Can the sinner who repents->believes-> gets saved... STOP sinning in life ?

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Tombo

Guest
#21
#21
I still find it funny how sinners think they can "do something" in order to make God save them!!!! They just can't see that repentnace and good works follow salvation. They want all the glory. You can show them till you're blue in the face and they won't see it till God shows them. Sometimes prayer is the best thing, instead of rehashing the same thing over and over.
God bless.

Tom
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#22
#22
Skinski,

Everything above and including:

Because a son can go wayward and leave the path. God will discipline them to bring them back. A Christian who is in sin is in a very dangerous state because they are walking in opposition to God. Peter was severely rebuked by Paul for his hypocrisy yet Peter yielded to the correction and came back to the path.
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Is all I have been saying all along. It is like you took the words out of my mouth. Thank you for admitting a Christian can sin, including yourself. Thank you again.
 
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Skinski7

Banned
#23
Nov 26, 2011
3,818
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#23
cfultz3 said:
Skinski,

Everything above and including:



Is all I have been saying all along. It is like you took the words out of my mouth. Thank you for admitting a Christian can sin, including yourself. Thank you again.
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The issues I have had with you are basically that you have clearly stated that one can willfully sin and still be in a saved state. I forget which thread but I clearly remember you alluding to that. Such a belief means you must view salvation as abstract and not a present state because one cannot be in a present state of walking obediently with God and disobedient at the same time.

Secondly your support of others who very clearly hold to the view that this "abstract" salvation is unconditional and is totally disconnected from what you do.

Thirdly the way that you appear to strain at gnats while completely ignoring the elephant in the room.

Fourthly you have admitted that you have not crucified your flesh with its passions and desires but are "trying" to do so. It is not something we "try" an do. We either do it or we don't.

We either repent or we don't.

Did into what I wrote about church history. If you can come to terms with the origin and effects of the inborn sin doctrine then you'll be able to throw it out and the Bible will make much more sense.

Perhaps then you'll actually be able to crucify your flesh with its passions and desires.
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#24
#24
Skinski,

I have never said you have to be sinless or perfect to be saved. I have said you have to forsake all known rebellion through a genuine repentance experience. You are not saved in your rebellion. All known willful sin must stop BEFORE God will raise you up. When someone comes into the faith they are but a babe not knowing much. They will grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ as they diligently add to their faith. It is through doing this that they will be granted abundant entrance into the kingdom.
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If being sinless before you are saved is not what you are preaching, then you give EVERY indication to say otherwise. May I suggest, since it is coming from one who feels you have been saying this, to use alot of adjectives to descibe specifically who you are talking about, and conjuctions to define a separation. Again, this is only a suggestion.

As to, "You are not saved in your rebellion", Scripture says otherwise. Is there one mention of anyone who was saved before they were saved. Jesus being a physician tells me otherwise.

As to, "All known willful sin must stop BEFORE God will raise you up", only sinners are saved. can one be pure before they are santified? Can one receive the Spirit before they are saved? How then can a man cleanse himself without God?

As to, "When someone comes into the faith they are but a babe not knowing much." Yes, perhaps, it is better said, "willful sin must not be a part of your Christian walk. But when you do stray from the path, God is meriful when you truly repent."

As to, "They will grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ as they diligently add to their faith. It is through doing this that they will be granted abundant entrance into the kingdom." Indeed one gradually grows in grace and knowledge and as they add to their faith, they become all the more stronger against Satan and the flesh. But, still, it is faith and faith along which saves and allows entry into the Kingdom. And a saving faith is shown forth by ones fruit. We do all the more the act of Love, not to gain entry, but to gain our diadems. So, continue to finish the race, knowing that your rewards are in Heaven. Amen.
 
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Skinski7

Banned
#25
Nov 26, 2011
3,818
62
0
#25
Tombo said:
I still find it funny how sinners think they can "do something" in order to make God save them!!!! They just can't see that repentnace and good works follow salvation. They want all the glory. You can show them till you're blue in the face and they won't see it till God shows them. Sometimes prayer is the best thing, instead of rehashing the same thing over and over.
God bless.

Tom
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Again, it is not about making God do anything. It is about meeting the clear requirements He has laid out. God has set forth conditions for you to meet. Those conditions are repentance and an obedient faith.

