did Christ retrun in AD 70? Matthew 24

[IMINJC]

ARIEL82

YOU SAID: since the kids haven't got back home yet, i'll take a few minutes and answer you.....

LOL! Gotta love the babies.

YOU SAID: these verses sound like Herod's temple which was destroyed in 70 AD to me.....
Matthew 24

24 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”
3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

At this point Jesus was talking to them about Herod's Temple. It was because He knew they were not ready to accept the word of destruction that he had just spoken over the city....check this out...

Matthew 24:1
24 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple.

Luke records more specifically that the disciples were pointing out how beautiful the stones were on the Temple, almost as if to get Jesus to say something favorable about the Temple, because what he had just spoken obviously disturbed them and rightfully so. Jesus didn't comfort them any, he repeated that their beloved Temple was coming down...

“Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”

Now this greatly disturbed the disciples, so much so that they came to him privately and asked a question that Jesus had already made clear to them, so Jesus did not repeat his answer, as if to say to the disciples,"You know perfectly well when these things will happen." That question was...("When will these things happen?") Then to add insult to injury, The disciples asked ("What will be the sign of your coming?")......

You ever wonder why Jesus made the following statement?

Matthew 12:39
“An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.

It is an evil and adulterous thing for a generation to ask for a sign when God has already given that generation a sign to recognize and that generation ignored it.

What the disciples wanted to know concerning the "coming" of Jesus, was "When will you present yourself as our King?" Now the disciples had no clue about the second coming of Jesus because they had not yet accepted his mission of sacrificing himself for the sins of the world...so their question from their perspective did not involve the second coming, but Jesus knowing that he was not going to present himself as King on earth during the disciples generation, began to talk to his disciples of not only that current generation, but future generations as well and he laid out the signs for that chosen generation to recognize and it would indicate when he would present himself in Jerusalem as our King....His second coming.

Do you see?...as far as the "coming" of our Lord the disciples generation was finished...they were given Zechariah 9:9 and they missed it...God was through with them. The only sign that generation had left to look for was the sign of Jonah, which was his resurrection...other than that, No other sign would be given to it.

Two reasons I know this is true.... 1. The disciples asked the resurrected Jesus the exact same question of "When will you present yourself as King?" in Acts 1:6...Only they asked "Will you now present yourself as King?" Jesus restoring the Kingdom and presenting himself as King is the same thing. What was Jesus reply? "None of your business" As I said..you can't have it both ways...if what Jesus said in Mattew 24 was relevant to the disciples generation, He would not have responded in the manner in which he did in Acts 1:7.

2. The abomination mentioned in the Book of Daniel that brought about the destruction of that Temple mentioned in Daniel was committed before the destruction of that Temple. I mean what reason would God have to allow the destruction of a Temple when the abomination occurs after the destruction. That's like sentencing a murderer before the murder is committed. THERE WAS NO ABOMINATION OF THIS SORT PERPETRATED IN 70 AD. (If it was present it) So this prophecy is not fulfilled yet.

 

[becausehedied]

lol. You asked where God said he would do this in 2000 years.

I asked where anyone said God said this would happen in 200 years. I have never heard this said. And your upset because I asked it?


As for God giving them time. Did God give them time? He knew they would not accept , we know this by the FACT the OT says God would destroy jerusalem, And Christ himself made the same statement, He did not say I will destroy if you do not repent, He said this will happen. It had nothing to do with God waiting to see if they would repent.

as for the rest. Those are facts as supported by the OT. So I do not get why you are so upset. How did I twist things. If I misunderstood you, All you had to say it and rephrase the question.

Ok lets try this one more time.

At one point you said Jerusalem would be restored I want verses that apply to the time period in which we now live that proves it will be restored

The reference to 2000 years is this, from the time Jesus said Jerusalem would be destroyed whcih happened in AD 70 till now it has been close to 2000 years give or take.

So give me a Book Chapter and Verse that says that Jerusalem will be restored in the far distant future.

Do you believe that God gives people time to repent?

 

[becausehedied]

ARIEL82

YOU SAID: since the kids haven't got back home yet, i'll take a few minutes and answer you.....

LOL! Gotta love the babies.

YOU SAID: these verses sound like Herod's temple which was destroyed in 70 AD to me.....
Matthew 24

24 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”
3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

At this point Jesus was talking to them about Herod's Temple. It was because He knew they were not ready to accept the word of destruction that he had just spoken over the city....check this out...

Matthew 24:1
24 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple.

Luke records more specifically that the disciples were pointing out how beautiful the stones were on the Temple, almost as if to get Jesus to say something favorable about the Temple, because what he had just spoken obviously disturbed them and rightfully so. Jesus didn't comfort them any, he repeated that their beloved Temple was coming down...

“Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”

Now this greatly disturbed the disciples, so much so that they came to him privately and asked a question that Jesus had already made clear to them, so Jesus did not repeat his answer, as if to say to the disciples,"You know perfectly well when these things will happen." That question was...("When will these things happen?") Then to add insult to injury, The disciples asked ("What will be the sign of your coming?")......

You ever wonder why Jesus made the following statement?

Matthew 12:39
“An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.

It is an evil and adulterous thing for a generation to ask for a sign when God has already given that generation a sign to recognize and that generation ignored it.

What the disciples wanted to know concerning the "coming" of Jesus, was "When will you present yourself as our King?" Now the disciples had no clue about the second coming of Jesus because they had not yet accepted his mission of sacrificing himself for the sins of the world...so their question from their perspective did not involve the second coming, but Jesus knowing that he was not going to present himself as King on earth during the disciples generation, began to talk to his disciples of not only that current generation, but future generations as well and he laid out the signs for that chosen generation to recognize and it would indicate when he would present himself in Jerusalem as our King....His second coming.

Do you see?...as far as the "coming" of our Lord the disciples generation was finished...they were given Zechariah 9:9 and they missed it...God was through with them. The only sign that generation had left to look for was the sign of Jonah, which was his resurrection...other than that, No other sign would be given to it.

Two reasons I know this is true.... 1. The disciples asked the resurrected Jesus the exact same question of "When will you present yourself as King?" in Acts 1:6...Only they asked "Will you now present yourself as King?" Jesus restoring the Kingdom and presenting himself as King is the same thing. What was Jesus reply? "None of your business" As I said..you can't have it both ways...if what Jesus said in Mattew 24 was relevant to the disciples generation, He would not have responded in the manner in which he did in Acts 1:7.

2. The abomination mentioned in the Book of Daniel that brought about the destruction of that Temple mentioned in Daniel was committed before the destruction of that Temple. I mean what reason would God have to allow the destruction of a Temple when the abomination occurs after the destruction. That's like sentencing a murderer before the murder is committed. THERE WAS NO ABOMINATION OF THIS SORT PERPETRATED IN 70 AD. (If it was present it) So this prophecy is not fulfilled yet.

The resson they asked the question about now restoring the kingdom to Israel and implying being their king was because they WERE LOOKING FOR AN EARTHLY KINGDOM...

Notice the words fo Christ
Joh_18:36 Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here."

The diciples did not fully understand this until the day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit came upon them and they were guided into ALL truth.

Joh 16:13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

Joh 15:26 "But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.
Joh 15:27 And you also will bear witness, because you have been with Me from the beginning.

 

[IMINJC]

ARIEL82

YOU SAID: ok lets get this straight. I believe the HE is not referring to a foreigner breaking a treaty with God's people but Christ CONFIRMING the covenant with His people and ending sacrifice by DYING on the Cross and being a better sacrifice and that is why sacrifices cease.
just clear that out so you know what MY doctrine and beliefs actually are.

I know your beliefs concerning eschatology very well, and so far based on your posting you are a Preterist just as I thought and you just quoted their most dangerous belief of all.
I have been waiting for one of you to post this belief on this forum. This belief is dangerous because it is blasephemous. It's amazing to me the lengths that people will go rather than admit that their opinion of scripture is wrong. You believe the lie that you posted above because you have a time based theology as I said before. You have been convinced that all these prophecies were fulfilled within a 40 year generational time frame. In order for that to be true you are forced to accept the lie that our Lord Jesus was this evil character described in the Book of Daniel that committed abominations until God personally destroyed him himself. The Word says that "My sheep know my voice." Then why is it we can't recognize him in scripture?

Anyway this topic deserves it's own thread and I'm going to start it. See you there.

 

[IMINJC]

becausehedied

I love that name...lol


YOU SAID: The resson they asked the question about now restoring the kingdom to Israel and implying being their king was because they WERE LOOKING FOR AN EARTHLY KINGDOM...

That is correct, and this is what they were implying the first time that they asked this question as well. When Jesus fulfilled Zechariah 9:9 by riding into Jerusalem they rejected him as their earthly King. When Jesus answered the disciples question in Matthew 24, he answered it according to him being an earthly King not a heavenly King.

The fact still remains, if what Jesus said in Matthew 24 was relevant to the disciples generation it would have been relevant in Acts 1:7.

 

[cronjecj]

Secondly, Matthew 24:34.... 34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be
fulfilled

Jesus is referring to an unknown future generation that sees these signs come to pass in their life time. "This Generation" "What Generation?"..."The Generation that sees these events come to pass."

no, if it was so what you suggest then
He would have said "that" generation.

but He didn't.

