When are contraceptives allowed?

[Nautilus]

When it comes to an unborn child the bible looks at them as human. I do not care the circumstance of the pregnancy. To kill an unborn baby is murder. Whether it is rape, incest or whatever. Abortion is never ok, and using situations to excuse it shows nothing more than selfishness, hate, and no regard for human life.
"I dont like how I got pregnant. So I am just gonna kill it." Thats what it sounds like to me.

I see lots of people say that an unborn child counts as living...yet no proof about this outside of emotion. Since biblically life is always associated with breath, something has to be breathe in the breath of life. Meaning life doesn't begin until birth.
Genesis 2:7 "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being." The first human life did not begin with the first two particles of dust that God assembled. It didn't even begin when all of the particles of dust were assembled. It began with the first breath.

This is far from the only passage that suggests that life begins with the first breath rather than conception:

-Job 33:4 "The Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life."

-Ezekiel 37:5 "This is what the Sovereign LORD says to these bones: I will make breath enter you, and you will come to life."


In fact both the Hebrew and Greek words for "soul" are synonymous with "breath"

-Ruach: Strong's Hebrew: 7307. ?????? (ruach) -- breath, wind, spirit

-Nephesh: Strong's Hebrew: 5315. ??????? (nephesh) -- a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion

-Pneuma: Strong's Greek: 4151. ?????? (pneuma) -- wind, spirit

So since you can't kill something that isn't living, abortion in the handful of cases seems reasonable when you consider physical, mental, and emotional states of the mother(a living breathing alive person) over a fetus.

I don't think they should be wantonly available for anyone to use, but outlawing them in all cases to me seems just as wrong. Not to mention, what is with us Christians and trying to force our moral on everyone?

 

[episcopotic]

By any reasonable definition, the cells that make up a fetus are living. They are carrying on respiration, they divide, etc. We call yeast living and alive, even though it has no mind, no breath. If you redefine life as having a soul, then you're using the word in such a way that most people, even Christians, won't recognize.

Now, is it a separate life? Is it a viable life? Is it a person? These are valid questions.

 

[Elizabeth619]

I see lots of people say that an unborn child counts as living...yet no proof about this outside of emotion. Since biblically life is always associated with breath, something has to be breathe in the breath of life. Meaning life doesn't begin until birth.
Genesis 2:7 "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being." The first human life did not begin with the first two particles of dust that God assembled. It didn't even begin when all of the particles of dust were assembled. It began with the first breath.

This is far from the only passage that suggests that life begins with the first breath rather than conception:

-Job 33:4 "The Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life."

-Ezekiel 37:5 "This is what the Sovereign LORD says to these bones: I will make breath enter you, and you will come to life."


In fact both the Hebrew and Greek words for "soul" are synonymous with "breath"

-Ruach: Strong's Hebrew: 7307. ?????? (ruach) -- breath, wind, spirit

-Nephesh: Strong's Hebrew: 5315. ??????? (nephesh) -- a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion

-Pneuma: Strong's Greek: 4151. ?????? (pneuma) -- wind, spirit

So since you can't kill something that isn't living, abortion in the handful of cases seems reasonable when you consider physical, mental, and emotional states of the mother(a living breathing alive person) over a fetus.

I don't think they should be wantonly available for anyone to use, but outlawing them in all cases to me seems just as wrong. Not to mention, what is with us Christians and trying to force our moral on everyone?

"Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying: "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations." (Jeremiah 1:4-5).

"What then shall I do when God rises up? When He punishes, how shall I answer Him? Did not He who made me in the womb make them? Did not the same One fashion us in the womb?" (Job 31:14-15)

"For You formed my inward parts; you covered me in my mother’s womb. I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; marvelous are Your works, and that my soul knows very well." (Psalm 139:13-14)


Luke 1:15 states that John the Baptist will be "filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother's womb", which means that the baby in the womb has a soul for the Holy Spirit to fill.


BTW, life does begin before birth. If there was not life then nothing would grow. If something has no life then it rots and decays. A baby growing in a uterus HAS life.

Here are just a FEW verses stating that the unborn is HUMAN, and has a soul. So tell me, where does any man have the right to kill another innocent soul?

