TRUE GRACE MEANS YOU SIN NO MORE

[iamsoandso]

then you cannot "leap with joy",,,,,,,,,,,,you cannot say "thank you for the blood",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,it is not of your understanding,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,you cannot rest,,,,,,,,,,,you hold out your hands and ask the lord to fill your hands with hope,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,you do not hold out your hands and behold the hope that fills your hands,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,you say the one given grace stumbles about and never gives thanks to the lord for the blood of the cross,,,,,,,,,,,,,,you say a man comes and does not come with the Gospel of the cross because ,,,,,,"he does not understand it",,,,,,,,,,,and the scripture states ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"receive no man lest he preaches Christ crucified",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,that which i am given i speak,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,i cannot speak the thing i do not understand,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[iamsoandso]

i cannot say of a truth "thank you for saving me",,,,,,,,,,,,,,unless i believe he has done so at the cross,,,,,,,,,,,,or else if i am in doubt i will say ,,,,,,,,,,"oh,lord please come and save me",,,there are two thing i have said one is a man who sees the salvation of the cross and his works are that he is giving thanks and the other who is of the unbelievers is asking him to do what is already done,,,,,,,,,,,,,,begging him for the the thing he is already given and he cannot see nor understand,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[iamsoandso]

one is giving thanks for salvation and the other is seeking it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,their works confess them,,,,,,,,,,,,the believer and the unbeliever,,,,,,,,,,,,,one is at rest and the other has much works to go about,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[feedm3]

The Grace of God is the fact that God sent his son so we can be made a child of God, even while we were all dead in sin.

So many here want to turn the grace into a covering for sin. Every time one says it is not, they run to the same old accusation, "are you saying your sin free" when they know, no one is saying this, because all have sinned and fell short of the glory God.

Others want to believe because God's grace in him sending Christ was a free gift, we do have to anything for it, if that were true, then all would be saved, since it has appeared unto all men - Tit 2:10.

Yet was does God teach us about grace, and what does grace teach us about our lifestyles?
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world

So according to what Paul said to Titus, Grace is also a teaching. What could this mean?
The word of God is also the grace of God. Because through it, we can obtain salvation, even while were dead in sins, which is why the gospel is the power of Salivation - Rom 1:16.

The gospel reveals Christ to us, and what he did for us. The Gospel tells us what we must do in Oder to receive Christ (Heb 5:8-9), and gospel tells us repentance from sin is essential. Repentance itself is the grace of God, because it allows us to stop sin, and be made clean as if we never did it, through the blood of Christ.

What else does grace teach us, other than we must deny worldly lusts (SINS)?
It also tells us, we are not to use grace as a covering for our sins, and that doing so, is doing despite unto the Spirit of grace:

Wilful Sin - unrepentant, a continuance in sin, a turning our back on God, and his grace:
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

The contrast of Christians punishment, and those under the law (proving these hebrews were Christians, not under the law)
28 He that despised Moses 'law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace

The Greek word in verse 29 for "despite" means to insult, we insult the Spirit of grace when we attempt to use it as a covering for sin.

For a simple illustration, use Noah, because Noah found "Grace in the eyes of the Lord".

How do we see Noah receiving this grace?
1. God told Noah what he could not have known by himself - There was a flood coming
2. He told Noah what he need to do to avoid this destruction - Build thee an ark

Was this grace free and a gift from God - Of course, Noah did not have to do anything to receive this information.

How it compares now:
1. God has warned us that which we could not know on our own - Matt 25, there will be judgment, their will be condemnation
2. what we need to do to avoid this condemnation - Rom 8:1, no condemnation to those who are in Christ - HE is our ark

Was this free, and a gift? Yes it was, nothing we did deserved it, and nothing did we have to pay to receive this teaching of grace.

Now, what if Noah would have refused to build the ark, because he considered that "a work"?
What if he said, "No Lord, for I found grace, building an ark to be saved would be a work, and would not be free, So YOU NEED TO BUILD THE ARK AND PLACE ME IN IT, BECAUSE EVEN WALKING TO IT WOULD BE WORK ON MY PART"?

Would Noah have been saved? NO! He would have "received the grace of God in VAIN" because he refused to do what is instructed in that Grace.
II Cor6: 1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain

But why was Noah saved? Because of God's grace+++++His obedience to it:
Gen 6:22 Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he

And for those of you who will say, No, you cant compare Noah's physical salvation to our Spiritual, well Peter did, read II Pet 3.

