The Elect?

xBluxTunicx82 · Jun 18, 2012

KINSMAN. From Websters 1847 dictionary, kinsman is simply defined as 'a man of the same race or family; one related by blood.' From Strong's Concordance, the Hebrew word for kinsman is ga'al (#1350) and means "to redeem, i.e. to be the next of kin (and as such to buy back a relative's property, marry his widow, etc.): avenger, deliver, purchase, ransom, revenger." In another source "it referred originally to the duty of every tribesman, or clansman, to support or avenge the cause of his tribe, clan or family."

REDEEMER. Again, from Websters 1847, redeemer is 'one who redeems; the Savior of the world, Jesus Christ." Redeemed is 'to purchase back; to liberate or rescue from captivity or bondage; to rescue and deliver from the bondage of sin and the penalties of God's violated law, by obedience and suffering in the place of the sinner, or by doing and suffering that which is accepted in lieu of the sinner's obedience - "Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us" Galations 3:13

I won't give scriptures, as we are students of the Word, and if you diligently pray and seek the truth, it will be shown to you. I will give you a book to read, but not a verse, that way there can be no misunderstanding of the context of what is written.

Yah bless

GreenNnice · Jun 18, 2012

We are elected, God chooses us , everyone gets CHOSEN, and then, individually, we hezr His Word, abd,, we embrace Christ's death, believe in faith of Him, having died on cross for our sins VOTE, so to speak, to make Him Saviour of our life. So simple

Romans 10:13 - ”For whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

xBluxTunicx82 · Jun 18, 2012

How is 'everyone' chosen? When God called out Abraham and his seed through Isaac and Jacob to be a 'treasure unto Him'? "Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above ALL people: for all the earth is mine:' Exodus 19:5

How then can everyone be included, if this seedline is chosen above all people. From start to finish, scripture is replete with proof, that the house of Israel, and ITS salvation are in context with scripture. Before our ancestors began spreading the gospel to the four corners of the earth, it was only the Anglo-Celtic peoples that worshipped and loved Christ. And it has been that way since... we have brought the world to know God, just as commanded. Before us introducing these heathen races to God, they were eating one another, worshipping cows, rats, and dragons, and being just that..a heathen. Heck, they still do that in many parts of the world today, yet you purport they have the capacity to know and understand Jesus?

If they had the laws written on their hearts, then they wouldn't even desire to do the aforementioned abominations, but they reject Christ. Christ said "But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you." John 10:26 They aren't of His sheep, simple.

If it were merely a matter of 'believing' then we would have a weak God to follow. People 'believe' in evolution, they 'believe' in the power of man, they even 'believe' in aliens! But, to be called of Yahshua Messiah is a walk, not a belief. If you do not carry a cross, or suffer the worlds hatred toward you, then you are not on that path. And from the looks of it, much of modern judeo christanity is full of hypocrisies and lies, to the point where the world doesn't hate it, rather, they think its a joke.

Yah bles

cronjecj · Jun 18, 2012

GreenNnice said:

We are elected, God chooses us , everyone gets CHOSEN, and then, individually, we hezr His Word, abd,, we embrace Christ's death, believe in faith of Him, having died on cross for our sins VOTE, so to speak, to make Him Saviour of our life. So simple

Romans 10:13 - ”For whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

many are called, only a few....

GreenNnice · Jun 18, 2012

cronjecj said:

Only a few choose Him.

'for whoever' calls on name of the Lord is saved.'

Many are called to serve Christ, in a capacity of great worth, but few, truly, answer the call with devotion Christ so desires and so, therefore, ONLY few are chosen.

But ALL get the Lord's drawing near them”...that NONE should perish.”
Those who do not call Him after He's called us REJECT the call.

Our choice, 100% choice to be His sheep. Those who do not answer the call to sacrifice their life in same way Christ did on cross, living 100% as Christ maps out in scripture, are not His, croners

cronjecj · Jun 18, 2012

GreenNnice said:

the choosing from God comes first then the believing from man.

GreenNnice said:

is the Lord then slack by not getting ALL men (ever created and ever will be) saved ? God forbid

GreenNnice said:

because only a few are chosen by Him (God) to believe the gospel.

the natural man which is spiritually dead in his sins cannot call upon the Lord, it is impossible unless the Lord draws him first and those He draws He will raise them up on the last day (the elect).

GreenNnice said:

there is no freewill in justification, no one seeks for God.

salvation is 100% the work of God.

