did Christ retrun in AD 70? Matthew 24

peterT · Jul 19, 2012

What do you mean it’s NOT about gathering God's elect
It is about gathering God's elect not resurrecting the wicked
You are twisting it to make it fit what you doctrine

Since when will God resurrect the wicked before he resurrects the elect?

49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

Gathering the tares and bind them in bundles, separating the wicked from among the just, and that’s the wicked people taking the mark of the beast and bowing the his image the angels sever the wicked from among the just,

And as for the days of Noah they were eating and drinking and new not until the flood came and swept them all away tribulation and wrath.

edward99 · Jul 19, 2012

IMINJC said:

Masoretic VS Septuagint (thank you MEECHA):

Azal (אצ&#1500

, or Azel, is a location mentioned in the Book of Zechariah 14:5, in Bibles that use the Hebrew Masoretic Text as the source for this verse. In Bibles that follow the Greek Septuagint (LXX) rendering, depending upon the source manuscript used, Azal is transcribed Jasol (ιασολ, pronounced "Yasol"), Jasod (a corruption of Jasol), or Asael (ασαη&#955

:

And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah.[1], King James Version

The valley between the hills will be filled in, yes, it will be blocked as far as Jasol, it will be filled in as it was by the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah[2], New Jerusalem Bible

...There is evidence that Clermont-Ganneau's theory and the LXX rendering of Zechariah 14:5 are correct. In 1984, Israeli geologists Daniel Wachs and Dov Levitte identified the location of a large landslide on the Mount of Olives that is directly adjacent to both Wady Yasul (Nahal Etzel) and the area of the ancient kings' gardens at the juncture of the Hinnom and Kidron Valleys.[8]. Wachs' and Levitte's discovery validates Jewish historian Flavius Josephus' account of an earthquake-caused landslide during King Uzziah's reign blocking up the kings' gardens in the valley.[9] It also accords with the LXX rendering of Zechariah 14:5, which states a valley will be blocked up as far as Azal. Additionally, the Israelis named this valley אצל (Etzel, or Etsel), with the same Hebrew spelling of Azal (אצ&#1500

....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azal_(Bible)

_

Azal: A Longtime Mystery Rediscovered

This is a synopsis of the detailed study, The Truth Hidden Right in Front of Our Eyes.

Azal (אצ&#1500

, or Azel, is the location mentioned in Zechariah 14:5 in bibles that use the Hebrew Masoretic Text (MT) as the source for this verse.

And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Zechariah 14:5, King James Version

In bibles that follow the Greek Septuagint (LXX) rendering, depending upon the source manuscript used, Azal is transcribed Jasol (ιασολ, pronounced Yasol), Jasod (a corruption of Jasol), or Asael (ασαη&#955

:

The valley between the hills will be filled in, yes, it will be blocked as far as Jasol, it will be filled in as it was by the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Zechariah 14:5, New Jerusalem Bible

These very different renderings from two authoritative sources obscure a clear understanding of Zechariah 14:5. Another obscurant factor is an almost universal ignorance, existent for many centuries until now, of what and where Azal is, or was. This is largely due to the fact that no known writing authored prior to the late 19th century clarifies this mystery.....

Deciphering Zechariah 14:5

Ariel82 · Jul 20, 2012

wow i guess its too much to hope that you would actually read what i post instead of twisting it to your strawman version of it.

i didn't say that the wicked were resurrected. i said they were gathered and tossed into the fire and that the elect would be gathered later into the barn....

peterT said:

as stated above I never said that. you just falsely assumed or intentionally misunderstood what i wrote....

why don't you read what God wrote IN context instead of inserting your own manmade beliefs into it?

Mat 13

47 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet that was cast into the sea and gathered some of every kind, 48 which, when it was full, they drew to shore; and they sat down and gathered the good into vessels, but threw the bad away. 49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, 50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”

you insert the whole mark of the beast thing to make mat 24 about revelation when i have stated its not there in the text. YOU have inserted your manmade doctrines into it.

i merely read it as them being cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”

acts 7

54 When they heard these things they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed at him with their teeth. 55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, 56 and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!”

and that happened, when God judged that wicked generation.

