Obama emailed me about gay marriage
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Hi there lil_Christian 
Well I can see that reasoning -- let people do what they want, as as long as they're not hurting others. It's true that we shouldn't try to legislate morality. Like, we're not trying to make laws against fornication, etc.
But as I stated before, the one big problem is that "equal rights" to marry naturally means equal rights to adopt children. So it is hurting other people -- the most innocent and vulnerable people -- little children.
It should be unthinkable to give a baby boy to two gay men to "raise" (as Obama obviously thinks is okay), and call that a family. So that's my main issue with "gay marriage".
Well I can see that reasoning -- let people do what they want, as as long as they're not hurting others. It's true that we shouldn't try to legislate morality. Like, we're not trying to make laws against fornication, etc.
But as I stated before, the one big problem is that "equal rights" to marry naturally means equal rights to adopt children. So it is hurting other people -- the most innocent and vulnerable people -- little children.
It should be unthinkable to give a baby boy to two gay men to "raise" (as Obama obviously thinks is okay), and call that a family. So that's my main issue with "gay marriage".
So we are here, with our reactions, and with our expressions because The Lord gives us freedom.
The Bible is the unquestionable guide to our salvation. When the land we live in falls farther from right and wrong and into a neutrality of gray then it becomes harder for people to see what is right. I believe that parents need to stand very closely with their children when things like this happen. Children voice the views of their parents quite loudly and it will be a topic they will encounter.
Obama's belief of "right" will confuse a lot more people. This 'right' to marriage is a confused mind, and a child will be even more confused when they're told that people have this 'right'. There is an emotion and a want that attacks us all and just because you feel that you have strong emotions and have a strong desire does not make you right. This does not make what you are doing correct because it is immoral and useless and the mind is a confused and rotting thing without direction from The Lord and from His Word.
This is going to confuse a lot of people and will make some abandon their views of right wrong, moral and immoral. This confused leader has been nothing but a brewer of confusion.
The Bible is the unquestionable guide to our salvation. When the land we live in falls farther from right and wrong and into a neutrality of gray then it becomes harder for people to see what is right. I believe that parents need to stand very closely with their children when things like this happen. Children voice the views of their parents quite loudly and it will be a topic they will encounter.
Obama's belief of "right" will confuse a lot more people. This 'right' to marriage is a confused mind, and a child will be even more confused when they're told that people have this 'right'. There is an emotion and a want that attacks us all and just because you feel that you have strong emotions and have a strong desire does not make you right. This does not make what you are doing correct because it is immoral and useless and the mind is a confused and rotting thing without direction from The Lord and from His Word.
This is going to confuse a lot of people and will make some abandon their views of right wrong, moral and immoral. This confused leader has been nothing but a brewer of confusion.
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A
(You have the right to write in any name onto the ballot -- my friend always writes in his own name since he doesn't like any of the candidates.)
still why was this made an issue in 1998?
I feel that people are being manipulated by their beliefs as an assistant pastor pointed out sometimes the bill says they are raising minimum wages to nine dollars and then slide in that they are raising taxes by 20 percent. they get everyone focused on the minimum wage increase and ignore the tax.
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M
This is an interesting assertion. Reading through the Bible, a lot of those whom we'd consider faithful nevertheless questioned God, wrote poems to lament his apparent absence, his allowance of injustice, etc. It seems that in a healthy relationship with God, God will do things we don't understand and we are expected to express questions and concerns to him. Why is the Bible above God in that sense?
Job and his friends, who were allowed to question God at length, before he gave his answers. Israel, whose name itself is a testimony to God's patience with our struggle. Abraham, who haggled with God at Sodom. Jesus himself, who prayed for another possibility. Etc., etc.
Don't get me wrong - this isn't the first time I've heard the claim. However, every time I hear it, I get the sense that the believer doesn't have a relationship with a living Person, in which there are necessarily misunderstandings and disagreements, but the believer is following the Bible as a constitution he hasn't really read.
Unquestionable? No. We might not agree with the answers, but the entire Bible invites question. In short, this sounds a lot like bibliolatry.
Everyone within earshot of the debate knows the Christian stance on gay marriage, civil unions, domestic partnerships, etc. You don't have to worry - there are millions being spent on making sure your message is overwhelmingly clear.
