Jesus is God.

[peacefulbeliever]

Jesus has to be God. Only a perfectly unblemished, perfectly Holy, perfectly obedient, perfectly Powerful sacrifice could possibly atone for the sins of the whole world. Only God qualifies...

Confusion arises when a person tries to understand how. God's ways aren't our ways. Gods ways are much higher than our ways.

God came down from Heaven and died for your sins. How? Well He's God, that's how. He's not bound by our limited understanding.

Jesus Christ had to be a man - perfectly obedient, perfectly spotless to be the second Adam.

Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one (Adam) many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. And not as it was by one (Adam) who sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one (Adam) to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) Therefore as by the offence of one (Adam) judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one (Jesus Christ) the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's (Adam) disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one (Jesus Christ) shall many be made righteous. Romans 5:15-19

One man's disobedience - death; One man's obedience - life.

 

[jimmydiggs]

The problem in the modern church is that many have misunderstood the trinity. We tend to think of the Father, the Spirit and the Son as separate entities when in truth all three are one mind or will with different physical or spiritual attributes. Just because Jesus was human does not make Him any less God. He was a man inhabited by the Spirit of God who willingly laid down his humanity (human desires and emotions) in favor of the will of the Father.

Jesus was not a 'superman'. He was a human who lived a life of complete surrender to the divinity which resided inside of Him. Once the disciples were able to comprehend this, they too were able to walk as Jesus walked spreading the gospel and healing the sick. It's very unfortunate that most believers do not understand or are even taught to reject this teaching resulting in a Spiritually deprived church that looks and acts no different than the sinful world.

Is Jesus God?

 

[Crossfire]

Is Jesus God?

Yes. He was the word of God made flesh, a human body which also had human thoughts and emotions. Jesus had to deal with thoughts, emotions and desires (temptations) typical to humans and when tempted by the devil to prove His divinity, Jesus did not turn to his own divinity to defeat the devil but rather, in faith, He turned to the word of God (the scriptures) to defeat the devil for it is the word of God which testified to His divinity and still testifies to this day. That same word testifies to our identity as Sons of God. It's so sad that so few truly desire to understand...

 

[dishchat]

Sorry Timothy10, I guess that it depends on what translation you wish to use.

John 1:3 from the Holman Christian Standard Bible is rendered, "All things were created through Him, and apart from Him not one thing was created that has been created." Other translations render this verse similarly.

This backed up by Col 1:15, 16, which says of Jesus; " who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him" (ASV)

It is apparent that Jesus was not the Creator but was used in creation. He was the one "through" whom all things were created, both in heaven and on earth. He was not the one "by" whom all things came into existence.

In the Genesis account, the word used in verse one means to create something out of nothing. A product of God's holy spirit. This is what God the Father did. In verse 26 the word means to construct something out of already existing material. This is what Jesus, (as the only begotten, firstborn son) did. He is the one spoken to in verse 26 when God says "let US make man in OUR image, according to OUR likeness".
Yahweh was not talking to himself.


"Mighty God" yes. "ALMIGHTY GOD"...NO! No one can deny that Jesus is the image of his Father. But he is a firstborn son, he is not God. As firstborn, there has to be a time when the son did not exist.
He is also the "Prince of Peace"...a prince is the son of a king.



Not all mss read "God"in this verse. Others translate "HE".

"And most certainly, the mystery of godliness is great: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory." (Holman)
This is clearly talking about Jesus, but it is not saying that he is God.



John 17:21, 22, "May they all be one, as You, Father, are in Me and I am in You.
May they also be one in Us, so the world may believe You sent Me. I have given them the glory You have given Me. May they be one as We are one." (Holman)

Were all of Jesus' disciples God?


Is Jesus incapable of speaking 'of himself'? If he is God, why is that? Why does he need to be 'taught' God's words if he is God?


Another curious verse. How is this one "WITH" God, if he IS God? We also have to ask how was Jesus with God "in the beginning"? "the beginning" of what? God did not have a beginning.
If he is "the firstborn of all creation" then that makes Jesus a created being.



Can God die? If God was dead, who raised him back to life? Can an immortal being die? What does "immortal" mean exactly?