If there was nothing you had to do then Jesus wouldn't have needed to teach anything let alone tell people to do anything. Isn't that right?
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#26
#26
Skinski,

We have to always examine ourselves and be very prudent. I fall short for sure and God is always correcting and guiding me the right way. Yet I am not willfully transgressing against God presumptuously, no way as that is the road to death and it would not be loving God or my neighbour. That sort of thing (willful sin) disgusts me.
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Sin is still defined as sin, whether it is defined as "mistake, error, missing the mark, offence, mishap". In the end, God's glory has been offended by the act of offending.
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#27
#27
Skinski,

Anyone who is living in rebellion to God in any way whatsoever is in great danger of losing their soul.
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And yet, all this while, I said give grace room to work, and just now have you agreed that grace has a place in a Christian's life when he sins. So, yes, one is in danger of LOSING his soul if he does not harken to the Spirit.
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#28
#28
Skinski7 said:
The issues I have had with you are basically that you have clearly stated that one can willfully sin and still be in a saved state. I forget which thread but I clearly remember you alluding to that. Such a belief means you must view salvation as abstract and not a present state because one cannot be in a present state of walking obediently with God and disobedient at the same time.
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Yes I have said, and thus alluded to it. But I have also said that you MUST hearken to the Spirit or lose salvation. The Father is not eagerly sitting at the endge of His throne hoping one will sin so that He can take their salvation away. NO! NO! He is a loving Father who is willing to work with you. But if a person choose to remain in their sin, then yes, he has apostated.
 
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Skinski7

Banned
#29
Nov 26, 2011
3,818
62
0
#29
cfultz3 said:
Skinski,



And yet, all this while, I said give grace room to work, and just now have you agreed that grace has a place in a Christian's life when he sins. So, yes, one is in danger of LOSING his soul if he does not harken to the Spirit.
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Grace is not a cover for continued sin, you will not find that anywhere in the Bible. Grace is the power of God to walk free from sin.

Read your Bible more carefully.

When people were sinning God did not remove His grace, it abounded. So are we to keep on sinning so that it just keeps on abounding? No way.

Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
Rom 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;



Giving grace "room to work" is making an allowance for continued sin. Ye shall not surely die in other words. The early church did not give grace "room to work" they called sin sin and practiced church discipline.

Paul was very clear when he wrote...

1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

The grey area that "allowing grace to work" is an area with no bounds. It because of this fallacy that the churches do not speak against the sin in their midst. They just coddle people in their sins and tell them "God is working on you."
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#30
#30
Skinski7 said:
Secondly your support of others who very clearly hold to the view that this "abstract" salvation is unconditional and is totally disconnected from what you do.
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I am sorry, I have searched to find out what is "abstract salvation" and I still do not know what that means. But as to salvation being "uncontional", I have said to many many times that one can lose salvation either by returning the gift (apostate), or blaspheming the Spirit. And if I have not said it before, may I add, one can lose salvation if one thinks he/she can work himself/herself to Heaven. It is FAITH and faith along in Christ Jesus that saved, and the works which are done in Christ are because of having been saved in the first place.
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#31
#31
Skinski,

Fourthly you have admitted that you have not crucified your flesh with its passions and desires but are "trying" to do so. It is not something we "try" an do. We either do it or we don't.
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I have admitted I have sin. Remeber the verse, he who says they have no sin is deceived and the Truth is not in them. I admit I have sin, therefore Truth is in me.
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#32
#32
Skinsky,

Did into what I wrote about church history. If you can come to terms with the origin and effects of the inborn sin doctrine then you'll be able to throw it out and the Bible will make much more sense.
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I am sorry to say, but youi are assuming again. Never once have I said that sin is inborn. In fact, I have said we are born into sin, not that we are born from sin.
 
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Skinski7

Banned
#33
Nov 26, 2011
3,818
62
0
#33
cfultz3 said:
Yes I have said, and thus alluded to it. But I have also said that you MUST hearken to the Spirit or lose salvation. The Father is not eagerly sitting at the endge of His throne hoping one will sin so that He can take their salvation away. NO! NO! He is a loving Father who is willing to work with you. But if a person choose to remain in their sin, then yes, he has apostated.
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Only if the transgression is not willful. If the heart is still pure before God then that person is counted as righteous. Thus they will yield to the Spirit.

If they have turned to the flesh then God will correct them to bring them back but when they are in their fleshly state they are most certainly not right with God.

David was not right with God when he committed murder and was committing adultery. If he had of died in that state he would have lost his soul. The Bible is very clear on such things.
 
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Skinski7

Banned
#34
Nov 26, 2011
3,818
62
0
#34
cfultz3 said:
Skinsky,



I am sorry to say, but youi are assuming again. Never once have I said that sin is inborn. In fact, I have said we are born into sin, not that we are born from sin.
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I apologise for assuming wrong.