What you're witnessing is disagreement. The two are often confused, because if someone disagrees with me, it must be because they're confused, right? But no.
Job and his friends, who were allowed to question God at length, before he gave his answers. Israel, whose name itself is a testimony to God's patience with our struggle. Abraham, who haggled with God at Sodom. Jesus himself, who prayed for another possibility. Etc., etc.
Don't get me wrong - this isn't the first time I've heard the claim. However, every time I hear it, I get the sense that the believer doesn't have a relationship with a living Person, in which there are necessarily misunderstandings and disagreements, but the believer is following the Bible as a constitution he hasn't really read.
Unquestionable? No. We might not agree with the answers, but the entire Bible invites question. In short, this sounds a lot like bibliolatry.
Everyone within earshot of the debate knows the Christian stance on gay marriage, civil unions, domestic partnerships, etc. You don't have to worry - there are millions being spent on making sure your message is overwhelmingly clear.
What you're witnessing is disagreement. The two are often confused, because if someone disagrees with me, it must be because they're confused, right? But no.
T
Mori, I might say the looseness of your paraphrase distracts from the point you're attempting to make: These issues are indeed a disagreement.
However, whereas you limit the disagreement to Christians and non-Christians, I have a proper dissuasion to that scope. The disagreement is God's will, and man's. Since God is omnipotent, disagreement becomes a moot point doesn't it?
To address specifically your paraphrase, I will make this point: A questioning heart is not in disagreement. When one questions, they are seeking an answer.A question, therefore, can be made in likeness to seeking. Disagreement involves a separation, and therefore can be made in likeness TO separation. Doubt is the seed of separation, but I won't get into that much.
We can raise questions to God, he welcomes them in fact, but can we question God's will himself to separate our will from his (thus assuming we have power over God)?
However, whereas you limit the disagreement to Christians and non-Christians, I have a proper dissuasion to that scope. The disagreement is God's will, and man's. Since God is omnipotent, disagreement becomes a moot point doesn't it?
To address specifically your paraphrase, I will make this point: A questioning heart is not in disagreement. When one questions, they are seeking an answer.A question, therefore, can be made in likeness to seeking. Disagreement involves a separation, and therefore can be made in likeness TO separation. Doubt is the seed of separation, but I won't get into that much.
We can raise questions to God, he welcomes them in fact, but can we question God's will himself to separate our will from his (thus assuming we have power over God)?
J
Sin is gross. It is disgusting. It is vile. What's wrong with expressing that truth? When I think of my own sin, often the grossness and how disgusting and vile it is, is what comes to mind first.
I for one, appreciate calling sin, sin.
The lesser of two evils is always evil. Keep that in mind.
It would be much better if we Christians stepped up to the plate, instead of trying to have our fancy townhouses and going with the consumeristic flow.
James 1:27
27 Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.
I for one, appreciate calling sin, sin.
The lesser of two evils is always evil. Keep that in mind.
It would be much better if we Christians stepped up to the plate, instead of trying to have our fancy townhouses and going with the consumeristic flow.
James 1:27
27 Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.
M
I don't think so, no. To clarify, I suspected he was trying to inherit what he thought was the Bible's unquestionability, thereby sweeping the discussion under a rug as quickly as possible. I suspected that by calling everyone who disagreed "confused" he was setting up a universe in which there's no room for disagreement.
I began by taking issue with the claim that the Bible is the unquestionable guide to salvation. I give examples in the Bible itself to show that never has this attitude of unquestioning prevailed in scripture and, quite to the contrary, some of the most famous names in Christian history disagreed with and questioned God. His Bible's unquestionability is ahistorical and has little to do with the faith as actually practiced.
So, I argue, how much more can we question his written word? Implicitly, how much more can we question his followers?
Even if I were to concede that the Bible is unquestionable, therefore, we still have things to talk about among ourselves. His appeal to its unquestionability and your (understandable though misplaced) attempt at a dissuasion and appeal to God's omnipotence aren't helpful.
In my reading of the scriptures, yes. God has on several occasions through an act of will made himself answerable to his creation.
I began by taking issue with the claim that the Bible is the unquestionable guide to salvation. I give examples in the Bible itself to show that never has this attitude of unquestioning prevailed in scripture and, quite to the contrary, some of the most famous names in Christian history disagreed with and questioned God. His Bible's unquestionability is ahistorical and has little to do with the faith as actually practiced.