Grace was grace then, just as it is now, yet many want to tell God to do all the work, or the grace is not free, blasphemy.

So what did Paul mean in Eph 2?

First, notice what God told Israel about the promise land:
Due 9:4 Speak not thou in thine heart, after that the Lord thy God hath cast them out from before thee, saying, For my righteousness the Lord hath brought me in to possess this land: but for the wickedness of these nations the Lord doth drive them out from before thee.
5 Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, dost thou go to possess their land: but for the wickedness of these nations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee, and that he may perform the word which the Lord sware unto thy fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob

What is God's message here? For Israel NOT to be puffed up into thinking because they were so righteousness, God have them this land to dwell in. Because that is not true, if it were, they could boast pridefully "we possess this land because we aer so righteous" - which God says NOT

Does this mean they did not have to obey God's commands, to get the land? Of course not, disobedience is why many of them perisned and were not allowed to see the land.

Now compare this message to Paul's in Eph 2:
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; (Could not have been because of their rightouness, they were dead in sin)
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. (But because of God's grace....)

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them

Is this saying, we do not have to obey the instructions grace teaches us? NO, it is saying the same thing God said to Israel, you Ephesians do not become puffed up and think God saved you, because you are so righteousness, you did nothing to deserve God sending his son, it was a gift just like to Noah, But they still have to obey.
NOt of works, means nothing they did, there was no deed the Ephesians did to deserve the grace of God that appeared unto all men.
Lest any should boast, they were dead in sin, they could not boast this.

This is the message, not that we do not have to obey, or that anything we do is a work, that saves. We are saved the same way, God's grace+our adherence to what it teaches us, not using it as a covering, and excuse for sin. Doing this is doing "despite unto the Spirit of grace"

 

[timothy10]

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? ( Romans 6:1-2 )

Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
( Romans 6:11-15 )

 

[tribesman]

Romans 2:12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

Titus 2:
11For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. 12It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.
15These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.

Romans 8:12Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation—but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. 13For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, 14because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship.g And by him we cry, “Abba,h Father.” 16The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

If sin were no longer in existence, how could we do anything that is sinful or ungodly. If the Holy Spirit doesn't give us the ability to walk away, why would grace be teacing us to say "no" to ungodliness. Whay would all of the writters of the New Testament have even said one word about sin patterns that could exclude us from the inheritence we have in Christ. It is all a matter of the heart now. We must live by the Spirit that God has given us...

I agree with what you have said here. The Spirit of God does indeed enable us to conquer sin. But I am not sure that we approach this matter from the same angle. Probably we do not. Because I see, in scripture, a huge difference between not living in sin and yet not being totally sin-free. The law of God does not assume a "potential" sinless man in and by himself. To the contrary it assumes sin and always points to the ordinances and instruments of atonement (or plainly said: the gospel). And it assumes obedience to the gospel. Do you see this difference?

Because when I read your statement that "sin is still in existence...We have the ability to walk away from it" then it is easy to (mis?)understand this to mean that we have the ability to walk away from sin altogether (if we can just "walk away from it", then how can it still exist, for us, since we have walked away from it?).

I hope you are not one of those who make wrong distinctions and will not call sin by its name (thus justifying sin) but will excuse some sin as "mistakes" or "not wilful" or "that is in the Old Testament!" or moral/ceremonial distinctions etc. These will not do. Sin is always sin and must be confessed (and absolved) as such. What is deadly is to justify, i e deny, that sin is actually sin. Something which is extremely harmful for a soul. Because those who go down that deadly road cannot yet be convicted of their sin.

It is in Christ alone that we are complete and perfect, righteous and blameless (without guilt) before God. Not in our own righteousness. This is how to walk in Him, this is how the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us, which is to walk after the Spirit. The flesh on the contrary will boast in its own efforts and not in the cross of Christ.

 

[rauleetoe]

Yes I agree that he forgives us for our sin but we are going to be sinners until the day we join him in heaven where we will sin no more.

I can only say in 2 corinthians 5:17 States that if any man is in Christ, he is a new creature..all things have passed away(all things,that sin nature/dead in christ).behold..all things are new!

collosians 3:3 For(as far as this world is concerned) you have died; and your (new/real)life is hidden with Christ in God.

I am the righteousness of God in christ Jesus..2 corinthians 5:21..

So why do we fixate on sin so much? Yes is sin still in the world? Nobody here is denying it..but it is no longer a problem with God, Jesus fixed that..he took care of the sin problem.

