Can Salvation be lost??

[feedm3]

Do you see anywhere in there where Paul says he is using his flesh as an excuse to sin?

No. It just shows the constant war the flesh has with the spirit and how it may appear to someone looking from the outside as if they were living in a manner that would be considered 'unsaved' and then were brought back. You know, the answer to your question...

If I knew I would not have asked. Maybe you should provide clarfication when posting. How could I know this is what you meant, by simply reading that passage?

Anyway, I dont know what you believe either way, so if your saying some only apprear to be unsaved, then I guess you believe a Christian can live in sin and still be saved. So OSAS it seems.

 

[Grandpa]

If I knew I would not have asked. Maybe you should provide clarfication when posting. How could I know this is what you meant, by simply reading that passage?

Anyway, I dont know what you believe either way, so if your saying some only apprear to be unsaved, then I guess you believe a Christian can live in sin and still be saved. So OSAS it seems.

Living in sin is a pretty general term isn't it? Does it mean sinning for just a moment, or does it mean sinning constantly every second of every day for a determined amount of days?

I suppose it takes the discipline of the habits one learned while being saved to prevent them from 'living in sin'. Renewing the mind, so to speak.

He leads me into paths of Righteousness. I fear no evil because His rod and staff (of correction and guidance) comfort me. I added what is inside the parenthesis for clarification.

I believe saved Christians are still figuring it all out and living the best they are able. I don't believe that saved Christians are perfect while still living in the flesh. They want to be perfect, like Romans 7 says, but they are in a war. You can lose a few battles and still win the war, right?

 

[starfield]

an ever better point.

A saved person CAN NOT LIVE IN SIN. so how can a saved person, who is living in sin, which he can't do anyway, be brought back? From what?

1 John 3:9
Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

along with 1 John 5: 18

18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself,[e] and the wicked one does not touch him.

so tell me. If John says a person who is born of God CAN NOT live in sin. Why do people waant to claim a child of God CAN live in sin, fall from grace, and have to be restored to salvation?

"Does not sin" means whoever says they are born of God cannot live in continual sin as if they were unsaved. A person that is born of God with a new nature will continually choose to submit to God because they have overcome the world. However it does not mean there is no possibility of going back to the old nature because the mortal body is still present and susceptible to the pull of sin. Romans 7:19- For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do-the flesh is at war with the spirit.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

"My God"? Throw that around a bit loosely their dont you? I guess that typical of one who does not claim to fear God.

typical. can't refute what I said, so instead you attack. yet once again, I thought you said you were not going to do this again. You cant even do what you claim you are going to do. why should we listen to anything else you say?

"Duh" now" Lets see here.

Error - being wrong about something

Liar - one who is not telling the truth on purpose.

So again how does me saying your in error equate to me calling you lair? Duh?

hmm. I am doing it on purpose. so I must be a liar, duhh!!

Dude that's just plain stupid. First off in the 1st century Chirstians assembled, it was not full of unbelievers and believers and were mostly held in homes. They were being severly perscucted, it was not the same church "service" we have today.

another assumpition. The church then had the same problems we had today. fake chrisitans who attended the meetings. false teachers who were infiltrating the church (timothy was written for this very reason. guess you forgot this. you are wrong in so many ways, all based on assumptions. again, I can not base my belief on assumptions!

2nd.
Those the Greek word for the church is "ekklasia" meanig the "called out". So when a letter is addressed to the "church" it does not give the idea of a mixed assmebly, but a group that has been "called out" of the world into Christ.

Cmon greek master, you can figue this out right?

Unlike you. I do not just assume, I take the greek defenition!

ἐκκλησία, -ας, ἡ, (fr. ἔκκλητος called out or forth, and this fr. ἐκκαλέω prop. a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place; an assembly; so used
1. among the Greeks from Thuc. [cf. Hdt. 3, 142] down, an assembly of the people convened at the public place of council for the purpose of deliberating: Acts 19:39.


Thayer, J. H. (1889). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament: Being Grimm's Wilke's Clavis Novi Testamenti (195–196). New York: Harper & Brothers.

ἐκκλησία, ἡ, (ἔκκλητο&#962 an assembly of the citizens regularly summoned, the legislative assembly, Thuc., etc.:—at Athens, the ordinary Assemblies were called κύριαι, the extraordinary being σύγκλητοι, ap. Dem.; ἐκκλ. συναγείρειν, συνάγειν, συλλέγειν, ἀθροίζειν to call an assembly, Hdt., etc.; ἐκκλ. ποιεῖν ‘to make a house,’ Ar.; ἐκκλ. γίγνεται, καθίσταται an assembly is held, Thuc.; ἐκκλ. διαλύειν, ἀναστῆσαι to dissolve it, Id., etc.; ἀναβάλλειν to adjourn it, Id.
II. in N.T. the Church, either the body, or the place. Hence ἐκκλησιάζω


Liddell, H. (1996). A lexicon: Abridged from Liddell and Scott’s Greek-English lexicon (239). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.



ASSEMBLY
1. ekklesia (ἐκκλησία, 1577), from ek, “out of,” and klesis, “a calling” (kaleo, “to call&#8221, was used among the Greeks of a body of citizens “gathered” to discuss the affairs of state, Acts 19:39. In the Sept. it is used to designate the “gathering” of Israel, summoned for any definite purpose, or a “gathering” regarded as representative of the whole nation. In Acts 7:38 it is used of Israel; in 19:32, 41, of a riotous mob. It has two applications to companies of Christians, (a) to the whole company of the redeemed throughout the present era, the company of which Christ said, “I will build My Church,” Matt. 16:18, and which is further described as “the Church which is His Body,” Eph. 1:22; 5:23, (b) in the singular number (e.g., Matt. 18:17, RV marg., “congregation&#8221, to a company consisting of professed believers,


Vine, W. E., Unger, M. F., & White, W., Jr. (1996). Vol. 2: Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words (42). Nashville, TN: T. Nelson.

in conclusion:

ekklesia, a gathering of people for any reason for a particular purpose.

1. of all true believers, also known as the body of Christ
2. A gathering together of those PROFESSING to be believers. yet back in the NT as well as today, Not all people who confess to be believers are true believers. there are MANY imposters. As john said, they departed from us from who? they church they claimed to be a part of and professed to believe in, but they WERE NEVER OF US, they were never members of the true body of Christ, but they WERE part of the local church.

keep trying my friend. You may get it one day.

