BEWARE OF WOMEN/MEN

[thefightinglamb]

So, I have been at quite a number of churches that do seem to have some standard of holiness...and I have been spellbound with them for sometime on the topic of the 'proper' relationship between boys/girls; men/women in the church.

In the extreme, I have a friend that refuses to touch women whatsoever/let them touch him.

I have a whole church community that I know but that do not attend that condemn dating as if it was the mark of the Beast. One of the guys once told me about his past sinful ways when he went walking with a girl. I thought that was a bit silly.

At said church, they beleive in group dating where a bunch of girls and guys go out together and there is never truly one on one time, though you can speak to one person specifically with all the other people doing the same thing.

There are quite a number of church members I know that condemn dating altogether...

But with me, I am all different composed (I do not know how else to describe my constitution ).
I believe the Spirit can keep me safe, if I abide with Him. Though I have not dated/kissed/had sex with anyone,(nor do I want to really do these things until I am married) I like encouraging women in my life however I feel led to.

I go on long walks with girls (one girl right now), write them deep letters (that have nothing bad in them whatsoever), and am not afraid or ashamed to treat any of them as I would a physical sister.

This philosophy has led me into a situation that I have somewhat questioned in my heart. I work about an hour from work. I used to sleep at a guy friend's house that was like 15 minutes away but I never get good sleep there, sleeping on a couch--in a noisy house. My female friend offered to let me sleep in her guestroom. I quite room, where I could get quality sleep...at first, I was unsure and prayed over it...but the I felt relieve when I was like "it is like spending the night at my sister's house." I slept the day there (I work the midnight shift)...and did not feel anything wrong about it, but I could see how there is a "possibility" for sin that I was at first weary of...but now, trust God that He can keep me pure through. She did make me breakfast and dinner which was delicious...and I perceived nothing spiritual amiss as of yet. As long as I flee at the smell of danger/sin, isn't this fine?

So, what are your thoughts? What is the 'proper' Christian relationship between a man and a woman? How should a relationship develop? And how abouts my situation, is it immoral from a Christian standpoint?

Thanks. God bless
tony

 

[Lucy68]

I think group dates are a great idea but don't agree with the 'no dating' rule. That's a bit extreme to me.

Sleeping at a girl's house might be too tempting And it won't look good to other people...it may damage both of your reputations and godly witness.

 

[shawntc]

I always imagined I was something of a conservative... I may need to rethink that when I hear of entire church communities condemning dating.

There's a lot of things the Bible does say. It warns against temptation. It says we should flee from sin. It doesn't say we can't date. It doesn't say we can't use the guest room of a friend who happens to be the opposite gender. As long as you know that you can be with the person and you won't engage in sin - or have a means of getting out of the situation should there be strong temptation - I don't see a problem with it. There is the matter of reputation as Lucy68 says, and if rumors spread it could damage your testimony.

"Proper relationship between a Christian man and woman." I'm assuming you mean a friendship. I've never really thought it would be different than a friendship with a fellow male. I think there would be similar guidelines, though. For both genders, there are parts of their bodies you shouldn't touch, as I would imagine that constitutes immorality. Likewise, there are things you ought not say/do that might cause them to sin - any kind of sin. When dealing with the opposite gender, I think it's important to do as you're doing - treat them as sisters. That's a Biblical thing, actually. How we treat the opposite gender is another way our testimony could be influenced. I'm vaguely aware of a tendency today for guys to treat gals as sexual objects, which for some reason the women allow. That should be avoided.

I don't think there's anything wrong with hugging. I have a close female friend who will not hug any male that's not related to her. I, on the other hand, enjoy hugging and I hug male and female friends alike. Hand holding could be a bit more iffy, since that conveys a deeper sense of affection.

 

[PopClick]

I would say don't stay with her because of the directive to "Flee from the appearance of evil". I agree with Lucy, that it might damage your reputation as a witness for Christ.

 

[jonathanbchristian]

The Bible is against "chambering" or "cohabitation". Which means two people of the opposite sex who are not married living together. Romans 13:13

 

[Jullianna]

Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. Romans 13:13????????????????????

 

[Jullianna]

I think it depends upon your maturity in every way.