John the baptist said..behold the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world..it didnt say...the lamb of God who will one day take the sin, but he takes away..if he takes away the sin of the world..then its not in the way anymore! If something is taken out of the way, how can it obstruct you?

"Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!"
(St. John 1:29 New American Standard Bible)

We who say we are christian focus soley on sin it seems instead of on the redeeming life that God makes available through the sin offering/sin sacrifice of Jesus. If we would stop saying we are filty sin worms/wretches maybe we would believe that we are actually dead to sin,and alive in Jesus maybe we would start living this way..it's a thought.​

 

[feedm3]

I can only say in 2 corinthians 5:17 States that if any man is in Christ, he is a new creature..all things have passed away(all things,that sin nature/dead in christ).behold..all things are new!

collosians 3:3 For(as far as this world is concerned) you have died; and your (new/real)life is hidden with Christ in God.

I am the righteousness of God in christ Jesus..2 corinthians 5:21..

So why do we fixate on sin so much? Yes is sin still in the world? Nobody here is denying it..but it is no longer a problem with God, Jesus fixed that..he took care of the sin problem.

John the baptist said..behold the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world..it didnt say...the lamb of God who will one day take the sin, but he takes away..if he takes away the sin of the world..then its not in the way anymore! If something is taken out of the way, how can it obstruct you?

"Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!"
(St. John 1:29 New American Standard Bible)

We who say we are christian focus soley on sin it seems instead of on the redeeming life that God makes available through the sin offering/sin sacrifice of Jesus. If we would stop saying we are filty sin worms/wretches maybe we would believe that we are actually dead to sin,and alive in Jesus maybe we would start living this way..it's a thought.​

Yes but you cannot receive righteousness without obedience - Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness

Disobedience is sin, and there is no righteousness found in it.
Heb 5:9 and being made perfect he became the author of etenal salvation unto all them that obey him.


Also Christ made it so we can repent of sins we committed, and come to him and be made a child of God. This does not remove the temptation of sin, nor does it make sin not sin anymore.

Heb 10:26-f.

Otherwise the commands not sin would be pointless, yet it is God's will that we repent (stop living) in sin. We may fail from time to time, that is why we can repent. But in no way did Christ's death make sin something we can do and not have eternal consequences for committing it.

 

[rauleetoe]

Yes but you cannot receive righteousness without obedience - Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness

Disobedience is sin, and there is no righteousness found in it.
Heb 5:9 and being made perfect he became the author of etenal salvation unto all them that obey him.


Also Christ made it so we can repent of sins we committed, and come to him and be made a child of God. This does not remove the temptation of sin, nor does it make sin not sin anymore.

Heb 10:26-f.

Otherwise the commands not sin would be pointless, yet it is God's will that we repent (stop living) in sin. We may fail from time to time, that is why we can repent. But in no way did Christ's death make sin something we can do and not have eternal consequences for committing it.

You got it twisted dude..never said to be spiritually lazy or that you wouldn't have fruits in your life. Did i say go sin? No! Did Paul say go sin because we have grace..absolutely not..
but if you are a child of God, out of the overflow of that..it will change your life..you will be transformed..

 

[rauleetoe]

I think it is amazing that the minute anyone believes in Grace then all of the sudden you are advocating spiritual laziness or easy believism..when no one ever said that or implied that Believing in God's grace and that we are new creations in him makes us free to 'live like we were in the world'. You will obey God not because he twists your arm and says, do it or burn with the devil! You do it because you love God and you want to please him! Please don't put words in my mouth..

 

[feedm3]

You got it twisted dude..never said to be spiritually lazy or that you wouldn't have fruits in your life. Did i say go sin? No! Did Paul say go sin because we have grace..absolutely not..
but if you are a child of God, out of the overflow of that..it will change your life..you will be transformed..

I didn't say you said any of that, I was just making a point that came to mind after reading what you wrote, sorry I hit quote.

Spiritual lazy? Never said that either.

 

[feedm3]

I think it is amazing that the minute anyone believes in Grace then all of the sudden you are advocating spiritual laziness or easy believism..when no one ever said that or implied that Believing in God's grace and that we are new creations in him makes us free to 'live like we were in the world'. You will obey God not because he twists your arm and says, do it or burn with the devil! You do it because you love God and you want to please him! Please don't put words in my mouth..

Dude, what words did I put in your mouth? I never said you believe anything, I just added some scripture because you mentioned righteousness. If that offended you sorry. Get over it now.