If Jesus was God, why did he worship the Father? Why did he call him "my God"? "My Father"? (John 20:17)

I find no scriptural support for the notion that 'Jesus is God' at all. In fact I find more scriptural support for there being two completely separate entities who are in complete harmony with each other, than I do for their being one and the same person.

In prayer to his Father at John 17:3, Jesus said that "knowing" God and his Christ were the way to everlasting life. No mention was made of the holy spirit. If 'he' was an equal part of the 'godhead', why is knowing 'him' not necessary?

Just asking?

In the begining Was the word. The word was not created because the word was God.It is not said the first born son. But the first born from the dead.Jesus the first creation of God do not mean that He was created like others but mean that He came from God. Jesus and His Father are one. We and Jesus are one, therefore Jesus is God and we also are Gods.Jesus pray unto the Father because the Father is the maker and Jesus was the body which God used to work. He can do nothing by Himself but do that the Father show Him. The Word of God come to Gods. God cannot die this is why He came like a human being to die. Jesus said that He has the power to give his life and He has the power to take His life. He said unto pharisees to destroy the temple and He will raise it in three days. God was His father do not mean that Jesus was not God. If a human being has a child, his child will be a human being and not another thing apart a human being. If the Father is God, therefore His son is God. Jesus said : who have seen me have seen the Father. The Holy Spirit is God dwelling in us. Father, Son and Holy Spirit are not three different persons but three different offices of the only one God.

 

[wwjd_kilden]

whoever doubs Jesus is God, re- read John 1:

The word was in the beginning with God, and the word was God. He (it masculine) was in the beginning with God (Prophecy os Jesus)

The light in the darkness shines and the darkness did not comprehend it

the word flesh became and dwelt among us (flesh can die)

The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’
I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God.”

 

[leelee]

What does the Bible teach about the Trinity? answers some questions.

 

[shroom2]

What does the Bible teach about the Trinity? answers some questions.

The most difficult thing about the Christian concept of the Trinity is that there is no way to perfectly and completely understand it. The Trinity is a concept that is impossible for any human being to fully understand, let alone explain.

That says a lot about the trinity, right there...

 

[shroom2]

whoever doubs Jesus is God, re- read John 1:

The word was in the beginning with God, and the word was God. He (it masculine) was in the beginning with God (Prophecy os Jesus)

The light in the darkness shines and the darkness did not comprehend it

the word flesh became and dwelt among us (flesh can die)

The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’
I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God.”

Right. Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

 

[cfultz3]

Although I just posted this in another thread, it could also be beneficial here

May I ask you about your understanding of :

The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from Heaven. (1Co 15:47)

Jesus Christ is Lord (Php 2:11, Rev 17:14)

Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one LORD (Deut 6:4)

Jehovah shall be king over all the Earth. In that day shall there be one LORD, and His name one (Zec 14:9)

The Lamb is the Lord of lords, and King of Kings (1Ti 6:15, Rev 17:14, 19:16)

Jehovah is my Redeemer (Psa 19:14, 78:35, Isa 41:14, 43:14, 44:6, etc)

Jesus is my Messiah (Christ, Redeemer).

 

[mpaper345]

Nobody can deny it from scripture alone,but some deny it by beliefs outside of scripture although they claim the Bible.

14That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen(1 Timothy 6:14-16).


No man has seen Jesus and no man will ever see Jesus,which Jesus is more than a visible manifestation,for He is the invisible God that showed a visible manifestation of Himself,and dwells outside that body as well as inside that body.

 

[leelee]

That says a lot about the trinity, right there...

the link i provided also has a lot.

 

[Molly]

Greetings fellow Aussie!

Jesus is not a literal son He is as a son, in the plan of God He became as a son
Proverbs 8:30
(30) Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;

"I was the architect at his side. I was his constant delight, rejoicing always in his presence. (NLT)

"Then I was by him, as a master workman; And I was daily his delight, Rejoicing always before him, (ASV)

"I was a skilled craftsman beside Him. I was His delight every day, always rejoicing before Him." (Holman)

It is foolish to stick to just one translation my friend.

Jesus was not "as" a son....he WAS a son. The term "firstborn" applied to Jesus, is the same word that applies to any firstborn child in a family.
As the very first of God's creations, he is unique in the universe in that he is the only direct creation of his Father. All other things, including the angelic 'sons' were brought into existence by this "master worker" who was at God's side throughout the time it took to bring all things into existence.