If a guy/girl is going to go into some sort of foaming at the mouth sexual frenzy because their arms accidentally brushed against one another, by all means, you have no business dating anyone. If you've experienced a reasonable amount of male/female socialization, set boundaries for yourself and those you date, and have placed your life into the hands of Christ, I don't see the problem.

We are to be "as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves". (Matthew 10:16) I think that all too often christians shy away from far too many things and aren't prepared for the situations we face in life. I can see that it is not a good idea for the VERY young to date (as most do not have their emotions, sexuality and spirituality in line yet), but for those over the age of maturity, but I don't get why it's a big deal.

As far as the overnight thing is concerned, if you are going to lie in the next room thinking impure thoughts about the woman/man in the next and it will be a battle for you, don't do it. But, if, as you say, you are simply a visitor who knows how to respectfully appreciate those of the opposite sex and have your sexuality under spiritual control, I don't see anywhere that the scriptures call this sin.

Yes, people may judge you, so it may damage your witness; but I wonder how greatly those who live to discover and judge the flaws of others are affected by our testimonies anyway.

 

[Jullianna]

Since I've jumped in it, I may as well jump all the way in, huh?

Why does it seem like whenever someone comes out with a new book a lot of christians want to build a new religion around it? There have been books in recent years talking about how impure dating is, so suddenly it's the new sin.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...most of the girls I grew up with who didn't date and were not permitted to socialize with boys in any way went completely boy crazy once they were out from under mommy/daddy's roof and ended up deeply hurt and in trouble. Ignorance is not protection. Teaching sons/daughters self-respect, boundaries and the ways of God IS protection. Give them the knowledge they need and help them learn how to protect themselves in the real world because parents can't do it forever...and LOVE them so they won't seek the wrong kind of love from the wrong kind of people.

 

[SpaceCowboy]

The Bible is against "chambering" or "cohabitation". Which means two people of the opposite sex who are not married living together. Romans 13:13

That verse is taken WAY out of context. There have been plenty of Apostles and Disciples that stayed at womens houses just as the OP did.

Your fine dude.

 

[jonathanbchristian]

"Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying." Romans 13:13 KJV "Orgies" is not a good translation. Strongs defines chambering as cohabitation or in common terms 'shacking up'.

 

[GreenNnice]

I think group dates are a great idea but don't agree with the 'no dating' rule. That's a bit extreme to me.

Sleeping at a girl's house might be too tempting And it won't look good to other people...it may damage both of your reputations and godly witness.

___________________
'course, let's not be naive, a lot more's at stake than just what people will think about you (reputation) and your ability to win hearts to Christ in your 'circle.' Yes, indeed, the influence of sleeping at your GF/BF will have consequence ....

But, think of the bright side, you will have a new friend. The Enemy
So happy, gtatifying, BUT FOR A SPELL, before reality, like Harry Potter's flying potion wearing off at the wrong time (you up in the air still), HITS you and you freefall to the ground from a great height and you hit it HARD!

Ahhhhh, but the good news now..... By asking God for forgiveness for your act, and, rebuking the spelled attack of The Enemy and a repentent resolve to let the Lord lead your life, you will be given a clean slate, reimaged to a pure mind following Him, your deadness gone from His mind as you become alive in Him.
The Lord leads, The Lord acts on behalf of His sheep, He is our Lamb, He makes our sordid, tawdry, sultry, darkened, soiled sinful past wiped clean-GONE AND FORGOTTEN! (sins to bottom of sea, far as east is from west, which is an 'infinite' distance, psalms scriptures) - we, our fleece, made white as snow

Choose Him, for the first time, or, if, backslid, choose Him again (at church's altar or anywhere you're led, He leads , and your reputation, your Godly witness, and, as said, your purity will be completely, forgivingly RESTORED !

 

[Jullianna]

"Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying." Romans 13:13 KJV "Orgies" is not a good translation. Strongs defines chambering as cohabitation or in common terms 'shacking up'.

I suppose "a good translation" is in the eye of the beholder, as would be "overnight visitor in a completely different room" versus "shacking up".

 

[Jullianna]

Can someone please show us where the scriptures say that the Apostles and other christians became "impure" by sleeping under the same roof with women they weren't married to (not as husband and wife, but as guests)? This I gotta see....