Mat 2
16 Then Herod, when he saw that he was deceived by the wise men, was exceedingly angry; and he sent forth and put to death all the male children who were in Bethlehem and in all its districts, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had determined from the wise men. 17 Then was fulfilled what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet, saying:
18 “A voice was heard in Ramah,
Lamentation, weeping, and great mourning,
Rachel weeping for her children,
Refusing to be comforted,
Because they are no more.”[c]

Jeremiah 31:15

Psalm 112:9-10

New King James Version (NKJV)

9 He has dispersed abroad,
He has given to the poor;
His righteousness endures forever;
His horn will be exalted with honor.
10 The wicked will see it and be grieved;
He will gnash his teeth and melt away;
The desire of the wicked shall perish.

i warn you now if you rile at me for posting scripture, i'm just going to ignore you because i don't have the time, energy or patience to deal with mean spirited snarkling.

becausehedied · Jul 20, 2012

IMINJC said:

Are you going to dismiss all the pasages that clearly teach the kingdom of God now in existence, for a view that some how might fit your understanding.

I your understanding of a few verses contridict a host of others then your understanding of those scriptuers is incorrect.

And there is still not a passage that ever teaches that Chrsit will set foot on this earth agian.

You take one passage oout of a highly symbolic book to show an earhtly kingdom?

If the kingdom of God was in existance as you say, then why was John the baptist and Jesus and his disciples preaching "Repent for the kingdom of God (heaven) is at HAND"

Mar_1:15 and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel."
Mat_3:2 and saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!"
Mat_4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."
Mat_10:7 And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'

Zec. 9:9 was fulfilled when Chrsit entered into Jerusalem before His death. I do not understand why you keep posting that Scripture

eternally-gratefull · Jul 20, 2012

JaumeJ said:

The only signs that Jesus said this generation would experience is the woes he gave to the pharisees.

No place is it mentione this generation would experience the signs of the end of the age, and thus it should not be infered Christ meant this.

Not to mention, some of the things spoken of as signs of the end of the age, could not have happened in their generation, thus logically, it should not be infered they happened then, because they would have been impossible in that day and age.

IMINJC · Jul 20, 2012

BECAUSEHEDIED

YOU SAID: And there is still not a passage that ever teaches that Chrsit will set foot on this earth agian.

That is a lie....Not my problem you refuse to see facts of scripture.

Acts 1:11
This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”

Zechariah 14:4
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,Which faces Jerusalem on the east.

I will tell you what is not a lie.....NO WHERE IN THE BIBLE WILL YOU FIND A SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS THAT JESUS WILL NEVER RETURN TO THIS EARTH. IF YOU POST IT I WILL STOP POSTING ON THIS FORUM FOREVER. IF YOU REFUSE TO POST IT...YOU SHOULD STOP.

peterT · Jul 20, 2012

Ariel82 said:

Yes it dose, it’s also about tribulation and the end of the world and that’s how the book of Revelation comes in to Matt24.

Ariel82 said:

Are they your words or not.?

yes you did say it. the bit in green above.

When clearly Matt24 is talking about Jesus coming at the end of the world and gathering together his elect.

40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Ariel82 said:

And you can ignore me as much as you like, but I am not going to ignore you and your twisting of scripture and your posts.

Ariel82 said:

Mean spirited?

That’s not mean spirited that’s me loving you it’s called preaching the gospel with all boldness and rebuking before all that others my fear.

John2:15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;

Mean spirited is you putting a stumbling block before the children of God, now that’s mean spirited

The sin lies with you

Matt11:17And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented.

Ariel82 said:

You don’t have the time, energy or patience?
Then you better get it, for that is the fruit of the spirit and the work of the lord.

peterT · Jul 20, 2012

cronjecj said:

What are you doing splashing around in puddles when there are whole oceans to swim in?

You strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

Then just ignore the rest of the chapter about the end of the world and Jesus coming and the angels gathering together his elect from the heavens and the earth

Ones from the heavens and ones from the earth

Matt24:31 gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Matt24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Then just ignore how it’s talking about the end of the world.

3 and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
6: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
37But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

You strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

What’s the matter with you?

you walk like a blind man, is it because you have sinned agents God?

Zephaniah 1:17 And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.