I

beleive we can reject grace (even after receiving it) by going prodigal. Living in sin, willfully sinning, turning our backs on God.

1. a prodigal son never stopped being the son, he just lost access to being blessed by his father for the time he was away from his fathers house.

You beleive:
A saved person will not live in sin because that shows he was never saved.

You know. I am SO SICK OF YOU TRYING TO TELL ME WHAT I BELIEVE WHEN YOU ARE CONTINUALLY WRONG IN YOUR ASSUMPTIONS. DON'T YOU GET SICK OF PUTTING YOUR FOOT IN YOUR MOUTH CONTINUALLY??

John says, if we say we have no sin, we decieve ourselves. are you decieved? so if I believe this. how can I believe they will never sin?

I don;t even need to refute you. all I need to do is let you talk, you refute yourself by spreading lies about what people believe, and ALL THE WORLD SEES IT!

Then, A saved person living in sin will be brought back to God and have no chioce. Another contradiction. How can a saved person live in a manner that shows he was never saved be brought back?

A saved person can not LIVE IN SIN. John makes this clear. But you do not believe John either. And here again you are lieing about what I believe. Guess what my friend. A changed lifestyle is a work which is empowered by God and given to ALL who are born of God.

You can reject Grace:
Ii Cor 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain

You have never once attempted to explain the above passage. Can you? Go to the context, read it, then give me your ridiculous answer, and then I will show you the correct interpretation.

whats to explain? I tell you the gospel. You recieve it. But you never trust it. You just "believe it" with no faith. then, as will happen, You will reject it and turn back to what you believed in the first place. What does this mean> you recieved the word of grace in vein.

But again you can;t believe this.

So then you are not able to sin. How is that?

1. Does it mean you cant because God wont let you,
2. or because sins has been paid for allowing you to commit it?
3. Or becuase you will not choose to sin ever again?

It means YOU WILL NOT LIVE AS YOUR FORMER SELF. You refuse to see or acknowledge you sin ever day don;t you? how can you claim you are more deserving or righteous than anyone else when every day for times you probably don;t even realise you are in sin. How many sins makes a person unrighteous? 1? 5? 10? 100? don;t you realise the very man you are trying to use to support your own false gospel is against you? for james says if you break even the least of the law. you are as guilty as if you have broken all the law? do you not understand what that means? or are you so self righteous you refuse to see it?

you know what the difference between you and me is? you think you are righteous, I know I am a condemned sinner saved by the grace of God, and I WILL NEVER LIVE UP TO THE RIGHTOUS STANDARD DEMANDED BY GOD.

Please clarify which is it? You always say this, and your awser is alway vauge" because John said it". I know John said it.
I am asking you what it means. HOw is it a Chirstian will never live in sin again?????? Give a straght answer, pretend someone at your church is asking you to explain it.

dont be afriad.

afraid of what? you? lol don;t think so highly of yourself. No one would be afraid of you, you defeat yourself by continueally spreading lies, continually saying people believe things which are not true. You are your own worst enemy and you can;t even see it.

The greek word means habitual sin. It means living like you did BEFORE you became a christian, it means living as the world lives. You will not be sinless. But you CAN"T live as the world. Why? You ever try continually going against your fathers will when he beat you to a pulp every time you disobayed him. Well how do you think a christian feels when he sins, and GOD HIMSELF CHASTENS YOU? God will chasten you MUCH harder than your earthly father ever did. Maybe this is your problem. You have never felt the chastening of God. Well ask those of us who have been chastenbed, and then you will understand why we can not live in sin.

No it doesnt, I have been cleansed by the blood of Christ. If I happen to sin, I need to repent, and confess my sin and he is faithufl and just to forgive me.

Christ died for you over 2000 years ago. Which means the sins he paid for which you commit were paid for 200 yearsw before you were born. He either died for every sin you will ever commit from the moment you were born until the moment you die, Or you are in dire straits, because the sin he did not die for, you have no hope of having forgivem you will die in your sin.'


God said he saved you befoire time began, which means before God even created this earth and mankind, he knew every sin you would ever commit in your life. And he chose at that time to save you anyway. Do you think you are going to fool God and commit a sin he did not know you were going to commit in the first place? To say God would give you eternal life knowing every sin you would ever commit, then take it back for commiting the sin he KNEW you would commit in the first place before he even saved you, well I just can;t put words to it,

You believe I can remain in my sin and not have to worry about eternal consequences. Sorry, not swollowing that, the Bible speaks much concerning this.

No, I believe if you remain in sin, and never showed a change in life, you were never saved, because if you did truly repent and you were born of God. you would not continue in sin. Yet once again you make a false accusation of what I believ, do you not ever get sick of it? Once again you are proven to be a liar.

[quote[Again way out of context. I am not teaching anyone to return to the Law of Moses.[/quote]

You can say it until your blue in the face, it will not make it real. You are teaching a works of law. not of Grace, deny it all you want, your only fooling yourself!

Are you under any law at all? Does grace remove law? One time you said you were under the law of chirst, does that mean it's a law of no law?

God has taken the things which were against me, which were contrary to me, and nailed it to the cross. Why do you still want to hold yourelf under law? I am under the law of grace, I do not sin not because God said no. But I understand God has a reason to say do not do this. Because it DAMAGES ME AND THOSE AROUND ME.

You said it. True repentance which leads to salvation. Is repetnacne a work done on our part? How does it lead to salation. If we do not repent can we be saved?

How can repent be a work? repent means to change ones mind, that is not a work. You are drawing on straws now buddy,

And if we fail in the future, repentance is still avalible. At least until God's shuts the door.

if you truely repented, you do not need to repent again. Repent is not asking forgiveness, that is confession. Repent means to change your mind from what you believed before, and you agree with God. If you agree with God that lieing is a sin, How can you repent of that sin again? you already agreed with God it was sin. You just went back to your flesh, and it won out. You can not repent of something you already agreed was sin in the first place.

Okay then debate me.