..there you go greenie from another meenie

GreenNnice · Jun 18, 2012

cronjecj said:

Faith comes by hearing, and, hearing by the word of God, croners.

You have heard God's Word, have you not?

What drew you to Him?
Why were YOU so special to be picked?

You were.
You weren't.

For whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. Romans 10:13. You don't want to read any more into God's Word, croners, that be already there, and, God will not like (forbid?) like it (one bit) if you tell Him our salvation is 100% Him based on and not 100% faith-based by His grace.

Why in the world would you want to eliminate Christ's grace, croners, why did Christ die on the cross. Are all those old writings untrue, your not a meanie either, just a one trying to make sense of their faith in Him. I pray you do, in Him, you will, croners ,for MANY get called to get quests for God's glory, but few answer the call correctly

The Lord leads me, cronies, like He does ALL and, has since the time of Adam and Eve. Many tried to follow, few actally did, and, even fewer do today

It's all so sad UNLESS one puts their trust and hope 100% in His finished work.and hekps others see The light shining brightly, like it did to Paul, right before their very eyes. Surprise!!

He was there all the time.
He was there all The time.
Listen to this song, He is 'there' inside all those whosoever choose to believe in Him, for all time, not some time, or many time or few time, ALL TIME.

John 3:16, so simple, so true

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2R7zZ0Dhm0[/video]

feedm3 · Jun 18, 2012

Rom 1:16 ....you cant get around that

And he draws the same way he calls....by the gospel. If we choose to adhere, then we have been drawn by the saving power of the gospel.

The natural man CAN call upon the Lord, because the Ephesians did exactly that:

1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 1. were they really dead?
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 2. were they not natural in this state?
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 3. By nature, meaning they were natural sinners, who did what? answered to the gospel see below.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

They were dead in sins, they repetned by the message of the gospel, then obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine ---thus saving them. They could NOT HAVE BEEN SAVED BEFORE THEY WERE SAVED.
If they were dead in sin, they were not saved.

They as all who choose to obey God are predestined as heirs according to the promise:
Eph1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 1
2 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise

See if you just keep reading, you can see the meaning. Eph is a deathblow to your heresy.

"YE" trusted after "YE heard the word of truth" which is the "gospel of your salvation". Rom 1:16.

It's amazing how much you fight this, is that you don't know what to do, if your view is not correct? You were not chosen, your going to find that out, just because you close your eyes and wont accept truth, does not mean God is going to just overlook your willful ignorance. Sincerity, does ont save us, you are sincerely wrong.

Then why are we told to seek, if none seeks?
Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him

So your saying he does not reward anyone, since no one seeks him. Did the Hebrews writer not know that no one seeks him? Did Matthew tell us to do what no can nor will do? I think not.

Paul was citing Isa, and applying it to give the message, we are undeserving of God's grace. Nothing more, yet you use this over and over knowing the way you interpret it, it contradicts other passages, as teh ones above. Like I said "willful ignorance".

Every point you have made has easily been refuted with a few passages kept in context.

God must fist draw us - Rom 1:16 shows us he draws us by the gospel, and to "everyone", well we are not unversalists, so "everyone" must mean what it says, and must be by choice, since the gospel is the power of salvation - not a lack of freewill.

The natural man cannot call upon God's help - Eph 2 showed those who were dead in sins called upon his name and were saved by the message of the gospel.

No one seeks God - cant be true, two passages that show your interpretation is wrong.

Salvation is 100% from God - duh.

So instead of choosing to listen to this, you will choose to stay in willful ignorance, hoping if your wrong God will see you were sincere. NOPE Paul was sincere while persecuting the church, yet was he saved in this state?

Straw man. No one is taking credit for the grace of God.

cronjecj · Jun 18, 2012

feedm3 said:

Rom 1:16 ....you cant get around that

And he draws the same way he calls....by the gospel. If we choose to adhere, then we have been drawn by the saving power of the gospel.

The natural man CAN call upon the Lord, because the Ephesians did exactly that:

1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 1. were they really dead?
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 2. were they not natural in this state?
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 3. By nature, meaning they were natural sinners, who did what? answered to the gospel see below.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

They were dead in sins, they repetned by the message of the gospel, then obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine ---thus saving them. They could NOT HAVE BEEN SAVED BEFORE THEY WERE SAVED.
If they were dead in sin, they were not saved.