Ariel82 · Jul 20, 2012

1 Corinthians 10:11
Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
Hebrews 9:26
He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

peterT · Jul 20, 2012

Ariel82 said:

You missed a bit.

just ignore how it’s talking about the end of the world and Jesus coming in the clouds and the angels are the reapers at the sound of a trumpet.

3 and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
6: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
37But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

You put a stumbling block before the children of God because of your unbelief saying Matt24 is fulfilled and Jesus came in the clouds and gathered together his elect already.

Matt11:17 And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented.

Ariel82 · Jul 20, 2012

Ariel82 said:

Who Am I - Casting Crowns - YouTube

u make me sad

i will put my faith in my Lord, u may keep ur lies

peterT · Jul 22, 2012

Ariel82 said:

Somewhat backslidden, you have gone from being hot backward to being lukewarm.

I suspect because of sin.

You didn’t want to pay the price, you don’t want to suffer for your faith, or be tested for your faith, you don’t want to go through the great tribulation, you don’t want to suffer as Jesus surfed and the disciples suffered and the prophets suffered and be tried for your faith.

So someone came along and said Matt24 and most of Revelation is fulfilled, and that fitted what you wanted, not to go through tribulation, and not to be tested for your faith, so you can enjoy the fat of your labour and collect you superannuation then go to heaven. And still be a soldier for the lord.

And you defiantly don’t want to go through tribulation and one day Not to be able to buy or sell with the fat of your labour, so you delete Matt24 and most of the book of Revelation and put it in history because that suits you and you life.

But the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

Matt13:22He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

You delete Matt24 and most of the book of Revelation because it interferes with what you want.

The great Tribulation is an offence to you.so you delete it and put in in history.

Matt13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

Ariel82 · Jul 22, 2012

you lie and have no clue of my beliefs.

you can continue with your self righteous rants.

1still_waters · Jul 22, 2012

peterT said:

Somewhat backslidden, you have gone from being hot backward to being lukewarm.

I suspect because of sin.

You didn’t want to pay the price, you don’t want to suffer for your faith, or be tested for your faith, you don’t want to go through the great tribulation, you don’t want to suffer as Jesus surfed and the disciples suffered and the prophets suffered and be tried for your faith.

So someone came along and said Matt24 and most of Revelation is fulfilled, and that fitted what you wanted, not to go through tribulation, and not to be tested for your faith, so you can enjoy the fat of your labour and collect you superannuation then go to heaven. And still be a soldier for the lord.

And you defiantly don’t want to go through tribulation and one day Not to be able to buy or sell with the fat of your labour, so you delete Matt24 and most of the book of Revelation and put it in history because that suits you and you life.

But the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

Matt13:22He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

You delete Matt24 and most of the book of Revelation because it interferes with what you want.

The great Tribulation is an offence to you.so you delete it and put in in history.

Matt13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

Peter does that mean you believe in a post trib rapture?

peterT · Jul 22, 2012

cronjecj said:

More than two generations had passed by 70AD

Thus when Jesus said 34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Jesus was prophesying, in the signs of the times This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

peterT · Jul 22, 2012

Ariel82 said:

You are the one that is lying, for it’s not me that puts Matt24 into history.
It’s not me that makes the word of God to non-effect.
It’s not me that puts a stumbling block before the children of God; it’s you through your fear and lack of faith in God's word.

And yes I do know what you believe on this topic for you have been pretty clear.

Ariel82 said:

And what self-righteous rants?

peterT · Jul 22, 2012

1still_waters said:

What I believe is the word.

3--and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

The reapers are angels.

Jesus comes in the clouds at the end of the world.

At the sound of a trumpet.

Immediately after the tribulation.

And gather together his elect.

I have no need to ask you what you believe I already know

1still_waters · Jul 22, 2012

Hey guys some of you are getting a lil carried away here with the emotions. Please step back and calm down.

1still_waters · Jul 22, 2012

PeterT you seem to agree that some part of Matthew 24 is an answer to the question about signs of when the temple in AD 70 would be taken down. Which parts of Matthew 24 do you think are direct answers to that question?

peterT · Jul 22, 2012

1still_waters said:

Matt10:27What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.

27 --shout from the rooftops. (NIRV)

Off course there are emotions, and we would be a little dead in spirit without them.

did Christ retrun in AD 70? Matthew 24

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