 

[Nautilus]

Well plants are 'technically' living because they grow to, but no one cries murder if you kill one. And I guess saying that an infinite God already had an idea of who would be before you were born somehow makes you alive...yet not anymore alive than a plant or yeast...

i just dont get it. if i had a daughter id never make her carry a rapists child for 9-10 months that just seems like the cruelest thing possible...

 

[episcopotic]

Well plants are 'technically' living because they grow to, but no one cries murder if you kill one.

That's a strange sort of argument. I bet if you chopped somebody's bonsai collection in half, they'd have some words about it. There was an ancient tree in the news recently that somebody burned down and there were all sorts of emotions. People cry if you run over their dogs, so are they to be afforded the same dignity and rights as humans? Are our protections are based on somebody's emotional response?

I'm not saying your conclusions are wrong, by the way, but they can't be based on vague redefinitions of life or somebody else's emotions. There are really good ways to argue for or against abortion, but it's not by pointing at a living cell and saying it's not alive.

Plants are just as alive as you are. This does not diminish your dignity.

 

[smithbr8]

Very going point.

Also, who are WE as sinners to determine if a life has the right to continue living or not? To kill a life because it is an inconvenience to you or a "bad memory" is not at all Godly.
For anyone to excuse abortion needs a reality check. In my opinion being pregnant isnt the problem, but the selfish and cruel ways of the mother is.

However, who are we to say that if the mother's life is in danger that her life no longer matters? If a mother will die when she delivers, why are we do quick to say "too bad"?

 

[Nautilus]

Besides Ill side with the living over the not so/not quite living everytime.

 

[Lindsay]

Abortion is wrong, no matter how you slice it. Abortion is murder. Abortion is taking a life.
I would say, in extreme cases, where the mother's life is in danger, then yes, abortion is,
possibly the only answer. I really hesitate to say that because something in me recoils at
the idea, but I can understand, especially if there are other children involved. ok there, i
said it.

And that brings me to another topic. Why are pedophiles and rapists still allowed to
father children. Should they be sterilized either voluntarily or involuntarily?

 

[Elizabeth619]

Well plants are 'technically' living because they grow to, but no one cries murder if you kill one. And I guess saying that an infinite God already had an idea of who would be before you were born somehow makes you alive...yet not anymore alive than a plant or yeast...

i just dont get it. if i had a daughter id never make her carry a rapists child for 9-10 months that just seems like the cruelest thing possible...

My sister was raped. She got pregnant. Regardless of how she got pregnant that little girl was a blessing to us all. She is about to be 11. It is rather sad that people such as you think that someone like my niece existing is a cruel thing.

 

[Elizabeth619]

That's a strange sort of argument. I bet if you chopped somebody's bonsai collection in half, they'd have some words about it. There was an ancient tree in the news recently that somebody burned down and there were all sorts of emotions. People cry if you run over their dogs, so are they to be afforded the same dignity and rights as humans? Are our protections are based on somebody's emotional response?

I'm not saying your conclusions are wrong, by the way, but they can't be based on vague redefinitions of life or somebody else's emotions. There are really good ways to argue for or against abortion, but it's not by pointing at a living cell and saying it's not alive.

Plants are just as alive as you are. This does not diminish your dignity.

His arguement is weak. He is comparing a human life to a plant.

 

[Elizabeth619]

However, who are we to say that if the mother's life is in danger that her life no longer matters? If a mother will die when she delivers, why are we do quick to say "too bad"?

Wanna know something funny? If I was put in that position I would tell doctors to save my baby. I would sacrifice my life in a heartbeat to save my child.

 

[Elizabeth619]

Abortion is wrong, no matter how you slice it. Abortion is murder. Abortion is taking a life.
I would say, in extreme cases, where the mother's life is in danger, then yes, abortion is,
possibly the only answer. I really hesitate to say that because something in me recoils at
the idea, but I can understand, especially if there are other children involved. ok there, i
said it.

And that brings me to another topic. Why are pedophiles and rapists still allowed to
father children. Should they be sterilized either voluntarily or involuntarily?

. Just because a pervert reproduces it doesnt mean his children will be the same way.

 

[Lindsay]

but why should a woman or a child be subjected to nine months of torture in carrying that fetus. Wouldnt it be
logical to stop rapist/pedophiles from impregnating their victims?

 

[Dude653]

Well even though this thread is not about abortion..i will say this. It's funny people say ''pro choice'' when the unborn child has no choice in the matter.

