Once saved Always Saved! Does the New Testament support this??

[meecha]

According to Hebrews 10:26 Jesus' sacrifice does not pay for wilful sin.

Sheep....I will try to help you out here if I can. Bear in mind who the "Hebrews " are. Having established the context of the letter you will find that the "wilful sin" is not some sin in general but the specific sin that the writer is addressing. The Hebrew Christians are tempted back to the Temple sacrifices. The writer is warning them that the temple is doomed and to partake in it's sacrifices is to bring on certain judgement.ie

But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries

the writer is reminding the Hebrews of Jesus' instructions to flee Jerusalem. Don't return to the Judaism of the Pharisees...it is doomed and the end is soon. Hebrews is dated around 67AD. HOpe that helps. When you put your hope in Jesus Christ alone you can not be lost.

 

[Deadtosin]

The Lord called upon Sampson to challenge the Philistines who held dominion over Israel, Later God granted strength to Sampson to perform one last act of war which ultimately freed Israel killing more Philistines than he had ever slain in his life (over 3,000). I would consider that more of an act of war than a flat out suicide.




I consider a big difference in someone taking their own life for the purpose of taking their own life vs. losing their life for what they consider a greater purpose, like a soldier jumping on a grenade to save his brothers. Or in this case finishing what God called him to do.




(for the record I am not saying that Sampson did not commit suicide, I am saying that there are different opinions to this story and both are valid. One only needs to google the subject to see the different points of view.

 

[angelofmercy]

Suicide of ANY kind ABSOLUTELEY CANNOT pry that man from the hand of God Almighty. Who knows the truth of God and can willfully sin?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

May I ask? If there are no degrees of sin in God's eyes(God does not view one sin as worse than another) Why was David punished severely for sleeping with Bathsheeba and subsequently being responsible for the death of her husband? I am sure you would agree David was not perfect/he sinned before this event. Why did God not punish David for his previous sins to the extent he did for sleeping with a married woman and causing the death of her husband if there is no degrees of sin in God's eyes?

See here is where people get confused.

When it comes to eternal condemnation. God sees all sin as equal. As James said, if we break even the LEAST of the commands, we have been found guilty as if we broke the whole law.

As for laws of society, As king. God knows some sin causes more damage than others, so he imposed harder TEMPORAL punishment for certain sins.

The penalty of sin (eternal) is death. That is for ALL SIN. As a liar, would recieve the penalty of death. As a murderer, I would be given the penalty of death (spiritual terms here) Both are condemned as if they committed the same sin.

 

[Crossfire]

Suicide of ANY kind ABSOLUTELEY CANNOT pry that man from the hand of God Almighty. Who knows the truth of God and can willfully sin?

One who truly understands his or her identity in Christ and has placed their complete trust in Him would never commit scuicide in the first place. As a son or daughter of the living God, you have the divine nature now residing in you in the person of the Holy Spirit. If one is truly surrendered to and be led by the Spirit, they would never throw something away that Jesus paid the ultimate price to save.

 

[Crossfire]

I agree with you,

Samson committed suicide.

1. He was in the position he was in because of sin
2. He did this to make up for the sin he committed (not to be re saved, but to make up, because if he did not sin in the first place. he would not be in that position.

Suicide is suicide is suicide, there are no degrees. Like there are no degrees of sin in Gods eyes. correct?

Samson did not commit scuicide but rather, he fulfilled his God given destiny as Judge to free his people from the tyranny of that day. He did not take his life selfishly out of self pity but rather, he sacrificed his life selflessly to deliver his people. Samson understood that with blinded eyes he could never fulfill his destiny on the battlefield so when the opportunity arose to fulfill His purpose, he prayed and God granted his request. Samson willingly laid down his life for his people just as Christ laid down his life for the Church. By no means whatsoever was Samson's death a scuicide but rather, a christo centric foreshadow of the Messiah to come.

I find it rather disturbing that many here are willing to twist and manipulate scripture in order to protect their pet doctrines.

 

[angelofmercy]

One who truly understands his or her identity in Christ and has placed their complete trust in Him would never commit scuicide in the first place. As a son or daughter of the living God, you have the divine nature now residing in you in the person of the Holy Spirit. If one is truly surrendered to and be led by the Spirit, they would never throw something away that Jesus paid the ultimate price to save.

What man can take a life, even his own unless it is given him from above?

 

[Crossfire]

What man can take a life, even his own unless it is given him from above?

A verse quoted out of context can say almost anything....

 

[A-Omega]

The Lord called upon Sampson to challenge the Philistines who held dominion over Israel, Later God granted strength to Sampson to perform one last act of war which ultimately freed Israel killing more Philistines than he had ever slain in his life (over 3,000). I would consider that more of an act of war than a flat out suicide.




I consider a big difference in someone taking their own life for the purpose of taking their own life vs. losing their life for what they consider a greater purpose, like a soldier jumping on a grenade to save his brothers. Or in this case finishing what God called him to do.




