The Fixed Earth

[Cup-of-Ruin]

I don't mean to sound rude, but what exactly are you trying to say?

No offence, I think it would be in the best interests of the thread if you went elsewhere, there are lots of other forums on this site....doesn't matter...look -the blue dot is the earth and the yellow dot is the sun and the red dot is mars, you will notice how the blue dot is stationary and the yellow dot revolves around it, that is called a 'Geocentric system', God's universe, the one that you and I inhabit is a Geocentric universe, the Earth is the centre of the universe. Those pretty little colourful pictures you see in magazines and stuff of galaxies in outer space, well they are fake, NASA is fake, they just make it up, they steal money (taxes) to construt a false reality, an illusion, like a hollywood movie, the images are all simulated, none of it is real, it's all an illusion kid.

 

[Grimaldus]

Yes, I understood the diagram, but what's your point? Second, please refrain from using such a condescending tone, if you are trying to prove a point and make me want to understand you, you're not doing a very good job. So what sets you apart from all the other people who say NASA is a lie like the flat earth society and such?

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

Yes, I understood the diagram, but what's your point? Second, please refrain from using such a condescending tone, if you are trying to prove a point and make me want to understand you, you're not doing a very good job. So what sets you apart from all the other people who say NASA is a lie like the flat earth society and such?

The Earth is not flat, it is spherical. I don't want to make you do anything, I have no interest whether you understand me or not, and I am not performing a job for you and neither should I be expected to perform for you a service or prove anything for you. I am merely presenting the truth of Scripture as a Christian, how you take that truth is entirely up to you.

 

[Astronut]

Malachi 4:2 "But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings." If the Sun is not moving and risng than the Son has not risen.

BS. By the same logic when I say I saw the sun rise today I must be a geocentrist... I'm not and neither is God.

 

[Astronut]

Oh dear me, go back and read the thread again.

You first, as I pointed out to you already the rotation of the earth is a vital factor in determining the delta V needed to reach orbit. He's right; if the earth weren't rotating our attempts to launch low earth orbit satellites would have fallen short of any orbit at all.

Have you ever seen star trails? Hove you ever studied the night's sky? the North star?

How does that prove anything? I've studied all of the above in far greater detail than you have.

The Earth is the centre of the universe! Space the ether revolves, all of it revolves around the centre of which Earth, this Earth is the centre, that is why outside of Earth's protective atmosphere orbit is found,

Orbit is found? WTH does that mean?

according to 'gravity' theory, an aluminium can in space must go towards the sun whether under Newtonian or Einsteinian physics, but it does not,

Wrong. The sun's gravity is about 1/1600th of the earth's at the distance of 1AU from the sun and just a few hundred kilometers from the earth. Furthermore, the earth and everything on it is already in orbit of the sun, therefore everything in earth orbit is also orbiting the sun.

Gravity does not explain orbit, orbit completely destroys any gravity theory.

Gravity explains orbits perfectly:
http://orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/

 

[Astronut]

Satan is sitting back at the moment and laughing his hornes off coz he has just succeeded in creating confusion among christians and now you are debating this unknown theory... Who the hell cares people, really?

I care. If earth isn't rotating then that must mean I've been perpetrating a hoax by forging images of spacecraft - something I've been accused of on multiple occasions by people who believe this theory. Cup o' Ruin here accused me of perpetrating "fake" images earlier himself. I care because these accusations call into question my honesty.

 

[Astronut]

Those pretty little colourful pictures you see in magazines and stuff of galaxies in outer space, well they are fake, NASA is fake, they just make it up, they steal money (taxes) to construt a false reality, an illusion, like a hollywood movie, the images are all simulated, none of it is real, it's all an illusion kid.

To goofy: This is the kind of nonsense I was talking about. To Cup: they're not "simulated" images - I've taken images of distant galaxies myself:
http://speur.tripod.com/astropics/index.album/ngc-891?i=50&s=1
http://speur.tripod.com/astropics/index.album/m64?i=39&s=1
Nasa isn't fake either, I've seen the space station and space shuttle in orbit for myself and I have the pictures to prove it:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3034/2364205053_6a53e86e58_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2154/2110105639_493fe9b3ee_o.jpg
Your theory is wrong and your accusations are false.

 

[missy2shoes]

but would you argue with a wall???.....why argue with someone who won't listen?

 

[Astronut]

but would you argue with a wall???.....why argue with someone who won't listen?

Well I hope he eventually listens. If not, then I will learn every angle of attack he tries to use and figure out the best way to counter it with an explanation or evidence. That way, the next time I encounter someone somewhere else who has similiar beliefs I'll already be prepared and equipped to defend my work, especially if they've been getting their arguments from the same sources.