John 8:58
(58) Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Exodus 3:14
(14) And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

An old chestnut. But John 8:58 has nothing to do with Exodus 3:14.

Look at the context. The Jews were not asking him who he was...they were asking him about his age. He told them he was in existence before Abraham.

The people who Jesus was speaking to knew exactly what Jesus meant
John 8:59
(59) Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Of course they did. And Jesus clarified it in John 10:33-36,
"They replied, “We’re stoning you not for any good work, but for blasphemy! You, a mere man, claim to be God.” Jesus replied, “It is written in your own Scriptures that God said to certain leaders of the people, ‘I say, you are gods!’ And you know that the Scriptures cannot be altered. So if those people who received God’s message were called ‘gods,’ why do you call it blasphemy when I say, ‘I am the Son of God’? After all, the Father set me apart and sent me into the world."


Where does he claim to be God? He clearly said he was "God's son". He also said that 'certain leaders of the people were called gods' The term god means "mighty one". Jesus was a god'-like being, no question about that....but he was not, nor did he ever claim to be ALMIGHTY God.

The only way we could receive salvation is for someone who is fully God and fully man. He can then lay hold on both, a created being cannot lay hold on God the way God can.

I will have to disagree on that point. For Jesus to offer up his life to save mankind, he had to be Adam's equivalent. He offered a ransom to God for what Adam forfeited. That is why he was called "the last Adam".

God's law demanded "eye for eye, tooth for tooth, soul for soul" (or life for life). What Adam lost was perfect life, not only for himself but for all humanity who would descend from him. No man was now perfect in order to fulfill the law and pay for what Adam did. So a perfect life had to come into the world from outside of Adam's progeny. God arranged for it; his firstborn son willingly accepted the role of redeemer. Jesus did not have to be God in order to offer his life.

Philippians 2:5-8
(5) Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
(6) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
(7) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
(8) And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

The NSAB renders those verses this way...

"Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross."

This scripture is not saying what you think it does.

Being in God's 'form' simply means being a spirit as God is. All beings who dwell in heaven with the Father are spirits. From a spirit being, Jesus became human and from infancy, he knew what it was to be human. (Heb 4:15)

As the 'Logos' (Word) of God, he was God's spokesman, his 'right hand man'.
The Word became flesh...it does not say that God became flesh. God's "only begotten son" carried out his mission successfully, proving that Adam could have remained obedient, even when tempted by the devil. He was the model and we must try to the best of our imperfect ability to emulate him.

 

[wwjd_kilden]

Molly: one of the transcipts don't say "only begotten son", it says "only begotten God"

 

[resurrection33]

Isaiah 43:3, "For I am the LORD, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior"
Isaiah 45:21, "...And there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me."

John 4:42, "They said to the woman, ‘We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world.’"
1 John 4:14, "And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world."

I believe Jesus is God in flesh. God decided to come to earth as a human being, so he did so as Jesus Christ.

 

[Molly]

Molly: one of the transcipts don't say "only begotten son", it says "only begotten God"

Hey there wwjd_kilden.

That is a very good observation. The thing is....the word in Greek is "god" (theos) but most translations render John 1:18 as "only begotten son". Fascinating isn't it?

Those who hail John 1:1 as being 'THE' proof text for the trinity, will translate the same word "theos" as "son" a few verses later.

In John 1:1 it literally says; "In the beginning was the Word and the word was with God and the Word was God."

Now lets read that verse again, remembering that the Greek has no capital letters.

"in the beginning was the word and the word was with (the) god and the word was god"

The fact is, the word 'theos′ in its second occurrence is without the definite article (ho) meaning THE God.

So it is not actually saying that the Word was THE GOD but that the Word was with THE GOD and was God-like.

Other translations not exhibiting a trinitarian bias render John 1:1.....

“the Word was divine” (AT) ; “the Logos was divine” (Mo) ; “the word was a god.” (NTIV) ” Referring to the Word (who became Jesus Christ) as “a god” is consistent with the use of that term in the rest of the Scriptures. For example, at Psalm 82:1-6 human judges in Israel were referred to as “gods” (Hebrew, ’elo‧him′; Greek, the‧oi′, at John 10:34) because they were representatives of Yahweh and were to speak his law.