(for the record I am not saying that Sampson did not commit suicide, I am saying that there are different opinions to this story and both are valid. One only needs to google the subject to see the different points of view.

You are merely expressing opinion. By any objective measure or definition, we know the facts: Samson killed himself. He purposefully, knowingly and willingly took his own life. There is no other "valid" way of interpreting this. There is no way to morph scripture to change this. Can we not just accept plain meaning of the text and humble ourselves to God's ways and order? Is it that important to "win" a message board argument that now we're going to try and say Samson didn't really kill himself just to try and substantiate a point that obviously has no Biblical support?

It doesn't matter if Samson killed a million people in the process. He still took his own life. And he was a believer in the Lord God Almighty. Praise Jesus for Samson's amazing testimony! I look forward to meeting him in Heaven as we both praise our Savior!

 

[chesser]

i doubt OSAS because that would make you saved just for being born to christian parents, i belive that if one born to christian arents decides to become hindu, they are no longer saved, of course i have no say in the matter, just my belifs though.

 

[Grandpa]

I disagree. Paul was using a race as an example and we all know that in a race the only thing that matters is how you finish.

Eze 33:18 When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby.
Eze 33:19 But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby.

Hebrews 13:5-8
5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.
7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.
8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

The Lord Jesus Christ has said He will never leave us nor forsake us. Who is the Author and Finisher of our Salvation? Not you. The Lord Jesus Christ is. This means that it is the Lords job to save us and keep us saved.

He tells us that no man can take us from His hand. Its called blessed assurance. Its called ETERNAL salvation. Its not called temporary, works based salvation.

People who are working to stay saved, do they have faith in the Lord Jesus Christs finished work on the Cross or not? Obviously not if they think they must add to what the Lord has already done in order to be saved. It is the faith in Jesus Christ and His work that saves us.

 

[starfield]

A heart that does not produce fruit of righteousness is dead (separated from God) and needs regeneration.

God wants us to have assurance of salvation and that nothing can take us out of His hands, but we must also be watchful, prayerful, and living in active faith and obedience towards Him.

Apostle Paul wouldn't tell us to be careful if there was no possibility of falling. 2 Peter 1:10 "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:". Even Jesus said that every branch that does not bear fruit will be cut off (John 15:2).

Ezekiel 18:24 "But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die" (it is possible for a righteous person to turn away).

There are people in the bible that never knew the way of salvation. There are also some who once knew that way but fell because they did not take heed but got captured by the world. Luke 21:34 "And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares".

1 Tim 4:1 "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;" (people that were once saved will be departing from the faith).

How do you stay in the faith? Watch and pray: Matt 24:41 "Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak". Putting on the whole armor of God: 2 Cor 10:4 "For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;"

 

[Deadtosin]

You are merely expressing opinion. By any objective measure or definition, we know the facts: Samson killed himself. He purposefully, knowingly and willingly took his own life. There is no other "valid" way of interpreting this. There is no way to morph scripture to change this. Can we not just accept plain meaning of the text and humble ourselves to God's ways and order? Is it that important to "win" a message board argument that now we're going to try and say Samson didn't really kill himself just to try and substantiate a point that obviously has no Biblical support?

It doesn't matter if Samson killed a million people in the process. He still took his own life. And he was a believer in the Lord God Almighty. Praise Jesus for Samson's amazing testimony! I look forward to meeting him in Heaven as we both praise our Savior!

my OPINION isn't about winning an argument. There are many facets to different things. You can kill a person and not be a murderer, you can take something that doesn't belong to you and not be a thief. It's not what you do, it's why you do it. It's about principalities. If Sampson's goal was to kill himself it was suicide, if his goal was to sacrifice his own life for the sake of Gods mission I do not consider it as such (and my using words like opinion and consider is what anyone should say when debating such things.) because I am giving room to what others believe.

 

[Deadtosin]

Also, A-Omega after further research I am coming to the conclusion that maybe suicide doesn't land you in hell but at this point we are discussing Sampson's death, and suicide just isn't how it strikes me (again leaving room for others beliefs and opinions)

 

[A-Omega]

my OPINION isn't about winning an argument. There are many facets to different things. You can kill a person and not be a murderer, you can take something that doesn't belong to you and not be a thief. It's not what you do, it's why you do it. It's about principalities. If Sampson's goal was to kill himself it was suicide, if his goal was to sacrifice his own life for the sake of Gods mission I do not consider it as such (and my using words like opinion and consider is what anyone should say when debating such things.) because I am giving room to what others believe.

Murder is a matter of innocence or guilt.

Of course you can take things that do not belong to you and not be a thief. If you have consent. I don't see that as analogous.

Suicide is not an issue or morality. It is an action. Just as a homicide could be murder. Or could be self-defense. But it is still a homicide. There's no parsing here. Suicide is intentionally taking your own life. Samson did an action knowing it would kill him.

And Samson said, Let me die with the Philistines. And he bowed himself with all his might; and the house fell upon the lords, and upon all the people that were therein. So the dead which he slew at his death were more than they which he slew in his life.

