How much does your personal experiences affect your faith?
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I do not know about others, but when I look back on outside influenced events of my past, the fact that I am here typing on a computer is a miracle. It is likely anyone would think me a lunatic or a total liar were I to recount the events I have survived, yet here I am. Now, for me, after realizing God has taken a personal interest in me all of my life makes me feel I know that all are miraculously preserved in just as personal a manner by our good and loving God. It is (for me) a fact that each breath and each heartbeat is directed by our Father Who is so good. He loves us so much, even before we recognize that He is our Maker. He is incredible. Just think on how incredible it is that we are each here. To survive life in this age a month is a miracle let alone a normal life span. Every instant is a gift from our blessed God, Yahweh, amen...
Thanks for that input. I can relate somewhat to what you say as experiences were important at the early stage of my faith (and during my charismatic period) as well. However, as monergism became absolutely clear to me all that focus dropped. I guess the option closest to what you say would be that experiences affect your faith Only in as far as it is line strictly with scripture since that is in line with that "God chooses to glorify Himself in them". I think that is a wholly relevant and valid input. Yet personally I do not see that very important thing as affecting my faith per se. I do see a little affect in experiences though, primarily the experience of not letting experiences affect my faith 
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P
I have an affinity for words and their precise meanings, and so the poll question posed no little difficulty for me, and I've spent hours looking at the Word and meditating on verses about faith. (for that I thank you, Tribesman!)
Just Strong's short definition of "pistis" (faith), given as "faith; belief; trust" added to my confusion, as those three things carry distinct differences, at least in my mind and, I think, in scripture.
Faith is no more or less than a gift from God (but the nature of a gift is that it becomes the possession of the recipient, right?). And from what I can see, there is a salvic way that faith acts, and then in the life of a believer there's a subtle change. My belief that God exists and that everything He says is true doesn't change: that is faith, and is from the Word alone.
However...my trust has changed. I call this the renewing of my mind, and I hope I agree with God on this. As I hear the Word more and more, does the measure of faith increase? I think all the faith I would ever need was given me by God in order that I may believe He is, and that Jesus is the only Way to Him. So, is it that I simply come to see Him as He is and then agree with the truth? Is this what's meant by "faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of God"?
The trust issue has been connected to experience, for me, at least. As a young believer, circumstances arose which tested that trust, and each time the Lord worked something out (sometimes with endings which made me rejoice, and others which made me weep) my trust in His fidelity grew.
Also, I might believe God can do something, but without faith I may never see it realized, if that makes sense.
This (the poll question) remains a rich idea for me, and one which I am pleased to ponder further. Surely my faith is not defined by my experience, as it is the Lord's own gift, and nothing I can "work up", or that experience should change. Yet, belief and trust are different in that they have changed, and that's why I posed the initial question I did.
~ellie
Just Strong's short definition of "pistis" (faith), given as "faith; belief; trust" added to my confusion, as those three things carry distinct differences, at least in my mind and, I think, in scripture.
Faith is no more or less than a gift from God (but the nature of a gift is that it becomes the possession of the recipient, right?). And from what I can see, there is a salvic way that faith acts, and then in the life of a believer there's a subtle change. My belief that God exists and that everything He says is true doesn't change: that is faith, and is from the Word alone.
However...my trust has changed. I call this the renewing of my mind, and I hope I agree with God on this. As I hear the Word more and more, does the measure of faith increase? I think all the faith I would ever need was given me by God in order that I may believe He is, and that Jesus is the only Way to Him. So, is it that I simply come to see Him as He is and then agree with the truth? Is this what's meant by "faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of God"?
The trust issue has been connected to experience, for me, at least. As a young believer, circumstances arose which tested that trust, and each time the Lord worked something out (sometimes with endings which made me rejoice, and others which made me weep) my trust in His fidelity grew.
Also, I might believe God can do something, but without faith I may never see it realized, if that makes sense.
This (the poll question) remains a rich idea for me, and one which I am pleased to ponder further. Surely my faith is not defined by my experience, as it is the Lord's own gift, and nothing I can "work up", or that experience should change. Yet, belief and trust are different in that they have changed, and that's why I posed the initial question I did.
~ellie
If we are walking by faith, then we are trusting in the promises of God. There is no faith to walk in outside the promises of God. We must always have hope in our experience. Any experience we have as believers must come from the promises of God to give us hope. To hope in God's word is to have hope through His promises. Our faith that comes from God has two important aspects, promise and hope. Without promise and hope we will never have a faith described in (Heb 11:1)...
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
This is why there is a distortion about keeping the commandments which effects the believer's experience in his daily walk. When we walk by faith in God's promises we are judging that God is faithful to what He has promised (Heb 10:23. 11:11). Our work is to believe in the promise of God and to live with the hope that is produces in our faith (Rom 5:1-5) giving us a labour of love (1Thes 1:3). To keep even one of the commandments we must have faith, hope and charity through the promises of God. If you try to keep the commandments without faith, hope and charity through God's promise, you will end up in your experience as a transgressor.