 

[feedm3]

tribesman grow up and stop hitting like on everything said negative to me because you are mad you wont deal with any of my arguments. Its immature. Kind of funny though. nevermind keep doing it, it only gives me more reason to keep refuting everything you say and exposing you.

 

[rauleetoe]

Dude, what words did I put in your mouth? I never said you believe anything, I just added some scripture because you mentioned righteousness. If that offended you sorry. Get over it now.

I am not 'offended' merely saying that i have seen many who would quickly say that anyone who believes in Grace is forsaking works thus advocating easy believism/lazy sunday christianity.
Not what i said..get over what? I cannot reply? of course i can..no need to turn it into an argument..its a simple discussion on a christian thread last time i checked actually..

 

[feedm3]

I am not 'offended' merely saying that i have seen many who would quickly say that anyone who believes in Grace is forsaking works thus advocating easy believism/lazy sunday christianity.
Not what i said..get over what? I cannot reply? of course i can..no need to turn it into an argument..its a simple discussion on a christian thread last time i checked actually..

NO you replied twice, and said "Stop putting words in my mouth" and implied i was accusing you of whatever you said.

I added some scripture, who doing the arguing here and and acting if I put words in your mouth, that would be you. Yeah it's still a thread, that's why felt at liberty to comment.
You seem to have taken that against you, and now your still taking about it, and acting as if it's not you over reacting.

I believe in grace, I dont anyone who doesnt. "Not what you said" I know for the third time, I never said or implied you said this, so Yea GET OVER IT NOW

 

[Hurricane1]

I agree with what you have said here. The Spirit of God does indeed enable us to conquer sin. But I am not sure that we approach this matter from the same angle. Probably we do not. Because I see, in scripture, a huge difference between not living in sin and yet not being totally sin-free. The law of God does not assume a "potential" sinless man in and by himself. To the contrary it assumes sin and always points to the ordinances and instruments of atonement (or plainly said: the gospel). And it assumes obedience to the gospel. Do you see this difference?

Because when I read your statement that "sin is still in existence...We have the ability to walk away from it" then it is easy to (mis?)understand this to mean that we have the ability to walk away from sin altogether (if we can just "walk away from it", then how can it still exist, for us, since we have walked away from it?).

I hope you are not one of those who make wrong distinctions and will not call sin by its name (thus justifying sin) but will excuse some sin as "mistakes" or "not wilful" or "that is in the Old Testament!" or moral/ceremonial distinctions etc. These will not do. Sin is always sin and must be confessed (and absolved) as such. What is deadly is to justify, i e deny, that sin is actually sin. Something which is extremely harmful for a soul. Because those who go down that deadly road cannot yet be convicted of their sin.

It is in Christ alone that we are complete and perfect, righteous and blameless (without guilt) before God. Not in our own righteousness. This is how to walk in Him, this is how the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us, which is to walk after the Spirit. The flesh on the contrary will boast in its own efforts and not in the cross of Christ.

I am in agreement with you. When I said sin still exists, it was to say that sin "is sin". It is extremely harmful, and according to scripture, if we "practice it", it is deadly. We all sin because we are human, Jesus Christ is our sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins. We must repent of our sins whenever we commit them to be forgiven. That being said, we always have the power to say no to sin through the power of the Holy Spirit. We most definitely have the ability to walk away from any and every circumstance that can lead us to sinful behavior.

1 Corinthians 10: 12So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall! 13No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.

So, while we have a sacrifice that has forgiven us of all sins, past, present and future, we should NEVER treat the grace of God as an excuse to do whatever we want, including sinful behavior. We have the laws of God written on our hearts and in our minds, we need to rely on the indwelling Christ to give us the power and strength to walk away from sinful behavior.

 

[iamsoandso]

i totally disagree, "grace does not mean you sin no more",,,,,,,,,,,,,,"grace",,means you sinned and are a sinner,and that you must me forgiven,,,,,,,and that you were weak and that you were the very one who is responsible for the lord needing to be born then hated,then misunderstood then led to the cross and crucified for the sins you committed,,,,,,,,,,grace means you were so confused in your theory of thought that you needed to be rescued,,,,,,,,,,,it means that someone else made you forgiven because you could not muster up the works to save your own self,,it means you stand up all proud and you don't see you should crawl,,,,,,it means you are sucking on your thumb and you don't see someone else is changing your diaper and giving you a bottle,,,,,,grace does not mean that someone stuck a finger on you and made you a superhero,,,,,it means a superhero put his finger on you and purchased your "grace"that is he bestowed it upon you,,,,,,grace is a gift,,,,,,,,,,,,,you do not command it,,,,,,,,,i forgive those who trespass aginst me every day and ask for my forgiveness every day of my life,,,,,,,,,that is some crawl to the cross and some run far past it,,,,,,,,,,,and that is those that crawl keep crawling past it to lead those who ran past it back to it,,,,,,,,,,,"grace",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,it does not mean this, it means that,,,,,,,,,,,,,it means "you needed to be forgiven because you sin",,,,,,,,,it means you were given the grace of forgiveness at the cross,,,,,,,,,,,,"slipp around in the blood and either cry,,,,,,,,or boast",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[tribesman]