He wanted to commit suicide. I agree that he absolutely was trying to kill the Philistines. That was the motivation. But he did it, knowing full well that he would kill himself in the process. It's called a suicide mission. It's no different than a kamikaze.

 

[Crossfire]

You are merely expressing opinion. By any objective measure or definition, we know the facts: Samson killed himself. He purposefully, knowingly and willingly took his own life. There is no other "valid" way of interpreting this. There is no way to morph scripture to change this. Can we not just accept plain meaning of the text and humble ourselves to God's ways and order? Is it that important to "win" a message board argument that now we're going to try and say Samson didn't really kill himself just to try and substantiate a point that obviously has no Biblical support?

It doesn't matter if Samson killed a million people in the process. He still took his own life. And he was a believer in the Lord God Almighty. Praise Jesus for Samson's amazing testimony! I look forward to meeting him in Heaven as we both praise our Savior!

Again, Samson did not commit suicide which is an act of self centeredness. Rather He willingly and selflessly laid down his life to fulfill his God given purpose just as Christ laid down His life for you and me. There is a world of difference between laying down one's life to save / deliver others and committing suicide.

 

[newcovenantchristian]

See here is where people get confused.

When it comes to eternal condemnation. God sees all sin as equal. As James said, if we break even the LEAST of the commands, we have been found guilty as if we broke the whole law.

As for laws of society, As king. God knows some sin causes more damage than others, so he imposed harder TEMPORAL punishment for certain sins.

The penalty of sin (eternal) is death. That is for ALL SIN. As a liar, would recieve the penalty of death. As a murderer, I would be given the penalty of death (spiritual terms here) Both are condemned as if they committed the same sin.

The Bible speaks of 'if you break one law you have broken them all' to show the futility of trying to be good enough for Heaven according to law keeping, but although theologically it seems correct to many to say God sees all sin as equal, it is not reflected in scripture, as Paul plainly states, when writing to Christians:

The acts of the sinful nature are obvious, sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery, idolatry, and witchcraft, hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, and envy; drunkeness, orgies and the like. I warn you as I did before that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of Heaven
Gal5:19-21

Paul was warning believers that such behaviour would not allow them to inherit eternal life, and yet Paul did not believe a person had to be 'perfect' in the flesh to be a Christian
Spurgeon also in his well known book on grace explained that we all have sins to mourn over, but gave a list of four of five sins(can't remember which ones) that if not dealt with in the Christian life would mean a person could not inherit eternal life.

I have never met any Christian in any church who profesess to be perfect according to the flesh, so they know they sin, but at the same time I have never known any Christian who on that basis would accept as saved a person who committed mutliple murders once saved and wanted to be a member of their church. So in reality I have met no Christian who would consider all sin as equal, and I would say that is Biblical.

 

[Closemyeyes2cU]

The Bible speaks of 'if you break one law you have broken them all' to show the futility of trying to be good enough for Heaven according to law keeping, but although theologically it seems correct to many to say God sees all sin as equal, it is not reflected in scripture, as Paul plainly states, when writing to Christians:

The acts of the sinful nature are obvious, sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery, idolatry, and witchcraft, hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, and envy; drunkeness, orgies and the like. I warn you as I did before that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of Heaven
Gal5:19-21

Paul was warning believers that such behaviour would not allow them to inherit eternal life, and yet Paul did not believe a person had to be 'perfect' in the flesh to be a Christian
Spurgeon also in his well known book on grace explained that we all have sins to mourn over, but gave a list of four of five sins(can't remember which ones) that if not dealt with in the Christian life would mean a person could not inherit eternal life.

I have never met any Christian in any church who profesess to be perfect according to the flesh, so they know they sin, but at the same time I have never known any Christian who on that basis would accept as saved a person who committed mutliple murders once saved and wanted to be a member of their church. So in reality I have met no Christian who would consider all sin as equal, and I would say that is Biblical.

Joh 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Once saved Always Saved! Does the New Testament support this??

Yes the New Testament does support once saved always saved, also known as Eternal Security.

Salvation cannot be lost. That is a Christian can never lose his or her salvation. Now a Christian can lose many other things. Like their joy, their testimony, their character, their integrity, their health, their money, their rewards, and their millennial inheritance. But they can never lose their salvation since a Christian is sealed with the Holy Spirit in this dispensation known as the Church Age. Now remember, the Bible has to be divided in its proper dispensations.

Here are some Scriptures that support Eternal Security:

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:35-39



My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one. - John 10:27-30

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, - Ephesians 1:13

And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. - Ephesians 4:30

 

[starfield]

Salvation cannot be lost. That is a Christian can never lose his or her salvation. Now a Christian can lose many other things. Like their joy, their testimony, their character, their integrity, their health, their money, their rewards, and their millennial inheritance. But they can never lose their salvation since a Christian is sealed with the Holy Spirit in this dispensation known as the Church Age.

But your millennial inheritance is granted based on salvation. If you lose that heavenly inheritance but are still saved, then what's the point of that salvation?