"Feminism"

[Jullianna]

What is your definition of "feminism"?

What is your definition of "feminist theology"

What are your thoughts on the ties between feminism and Lilith/the Kabbalah?

Can a woman be a christian and a "feminist"?

 

[Ugly]

Everything i've seen of 'feminism' is womens dominance over men. Which, to me, goes in contrast to biblical teachings. Kabbalah is a form of mysticism and 'hidden knowledge'. Also, making God out to be weakling that has to manipulate to force His will. So yeah, off with that as well. Too similar to word of faith 'visualization' type teachings too if i remember correctly. So yeah, Lilith or anything tied into that goes out the door. And a true feminist, no, i do not believe can be a Christian too. OK, now yell at me =P haha

 

[jimmydiggs]

What is your definition of "feminism"?

Depends on the context. In the context of theology, I use two definitions. Feminism can be biblical, if we are just using a word instead of relating a concept. If we are dealing with it conceptually, the vast majority of the time, it is the promotion of an ideology that encourages women to rebel against what God has stated they are to be and do in the context of Gender.

 

[FrankensteinGirls]

I've found feminism not to be womens dominance over men but equality to men

What is your definition of "feminist theology"

I don't have one :S

What are your thoughts on the ties between feminism and Lilith/the Kabbalah?

interesting I guess, I've met self identified feminists of all walks and I've always been a to each their own kind of person.

Can a woman be a christian and a "feminist"?

yes of course

 

[MrHonest]

My definition of feminism? Uhh well when I hear it the definition that comes to mind is: women in general, ups & downs, strengths & weaknesses.

My definition of feminist theology? Isn't that the same thing as feminism but just on a different area with a name that makes it sound different?

My thoughts on the ties between feminism and Lilith/the Kabbalah? Well I only know Lilith is Jewish mythology & any mythology is myth although you can find an idea or 2 within it; ideas can be harmful. As for Kabbalah its nothing I know & the little I read makes me bookmark it right next to evolution, the big bang, & nonsense.(It will remain there until something tells me to remove it)

Can a woman be a christian and a "feminist"? Uhh so long as her faith in Biblical instruction is not surpassed by support for feminist rights & independence I don't see why not.

 

[Jullianna]

As a christian, what would your thoughts be regarding this paper and other Lilith projects? Feminism and Women's Studies: Lilith's Evolution

 

[violakat]

If we are looking at the modern definition of Feminist, then no, it's not Biblical. However, Feminism was originally started on the basis of protecting women. Although, some of the founders of the original movement may have wanted women to be the head of house. But if you look at when it originally started, women where basically considered as nothing more then chattel (which is very much against what the Bible teaches). Not only that, many women suffered severe abuse at the hands of their husbands, up to the point of death. And the law would do nothing in regards to this. Women who were not married nor had family had a hard time surviving. Often times, they would be thrown into so called "Women's Houses" that supposedly allowed them to get a foot up in their lives. But really, they were pretty much domestic slaves, similar to what we see with the illegal slave movements today (and this includes the men, not just the women). What little money they earned, went to pay for the rent, which usually superseded their salary. Women pretty much had no say in what went on with their lives.

What's ironic about the Original Feminist movement, is that in some ways, it is very Biblical. In the Bible, we see that women are allowed to own property, and have jobs. And I'm not just talking about Proverbs 31. It goes all the way back to Moses and The Daughters of Zelophehad.

However, there does come a point where the Feminist movement goes too far. When it ceases being about protection of woman and goes on to controlling of men, then it no longer is in alignment with the Bible.

 

[MrHonest]

Oh I forgot to mention this(Its in relation to feminist opinion)... " This liberation theory holds that men are hurt by the male gender role and patriarchy and that men's lives are alienating, unhealthy and impoverished."

I feel fine. I think since women are thinkers, this type of thinking can very easily become misdirected. I also see this topic as an example how worldly wants can manipulate ideas & in turn lives become manipulated.

I'm for equal rights but the roles of masculine & feminine are concrete.

Feminism and Women's Studies: Lilith's Evolution: An old idea becomes a "new" idea and in my point of view: Ideas are dangerous & the more malleable our understanding is towards an idea the easier we are to become corrupted along with it.

 

[FrankensteinGirls]

Oh I forgot to mention this(Its in relation to feminist opinion)... " This liberation theory holds that men are hurt by the male gender role and patriarchy and that men's lives are alienating, unhealthy and impoverished."

I feel fine. I think since women are thinkers, this type of thinking can very easily become misdirected. I also see this topic as an example how worldly wants can manipulate ideas & in turn lives become manipulated.

I'm for equal rights but the roles of masculine & feminine are concrete.

Feminism and Women's Studies: Lilith's Evolution: An old idea becomes a "new" idea and in my point of view: Ideas are dangerous & the more malleable our understanding is towards an idea the easier we are to become corrupted along with it.

care to expand a bit?

 

[Nattmaran]

What is your definition of "feminism"?

I would go by the book and say:

Feminism is a collection of movements aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for women. In addition, feminism seeks to establish equal opportunities for women in education and employment.

I am shocked to read that some people here actually believes that feminism is that women should have dominance over men. That we should have a matriarchy instead of a patriarchy. That women should oppress men instead of how it is now.

Feminism is the strive for equality.