 

[Jullianna]

Since I have actually eaten at the same table with a guy or two alone in the same house, I'm probably evil to the bone. Sat on the same sofa and watched a movie even!!! GASP!!!!

 

[iraasuup]

This is almost as ridiculous as the guy in chat the other night claiming that the reason people get divorced is because they don't get married in the church.. and if you get married in a garden or anywhere else, well then, God can't possibly be in your marriage and it's doomed for failure. *sigh*

I'm all for being a positive witness, and making sure we do all we can to clearly reflect Christs example in all we do and say, but c'mon seriously?

I could see how this sleeping over thing might 'look bad' if you were actually in a known relationship with the person ie: it's publicly known to all you were dating. But if she/he is just an aquaintance friend etc.. where is the problem?

I have been alone in a friends house while her husband was there and she was out.. (granted her children were there) how is that any different? More recently when I was with my husband, we shared a house with another male. Countless times I would be in the house with him while my husband was gone.

What about mixed house-sharing? What about groups of friends that all go away together for a weekend or something? I mean, where do you draw the line?

As Julianna said, we have to be practical and realise we live IN the real world, there will be situations we come across that we have to choose how to face. Wrapping ourselves up in cotton wool and avoiding every day life, isn't going to teach us how to face said situations.

That being said, here's a tip from my little piece of life experience on such issues:

There are some people who are born Judges. They will ALWAYS judge you and your situation, EVEN if they knew every miute little intricate detail, they will still judge you. You cannot allow yourself to worry about those people, most mature Christians will see a situation and think 'Well, I DONT have/know all of the details here, so I can't form an opinion'...and one must ask what would forming an opinion be useful for anyway... to gossip about others? We shouldnt be doing that either. Also, bear in mind that MANY times (and I say this from personal experience only) the people who are the most condemning/judegmental of someone elses choices are often in deep sin themselves in some area.. (NOT ALWAYS the case, but I have experienced A LOT of this personally, where I've been judged for something by someone whose lifestyle is total hypocrisy to what is coming out of their own mouths).

Just a thought. Use common sense, pray, be led by the spirit, be honest with yourself. If your homone levels are so high that sleeping in a room next to someone of the opposite gender is gonna keep you awake all night- not a good idea If you can graciously accept the offer, go to sleep, wake up and get on with ur day like normal, then what's the issue?

 

[iraasuup]

Something else to ponder.. isnt it safer to stay somewhere overnight, and have a good nights sleep, than to drive home an hour at some ludicrious unearthly hour after having worked a full shift? What would happen if you had an accident or something? Then people would be like 'oh he should have just stayed with a friend overnight'..

Practicality must reign in some scenarios, is all I'm saying here.

 

[GreenNnice]

Something else to ponder.. isnt it safer to stay somewhere overnight, and have a good nights sleep, than to drive home an hour at some ludicrious unearthly hour after having worked a full shift? What would happen if you had an accident or something? Then people would be like 'oh he should have just stayed with a friend overnight'..

Practicality must reign in some scenarios, is all I'm saying here.

__________
Yes, practicality, katydid, agreed, but don't risk foolish stupidity for practicality, get a motel , or, hotel, if you have to, and, sure, we could make argument about being in some podunk town out in the middle of nowhere with NO motels and just your friend's (girlfriend's, or, I did say girlfriend or boyfriend, or, 'GF/BF' in my first post, but a 'girl friend' who you could potentially have ANY attraction too is in same 'fleeing' category) place to sleep. But is that REALLY realistic? No.
So, choose to put your self in a financial pickle than a sexual (potential) pickle.
But, hey, the Lord leads, so listen to.others's thoughts and pray, and, you WILL know the way to.go. Guaranteed. God will protect you too, ask for it, figuratively spread the blood of Christ all over you, and, just like the Israelites first-born in Exodus, you will be protected. You will

True story: I used to work at corporation and girl there was so friendly to everybody. I was in my mid 30s, she too, she with 4 kids, and, me never have had kids (never been myself in life situatiin where kids could be had). Anyway I didn't think.anything of it when she asked me to.dinner one day. I.said 'yes,' naively not realizing that once there she was very forward with me and, playing christian music at end of night, soft, romantic Christian music, like 'This is the air I breathe.'