They as all who choose to obey God are predestined as heirs according to the promise:
Eph1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 1
2 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise

See if you just keep reading, you can see the meaning. Eph is a deathblow to your heresy.

"YE" trusted after "YE heard the word of truth" which is the "gospel of your salvation". Rom 1:16.

It's amazing how much you fight this, is that you don't know what to do, if your view is not correct? You were not chosen, your going to find that out, just because you close your eyes and wont accept truth, does not mean God is going to just overlook your willful ignorance. Sincerity, does ont save us, you are sincerely wrong.

Then why are we told to seek, if none seeks?
Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him

So your saying he does not reward anyone, since no one seeks him. Did the Hebrews writer not know that no one seeks him? Did Matthew tell us to do what no can nor will do? I think not.

Paul was citing Isa, and applying it to give the message, we are undeserving of God's grace. Nothing more, yet you use this over and over knowing the way you interpret it, it contradicts other passages, as teh ones above. Like I said "willful ignorance".

Every point you have made has easily been refuted with a few passages kept in context.

God must fist draw us - Rom 1:16 shows us he draws us by the gospel, and to "everyone", well we are not unversalists, so "everyone" must mean what it says, and must be by choice, since the gospel is the power of salvation - not a lack of freewill.

The natural man cannot call upon God's help - Eph 2 showed those who were dead in sins called upon his name and were saved by the message of the gospel.

No one seeks God - cant be true, two passages that show your interpretation is wrong.

Salvation is 100% from God - duh.

So instead of choosing to listen to this, you will choose to stay in willful ignorance, hoping if your wrong God will see you were sincere. NOPE Paul was sincere while persecuting the church, yet was he saved in this state?

Straw man. No one is taking credit for the grace of God.

yea eat at your straw, straw man.

the word of God says it is impossible for a
man to seek God unless God draws him
and whom God draws partake in the
election by the grace of God.

not everyone is chosen.

justification, salvation, faith, peace
love, joy, meekness..u name it is
all the work of Him (God) alone.

GreenNnice · Jun 18, 2012

Beautiful words, feed, ALL of our beautiful all-saving Saviour's said Truth said so many years ago, and, is true today, and will be true forevermore. God is the same today as He was yesterday and He will be the same forevermore.

He's your Saviour , He is drawing you if you are not a believer when you read this, He is callling you to believe in Him .

It's so simple, your call

He who hath ears let him hear the words of God spoken through man in His Word !!!!

feedm3 · Jun 18, 2012

cronjecj said:

Wow, Did not deal with one passage that proved your false view wrong. Just closed your eyes and kept repeating the same thing. WILLFUL IGNORANCE

You may have well just typed "uh uh, no its not" for your response. I could give you a hundred passages, but whats the point, do you tear them out of your bible?

Instead of a study, talking with you feels more like:
"Your straw man! His work alone! Don't confuse me with the facts! I like what I believe, don't care what that says! My pastor is always right!" lol

jimmydiggs · Jun 19, 2012

croncejc, you're wasting your time.

When the other person thinks you're a Nazi, you cannot maintain a discussion any longer.

Save your pearls for another day.

feedm3 · Jun 19, 2012

jimmydiggs said:

Pearls? Man, I just dont get you guys. I can see how someone can be in error, but when so many passages show your dead wrong, it seems you both just pretend it was never said. It's weird, like part of your belief is you cant be wrong, or not to look at things that could show your wrong. It's like just sticking your fingers in your ears and humming so you wont hear anything that shows your wrong. It's like you both have a "dont confuse me with facts" kind of attitude. You just keep repeating the same old already been beaten arguments. Just saying, it's weird.

GreenNnice · Jun 19, 2012

jimmydiggs said:

Yes, God is Saviour of all,, not a select few who get to go to Heaven. All are elected by God to VOTE for Him their Saviour and Lord. It is The individual petson's chouce , freewill to choose, jimdig, not some Hitlerian master race that only gets togo.to..Heaven and rest perish. No way, jimdig, you greatly err, and, you greatly err othets, too. God be with you for changing and brainwashing believers to be from.thinking they can be called, from that persecution of thought , shame on you.

For whoever calls on The name of The Lord shall be saved . Romans 10:13 .

cronjecj · Jun 19, 2012

feedm3 said:

hmm straw...., Rom 1:16 says the gospel of Christ
is the power of God unto salvation to everyone
that believes.

true, yet it is IMPOSSIBLE for a man to believe
because he is spiritually dead thus the gospel is
FOOLISH to him UNLESS God draws him FIRST.

we preach the gospel but it isn't our work to convince
the lost, it's God's.

like jimdigs said, don't cast pea.........