What is your definition of "feminist theology"

I have no general idea about this "movement" since I think that feminism should be in every part of society. But of course I support that females becomes priests just as men. The church I now attend have a female priest.

We need more women in high positions so that we don't get an all male dominated control and view on how society should be like.

What are your thoughts on the ties between feminism and Lilith/the Kabbalah?

I say it again: Feminism is a collection of movements aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for women.

I don't see how that have anything to do to Lilith and Kabbalah. I think that Lilith has become a strong symbol for the feminist moment because she resisted, what she saw as, oppression. But Lilith do not have any real connection to Christendom as far as I know. She is mentioned in the bible in one location and it is very unclear what her part is there.

Can a woman be a christian and a "feminist"?

Of course you can. Just because you think that women should have equal rights as men does not make Jesus love you any less.

I think that all women and all men should be feminist and strive for a more equal world since equality has proven a good thing for all - except for those who have to share power of course.

I am happy to say that Sweden is a country that strives hard to make the society more equal (even if there is a long way to go). Gender equality: The Swedish approach to fairness - SWEDEN.SE

 

[Nattmaran]

And a true feminist, no, i do not believe can be a Christian too. OK, now yell at me =P haha

I: Yell, yell, yell, yell, yell, yell, you are wrong, yell, yell, yell, so very wrong, yada, yada, yada,

U: *ignore, ignore, ignore*

So... I spare my yelling

 

[Nattmaran]

If we are dealing with it conceptually, the vast majority of the time, it is the promotion of an ideology that encourages women to rebel against what God has stated they are to be and do in the context of Gender.

Would have been interesting to see how you would have said in an alternate world where the bible was written by women and the men where the ones that were oppressed... Sadly... we will never know

 

[Nattmaran]

If we are looking at the modern definition of Feminist, then no, it's not Biblical. However, Feminism was originally started on the basis of protecting women. Although, some of the founders of the original movement may have wanted women to be the head of house. But if you look at when it originally started, women where basically considered as nothing more then chattel (which is very much against what the Bible teaches). Not only that, many women suffered severe abuse at the hands of their husbands, up to the point of death. And the law would do nothing in regards to this. Women who were not married nor had family had a hard time surviving. Often times, they would be thrown into so called "Women's Houses" that supposedly allowed them to get a foot up in their lives. But really, they were pretty much domestic slaves, similar to what we see with the illegal slave movements today (and this includes the men, not just the women). What little money they earned, went to pay for the rent, which usually superseded their salary. Women pretty much had no say in what went on with their lives.

Thank you Violakat for those wise words and all the history. I think it is easy to forget that not long ago women stood up for their rights and started demanding things (for example the right to vote). Just like black people in the US have had to fight for their rights. So we own a great thanks to these brave women and men that had made this possible.

However, there does come a point where the Feminist movement goes too far. When it ceases being about protection of woman and goes on to controlling of men, then it no longer is in alignment with the Bible.

I have never met any feminist that have had the view that women should control the men. But I have heard several men that claims that they should have the right to control women (two in this thread so far).

 

[MrHonest]

Equal rights & independence are everything to anyone & that I agree is necessary. Any more changing beyond that isn't because its not fair. Instead it will be because you want people to be like you. That is unfair thinking.

Afterward lifestyles will always vary & women will be recognised for what is common & men will be recognised for what is common. If feminism is still not content: then it is useless. I did not give examples for a reason & if you disagree then you're reading something else.

 

[violakat]

I have never met any feminist that have had the view that women should control the men. But I have heard several men that claims that they should have the right to control women (two in this thread so far).

There are some that believe this. Usually, they border more towards the feminazis. And it's more of a recently new development in the feminism movement.

 

[Nattmaran]

There are some that believe this. Usually, they border more towards the feminazis. And it's more of a recently new development in the feminism movement.

Yeah... I guess that there are always rotten eggs in the basket you sit in.

It is just like Christianity I guess. People can always compare you to some sort of extremist just because that individual has chosen to call himslef/herself a Christian.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Would have been interesting to see how you would have said in an alternate world where the bible was written by women and the men where the ones that were oppressed... Sadly... we will never know

If you believe God is oppressive, you'll have to take that up with God.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKO7LNuoAj4[/video]

 

[violakat]

Would have been interesting to see how you would have said in an alternate world where the bible was written by women and the men where the ones that were oppressed... Sadly... we will never know

I just now saw this. Wished I'd seen it earlier. In modern times, there are so many people who think that the Bible teaches oppression of women. But what they don't know, is that the Bible actually sets laws up in the OT to protect women from the oppression of many men.

For example, the divorce were written because many men would throw a woman away and verbally divorce her. And when she would become the wife of another man, the former husband would then accuse her of adultery and because she had no proof, and the man was generally believed in some locations, she was stoned. As a result, the letter of divorce was created so women would have some proof for protection.

I think, if the situation had been reversed and woman was the dominate gender, that God would dictate laws to protect men, just as He does to protect women.

 

[violakat]

As a christian, what would your thoughts be regarding this paper and other Lilith projects? Feminism and Women's Studies: Lilith's Evolution

First, Lillith is a myth and not truth, so I would more then likely disregard the studies to learn from. However, I think it is important to be aware of what they are saying, if nothing more then just the key points, to explain why they are not teaching the truth.

 

[Nattmaran]

If you believe God is oppressive, you'll have to take that up with God.

God is not Oppressive.

People have used religion as a tool to oppress people...