Your debating yourself. and failing miserably

[/quote]I am attacking your doctrine, not you as a person. You doctrine is phony and fake. [/quote]

Realy? How can you attack what you do not know? 3 times in this very response I am responding to, you made claims of my doctrine which were totally false. Yet you claim you are attacking what I believe? dude, you must understand what I believe before you can attack it!

Really I didnt catch that passage that showed this, can you paste it?

Yes I assume that the church is saved because of Acts 2:47. YOU?

Acts 2: 47 spoke of one aspect of the ekklesia. Those born of God. Paul wrote to churches, or congregations. Not everyone in any congregation is saved, You refuse to see it or acknowledge it because again it would destroy your whole belief system;/

I assume those who can ask for the wisdom in faith are saved? YOU?

Why would I do this>? many people who ask for it don;t believe the answer given to them, You do know what you do when you assume donlt you? I never assume anything!

My assumptions are based on text, your are forced because you need them to mean that. Why else are you pushing this 2nd group of unbelievers so hard? Because you need them. And your assumptions are factless. Show me one fact youve stated. My facts are the passages. NOw where are yours?

Your facts are assumptions based on your faulty bnelief system. They are not facts at all.

NO HE DID NOT YOU ADDED "ZERO".

If one says he hgas faith but has NO WORK. now let me see, your going to say the word no does not equal zero. but can equal something else? Wow just wow!!

well let me help you!

the word without means apart from, destitute of. If I am destitute of clothes, it means I have none. It does not mean I have som or any at all
Something that is destitute is missing completly, which would means he is saying non whatsoever, zero zip nada. But again, you can;t see this.

I REST MY CASE, YOUR STUCK ON ZERO WHEN THE PASSAGES ARE SPEKAING OF OBEDIENCE BEING THE ESSENCE OF TRUE FAITH. THAT ABOVE YOUR LEVEL THOUGH, YOULL NEVER GET THAT UNTIL YOU STOP TRYING TO FIND LOOPHOLES FOR SIN.

YOU REST NOTHING/ YOUR STUCK ON OBEDIENCE< WHEN THE PASSAGE IS SPEAKING OF NO FAITH WHATSOEVER.

So if the light swich will not come on then what? It has lost it's light, just as Jesus warned we can do with the illistriation of salt. If it' loses it's savor....we can lose our light, we can reject God.

What? so your saying the power of God, which lights the light can lose its power? so that the light goes out?

Wow. I am sorry you think God is powerless to do something, and needs our help?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

"Does not sin" means whoever says they are born of God cannot live in continual sin as if they were unsaved. A person that is born of God with a new nature will continually choose to submit to God because they have overcome the world. However it does not mean there is no possibility of going back to the old nature because the mortal body is still present and susceptible to the pull of sin. Romans 7:19- For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do-the flesh is at war with the spirit.

This is exactly what it means my friend. Amen and amen. But like the prodigal son, one can not stay away from God for very long, God will not allow it. I know. I have been there done that. there is no worst place then to be a child of God livign away from his fathers house. It is far worse than being a nonbeliever, who does not understand what it is his father can give him. It is like living the life of a millionare, than having it taken away, How long can you live that way before you return to your fathers house. or take your own life because you can;t take it any more (I actually contemplated doing this before I returned to where I belonged.

 

[feedm3]

typical. can't refute what I said, so instead you attack. yet once again, I thought you said you were not going to do this again. You cant even do what you claim you are going to do. why should we listen to anything else you say?

No I dont like when people use God's name as an expression. But i guess if you like to nothing I can do.

hmm. I am doing it on purpose. so I must be a liar, duhh!!

Lol your in error on purpose? Thanks for telling us. I have said that from the begining.

another assumpition. The church then had the same problems we had today. fake chrisitans who attended the meetings. false teachers who were infiltrating the church (timothy was written for this very reason. guess you forgot this. you are wrong in so many ways, all based on assumptions. again, I can not base my belief on assumptions!

Oh really. When is the last time your church was stoned, perscuted by Jews and Romans? Whatever dude this is not even a debate anymore.

Unlike you. I do not just assume, I take the greek defenition!

&#7952;&#954;&#954;&#955;&#951;&#963;&#943;&#945;, -&#945;&#962;, &#7969;, (fr. &#7956;&#954;&#954;&#955;&#951;&#964;&#959;&#962; called out or forth, and this fr. &#7952;&#954;&#954;&#945;&#955;&#941;&#969; prop. a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place; an assembly; so used
1. among the Greeks from Thuc. [cf. Hdt. 3, 142] down, an assembly of the people convened at the public place of council for the purpose of deliberating: Acts 19:39.


Thayer, J. H. (1889). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament: Being Grimm's Wilke's Clavis Novi Testamenti (195&#8211;196). New York: Harper & Brothers.

&#7952;&#954;&#954;&#955;&#951;&#963;&#943;&#945;, &#7969;, (&#7956;&#954;&#954;&#955;&#951;&#964;&#959;&#962 an assembly of the citizens regularly summoned, the legislative assembly, Thuc., etc.:&#8212;at Athens, the ordinary Assemblies were called &#954;&#973;&#961;&#953;&#945;&#953;, the extraordinary being &#963;&#973;&#947;&#954;&#955;&#951;&#964;&#959;&#953;, ap. Dem.; &#7952;&#954;&#954;&#955;. &#963;&#965;&#957;&#945;&#947;&#949;&#943;&#961;&#949;&#953;&#957;, &#963;&#965;&#957;&#940;&#947;&#949;&#953;&#957;, &#963;&#965;&#955;&#955;&#941;&#947;&#949;&#953;&#957;, &#7936;&#952;&#961;&#959;&#943;&#950;&#949;&#953;&#957; to call an assembly, Hdt., etc.; &#7952;&#954;&#954;&#955;. &#960;&#959;&#953;&#949;&#8150;&#957; &#8216;to make a house,&#8217; Ar.; &#7952;&#954;&#954;&#955;. &#947;&#943;&#947;&#957;&#949;&#964;&#945;&#953;, &#954;&#945;&#952;&#943;&#963;&#964;&#945;&#964;&#945;&#953; an assembly is held, Thuc.; &#7952;&#954;&#954;&#955;. &#948;&#953;&#945;&#955;&#973;&#949;&#953;&#957;, &#7936;&#957;&#945;&#963;&#964;&#8134;&#963;&#945;&#953; to dissolve it, Id., etc.; &#7936;&#957;&#945;&#946;&#940;&#955;&#955;&#949;&#953;&#957; to adjourn it, Id.
II. in N.T. the Church, either the body, or the place. Hence &#7952;&#954;&#954;&#955;&#951;&#963;&#953;&#940;&#950;&#969;


Liddell, H. (1996). A lexicon: Abridged from Liddell and Scott&#8217;s Greek-English lexicon (239). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.