But we don't keep the commandments that way as believers, our faith is in the one who fulfilled the law and all of its commandments and we have hope through His promise that He has begun a new work in us and will be faithful to perform that work until the day of redemption (Phil 1:6). We abide in Him and let the words of His good promise abide in us to give us hope and direct us into a labour of love motivated by the Holy Spirit. This labour of love and work of faith becomes our experience and is the substance of things hoped for which becomes our fruit in whatever form it returns unto us and unto God. Christ is the vine, we are the branches that abide in the vine. God is the husbandman, the tiller of the soil and the vine dresser.
The only experience that the believer is to be focused upon is to bear fruit and all that God does to make that happen in the plan of God that includes trials and testings. There is no other way to bear fruit outside of (Jn 15:4)...
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
This is why there is a distortion about keeping the commandments which effects the believer's experience in his daily walk. When we walk by faith in God's promises we are judging that God is faithful to what He has promised (Heb 10:23. 11:11). Our work is to believe in the promise of God and to live with the hope that is produces in our faith (Rom 5:1-5) giving us a labour of love (1Thes 1:3). To keep even one of the commandments we must have faith, hope and charity through the promises of God. If you try to keep the commandments without faith, hope and charity through God's promise, you will end up in your experience as a transgressor.
But we don't keep the commandments that way as believers, our faith is in the one who fulfilled the law and all of its commandments and we have hope through His promise that He has begun a new work in us and will be faithful to perform that work until the day of redemption (Phil 1:6). We abide in Him and let the words of His good promise abide in us to give us hope and direct us into a labour of love motivated by the Holy Spirit. This labour of love and work of faith becomes our experience and is the substance of things hoped for which becomes our fruit in whatever form it returns unto us and unto God. Christ is the vine, we are the branches that abide in the vine. God is the husbandman, the tiller of the soil and the vine dresser.
The only experience that the believer is to be focused upon is to bear fruit and all that God does to make that happen in the plan of God that includes trials and testings. There is no other way to bear fruit outside of (Jn 15:4)...
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
C
*shaking head in disagreement*
I would expect something like that to come out of the mouth of a Calvinist seeing seeing as Calvinism is, for the most part, intellectualized Christianity. Calvinism is not only infamous for it's love of knowledge, it's also notorious for it's lack of compassion which is why historically Calvinists have persecuted, tortured and killed other Christians who would not embrace their teachings. Why did they do this? Because they valued their doctrine (knowledge) over the souls of men.
One can know a lot about God and still not know God. The Pharisees were considered the religious experts of their time yet when God Himself lived among them through Christ, they didn't even recognize Him. There is a huge difference between possessing a lot of knowledge about God and actually loving the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul & strength. I believe that is why Jesus added a second commandment; "and love your neighbor as yourself" because it is our compassion (love) for people which keeps our passion (love) for knowledge in check, thus keeping us from falling head first into self righteousness.
You see, one can possess right doctrine and still walk in serious error because of their lack of love. You can not possess the real truth about God without love because God himself is love. If you truly have the Spirit of God (the indwelling Holy Spirit) residing in you, then you too will walk in love because it is His nature to love (see Galatians 5). To put things simply: You can not possess truth without love because THE TRUTH IS LOVE.
In ending, it really doesn't matter what doctrine you believe or even if that doctrine is indeed correct, if you do not love God with your whole heart and love people as yourself than you are nothing more that the modern equivalent to a spiritually dead religious pharisee.
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crossfire, you repeat again what you have said elsewhere several times. You do make it very easy for yourself and seem to see no reason to make any distinctions whatsoever, rather you assume things after own liking, it seems. Just repeat the word "love" many times and then anything goes (an old trick to make opponents appear "unloving"). Neither Paul nor church history would agree that "it really doesn't matter what doctrine you believe" and doctrine is NOT a "preference" as you put it. Nor has anyone here suggested that divine knowledge should not be acted upon in love, if that is your prejudice or subtle accusation (seen it before, sad if you continue in it). If so you are but tilting against windmills or preaching nothing but yourself and your own excellence. But as said in post#34 this is actually all off-topic. Please respect that, if anything else so for the sake of others who want to stay on-topic.
T
I find it interesting that most people on this board answered "very much," and yet a majority of those people self-identify as "fundamentalist."
Strictly speaking, fundamentalism requires that personal experience cannot affect you faith. According to the Fundamentals, ONLY Scripture informs your faith, nothing else. Some people got it right by answering "only insofar as it is in line with Scripture," but since that was an option, anyone claiming to be a fundamentalist should have picked that one.
This is why I am NOT a fundamentalist: because I am honest. As wonderful as "Sola Scriptura" may be for a sound bite, it just isn't practical.
The only complaint I have is that we couldn't vote for multiple choices. I would have liked to pick "a lot" and "other: only so far as it edifies my God and my neighbor"
Strictly speaking, fundamentalism requires that personal experience cannot affect you faith. According to the Fundamentals, ONLY Scripture informs your faith, nothing else. Some people got it right by answering "only insofar as it is in line with Scripture," but since that was an option, anyone claiming to be a fundamentalist should have picked that one.
This is why I am NOT a fundamentalist: because I am honest. As wonderful as "Sola Scriptura" may be for a sound bite, it just isn't practical.