We are definitely born into a sinful world. Sin is not born in us.
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#35
#35
Skinski7 said:
Grace is not a cover for continued sin, you will not find that anywhere in the Bible. Grace is the power of God to walk free from sin.
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You are talking about continuing in sin, while I am talking about a "fall". Better yet, as you would say, "a mistake". I agree that you cannot continue in sin in your righteous path. A thousand word sentence is better than a two worded sentence which does not define anything.
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#36
#36
Giving grace "room to work" is making an allowance for continued sin. Ye shall not surely die in other words. The early church did not give grace "room to work" they called sin sin and practiced church discipline.
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But you just said in the present particple that one's walking in sin will cause him to lose his soul. Now you are saying that the Spirit has no propose in His duty of rebuking.
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#37
#37
Skinski7 said:
Only if the transgression is not willful. If the heart is still pure before God then that person is counted as righteous. Thus they will yield to the Spirit.

If they have turned to the flesh then God will correct them to bring them back but when they are in their fleshly state they are most certainly not right with God.

David was not right with God when he committed murder and was committing adultery. If he had of died in that state he would have lost his soul. The Bible is very clear on such things.
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Can you say that without a doubt that every single thing the Spirit tells you to do that you do it? He who know to do good and does not do it sins. Have you ever sit down to eat and thought of the poor and the Spirit says to write a check and you might have said, later, to only find out that you forget to do it? Have you ever stepped on an insect, knowing that you will have to answer for killing God's creature for no purpose? Has the Spirit ever told you to condemn every single person in every single church and tell them they have apostated? Surely, there are some who are like Job. Maybe 10? Perhaps even 5? What about even 1? Would even that one negate that statement of "all churches" and thus make you are a liar?
 
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cfultz3

Guest
#38
#38
Skinski7 said:
I apologise for assuming wrong.

We are definitely born into a sinful world. Sin is not born in us.
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I totally agree with you here. But my point is not to make you seem to be in the wrong, but only to the fact that we all sin. Nothing more.
 
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AnandaHya

Guest
#39
#39
Skinski7 said:
When I speak of salvation as an "abstract concept" this I am alluding to how the gnostics taught salvation. Salvation to them was an abstract concept based upon obtaining a certain knowledge and it was completely distinct as to how one chose to live.

The gnostics taught that the flesh was inherently evil, sin was some sort of substance, and that this substance was passed down genetically.
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wait who in the boards believe this?

I don't believe that sin is some sort of substance that is passed down genetically. that is neither scriptural or scientific at all.

the rest of your post is conjecture about what Augustine taught. Most of it a strawman misrepresentation. ..

Real salvation is not simply being forgiven for your past sins through the blood of Jesus Christ. Real salvation also has to do with being set free from the bondage of sin which is rooted in being enslaved to the passions and desires of the flesh. Real salvation is a present state of walking in the light in communion with God. The heart is pure and is not defiled by any rebellion to God whatsoever. It is done by the power of God and it is a beautiful thing. Praise God.
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yep Praise God, but that is the Salvation most of the churches I've attended teach and believe in so I don't understand you hatred of churches at all.

Those that are in Christ have been truly set free from their lusts and no longer yield to them. Sure they are tempted but they overcome temptation, and as time goes we partake in the divine nature more and more.


All this is why I can quote scriptures like this...

1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
1Pe 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

And this...

1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Any no-one will address them. I can also easily elaborate on those scriptures connecting them to vast amounts of other scripture and no-one will address directly what I am saying either.
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there is nothing to address in those verses its in statements like this:

It is the invisible Gospel to those who defend the continuation of sin.
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that you told that you are lying and do not listen to what is being said because you have trigger words that cause you to react instead of respond and your false understanding of Augustine teachings and other teachings concerning what the church teaches. Most are not defending sin or that people should continue to live in sin. they are trying to get you to see that your message is missing a few key points.
 
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Crossfire

Guest
#40
#40
Most preachers and theologians say no however, according to scripture, it is entirely possible. Unfortunately, few seem to understand it and even fewer seem to walk in it.

We live in a world that is saturated with sin. You can't turn on a tv, radio or a computer without being bombarded with it. Seldom can you go to school, work, shopping or anywhere else without being exposed. Don't even get me started on the church...

What we need are people willing to do as the Apostle Paul did, consecrating themselves from the world and seeking God for as long as it takes to walk in serious spiritual authority and power.
 
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