ASSEMBLY
1. ekklesia (&#7952;&#954;&#954;&#955;&#951;&#963;&#943;&#945;, 1577), from ek, &#8220;out of,&#8221; and klesis, &#8220;a calling&#8221; (kaleo, &#8220;to call&#8221, was used among the Greeks of a body of citizens &#8220;gathered&#8221; to discuss the affairs of state, Acts 19:39. In the Sept. it is used to designate the &#8220;gathering&#8221; of Israel, summoned for any definite purpose, or a &#8220;gathering&#8221; regarded as representative of the whole nation. In Acts 7:38 it is used of Israel; in 19:32, 41, of a riotous mob. It has two applications to companies of Christians, (a) to the whole company of the redeemed throughout the present era, the company of which Christ said, &#8220;I will build My Church,&#8221; Matt. 16:18, and which is further described as &#8220;the Church which is His Body,&#8221; Eph. 1:22; 5:23, (b) in the singular number (e.g., Matt. 18:17, RV marg., &#8220;congregation&#8221, to a company consisting of professed believers,


Vine, W. E., Unger, M. F., & White, W., Jr. (1996). Vol. 2: Vine&#8217;s Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words (42). Nashville, TN: T. Nelson.

in conclusion:

ekklesia, a gathering of people for any reason for a particular purpose.

1. of all true believers, also known as the body of Christ
2. A gathering together of those PROFESSING to be believers. yet back in the NT as well as today, Not all people who confess to be believers are true believers. there are MANY imposters. As john said, they departed from us from who? they church they claimed to be a part of and professed to believe in, but they WERE NEVER OF US, they were never members of the true body of Christ, but they WERE part of the local church.

keep trying my friend. You may get it one day.

Lol your starting to act a little dorky man. Calm down:

01577:
1577 ekklesia ek-klay-see'-ah from a compound of 1537 and a derivative of 2564; a calling out, i.e. (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both):--assembly, church. see GREEK for 1537 see GREEK for 2564

When applied to the sanctified ones that are members of the church the Lord built (Matt 16:18) even you should realize it's not just a public meeting. It is a people that make up the church, the church is the body of Christ (Eph 5) cmon man, ever read the Bible?

I1. a prodigal son never stopped being the son, he just lost access to being blessed by his father for the time he was away from his fathers house.

That is stupid. So what he never stopped being a son. Is the DNA of a father and son the point of the lesson? Again your focused on the wrong part. What good is a son that is a "Dead" son????? Lol, another pathiec attempt to not accept what is written.

You know. I am SO SICK OF YOU TRYING TO TELL ME WHAT I BELIEVE WHEN YOU ARE CONTINUALLY WRONG IN YOUR ASSUMPTIONS. DON'T YOU GET SICK OF PUTTING YOUR FOOT IN YOUR MOUTH CONTINUALLY??

Okay and this is just immature arguing, what was proved with that?

John says, if we say we have no sin, we decieve ourselves. are you decieved? so if I believe this. how can I believe they will never sin?

You also say at the same time we a Christian cannot sin. So if we cant say we have no sin, and cannot sin, what do you mean??????? See another vauge answer that ran from the question. Again your afriad to answer.

I don;t even need to refute you. all I need to do is let you talk, you refute yourself by spreading lies about what people believe, and ALL THE WORLD SEES IT!

Lol LOl LOl your too funny. Why do you constantly say things like "all the world sees it"???? And "your exposed all can see"?

Yousay this because for you it's all about show. HAVE YOU NOT NOTICED THEIR ARE THE SAME GROUP OF PEOPLE ON HERE YOU ALL BELEIVE THE SAME AND NEVER CHANGE???? THOSE WHO BELIEVE OSAS WILL ALWAYS BELIEVE THIS THOSE WHO DO NOT WILL NOT. NOTHING OR NO ONE HAS CHANGED THEIR VIEW SINCE I HAVE BEEN ON HERE.

SO "ALL THE WORLD CAN SEE" IS NOT REALLY SCARY FOR ME. I AM NOT TRYING TO IMPRESS ANYONE UNLIKE YOU. LOL IF SO FUNNY HOW YOU TRY YOUR HARDEST TO APPEAR RIGHT, AND NO ONE EVEN CARES WHAT YOU OR I AM SAYING. GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE QUIT TRYING TO IMPRESS, AND MAYBE YOULL LEARN SOMETHING. OOOHHHHHH EVERYONE HEARD THAT LOLOLOLOLOLOL

A saved person can not LIVE IN SIN. John makes this clear. But you do not believe John either. And here again you are lieing about what I believe. Guess what my friend. A changed lifestyle is a work which is empowered by God and given to ALL who are born of God.

TOLD YOU. I SAID EXACTLY WHAT YOU WOULD SAY.

I ASKED WHAT DOES IT MEAN? YOU CANT TELL ME. I SAID YOU WOULD JUST SAY ....JOHN SAYS...
AGAIN I KNOW JOHN SAYS, WHAT DOES IT MEAN - STOP BEING SCARED TO ANSWER.

whats to explain? I tell you the gospel. You recieve it. But you never trust it. You just "believe it" with no faith. then, as will happen, You will reject it and turn back to what you believed in the first place. What does this mean> you recieved the word of grace in vein.

1. YOU CANT SIN BECAUSE YOUR NOT ALLOWED TO
2. YOU CANT SIN BECAUSE YOU WILL CHOOSE NOT TO
3. YOU CANT SIN BECAUSE GOD DOES NOT RECONIZE YOUR SINS ANYMORE BECAUSE JESUS DIED FOR THEM.

CANT GET ANYMORE CLEARER THAN THAT. WHICH IS IT? WHY ARE YOU SO AFRAID TO ANSWER THIS QUESITON?

