Okay, now I am really confused... if we have no free will to follow Christ -
We have a will, but it is not free. It is derivative of God's fore-ordaining.
An example of how that works, is in Isaiah 10:5-7.
Prove it.
then what's the point in Christ anyway?
In the Ultimate case, the Glory of God.
In the Immediate, he ransomed the Sheep.
John 10
7 Therefore Jesus said again, “Very truly I tell you,
I am the gate for the sheep. 8 All who have come before me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep have not listened to them. 9
I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.[a] They will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy;
I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.
11 “I am the good shepherd.
The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12 The hired hand is not the shepherd and does not own the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. 13 The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.
14 “
I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen.
I must bring them also.
They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. 17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”
Because that would mean he never paid EVERYONE'S debt.
Jesus himself, states his intent.
"...and I lay down my life for the sheep."
The sheep, is referring to those that would be saved.
Isn't the whole point of our saviour Jesus Christ dying for us in the first place to pay the price for ALL of our sins, and to teach us the way to live?
That's one of the details.
The whole point, is God's great glory.
Ephesians 1
7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth. 11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12 s
o that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14
who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
Why teach us the way to live if we cannot choose the path of righteousness?
If you are a Christian, and are regenerate, you can choose the path of righteousness.
The one who is unregenerate, cannot choose the path of righteousness.
Romans 8:7
7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God,
for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.
That's why only God the father, can draw us to Christ.
John 6:44
44
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
In fact just look at this scripture:
“But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.” —Matthew 6:33
"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live."-John11:25
“For He (God the Father) hath made Him (God the Son) to be sin for us, Who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him.” -2 Corinthians 5:21
How could you possibly seek something if you are either a permanent slave to one or the other?
The slave to righteousness has no "problem" here as you might think of it, as this is what they seek as a result of the grace of God that is oh so irresistible.
Also, check out Romans 9.
19
You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? 25 As indeed he says in Hosea,
I completely agree that we have NO choice as to whether we enter heaven or not, that's God decision, however, we can choose to live as best as we can according to scripture.
Those who are regenerate, yes. This isn't a "free" choice though. The one who is not regenerate, cannot "choose to live as best as we can according to scripture." This is because the mind of the unregenerate, is hostile to God. It hates God and his laws.
Romans 8:7
7 For the mind that is set on the
flesh is hostile to God,
for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.
So actually in a way, we are... not pre-destined,
The bible says we are predestined.
Ephesians 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5
he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known[c] to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.
11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee[d] of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it,[e] to the praise of his glory.
Not sort of, but rather, are.
however God knows all the choices we make which will determine where we're going from the day he created mankind. But just because he knows out choices it does not mean you're going to hell, period. OR vice-versa.
Yes and no.
If God knows the future, you can't change the future. If God knew from the beginning, you were going to hell. You can't change that, can ya'?
The plans of the heart belong to man,
but the answer of the tongue is from the Lord.
2 All the ways of a man are pure in his own eyes,
but the Lord weighs the spirit.
3 Commit your work to the Lord,
and your plans will be established.
4 The Lord has made everything for its purpose,
even the wicked for the day of trouble.
5 Everyone who is arrogant in heart is an abomination to the Lord;
be assured, he will not go unpunished.
6 By steadfast love and faithfulness iniquity is atoned for,
and by the fear of the Lord one turns away from evil.
7 When a man's ways please the Lord,
he makes even his enemies to be at peace with him.
8 Better is a little with righteousness
than great revenues with injustice.
9 The heart of man plans his way,
but the Lord establishes his steps.
1 Peter 2:8
8 and
“A stone of stumbling,
and a rock of offense.”
They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.
Jude 4
4 For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
Romans 1:28
Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.
Romans 9
But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, 7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” 8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. 9 For this is what the promise said: “About this time next year I will return, and Sarah shall have a son.” 10 And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— 12 she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”
14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? 25 As indeed he says in Hosea,
John 12:39-40
39 Therefore they could not believe. For again Isaiah said,
40 “He has blinded their eyes
and hardened their heart,
lest they see with their eyes,
and understand with their heart, and turn,
and I would heal them.”
Matthew 11:25
25 At that time Jesus declared, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children;
I know my all loving God wouldn't put people on earth without a chance.
See the above verses.
Secondarily, should we not let he who is love (1 John 4:8) define what love is? I think it rather unwise, to try and make God submit to our personal cultural ideas of what it means to love.
Third, ever considered the fact that there are many people who have never heard of Christ, and many who never will?
Do you think the Shang Civilization, "had a chance"?
Although I very much understand your point of man's free will being.. somewhat weak.
Before regeneration, it isn't just "Weak in desire for the Lord", but also, "strong in hatred against the Lord"
We must just choose to seek the Lord.
Sure, we do choose. This choice is not "free" though. It is derivative upon God.