Once saved Always Saved! Does the New Testament support this??

[A-Omega]

they know they are waiting for Him. They are asking others for oil and they are calling Him by name at the door. These aren't random women who know not who they call. They are quite familiar with the groom, in fact they know He is coming and they know they were selected to be ready. These do not represent non believers but those (once called believers) who chose the worldly life over their righteous habitation. They said to themselves "the Lord comes at a further time, I can repent later, for now I will live my life as I see fit and eventually I will choose God's ways over my own."

(the highlighted portion is not in the text and is just opinion being read into the text).

How can you be engaged to someone who does not know you? I mean I had some jr. high school celebrity crushes that may qualify but aside from that, it's not possible.

They call Him Lord, but He doesn't know who they are. That is the critical point. It's the groom who is the key figure in the story. It is The Groom who is the key figure in the Bible.

Similarly, the people who say "Lord, Lord" and performed miracles in the name of Jesus, obviously know who He is. They clearly think they are operating in His name. Yet Jesus NEVER knew them, meaning they were NEVER saved. This is pretty clear from a plain reading of the text. The language in both passages run parallel to each other as they are emphasizing the same point.

 

[Red33]

even Satan and his demons believe in Jesus of the bible.

They believe that He exist because God created them as well as all creation and they can't deny that, but that is the extent as to what they believe other then the eternal torment that waits for them.

 

[Deadtosin]

if a believer commits suicide does he go to heaven?

 

[lavzsmiles]

I believe the New Testament teaches that one who is TRULY born of God is sealed by the Holy Spirit and is sealed unto the day of Redemption (Resurrection) by the power of God through grace (unmerited favor). However, in our day of "easy beliefism" that influences people to believe if they walk an aisle, say a particular prayer, or go through baptismal waters, that they are saved, I believe a whole lot of people who think they're o.k. with God have not actually received His grace through repentance and faith. In light of the N.T. teaching that salvation is completely by God's grace through faith which is empowered by the Holy Spirit, I believe that TRUE FAITH in CHRIST ALONE as LORD and SAVIOR is the moment when the Holy Spirit seals the believer (Christian, saint, etc.) unto the "Day of Redemption."

John 3:14-18; John 6:37-40; John 10:27-30; Romans 8:1-39 (28-39); Ephesians 1:1-14 (13,14); I Peter 1:1-3

 

[A-Omega]

if a believer commits suicide does he go to heaven?

Yes. See Samson.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Lets say I go out and buy a brand new car and I decide I'm going to give it to you as a gift free of charge, you wont have to give me a single dime for it. You don't have do anything to earn it. However, I can still add a condition to that gift and tell you that if you make a habit of getting drunk and behind the wheel of that car, you are gonna forfeit that car back to me.

What you have just done is give me a downpayment for a reward that you want me to pay for. My payment is not to get drunk, and even more, not to get behind the wheel of the car. It is not a gift. Any gift is given unconditionally. When you give a gift. the thing you give no longer is yours, but belongs to the one you gave it to. Thus you have absolutely NO RIGHT TO TAKE IT BACK. if you take it back. Your trying to bribe me to buy my sobriety. People do this all the time, it usually comes back to bite them, because it does not work.

1. It was never a gift.
2. You have stolen something that was rightfully mine
3. You would be deemed a liar. and a thief.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Paul said....Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Other people like to say....What then? shall we clean up our act? Why? we are not under law, but under grace, so God forbid.

A licentious person, who is saved might say this. A true believer in the work of Christ who has repented would never say this.

Try to learn who you are talking to and what they believe before you go spouting off at the mouth. Your saying I and those like me say things we do not believe!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What I do not like about OSAS is how many who adhere to this live like the devil..go to bars...do not have any standard of holiness..collosians 3:7..in which you once walked..if we once walked im.sin..this means we forsook that for something better..that is not works bases salvation..thats truly understandimg grace..grace is not permission to live like the devil..hebrews 12:14..follow peace w men&holiness..without which no man will see the Lord..letd not use what some call 'irrefutable dictrone" as an excuse to hold onto hypocrisy

Yes many do. But that does not mean

1. They are saved
2. That ALL who believe in osas do this.

A legalist would condemn them. A faith believer in OSAS would try to heal them. That is what separates us,

trying to discredit something because a few take advantage of it in a dangerous way is a dangerous thing to do.

What I have about legalism is many will go to hell because they have done all these works in Jesus name. And jesus will say, depart from me, for I NEVER KNEW YOU

 

[eternally-gratefull]

if a believer commits suicide does he go to heaven?

Is suicide a sin? (even I agree it is sin)

What did jesus say, ALL MATTER OF SIN AND BLASPHEMY SHALL BE FORGIVEN ALL MEN, But BLASPHEMY OF THE HS SHALL NOT BE FORGIVEN, NOW OR EVER.

Now ask yourself this. Is suicide blasphemy against the HS? If it is, then the answer would be no. If it is not. hen Jesus said he paid for the penalty of suicide also

 

[Deadtosin]

Yes. See Samson.