But again you can;t believe this.

BELIEVE WHAT YOU STILL DID NOT ANSWER

It means YOU WILL NOT LIVE AS YOUR FORMER SELF.

GREAT, THAT MEANS REPENTANCE. SO YOUR SAYING ONE WHO DOES LIVE IN SIN, IS NOT SAVED.

SO THEN HOW CAN ONE LIVING IN BE BROUGHT BACK BY GOD IF HE IS/WAS NOT SAVED????????

THE PRODIGAL SON WENT BACK INTO THE WORLD YOU SAID HE WAS NEVER LOST. NOW YOU SAY IF WE DO WE ARE LOST? WHICH IS IT?????

YOU WANT TO GIVE THE SAME EXPLANATION AS STARFEILD GAVE, BUT YOU CANT WITHOUT CONTRAINDICATING YOURSELF WITH OTHER STATEMENTS YOU ALREADY MADE. LOL YOU RIGHT BACK INTO A CORNER NOW. LETS SEE YOU TRY TO GET OUT.

NOT GOING ANY FURUTHER UNTIL YOU START MAKING SOME SENSE. NOT GOING TO OVERLOOK YOUR CONTRATICIONS ANYMORE. WAITING PLEASE CLEAR THIS UP

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No I dont like when people use God's name as an expression. But i guess if you like to nothing I can do.
Lol your in error on purpose? Thanks for telling us. I have said that from the begining.

Oh really. When is the last time your church was stoned, perscuted by Jews and Romans? Whatever dude this is not even a debate anymore.

Lol your starting to act a little dorky man. Calm down:

01577:
1577 ekklesia ek-klay-see'-ah from a compound of 1537 and a derivative of 2564; a calling out, i.e. (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both):--assembly, church. see GREEK for 1537 see GREEK for 2564

When applied to the sanctified ones that are members of the church the Lord built (Matt 16:18) even you should realize it's not just a public meeting. It is a people that make up the church, the church is the body of Christ (Eph 5) cmon man, ever read the Bible?


That is stupid. So what he never stopped being a son. Is the DNA of a father and son the point of the lesson? Again your focused on the wrong part. What good is a son that is a "Dead" son????? Lol, another pathiec attempt to not accept what is written.

Okay and this is just immature arguing, what was proved with that?
You also say at the same time we a Christian cannot sin. So if we cant say we have no sin, and cannot sin, what do you mean??????? See another vauge answer that ran from the question. Again your afriad to answer.
Lol LOl LOl your too funny. Why do you constantly say things like "all the world sees it"???? And "your exposed all can see"?

Yousay this because for you it's all about show. HAVE YOU NOT NOTICED THEIR ARE THE SAME GROUP OF PEOPLE ON HERE YOU ALL BELEIVE THE SAME AND NEVER CHANGE???? THOSE WHO BELIEVE OSAS WILL ALWAYS BELIEVE THIS THOSE WHO DO NOT WILL NOT. NOTHING OR NO ONE HAS CHANGED THEIR VIEW SINCE I HAVE BEEN ON HERE.

SO "ALL THE WORLD CAN SEE" IS NOT REALLY SCARY FOR ME. I AM NOT TRYING TO IMPRESS ANYONE UNLIKE YOU. LOL IF SO FUNNY HOW YOU TRY YOUR HARDEST TO APPEAR RIGHT, AND NO ONE EVEN CARES WHAT YOU OR I AM SAYING. GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE QUIT TRYING TO IMPRESS, AND MAYBE YOULL LEARN SOMETHING. OOOHHHHHH EVERYONE HEARD THAT LOLOLOLOLOLOL

TOLD YOU. I SAID EXACTLY WHAT YOU WOULD SAY.

I ASKED WHAT DOES IT MEAN? YOU CANT TELL ME. I SAID YOU WOULD JUST SAY ....JOHN SAYS...
AGAIN I KNOW JOHN SAYS, WHAT DOES IT MEAN - STOP BEING SCARED TO ANSWER.


1. YOU CANT SIN BECAUSE YOUR NOT ALLOWED TO
2. YOU CANT SIN BECAUSE YOU WILL CHOOSE NOT TO
3. YOU CANT SIN BECAUSE GOD DOES NOT RECONIZE YOUR SINS ANYMORE BECAUSE JESUS DIED FOR THEM.

CANT GET ANYMORE CLEARER THAN THAT. WHICH IS IT? WHY ARE YOU SO AFRAID TO ANSWER THIS QUESITON?
BELIEVE WHAT YOU STILL DID NOT ANSWER



GREAT, THAT MEANS REPENTANCE. SO YOUR SAYING ONE WHO DOES LIVE IN SIN, IS NOT SAVED.

SO THEN HOW CAN ONE LIVING IN BE BROUGHT BACK BY GOD IF HE IS/WAS NOT SAVED????????

THE PRODIGAL SON WENT BACK INTO THE WORLD YOU SAID HE WAS NEVER LOST. NOW YOU SAY IF WE DO WE ARE LOST? WHICH IS IT?????

YOU WANT TO GIVE THE SAME EXPLANATION AS STARFEILD GAVE, BUT YOU CANT WITHOUT CONTRAINDICATING YOURSELF WITH OTHER STATEMENTS YOU ALREADY MADE. LOL YOU RIGHT BACK INTO A CORNER NOW. LETS SEE YOU TRY TO GET OUT.

NOT GOING ANY FURUTHER UNTIL YOU START MAKING SOME SENSE. NOT GOING TO OVERLOOK YOUR CONTRATICIONS ANYMORE. WAITING PLEASE CLEAR THIS UP

Goodby dude, Your a lost cause.,

1. You lie about what people believe, and even when you are shown your lie, you refuse to admit it.

2. You twist scripture and meanings of words around, and demand people take your belief or else they are wrong, It is your way or the highway. no humility whatsoever. Your just like the pharisees, and your to blind to see it.

3. You have been proven wrong on so many accounts, You have been given answers to your questions a hundred times, yet keep asking the same old stupid questions which you have been told over and over the answer to; Your worst than a broken record.