GreenNnice · Jun 19, 2012

cronjecj said:

()()()()()()()()()
Explain 'it' ALL away, croners, don't worry, we keep posting said Truthe s, and, you're (and jimdig's and enochson and tunixblue,etc. Calvinistics) hooved feet will soon not be running others (and.yourselves) over 'salvation-lost' cliffs (read Pilgrim's Progress?) . I just wonder why you can't see the Truth that...set the captives free sets you free too

Yes, GOD draws the unbeliever to Him, their is a choosing, but it is the person's individual choice to believe. So, yes, you got it 1/2 right, God does draw us BUT, and, it's a big 'but,' God's power is NOT imposed on someone's salvation. Beggers, in this case, CAN be choosers of Christ, too. EVERYONE who believes SALVATION IS GOING TO BE THEIRS .

God is not slack, croners, in His promises, He is just with sooo much Love for the mankind He created. ALLL MANKIND, BELIEVERS AND UNBELIEVERS. ”...That None should perish. ”

God quickens the spiritually dead's soul to come to Him, croners.

Don't try to think you can play God, boys, you can't , and, when it comes to His creation ALL are given a chance to believe

ALL will HEAR The gospel , by God drawing near them, before the end of our current age comes and Jesus comes again.

feedm3 · Jun 19, 2012

cronjecj said:

So you just said the gospel is the power of unto salvation to EVERYONE who believes ----------Evey one only those who God draws to the gospel the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes?

cronjecj · Jun 19, 2012

GreenNnice said:

yes and where does faith comes from after
one hears the word of God ?

GreenNnice said:

by the power of the Holy Spirit
after hearing the word of God.

GreenNnice said:

im not special, and to be honest i
have no answer to that question
although i can only say it's by the
grace of God that i can be a
partaker of the election like many
other.

GreenNnice said:

and while you @it please pray for mercy, im about to
undergo my 5th limb salvage in the next month or
so.

GreenNnice · Jun 19, 2012

cronjecj said:

____
From God come our opportunities to grow our faith, he has given everyone a 'measure of faith,' the Lord leads our individual 'walks,' croners, and, yes, the Spirit, leads, too .

What drew you?

Great, and, if you want go on my 'what drew you' thread and tell others, it can be a good witness, it does not have anything to do with our differing beliefs, we both agree on that . God changes us for His glory, but we must believe in that change. (faith) .

None of us are special in 'that' way, but we ARE all specials to Him. Doesn't scripture say His eye is on The sparrow anf, we are numbered as the sands of The shore ?

God is Love, croners.

'Many are called ' can be a confusing verse unless you transfend in faith to believe what the Spirit is teaching you through His Word, as God sees this genuine act AAA nd rewards with knowledge of mystery of He and His Kingdom and, too, our own lives.

Pharoah's heart was hardenened right.. But Pharoah chose to have a hard heart no matter what so Pharoah was drawn to by God but Pharoah was with hard heart, completeky against God, pharoah therefore was never CALLED. God drew near to Pharoah, too, like He did/does everybody, but Pharoah would NOT CHOOSE God..

This,perhaps, is too deep of thought, but, The Lord leads, and, THIS explains the 'many are called, but few are chosen.' You see that King (God) invited those friends of that wedding party in The parable but they wanted NOTHING to do with God and left before God could even call.them to Him. So.sad

God kept searching and, FINALLY, found common streetfolk to go.to take up.The seat's of His Son's wedding. God will.get done what He is going to do. He will fulfill. But that verse too, applies to that group of people who were all invited to wedding but large majority went off did own thing so God called others to their seats. The story does not end there, God would call on people until none left to call, He wants ALL to draw near. But , yeah, for sake of parable, The lesson was taught in The limited context of a wedding event.

The Lord leads, croners, you stay affixed in faith and knowing He is leading your life best as is right for you, and, the rest is easy

I will pray, even though I don't understand what 5th limb salvage completely means.

meecha · Jun 19, 2012

As a Calvinist .... a very reluctant one at that...I just want to say I am absolutley ...100% confused ...as to why God would choose me?

The Elect?

xBluxTunicx82

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GreenNnice

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cronjecj

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