If people wish to push the trinity, they have no direct statements from either Yahweh or his son to the effect that Jesus is anything but God's firstborn son.

For such an important doctrine, wouldn't you think there would be direct statements? Black and white indisputable evidence?.....but it simply isn't there.

It insults the son to put him on an equal footing with his incomparable Father. It blasphemes the Father to place anyone on equal footing with him. He is a jealous God who tolerates no other gods.

The Jews knew Yahweh as one God.....so did Jesus. Where and when did the teaching of a triune godhead infiltrate Christianity, when it was not there in any of the scriptures that Jesus used?

 

[Purplesky]

JESUS IS LORD.period

 

[Tombo]

If anyone has an hour and a half on their hands, please watch this.

Is Jesus Christ God? James White vs. Jalal Abualrub - YouTube

God bless.

Tom

 

[Laodicea]

Greetings fellow Aussie!


"I was the architect at his side. I was his constant delight, rejoicing always in his presence. (NLT)

"Then I was by him, as a master workman; And I was daily his delight, Rejoicing always before him, (ASV)

"I was a skilled craftsman beside Him. I was His delight every day, always rejoicing before Him." (Holman)

It is foolish to stick to just one translation my friend.

Jesus was not "as" a son....he WAS a son. The term "firstborn" applied to Jesus, is the same word that applies to any firstborn child in a family.
As the very first of God's creations, he is unique in the universe in that he is the only direct creation of his Father. All other things, including the angelic 'sons' were brought into existence by this "master worker" who was at God's side throughout the time it took to bring all things into existence.


An old chestnut. But John 8:58 has nothing to do with Exodus 3:14.

Look at the context. The Jews were not asking him who he was...they were asking him about his age. He told them he was in existence before Abraham.


Of course they did. And Jesus clarified it in John 10:33-36,
"They replied, “We’re stoning you not for any good work, but for blasphemy! You, a mere man, claim to be God.” Jesus replied, “It is written in your own Scriptures that God said to certain leaders of the people, ‘I say, you are gods!’ And you know that the Scriptures cannot be altered. So if those people who received God’s message were called ‘gods,’ why do you call it blasphemy when I say, ‘I am the Son of God’? After all, the Father set me apart and sent me into the world."


Where does he claim to be God? He clearly said he was "God's son". He also said that 'certain leaders of the people were called gods' The term god means "mighty one". Jesus was a god'-like being, no question about that....but he was not, nor did he ever claim to be ALMIGHTY God.


I will have to disagree on that point. For Jesus to offer up his life to save mankind, he had to be Adam's equivalent. He offered a ransom to God for what Adam forfeited. That is why he was called "the last Adam".

God's law demanded "eye for eye, tooth for tooth, soul for soul" (or life for life). What Adam lost was perfect life, not only for himself but for all humanity who would descend from him. No man was now perfect in order to fulfill the law and pay for what Adam did. So a perfect life had to come into the world from outside of Adam's progeny. God arranged for it; his firstborn son willingly accepted the role of redeemer. Jesus did not have to be God in order to offer his life.


The NSAB renders those verses this way...

"Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross."

This scripture is not saying what you think it does.

Being in God's 'form' simply means being a spirit as God is. All beings who dwell in heaven with the Father are spirits. From a spirit being, Jesus became human and from infancy, he knew what it was to be human. (Heb 4:15)

As the 'Logos' (Word) of God, he was God's spokesman, his 'right hand man'.
The Word became flesh...it does not say that God became flesh. God's "only begotten son" carried out his mission successfully, proving that Adam could have remained obedient, even when tempted by the devil. He was the model and we must try to the best of our imperfect ability to emulate him.

Here are some more texts for you
Isaiah 9:6
(6) For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Micah 5:2
(2) But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
Acts 20:28
(28) Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Hebrews 1:8
(8) But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
1 John 5:20
(20) And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

 

[cronjecj]

I believe Jesus is God in flesh. God decided to come to earth as a human being, so he did so as Jesus Christ.

and that is the truth.

how simplier can you put it ?

 

[cronjecj]

Right. Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

hi shrooms,

how many sons does God have?