4. I will be in heaven. I have the hope that sustains me. Like many of those like me have, We await our resurection and strive to be more Christlike every day. For you see my salvation is NOT based on how good I am or am not, It is based on the death of Christ. I know I can never be good enough to even come close to earning my salvation. For some reason you think you can and will be good enough to earn yours. well good luck with that.

oh and PS. when another thread opens and youstart propogating your false gospel of works. Expect me to respond. just remember I am not responding to you, I am responding to help people who might buy into you lie. and hoping that through God they can see truth.

 

[feedm3]

Okay see you later again, for like the 5th time.

Everytime I try to ignore you, you provoke thinking I am not responding because you made some brilliant point.

Finally I respond because you accuse me of not being able to answer, I shut you down by showing you cant ever explain what you believe without a contradiction, you run away, leave me alone for awhile, then think you have some other brillant answer and two weeks later your back, and we repeat the same process.

Then you say after I expose you: "bye then i am leaving your a lost cause"...lol how many time do you want to do this?

Maybe when I dont respond, just dont start saying, "see He cant answer he ignored me", and you wont make a fool out of yourself again and again.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Maybe when I dont respond, just dont start saying. see He cant answer he ignored me, and you wont make a fool out of yourself again and again.

Feel free to respond to me. You make my job easier everytime you say I believe something that everyone who reads what I post know I do not believe, And you continue to ask questions which everyone who reads know i have answered a hundred times.

Like I said before, your your own worse enemy

 

[feedm3]

Feel free to respond to me. You make my job easier everytime you say I believe something that everyone who reads what I post know I do not believe, And you continue to ask questions which everyone who reads know i have answered a hundred times.

Like I said before, your your own worse enemy

I know your so right I am. How did I not see it before. Can you point us to those hundreds of answers you speak of, I dont see them anywhere? Thanks for admitting your in error on purpose though, thats the first step, admission.

As for responding to you, as you already seen on this thread, I was trying not to speak with you. You asked for it, you got it. Now go hide.

 

[Red33]

"Does not sin" means whoever says they are born of God cannot live in continual sin as if they were unsaved. A person that is born of God with a new nature will continually choose to submit to God because they have overcome the world. However it does not mean there is no possibility of going back to the old nature because the mortal body is still present and susceptible to the pull of sin. Romans 7:19- For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do-the flesh is at war with the spirit.

If a believers doesn't care and goes out and lives in sin, God will chastise that believer just as sure as you are breathing. If they don't respond to God's chastening, which can come in many forms and go on for a long period of time because God is longsuffering, then the Lord will scourge that believer. This is when the believer comes very close to death to shake up the believer a put a healthy fear of God in them because of their rebellion and obstinate heart. If the believer doesn't humble himself under the mighty hand of God, God may take the believer through the sin unto physical death and it would be without dying grace. In other words, not a peaceful death or one that glorifies God through suffering, but rather one that God has to execute to get them out of the way, especially if they are effecting others through slander or maligning with the tongue. The believer can live in sin but God does not give them grace to do so and will eventually terminate their life and they will suffer the loss of all rewards at the judgment (bema) seat of Christ. They will be ashamed at Christ coming in the same way Adam and the women sewed fig leaves being naked (or ashamed) when the presence of the Lord came to speak to them.

 

[starfield]

If a believers doesn't care and goes out and lives in sin, God will chastise that believer just as sure as you are breathing. If they don't respond to God's chastening, which can come in many forms and go on for a long period of time because God is longsuffering, then the Lord will scourge that believer. This is when the believer comes very close to death to shake up the believer a put a healthy fear of God in them because of their rebellion and obstinate heart. If the believer doesn't humble himself under the mighty hand of God, God may take the believer through the sin unto physical death and it would be without dying grace. In other words, not a peaceful death or one that glorifies God through suffering, but rather one that God has to execute to get them out of the way, especially if they are effecting others through slander or maligning with the tongue. The believer can live in sin but God does not give them grace to do so and will eventually terminate their life and they will suffer the loss of all rewards at the judgment (bema) seat of Christ. They will be ashamed at Christ coming in the same way Adam and the women sewed fig leaves being naked (or ashamed) when the presence of the Lord came to speak to them.

How does one know when God is chastening them and that it's not just an attack from the devil? Is God's chastening always in the manner you pointed out? Couldn't it be just through conviction in the heart? Are they still saved while all those things are happening? Some people who turn away from God still live in splendor not trials, you know?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

How does one know when God is chastening them and that it's not just an attack from the devil? Is God's chastening always in the manner you pointed out? Couldn't it be just through conviction in the heart? Are they still saved while all those things are happening? Some people who turn away from God still live in splendor not trials, you know?

If you have been chastened by God, you know.

We also know this,

Hebrews 12:8
But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons.

 

[Red33]

How does one know when God is chastening them and that it's not just an attack from the devil? Is God's chastening always in the manner you pointed out? Couldn't it be just through conviction in the heart? Are they still saved while all those things are happening? Some people who turn away from God still live in splendor not trials, you know?

Things in life become frustrating and difficult for the believer because there is no grace for the believer to remain in their sin or in the disposition of their heart that is is in rebellion. God's blessing has been removed temporarily, there is no fellowship with other believers and the soul of the believer is void of edification. That is part of what can happen under discipline.

 

[starfield]

If you have been chastened by God, you know.

We also know this,

Hebrews 12:8
But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons.

If it possible for someone who was once saved to live in such a way (sinful) that is requires chastening, isn't it contradicting to say that once saved there is no possibility of falling away or renouncing the faith? Also, if the believer does not take heed to this chastening to acknowledge their sins and ask for forgiveness, are they still redeemed by the blood of Christ? If they die in that state are they still candidates for eternal life? Will God overlook the unforgiven sins just because they once professed to be saved (assuming the grace of God atone unconfessed sins) and grant them Heavenly inheritance?
Proverbs 28:13-He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.
Please I want frank responses.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If it possible for someone who was once saved to live in such a way (sinful) that is requires chastening, isn't it contradicting to say that once saved there is no possibility of falling away or renouncing the faith?

I am sorry but this does not make any sense. Is it possible for a child to live in a way he needs chastened by his earthly parents? Does that mean it is possible for that child to stop being his father's son or daughter? Does not our heavenly Father say he can love far greater than any earthly father? and if this is so. How could our heavenly father possibly kick us out of his family because of something we have done?

