Mt. 15:26) and “swine” (Mt. 7:6)


So because it is a parable or figurative then this verse is also
Luke 16:29
(29) Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

The blood of Abel did not actually cry to God it was figurative so Abraham did not have to actually say that But, his works and what he believed says that. Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees who claimed to have Abraham as their father so they were well aware that Abraham would have believed that.
 
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G

GreenNnice

Guest
#256
#256
shroom2 said:
You will not change your mind no matter what I say, or what I show you.

Do you really believe that Abraham was sitting there with Lazarus at his bosom, surrounded by hundreds of thousands (millions?) of other dead believers, and "just across the gulf" were millions of people screaming in their torments? And that those supposedly in Paradise get to spend their relaxing days listening to those screams? Is that really the picture you have of Paradise?

Not me.

It was a parable.

We'll find out what is right, that's certain.
Click to expand...
-----
It sure is a well thought out, explicitly detailed , parable, as vivid as cold death, like God placed on Sodom and Gomorrah, not to mention His own son.

And, the 'coldness' of those two acts was carried out in harsh reality because why?

2 cities with 100s of people (1000s) were choosing sexual immorality even after God spoke through Lot for them to change their wicked ways.


Christ died for our sins . Jesus sweated drops of blood, not wanting that 'cup' of sacrifice and torture to come from his dad. But come it would !

Shroom2, Laod, you both try to sugar-coat and refute/lessen/unexplain the Truth of Jesus' teaching.

Parable or not, Jesus said it for a reason and the picture painted of hell should make all unbelievers tremble in the real justness of God for those who disobey him, like the 'man of God' in 1 kings 13:20 who KNEW what God wanted him to do. For God's sake, the man of God was a 'prophet,' who told King Jereboam what would happen to him. And, it happened! This man of God was operating (going places) for God's sake ! When this mog disobeyed, and, it was something as being tempted by a 'old prophet,' God killed man of God visciously with lions.

God will exact punishment decisively, and, don't you worry about unbelievers on the wrong side of the Denver, they will have had their CHANCES to decide to follow Jesus, again and again, and, then, at God's appointed time just won't choose Him, no matter what.

Jesus tells parable of Abraham about the rich man who wants his five brothers to know of this awful hell place and Abe says....

Rich man says: "No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the read, they will repent.'

Abraham replied: ' If they do not hear Moses and the prophets (did not believe what's in bible), neither will they be persuaded though (if) one rises from the read.'.
 
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G

GreenNnice

Guest
#257
#257
*edit
read=dead

Denver=gulf or chasm
 
Red33

Red33

Banned
#258
Jun 24, 2010
3,822
19
0
#258
2knowhim said:
Yes, I absolutely agree with you, I think, on every point if I'm understanding you correctly.

You had asked.....where was that life deposited in you and what part of you was redeemed?

I understand The Life of Christ to be deposited in our spirit, Because He is Spirit. He is quickening (making alive) our Soul which is in need of Redemption.

So the part I highlighted is exactly the way I see it, am I understanding it the same as you?
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Ditto, ditto and ditto!
 
S

shroom2

Banned
#259
Apr 13, 2011
2,229
11
0
#259
GreenNnice said:
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It sure is a well thought out, explicitly detailed , parable, as vivid as cold death, like God placed on Sodom and Gomorrah, not to mention His own son.

And, the 'coldness' of those two acts was carried out in harsh reality because why?

2 cities with 100s of people (1000s) were choosing sexual immorality even after God spoke through Lot for them to change their wicked ways.


Christ died for our sins . Jesus sweated drops of blood, not wanting that 'cup' of sacrifice and torture to come from his dad. But come it would !

Shroom2, Laod, you both try to sugar-coat and refute/lessen/unexplain the Truth of Jesus' teaching.
Click to expand...
No, I don't. Nor does Lao.

Parable or not, Jesus said it for a reason
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Yes. The reason is v31

and the picture painted of hell should make all unbelievers tremble in the real justness of God for those who disobey him, like the 'man of God' in 1 kings 13:20 who KNEW what God wanted him to do. For God's sake, the man of God was a 'prophet,' who told King Jereboam what would happen to him. And, it happened! This man of God was operating (going places) for God's sake ! When this mog disobeyed, and, it was something as being tempted by a 'old prophet,' God killed man of God visciously with lions.

God will exact punishment decisively
Click to expand...
Yes, He will. That punishment will be the second death. Permanent destruction. People will not be tortured forever.

and, don't you worry about unbelievers on the wrong side of the Denver, they will have had their CHANCES to decide to follow Jesus, again and again, and, then, at God's appointed time just won't choose Him, no matter what.

Jesus tells parable of Abraham about the rich man who wants his five brothers to know of this awful hell place and Abe says....

Rich man says: "No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the read, they will repent.'

Abraham replied: ' If they do not hear Moses and the prophets (did not believe what's in bible), neither will they be persuaded though (if) one rises from the read.'.
Click to expand...
...and that is the point of the parable.
 
I

IMINJC

Guest
#260
#260
SHROOM2

Do you really believe that Abraham was sitting there with Lazarus at his bosom, surrounded by hundreds of thousands (millions?) of other dead believers, and "just across the gulf" were millions of people screaming in their torments? And that those supposedly in Paradise get to spend their relaxing days listening to those screams? Is that really the picture you have of Paradise?


Yes I do believe it...because Jesus is the one that said it..and you should believe it also for the same reason.

I can just here you now talking to Jesus... "Jesus did you really expect me to believe that Abraham was sitting there with Lazarus at his bosom, surrounded by hundreds of thousands (millions?) of other dead believers, and "just across the gulf" were millions of people screaming in their torments? And that those supposedly in Paradise get to spend their relaxing days listening to those screams? Is that really the picture you wanted me to have of Paradise?"

LoL..Myself and many other posters have answered this question over and over and over on this thread...you go back and read some of those, I'm not going to answer it again here.




 
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