 

[Elizabeth619]

but why should a woman or a child be subjected to nine months of torture in carrying that fetus. Wouldnt it be
logical to stop rapist/pedophiles from impregnating their victims?

Don't you think it would be better to prevent the sexual assault altogether? How you are talking it sounds like you are saying it is ok to sexually assault someone as long as you don't get them pregnant. I know that is not what you think but that is how it looks.

 

[Kathleen]

I see lots of people say that an unborn child counts as living...yet no proof about this outside of emotion. Since biblically life is always associated with breath, something has to be breathe in the breath of life. Meaning life doesn't begin until birth.
Genesis 2:7 "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being." The first human life did not begin with the first two particles of dust that God assembled. It didn't even begin when all of the particles of dust were assembled. It began with the first breath.

This is far from the only passage that suggests that life begins with the first breath rather than conception:

-Job 33:4 "The Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life."

-Ezekiel 37:5 "This is what the Sovereign LORD says to these bones: I will make breath enter you, and you will come to life."


In fact both the Hebrew and Greek words for "soul" are synonymous with "breath"

-Ruach: Strong's Hebrew: 7307. ?????? (ruach) -- breath, wind, spirit

-Nephesh: Strong's Hebrew: 5315. ??????? (nephesh) -- a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion

-Pneuma: Strong's Greek: 4151. ?????? (pneuma) -- wind, spirit

So since you can't kill something that isn't living, abortion in the handful of cases seems reasonable when you consider physical, mental, and emotional states of the mother(a living breathing alive person) over a fetus.

I don't think they should be wantonly available for anyone to use, but outlawing them in all cases to me seems just as wrong. Not to mention, what is with us Christians and trying to force our moral on everyone?

"I knew you before I formed you in your mother's womb. Before you were born I set you apart and appointed you as my prophet to the nations." Jeremiah 1:5

I think this is a good example of why, as unborn children, we are counted members of society.

-Kath

 

[Lindsay]

Don't you think it would be better to prevent the sexual assault altogether? How you are talking it sounds like you are saying it is ok to sexually assault someone as long as you don't get them pregnant. I know that is not what you think but that is how it looks.

WELL MY GOSH YES, it would be better to stop assault altogether, but that wont happen and anyone with a pea sized brain knows it wont stop. How long have people been trying to stop rape of
every kind and failed miserably. OF COURSE it would be better if rape never happened but it has and does and will. I am simply saying that at least pregnacy could be avoided by sterilizing ALL convicted rapists and pedophiles.

You have been consistant in your attacks on me. I believe it is because you dont read completely or that you simply don't understand what Im saying. If you would back up and read with an open mind rather than making an attack over one line or because you misunderstand wording, there would be no reason for you to attack. I believe you are LOOKING for something to attack and if that is the cause I forgive you. Please, move on.

 

[Nautilus]

"I knew you before I formed you in your mother's womb. Before you were born I set you apart and appointed you as my prophet to the nations." Jeremiah 1:5

I think this is a good example of why, as unborn children, we are counted members of society.

-Kath

I mean I guess if you take a verse meant specifically for the call of Jeremiah and say it applies universally then I guess i's your right too, but it seems terribly out of context. Not to mention it doesn't say anything about being alive, just that he knew jeremiah before conception...

 

[wolfywolfs]

Wanna know something funny? If I was put in that position I would tell doctors to save my baby. I would sacrifice my life in a heartbeat to save my child.

fine thats you but that is not for everyone it sounds like everyone should follow your examples but everyone is different some people mental abilities are weaker than say yours which is stronger some mother who do give birth to the rapists children can self harm suicide or harm the child. you need to think more about other people before jumping in and say "have the child".

as with abortion to save the mothers life again this also depends on a situation for example if my girlfriend got pregnant unplanned we agreed on an abortion because if she got pregnant with out taking certain medication first she and the child could die and we both agreed we want her and the child to live

 

[Lucy68]

Well plants are 'technically' living because they grow to, but no one cries murder if you kill one. And I guess saying that an infinite God already had an idea of who would be before you were born somehow makes you alive...yet not anymore alive than a plant or yeast...

i just dont get it. if i had a daughter id never make her carry a rapists child for 9-10 months that just seems like the cruelest thing possible...

Is this more cruel than ripping a baby limb-to-limb?