Anyway, it was weird but, at work, she was one of many girl friends (not girlfriend) I had , by association . But once at her house, meeting her kids, 2, 5, 8, and, like 12 , that an attraction started and she wanted to.go further than just talking on couch at end of night and I knew my pact with God and felt His power in me and I politely listened to her say, 'Isn't this song so beautiful?' and she began singing it, getting closer o me, and I agreed and was liking song and , anyway, the reality hit me , HIS REALITY, it was wrong sitation and I left after that song.

I say this so that all can realize that a simple girl friend can almost become girlfriend, or, infatuation friend, say it however you want, but, yes, the promises, not to mention, the power of God, is true. Believe in 'it,' always, for your life .

 

[jonathanbchristian]

It has been my experience that people who cohabit commit fornication. Most holy people put up barriers to keep them from sin. Some of you on this thread sound just like people who have failed in the past . You sound like the world. Most Christians are against cohabiting but the world loves to cohabit. Just think what the Devil could do if he convinced Christians to cohabit. Not to judge our brother but many people would fall if everyone did this. Who is to say he is strong enough; that is judging aswell.

 

[iraasuup]

Cohabit?I am against cohabiting.. as in I don't believe a 'couple' who are in a romantic relationship, or have ANY KIND OF feelings toward one another, should live together /stay together in the same house/room etc. By definition, cohabiting is 'LIVING TOGETHER' right? Maybe I'm misunderstanding the inital post, but I was of the understanding that the girl referred to in the original post wasn't a 'Girlfriend' but rather a friend/aquaintance who just happens to be female. He isn't LIVING with her, he is simply staying in her spare bedroom, when he needs a place to stay for the night.

I have many male friends who are just that-firends. I have absoutley no sexual desire for them whatsoever, we have been friends for many years and never once have I been tempted to jump into bed with them. I have also been in situations where I've had 'brothers or other male relatives' of close girlfriends of mine, offer a place for myself and some girlfriends to crash if we're passing though, to save on accomodation costs. Like a friend might say, 'Oh my brother lives there, we can stay at his place'...what's wrong with that scenario? How is it any different to the scenario in the initial post.

I do understand the logic that it may 'look bad', but I think that need only be considered if you are actually dating the person. ie: If I were in an actual romantic relationship with a guy, I would not think it wise to spend the night at his house alone. It wouldn't look good, and it would be tempting.. because the attraction and feelings already exist. I'd be more likely to be tempted in that situation than just staying at the house of a male aquaintance to whom I have no attraction whatsoever.

So, I was basing my argument on the fact that this girl, was simply someone he knew, who happened to be a female, someone to whom he has no attraction whatsoever. That being the case, would be it wrong with staying over?. If he has no attraction, the act of simply being in the same house alone, isn't going to drive him into sin. If it does, then he needs to question his maturity in regards to women and relationships. I have lived in houses with other males, whom were simply housemates.. no desire on either side to ever fall into sin.. so, I honestly believe the argument that 'every male/female alone in the same house' will fall into sin is flawed. If you're THAT weak, then of course dont do it, but then you shouldnt date either if you dont have the strength to be in the same room as woman without being tempted.

And, if you want to use that as your argument you should never go shopping with a woman, eat at the same table as her alone, drive her anywhere, come around to her house to fix her fence, meet her for training (even though you're on the same sporting team), etc etc. If you want to associate in ANY WAY at all with a woman, using YOUR LOGIC (that any guy/girl alone will fall into sin) then you either need a constant chaperone, or you need to become a hermit with no social life. You can't have it both ways.

 

[Lucy68]

With regard to being concerned about what other people think....unbelievers are quick to jump on any situation that even hints of a hypocritical Christian.

Sleeping at a friend-of-the-opposite gender's house can be all innocence but do you really want to become a stumbling block to someone struggling to believe?

As witnesses, we have a tremendous responsibility...Paul talks about this somewhere...about not hindering the weaker brother. I don't really concern myself with judgmental Christians; it's the seekers who are watching us VERY closely. So, yeah...it does matter.