 

[cronjecj]

YOU SAID: The resson they asked the question about now restoring the kingdom to Israel and implying being their king was because they WERE LOOKING FOR AN EARTHLY KINGDOM...

That is correct, and this is what they were implying the first time that they asked this question as well. When Jesus fulfilled Zechariah 9:9 by riding into Jerusalem they rejected him as their earthly King. When Jesus answered the disciples question in Matthew 24, he answered it according to him being an earthly King not a heavenly King.

The fact still remains, if what Jesus said in Matthew 24 was relevant to the disciples generation it would have been relevant in Acts 1:7.

no, Jesus kingdom is not of this world.

becausehedied

I love that name...lol

and "BECAUSEHELIVES" is a better name.

 

[edward99]

And here we go again. do you even read what you post?
I asked.

When did the time of the GENTILES come to an end. And this was your answer? I did not ask about jews or their time, so again we go off on tangents and you do not answer the question correctly, then get upset when I confront you on it, and repeat the same wrong answer.

No. You are playing games now. YOU ASKED:

Dude, You keep digging yourself further and further into a hole.

I asked when the time of the end of Gentile trampling and devastation of jerusalem would end.

......stuff which showed the time of the jews in jerusalem had come to an end.

Oh. ya....

which showed the time of the jews in jerusalem had come to an end.

the time of the jews in jerusalem had come to an end.

jerusalem had come to an end.

end.

When did the trampling of Jerusalem come to an end:

The Siege of Jerusalem in the year 70

Is jerusalem a city of God today? No

John 4:21
Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, an hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father.

Gal 4:26
But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother.

Heb 12:22
But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly,

Rev 3:12
Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name.

is jerusalem a city who is inhabited by the people who were given the city by God today? No
Is Jerusalem still in gentile hands today? Yes.

True on both counts. Truer than you know.

Who has control of jerusalem today? it is split, Catholic Christian, Christian Christian, Muslim, and jew. This it is still being trampled as we speak

So what. Thats not what Daniel 9 is about.
Nor is it what Jesus was talking about.

You might want to look at Rev 20:8 though.

The correct answer to the question, When did the trampling of Jerusalem come to an end would be, It has not yet happened.

For Futurist-Dispensationalists maybe.

......stuff which showed the time of the jews in jerusalem had come to an end.

Oh. ya....

which showed the time of the jews in jerusalem had come to an end.

the time of the jews in jerusalem had come to an end.

jerusalem had come to an end.

end.

When did the trampling of Jerusalem come to an end:

The Siege of Jerusalem in the year 70

.
Nothing else you posted had anythingn to do with the question I posed. This was not worth looking at. Can you stick to topic please?

I am.

 

[IMINJC]

cronjecj


YOU SAID: no, if it was so what you suggest then
He would have said "that" generation.
but He didn't.

"This" generation still fits in context of what Jesus is saying about what is to happen before he presents himself as King on earth.

 

[cronjecj]

cronjecj


YOU SAID: no, if it was so what you suggest then
He would have said "that" generation.
but He didn't.

"This" generation still fits in context of what Jesus is saying about what is to happen before he presents himself as King on earth.

no it doesn't, He loudly and clearly said: "this" (2000 years ago)
after prophesying His coming and of judgement. no confusion.

IF it was so as you and MANY other suggest HE would have
said "THAT" generation.. but He didn't, so no confusion there.

 

[becausehedied]

becausehedied

I love that name...lol


YOU SAID: The resson they asked the question about now restoring the kingdom to Israel and implying being their king was because they WERE LOOKING FOR AN EARTHLY KINGDOM...

That is correct, and this is what they were implying the first time that they asked this question as well. When Jesus fulfilled Zechariah 9:9 by riding into Jerusalem they rejected him as their earthly King. When Jesus answered the disciples question in Matthew 24, he answered it according to him being an earthly King not a heavenly King.

The fact still remains, if what Jesus said in Matthew 24 was relevant to the disciples generation it would have been relevant in Acts 1:7.

When was the first time they asked that question???

However, Christ kingdom is not of this world and it will not ever be...

Do you believe the kiingdom is now in existence?

 

[IMINJC]

cronjecj

You Said: no, Jesus kingdom is not of this world.


Jesus also said for us to be in the world but not of it. When we are not of this world we are of his Kingdom. When Jesus returns to earth he will establish his kingdom on earth. The fact that his Kingdom is not of this world does not mean that he will not establish his Kingdom in this world in the not so distant future.

 

[becausehedied]

cronjecj

You Said: no, Jesus kingdom is not of this world.


Jesus also said for us to be in the world but not of it. When we are not of this world we are of his Kingdom. When Jesus returns to earth he will establish his kingdom on earth. The fact that his Kingdom is not of this world does not mean that he will not establish his Kingdom in this world in the not so distant future.