So, I argue, how much more can we question his written word? Implicitly, how much more can we question his followers?
Even if I were to concede that the Bible is unquestionable, therefore, we still have things to talk about among ourselves. His appeal to its unquestionability and your (understandable though misplaced) attempt at a dissuasion and appeal to God's omnipotence aren't helpful.
In my reading of the scriptures, yes. God has on several occasions through an act of will made himself answerable to his creation.
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But two women and two men can't make babies. I know..you knew that already
The point is that it offends God, and allowing gay marriages to freely take place will only encourage more sinfulness (because now it is officially state-approved and protected by law) and it may even influence the minds of young people who would have never considered exploring homosexuality at all. Now they may become curious because its been given the big "OK" by society.
The point is that it offends God, and allowing gay marriages to freely take place will only encourage more sinfulness (because now it is officially state-approved and protected by law) and it may even influence the minds of young people who would have never considered exploring homosexuality at all. Now they may become curious because its been given the big "OK" by society.
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M
But two women and two men can't make babies. I know..you knew that already
The point is that it offends God, and allowing gay marriages to freely take place will only encourage more sinfulness (because now it is officially state-approved) and it may even influence the minds of young people who would have never considered exploring homosexuality at all. Now they may become curious because its been given the big "OK" by society.
The point is that it offends God, and allowing gay marriages to freely take place will only encourage more sinfulness (because now it is officially state-approved) and it may even influence the minds of young people who would have never considered exploring homosexuality at all. Now they may become curious because its been given the big "OK" by society.
... oh my.
You do. Well, we're not that numerous and you're all just that loud.
M
When God asks why you spent so much money and time making it illegal for gay people to get these legal protections, when there is so much divorce, starvation, pain, and war going on, what's the answer going to be?
When he asks why you were so obsessed about this one sin, why you turned people away at your doors or made it clear that they weren't welcome, how are you going to explain that?
When he wants to know why you were laughing at gay folks, not knowing they were listening, it's going to be too late to confess. Your God will punish you for being cruel.
You know you're focusing on the legal rights of a small minority to the exclusion of other things that should be keeping you busy. You know what you're doing is hurtful. You know you can't stop sin just by making it illegal. You're just driving it underground and further away from any possible reconciliation.
For instance: I'm done. I've tried hanging out among Christians for a while now. Why? I don't know. People tell me I'm looking for something and I think I am. I still believe in God and believe in the power of the gospel. But you folks... all of you, not just the ones on here. If this is the best you can do, I don't want it. If this is the best God has done with his people, none of this is worth it.
I'm certain that if homosexuality sends me to hell, I'll be in good company. Just because you say Lord, Lord or know Leviticus won't save you on that day. Just because you voted against gay folks won't get you out of what you deserve. Burn in your piety.
When he asks why you were so obsessed about this one sin, why you turned people away at your doors or made it clear that they weren't welcome, how are you going to explain that?
When he wants to know why you were laughing at gay folks, not knowing they were listening, it's going to be too late to confess. Your God will punish you for being cruel.
You know you're focusing on the legal rights of a small minority to the exclusion of other things that should be keeping you busy. You know what you're doing is hurtful. You know you can't stop sin just by making it illegal. You're just driving it underground and further away from any possible reconciliation.
For instance: I'm done. I've tried hanging out among Christians for a while now. Why? I don't know. People tell me I'm looking for something and I think I am. I still believe in God and believe in the power of the gospel. But you folks... all of you, not just the ones on here. If this is the best you can do, I don't want it. If this is the best God has done with his people, none of this is worth it.
I'm certain that if homosexuality sends me to hell, I'll be in good company. Just because you say Lord, Lord or know Leviticus won't save you on that day. Just because you voted against gay folks won't get you out of what you deserve. Burn in your piety.
Dont get me wrong..I am Bible believing Christian and I believe that homosexuality is wrong...however..The law is designed to protect the people, to make sure i dont harm you, stal from you or damage your property. Gays getting married doenst harm me or take anything away from me. I know in my heart what is right and wrong and i dont need the law to tell me so. If you're gonna base the law an Biblical principles, you also have to outlaw, lieing, cusssing, gossiping..ect,,,