Some consider Sampson's act a suicide but Sampson's goal was to kill the Philistines not himself.

 

[Closemyeyes2cU]

A licentious person, who is saved might say this. A true believer in the work of Christ who has repented would never say this.

Try to learn who you are talking to and what they believe before you go spouting off at the mouth. Your saying I and those like me say things we do not believe!

First off I didnt quote you when I said that, so I wasn't addressing you particularly. Second of all, it is you that has made assumptions about what people believe. You think if someone doesn't hold to OSAS then they believe they have to work their way into heaven. I just simply believe that you cant live like a godless heathen and expect to come waltzing through the pearly gates.

 

[Deadtosin]

2 Peter



16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.


you all make very valid points. Help me with this one. What is Peter talking about?

 

[Closemyeyes2cU]

I said I was gonna stay out of this thread once before but this time I mean it. I will exit with this.


Eze 18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Eze 18:22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
Eze 18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
Eze 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
Eze 18:25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
Eze 18:26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
Eze 18:27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
Eze 18:28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

 

[Deadtosin]

Revelation 3

King James Version (KJV)

3 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.




what do you make of this?

 

[sheep7]

According to Hebrews 10:26 Jesus' sacrifice does not pay for wilful sin.
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth NO more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Since Jesus' sacrifice is how we get forgiveness, if His sacrifice does not pay for wilful sins, then we cannot ask forgiveness.
So if Jesus' sacrifice is not going to pay for wilful sins, who would have to pay for those sins? The answer: We would
And verse 27 explains what we have to look forward to......eternal death or the second death that Rev 21:8 speaks of.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Now you may be saying, "well, if that is the case, then we all are doomed since everyone sins wilfully". That is what I thought when God showed me Hebs 10:26 for the first time. But according to Matthew.....Mat 7:13-14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: (14) Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. So God has provided a way even though you may not be able to see it right now when you read Hebs 10:26. But since God cannot lie, Hebs must be correct. Because the first time God showed me Hebs 10:26 it looked impossible to me too.
I would love to talk about this with anyone that would like to. You can send me a message at [email protected] to let me know. I also get on paltalk under the id "sheeponajourney". If you are on paltalk, you can look up my id and add me as a pal and then you can see when I am online. Hoping to hear from someone!

 

[A-Omega]

Some consider Sampson's act a suicide but Sampson's goal was to kill the Philistines not himself.

I actually think you make really good arguments, even though I disagree, but this one point doesn't really make sense. Samson obviously and knowingly committed suicide. He did kill the Philistines and wanted to kill them, but it was via what we call a "suicide mission."

 

[A-Omega]

Here's the other problem with the idea that you can lose your salvation. What is the threshhold? How much sin moves you from a "Christian who makes mistakes" (in other words a sinner) to a "Christian who ha now lost their salvation"? 10 sins? 200? 4,000? It just ends becoming arbitrary and random.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

First off I didnt quote you when I said that, so I wasn't addressing you particularly. Second of all, it is you that has made assumptions about what people believe. You think if someone doesn't hold to OSAS then they believe they have to work their way into heaven. I just simply believe that you cant live like a godless heathen and expect to come waltzing through the pearly gates.

so. lets get this straight.

1. You believe the heathen who claims to be a christian has never been saved.
2. You believe someone can be saved, and lose it because of sin?

if the answer to number 1 is correct. You are on your way to believe OSAS is true.

if the answer to number 2 is correct, You believe we are saved by our works, and fulfilling the law. Because remember, As Paul said, before the law was, I did not know what sin was, then the law came and by it I died, So if sin can cause us to lose salvation, then we are under law and not under grace. because we would not know what sin was if not for the law.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I actually think you make really good arguments, even though I disagree, but this one point doesn't really make sense. Samson obviously and knowingly committed suicide. He did kill the Philistines and wanted to kill them, but it was via what we call a "suicide mission."

I agree with you,

Samson committed suicide.

1. He was in the position he was in because of sin
2. He did this to make up for the sin he committed (not to be re saved, but to make up, because if he did not sin in the first place. he would not be in that position.

Suicide is suicide is suicide, there are no degrees. Like there are no degrees of sin in Gods eyes. correct?

 

[newcovenantchristian]

I agree with you,

Samson committed suicide.

1. He was in the position he was in because of sin
2. He did this to make up for the sin he committed (not to be re saved, but to make up, because if he did not sin in the first place. he would not be in that position.

Suicide is suicide is suicide, there are no degrees. Like there are no degrees of sin in Gods eyes. correct?

May I ask? If there are no degrees of sin in God's eyes(God does not view one sin as worse than another) Why was David punished severely for sleeping with Bathsheeba and subsequently being responsible for the death of her husband? I am sure you would agree David was not perfect/he sinned before this event. Why did God not punish David for his previous sins to the extent he did for sleeping with a married woman and causing the death of her husband if there is no degrees of sin in God's eyes?