Remember, before we were saved, we could do NO GOOD. there was no possibility of doing any righteous deed. So if our heavenly father adopted us even though we have done zero good. How much bad could we do after that would make us worst than when we were saved before.

as for faith. Again as I have said before. Before you can come to faith, you have to acknowledge your condition (totally unrighteous, totally guilty before God, and totally deserving of eternal judgment) if we come to this point in our life. how could we EVER lose faith? Our faith might diminish in times, but how could it ever go away, and how much faith does God say we need? Ever see a mustard seed? not to mention. remember when the disciples could not heal a man's son. What did he say? help me in my lack of faith? did Jesus help him?

finally renouncing faith, or no longer beliving in Christ period. Well that would make you an antichrist. As I have shown many times, John answers this in his first epistle and second chapter. These peopel were never saved. They never had a faith to lose. for as John said, "if they were of us (had true faith) they NEVER WOULD HAVE LEFT!"

Also, if the believer does not take heed to this chastening to acknowledge their sins and ask for forgiveness, are they still redeemed by the blood of Christ?

If you sinned against your earthly father, And are caught red handed, yet still do not think you did wrong. Are you still your fathers son or daughter, or have you lost the priviledge of being your fathers child? Again, Our God says his love far surpasses that of our earthly father. so if our earthly father would not disown us because of his deep seeded love for us, why would our heavenly father desert us?

If they die in that state are they still candidates for eternal life?

If we are under law. then the answer would be no. But we are not under law, but under grace. Ask yourself this. If every minute of every day of our life we are undeserving of eternal life. (which is what God says) then how could we ever earn eternal life by being good enough, or repenting enough, or any thing else? we can't. Those who say they can do not know God. and are trusting themselves, and not Christ, to save them.

Will God overlook the unforgiven sins just because they once professed to be saved (assuming the grace of God atone unconfessed sins) and grant them Heavenly inheritance?

What does god say? all manner of sin WILL be forgiven men. It does not say it might be forgiven, or might not. No one will go to hell because of person sin. They will go to hell because of one sin, They rejected Christ. They have commmited the UNPARDONABLE SIN.

Again I ask. what makes you more righteous than the person next to you? because yu may not commit sins YOU deem are horrendous and unforgivable without you paying God back somehow? Well James said if we commit the least of ALL sin, we are as guilty as if we broke the most of all sin (the whole law)

Again, thinking you could ever be good enough to earn salvation is an error of satan, he uses this thought of our flesh to keep us from the true faith of God. it is why the pharisees rejected Christ, and why so many people today will never see God.

 

[starfield]

I am sorry but this does not make any sense. Is it possible for a child to live in a way he needs chastened by his earthly parents? Does that mean it is possible for that child to stop being his father's son or daughter? Does not our heavenly Father say he can love far greater than any earthly father? and if this is so. How could our heavenly father possibly kick us out of his family because of something we have done?

What baffles me is that you said "A saved person CAN NOT LIVE IN SIN. so how can a saved person, who is living in sin, which he can't do anyway, be brought back? From what?" in your previous post and now you're talking about chastening. If someone is saved, pure, perfect, sinless forever, why would they need chastening? Or maybe we are defining the word "saved" differently. If one lives in sin and they are still saved, how are they saved or what are they saved from?

Remember, before we were saved, we could do NO GOOD. there was no possibility of doing any righteous deed. So if our heavenly father adopted us even though we have done zero good. How much bad could we do after that would make us worst than when we were saved before.

as for faith. Again as I have said before. Before you can come to faith, you have to acknowledge your condition (totally unrighteous, totally guilty before God, and totally deserving of eternal judgment) if we come to this point in our life. how could we EVER lose faith? Our faith might diminish in times, but how could it ever go away, and how much faith does God say we need? Ever see a mustard seed? not to mention. remember when the disciples could not heal a man's son. What did he say? help me in my lack of faith? did Jesus help him?

finally renouncing faith, or no longer beliving in Christ period. Well that would make you an antichrist. As I have shown many times, John answers this in his first epistle and second chapter. These peopel were never saved. They never had a faith to lose. for as John said, "if they were of us (had true faith) they NEVER WOULD HAVE LEFT!"



If you sinned against your earthly father, And are caught red handed, yet still do not think you did wrong. Are you still your fathers son or daughter, or have you lost the priviledge of being your fathers child? Again, Our God says his love far surpasses that of our earthly father. so if our earthly father would not disown us because of his deep seeded love for us, why would our heavenly father desert us?



If we are under law. then the answer would be no. But we are not under law, but under grace. Ask yourself this. If every minute of every day of our life we are undeserving of eternal life. (which is what God says) then how could we ever earn eternal life by being good enough, or repenting enough, or any thing else? we can't. Those who say they can do not know God. and are trusting themselves, and not Christ, to save them.



What does god say? all manner of sin WILL be forgiven men. It does not say it might be forgiven, or might not. No one will go to hell because of person sin. They will go to hell because of one sin, They rejected Christ. They have commmited the UNPARDONABLE SIN.

Again I ask. what makes you more righteous than the person next to you? because yu may not commit sins YOU deem are horrendous and unforgivable without you paying God back somehow? Well James said if we commit the least of ALL sin, we are as guilty as if we broke the most of all sin (the whole law)

Again, thinking you could ever be good enough to earn salvation is an error of satan, he uses this thought of our flesh to keep us from the true faith of God. it is why the pharisees rejected Christ, and why so many people today will never see God.

I am not saying that we earn salvation or are saved by works, if you say you are saved your life should radiate the light of true believer. Sin cannot enter the presence of God; He is coming for a pure Church. One cannot get to Heaven with an unrepented sin. God is merciful and just.

You did not answer my question about the fate of those who fail to respond to chastening.

Yes, salvation is granted by good deeds, we are saved by grace through faith but the bible also says we will be judged by our works not faith, so we have our part to play. Revelation 20:12-And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 2 Corinthians 5:10-For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. So if you have received that salvation, let your light shine. Religiosity, charitable deeds, or even holding the title of child of God is not the way to Heaven--a saved life will show genuine fruits of repentance. By their fruits you will know them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What baffles me is that you said "A saved person CAN NOT LIVE IN SIN. so how can a saved person, who is living in sin, which he can't do anyway, be brought back? From what?" in your previous post and now you're talking about chastening. If someone is saved, pure, perfect, sinless forever, why would they need chastening? Or maybe we are defining the word "saved" differently. If one lives in sin and they are still saved, how are they saved or what are they saved from?