I am in agreement with you. When I said sin still exists, it was to say that sin "is sin". It is extremely harmful, and according to scripture, if we "practice it", it is deadly. We all sin because we are human, Jesus Christ is our sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins. We must repent of our sins whenever we commit them to be forgiven. That being said, we always have the power to say no to sin through the power of the Holy Spirit. We most definitely have the ability to walk away from any and every circumstance that can lead us to sinful behavior.

1 Corinthians 10: 12So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall! 13No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.

So, while we have a sacrifice that has forgiven us of all sins, past, present and future, we should NEVER treat the grace of God as an excuse to do whatever we want, including sinful behavior. We have the laws of God written on our hearts and in our minds, we need to rely on the indwelling Christ to give us the power and strength to walk away from sinful behavior.

There should be no excuse for ANY sin at all. No excuses or redefinitions whatsoever. No picking and choosing. Refusing to confess sin means that one is not convicted of his sin and that his sin remains. THAT is what is deadly. Not the fact that people can and do sin. And, of course, none should say that he has "the grace of God" in order to be free to sin.

However, you also wrote in post #26 that "Grace IS NOT the same as the forgiveness of sins". I cannot agree with this. The forgiveness of sins is central to the gospel, and is always to be administered through the word and the ministry of reconciliation (i.e. confession and absolution). This forgiveness is closely tied to the redemption which was purchased in full for God's people. Eph.1:7 says that "we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace". This grace spoken of here is justifying or salvific grace, which can not be earned and which is given once and for all to God's people. To cut it short: we definetely can not excuse any sin in the name of grace. But, thanks be to God; because of His great grace and mercy there is forgiveness of sins for those who ask for it by confessing their sins (which of course includes repentance).

As for the statement "we always have the power to say no to sin through the power of the Holy Spirit" I again would be wary of how one handles the term "sin" in this wise. Remember that the context of 1Cor.10.12-13 was about the israelites and their desert trail, of which some of them fell away. The warning was against idolatry. And being tempted is not to sin. As said, I do see a huge difference between a pattern of sin, or living in sin, and sin itself as such. Saying "no" to temptations we can do, but saying "no to sin" as such, we can not. Unlike the pharisaical surface scratching, God's law cuts extremely deep, wide and sharp on that matter. None can pride themselves of being totally sin free. Those who do so are deceived.

There is NO difference between an antinomian who think his sin is no real sin from a "christian perfectionist" who think his sin is no real sin. BOTH are justifying their sin and are displeasing God in their wicked pride. BOTH are lost.

 

[Deadtosin]

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+6:2&version=KJVGod forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

 

[edward99]

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+6:2&version=KJVGod forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Right. I like your posts Deadtosin.
Though I can't honestly say I've read any but those in the front page threads here, thank you for consistency and for your joyful exhortations.
So the remainder is not directed at you, but rather as a counter to the unfortunate OP title: Re: TRUE GRACE MEANS YOU SIN NO MORE


Can we ever get around to edifying the lambs (new converts) by fully explaining the reality of their new lives to them? By explaining what it actually says (which any honest person know matches their experience)? Without having some supremely righteous individual squawking about people making excuses for sin? Why not just let Paul himself speak.

In the previous Chapter Paul was explaining that sin and its consequence for us brought forth God's Grace (His Redemptive Plan through Christ)

Paul then, anticipating the inevitable, illogical and dangerous question:

"If that is so, why not continue in sin so that God's grace would more abound?"

Answers with:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+6:2&version=KJVGod forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

live any longer therein

One would think the meaning is plain enough even in that translation. But for the lambs who must surely despair when so many come forward claming they've reached perfection:

Shall we continue (ἐπιμένωμε&#957

The verb means primarily to remain or abide at or with, as 1 Corinthians 16:8; Philippians 1:24; and secondarily, to persevere, as Romans 11:23; Colossians 1:23. So better here, persist.