The only complaint I have is that we couldn't vote for multiple choices. I would have liked to pick "a lot" and "other: only so far as it edifies my God and my neighbor"
E
Actually, growing up a fundamentalist. this would not be true. They would be affected by experience probably more than anyone, as they tend to hold to a legalistic perspective which states if bad things happen, it must be for sin and so forth.
In reality nothing should affect our faith. The gospel states we are children of God, we are born of God, Our savior is at the right hand of God and makes intercession for us, even when we screw up, and when Christ returns, we WILL, not might be, be raised by him. If we do as paul says when he made these comments and set our minds and hearts on the things above, nothing could affect us., because we know what God thinks of us, and what our position in him is, and nothing that happens here on earth will affect that!
Now if, unfortunately, your one who thinks salvation can be lost, or our position in Christ is not secure based on what we do or do not do. Then things in life would affect you in a strong way. which is sad.
In reality nothing should affect our faith. The gospel states we are children of God, we are born of God, Our savior is at the right hand of God and makes intercession for us, even when we screw up, and when Christ returns, we WILL, not might be, be raised by him. If we do as paul says when he made these comments and set our minds and hearts on the things above, nothing could affect us., because we know what God thinks of us, and what our position in him is, and nothing that happens here on earth will affect that!
Now if, unfortunately, your one who thinks salvation can be lost, or our position in Christ is not secure based on what we do or do not do. Then things in life would affect you in a strong way. which is sad.
I hear this complaint. By intention I limited the options to be relatively few and held the vote to be strictly for one alternative. This is the only way to really effectively boil it down and see people's primary mind on the issue. Though I'm sure it "scares" away some and some will not vote because they need an extra alternative. But I am also quite sure that even these people, if they boil down the issue much enough, are leaning to one of the seven alternatives.
Not really. If I had never experienced peace or anything like that through Christ, I wouldn't know that He was the way, and probably wouldn't call myself a Christian. So, I suppose that affects my faith quite a bit.
But as for "going through a dry spot", as they say, or letting my everyday feelings (or lack thereof) cause doubt, then I don't really think that my personal experiences affect my faith at all. Truth is what truth is, regardless of how I feel about it, lol. But the reason I know Christianity is true... is because I have experienced it.
Catch-22, the way I see it.
But as for "going through a dry spot", as they say, or letting my everyday feelings (or lack thereof) cause doubt, then I don't really think that my personal experiences affect my faith at all. Truth is what truth is, regardless of how I feel about it, lol. But the reason I know Christianity is true... is because I have experienced it.
Catch-22, the way I see it.
T
I'm sorry I didn't make myself clearer. What I meant was that fundamentalism teaches that it should not be influenced by experience, but that in reality, fundamentalists actually are influenced by experience, moreso than non-fundamentalists. So yes, growing up a fundamentalist, you would have noticed that, too.
It seems to me that "fundamentalism" is fading away. I see more people embracing "evangelist" views, which is similar to fundamentalism, but not nearly so doggedly strict. Is this just a product of me being on the West Coast, or have others noticed a shift?
It seems to me that "fundamentalism" is fading away. I see more people embracing "evangelist" views, which is similar to fundamentalism, but not nearly so doggedly strict. Is this just a product of me being on the West Coast, or have others noticed a shift?
My personal experiences effect my faith 100%. How could I know God is good if He didn't show me? How could I know the promises of the bible were true unless I test them for myself? Is the bible really for all of us or just written to the people back in that time...?
Without personal experience there is no point. I think that is what the book of James is trying to explain when the author states faith without works is dead. There is a difference in the intellectual belief in the Lord Jesus and the trust in Jesus that can come from this intellectual belief. Trust in Jesus causes a person to ask for wisdom and understanding. Trust in Jesus causes a person to humble themselves before God.
Intellectual belief in Jesus has a tendency to puff itself up and become prideful. Intellectual belief in Jesus doesn't necessarily cause anything in the believers life. Trust in Jesus doesn't happen until after experience. Otherwise, its just an intellectual trust, theoretical.
You can have an intellectual belief that the life vest will cause you to float if you fall in the water. You can't have trust in that life vest until you've been in the water with it... I think there is a big difference in being saved, and thinking theoretically that it is possible that a person can be saved.
I didn't see this option in the poll...
Without personal experience there is no point. I think that is what the book of James is trying to explain when the author states faith without works is dead. There is a difference in the intellectual belief in the Lord Jesus and the trust in Jesus that can come from this intellectual belief. Trust in Jesus causes a person to ask for wisdom and understanding. Trust in Jesus causes a person to humble themselves before God.
Intellectual belief in Jesus has a tendency to puff itself up and become prideful. Intellectual belief in Jesus doesn't necessarily cause anything in the believers life. Trust in Jesus doesn't happen until after experience. Otherwise, its just an intellectual trust, theoretical.
You can have an intellectual belief that the life vest will cause you to float if you fall in the water. You can't have trust in that life vest until you've been in the water with it... I think there is a big difference in being saved, and thinking theoretically that it is possible that a person can be saved.
I didn't see this option in the poll...