Living in sin is living as the world lives. Paul and John both said we can not do this because we have the spirit of God in us. so what is your question?

what are we saved from? We are saved from the PENALTY of sin. if we are still under the penalty of sin, we are not saved.

I am not saying that we earn salvation or are saved by works, if you say you are saved your life should radiate the light of true believer. Sin cannot enter the presence of God; He is coming for a pure Church. One cannot get to Heaven with an unrepented sin. God is merciful and just.

If your saved, your sin is cast as far as the east is from the west. As paul said, your body (which still sins) is dead, but your spirit is alive, why? we have been justified by the blood of Christ. You will not be sinless in this lifetime. and it is impossible to know every sin you commit. so in your senerio, no one would or could be saved. Plus, you say your not teaching works. But your saying we must make up for each sin, or it is unforgiven. this is work. this is law.

You did not answer my question about the fate of those who fail to respond to chastening.

what happens to a child who fails to respond to his parents chastening and coninues to do the thing they are being chastened for? does the chastening not get more severe? I will tell you, However, someone may die before they return to Christ, this is probably the last aspect of Gods chastening. "for this reason many sleep"

Yes, salvation is granted by good deeds, we are saved by grace through faith but the bible also says we will be judged by our works not faith, so we have our part to play.

1. No salvation is not by good deeds, if it is it is not of grace it is of works. You are contradicting yourself. You at first claim not to be teaching a gospel of works. Now you are telling me I have to work to earn salvation. which is it?

Paul makes it clear. NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (good deeds) WhICH WE HAVE DONE,, but HE (God) SAVED US by the WASHING and RENEWING of the HOLY SPIRIT.

2, We will not be judged by our works if we are saved, However, those who are saved will be rewarded for their work. Gold silver precious stine, wood hey and straw. But even some may get no reward. yet still be saved even though as by fire.

3. A non believer WILL be judged by their works. And found guilty because they rejected the only thing that could save them, The blood of Christ. They will fall and be condemned, because when ALL their works were added up. They still fell short of the glory of God.

Revelation 20:12-And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

2 Corinthians 5:10-For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. So if you have received that salvation, let your light shine. Religiosity, charitable deeds, or even holding the title of child of God is not the way to Heaven--a saved life will show genuine fruits of repentance. By their fruits you will know them.

The great white throne is for non believers only. Who is at this judgment? Death and hades were DELIVERED to CHRIST for JUDGMENT.

A belioeve is not delivered to Christ. He is not dead, he is alive in Christ. And his judgment has already been paid by the blood of Christ. this is what atonement means.

 

[feedm3]

Lol star your never going to get an answer on that.

He is saying we are not saved by works but if we don't do them we are not saved - a paradox.

He says a Christian "cannot live in sin" (John says) but he wont ever clarify what that means.

He says a Christian cannot live the way he was before he was a Christian. So what if one does?

He will be brought back he says, and then says "But one who lives in sin shows he was never saved" - and your right back in a contraindication that he will never be able to get out of.

How can one be in sin if he cannot sin?
How can one be brought back by God's chastisement if by living in sin he shows he was never saved?
How can one be lost becuase he had no works, yet he is not saved because he did have works? Paradox.

So get ready for a long ride man.

EG I will say we are saved by God's grace + our obedience to Him.
Obedience is not a work, it is a duty we all are expected to perform:

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man

Luke 17:10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do

Luke 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did(that would be works, somthig you MUST DO) according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more

Star you asked what if he the servant who lives in sin does not heed the waring and he dies in that state, is he in danger of hell. Here is the answer for that:

Luke 12:43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers

This servant believed he had a Lord, and lived in sin because he did not think His Lord's return was imminent.

So what happened? Was he not judged Eternally for it EG? YEs he was, he received the same fate as an unbeliever.

Why? because he lived like an unbeliever.

EG's fantasies are not biblical, he thinks we can live as in sin, and not be "Dead" like the prodigal son (yes he was still his fathers son lol) and not receive the same fate as this unfaithful servant, and "never be judged eternally for our sins" even though this man was. He feels he is above these men the Lord mentioned.

He refused to let the Bible speak because if offends him and his doctrine. Too many warnings you have to run from and change to mean something else eg, these are so plain and child can get them.

Star your reasoning is right, that's why you can see right through these contradictions. Keep letting the Bible speak.

 

[feedm3]

Are you serious, you really have gone too far in your scripture twisting. this is so plain you could run by it and read it and understand lol. I cant believe you even used I Cor 5, you proved yourself wrong with that one.

Revelation 20:12-And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
2 Corinthians 5:10- For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Rev. This is about the great Judment up ALL who are ressurected. ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS

Death and Hell were cast into the Lake of Fire AFTER the judgment, as they were judged worthy of it.

This shows at the judment, many will be cast into the lake of fire. Lol I cant believe you even said this.

So now Rev 14 doesnt mean what it says either.

2 COr 5:10 "WE must ALL" again we self inclusive, meaning all including Christians must stand and give an acount for the works done in our bodies GOOD or BAD.

No point in this if we cannot be judged by our works, what the point of the passage then.
why does he say "it is a fearful thing", what is fearful about a judgment on works that cant happen?

The great white throne is for non believers only. Who is at this judgment? Death and hades were DELIVERED to CHRIST for JUDGMENT.

ALL are at the Judement, the great white throne is Christ's "throne of glory" to separte the Sheep from goats:

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats

Well both present at this judment, righteous and wicked. Some receive a reward, others eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angles (lake of fire!). Your telling me this is not a parallel to Rev 20? This is pathetic, if you really believe that then you lack basic Bible understanding.

THere is no end to how far you will go to twist the meanign of plain words. Why would anyone want to bleieve something that forces you to go that far agains plain written words. Dude I hope you arent fooled into the thinking that if you pretend to be sincere God will overlook your willfull ignorace, that is doing nothing but promoting false doctrine. You need to fear God, seriously, read what he thinks about false doctrine - He hates it.