If it will be of this world why did he not just set it up then, instead of making everyone wait?

 

[IMINJC]

becausehedied


YOU SAID: However, Christ kingdom is not of this world and it will not ever be...

Jesus will one day return to this world and establish his Kingdom on earth. Now....the Kingdom of Christ will never be "OF" this world, but it will be in this world.

 

[cronjecj]

cronjecj

You Said: no, Jesus kingdom is not of this world.


Jesus also said for us to be in the world but not of it. When we are not of this world we are of his Kingdom. When Jesus returns to earth he will establish his kingdom on earth. The fact that his Kingdom is not of this world does not mean that he will not establish his Kingdom in this world in the not so distant future.

show one scripture that says Jesus
will set up an earthly kingdom.

you can't because it ain't there.

the NEW JERUSALEM is God's temple,
and where is God's temple \ kingdom?

IN HIS BRIDE (we, the saints are His temple)

 

[becausehedied]

becausehedied

I love that name...lol


YOU SAID: The resson they asked the question about now restoring the kingdom to Israel and implying being their king was because they WERE LOOKING FOR AN EARTHLY KINGDOM...

That is correct, and this is what they were implying the first time that they asked this question as well. When Jesus fulfilled Zechariah 9:9 by riding into Jerusalem they rejected him as their earthly King. When Jesus answered the disciples question in Matthew 24, he answered it according to him being an earthly King not a heavenly King.

The fact still remains, if what Jesus said in Matthew 24 was relevant to the disciples generation it would have been relevant in Acts 1:7.

This is for your consideration on this idea, also it would be helpful if you would give some verse pertaining to this establishment of an earthly kingdom.

Christ kingdom was set up during the time of the apostles or else there are some 2000 plus year old people walking around some where.

It is interesting that prior to Acts 2, the kingdom is spoken of in future tense, After Acts 2 the kingdom is spoken of as present tense.
Mar 9:1 And He said to them, "Assuredly, I say to you that there are some standing here who will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God present with power." (NKJV)

Mar 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power. (KJV)

Mat_3:2 and saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!"

Mat_4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

Mat_10:7 And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'

Act_1:3 to whom He also presented Himself alive after His suffering by many infallible proofs, being seen by them during forty days and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God.
Act_1:6 Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, "Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?"

They where looing for an earthly kingdom like many to day.

Chrsit said his kingdom was not of this world. Thus, it is not a physical flesh and blood kingdom but a spiritual kingdom. Of which all who are in the church are a part of spiritually.

Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here."

Kingdom and church are used interchangebly in Matthew 16:18-19

Mat 16:18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

Why would Christ tell Peter He would build His church, and in the same breath telll Peter he would give him the keys to something else. Unless the kingdom and the church are one and the same.

Peter used the keys given to him in Acts 2, when he stood and preached to all those present in Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost. This is why after that event the kingdom is spoken of in present tense.

The Following show verse that speak of the kingdom in present tense, this is not exhuastive.

Act_8:12 But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

Now it is being preached in the present tense.

Col 1:13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed (translated) us into the kingdom of the Son of His love,

Hard to be put into something that does not exist yet.


Col_4:11 and Jesus who is called Justus. These are my only fellow workers for the kingdom of God who are of the circumcision; they have proved to be a comfort to me.

Hard to be fellow workers for something if it does not exist yet.


Rev. 1:9 I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

1Co_15:24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.

How could Chrsit deliver something to the Father that does not exist yet?

 

[IMINJC]

becausehedied


YOU SAID: If it will be of this world why did he not just set it up then, instead of making everyone wait?

Great Question! I don't know....You will have to ask him that when you see him. (Smile)

 

[cronjecj]

becausehedied


YOU SAID: However, Christ kingdom is not of this world and it will not ever be...

Jesus will one day return to this world and establish his Kingdom on earth. Now....the Kingdom of Christ will never be "OF" this world, but it will be in this world.

it will NEVER EVER be of this world
because His kingdom is already
established right now IN HIS BRIDE.

 

[becausehedied]

becausehedied


YOU SAID: However, Christ kingdom is not of this world and it will not ever be...

Jesus will one day return to this world and establish his Kingdom on earth. Now....the Kingdom of Christ will never be "OF" this world, but it will be in this world.

No, you are relying to heavly on the word of and in.

Chrsit was clear in John 18:36 if His kingdom was to be set up in tihis world or of this world his servants would have fought so he would not have been killled.

 

[becausehedied]

becausehedied


YOU SAID: If it will be of this world why did he not just set it up then, instead of making everyone wait?

Great Question! I don't know....You will have to ask him that when you see him. (Smile)

Do you not use the quote button on the bottom right so you can only anwser questions you like, juts wondering.