 

[Slepsog4]

The earth is not the literal (physical) center of our own solar system. How close or far from the actual center of the universe its is matters not.

The earth and mankind are the center of God's attention redemptively. It would appear that the universe exists for our benefit, kind of like a back drop.

 

[MahogonySnail]

If the bible was written according to a geocentric model, not because it was true or fact, but because it was a common model of the time, that explains why the bible uses a geocentric model. All observations indicated that everything went around the earth. That was until they had sensitive enough equipment to notice slight changes in starlight for example and got them thinking that this geocentric model may not be fact afterall.

We shouldn't be using the bible to give us our scientific worldview, that is not its purpose. Just as we shouldn't use any book from ancient mythology like Egyptian, Mayan, Chinese or whatever.

 

[Slepsog4]

Hebrew is a phenomenalogical language. It speaks as things appear to be by mere observance.

From the human vantage point of having one's foot on the ground, the sun appears to move. Even though we know the earth is rotating on its axis, we still use such phrases as sunrise and sunset.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

If the bible was written according to a geocentric model, not because it was true or fact, but because it was a common model of the time, that explains why the bible uses a geocentric model.

I will answer 'Snail first because he is a wolf in sheep's clothing and the most dangerous of the lot.

See how 'Snail correctly states that the Bible supports a Geocentric model, but that the Bible does not state this because it is true or fact (subtle way of saying the Bible is not telling the truth and is non-factual), but because it was a 'common model' of the time, so here we have 'Snail, an insignificant member of cyberspace not only denouncing the Holy Bible as 'common' but that the contents are non-factual and untrue, and Enoch, Noah and Moses and, Solomon and David and all the great prophets and Christ and the Apostles and the Lord Most High Himself were just ignorant and backward and had no idea what they were talking about, and what 'Snail is getting at is undermining the truth of the Bible and he does it in a subtle way, but his intention is clear, but it is his ways that are common.

All observations indicated that everything went around the earth

.

And all observation and physical experiment still suggest the same.

We shouldn't be using the bible to give us our scientific worldview,

As a Christian I can honestly say in all certainty, that the Bible is the most scientifically accurate book ever written.

that is not its purpose. Just as we shouldn't use any book from ancient mythology like Egyptian, Mayan, Chinese or whatever.

WOW, look at this, it does not entirely suprise that you would commit to the written word a statement such as this, oh dear me, boy are you going to have interesting Judgement. This is just absolute blasphemy, but no doubt you get away with this all the time, but not this time 'Snail. Here you compare the Holy word of God to 'ancient mythology' mignt as well be 'chinese or whatever' when it comes to science, well the Bibnle contains alot of science and in fact an entire universal model and cosmolgy, and this you call 'ancient mytholgy' no better than 'Chinese or Egyptian or whatever', That is is just plain out denouncing and denying that the Bible is true and basically you say it no better then any other paganism.

You really are a slimy ol 'Snail,,,,'Snail.

 

[Grimaldus]

I will answer 'Snail first because he is a wolf in sheep's clothing and the most dangerous of the lot.

See how 'Snail correctly states that the Bible supports a Geocentric model, but that the Bible does not state this because it is true or fact (subtle way of saying the Bible is not telling the truth and is non-factual), but because it was a 'common model' of the time, so here we have 'Snail, an insignificant member of cyberspace not only denouncing the Holy Bible as 'common' but that the contents are non-factual and untrue, and Enoch, Noah and Moses and, Solomon and David and all the great prophets and Christ and the Apostles and the Lord Most High Himself were just ignorant and backward and had no idea what they were talking about, and what 'Snail is getting at is undermining the truth of the Bible and he does it in a subtle way, but his intention is clear, but it is his ways that are common.



.

And all observation and physical experiment still suggest the same.




As a Christian I can honestly say in all certainty, that the Bible is the most scientifically accurate book ever written.



WOW, look at this, it does not entirely suprise that you would commit to the written word a statement such as this, oh dear me, boy are you going to have interesting Judgement. This is just absolute blasphemy, but no doubt you get away with this all the time, but not this time 'Snail. Here you compare the Holy word of God to 'ancient mythology' mignt as well be 'chinese or whatever' when it comes to science, well the Bibnle contains alot of science and in fact an entire universal model and cosmolgy, and this you call 'ancient mytholgy' no better than 'Chinese or Egyptian or whatever', That is is just plain out denouncing and denying that the Bible is true and basically you say it no better then any other paganism.

You really are a slimy ol 'Snail,,,,'Snail.

I think what he meant was the bible deals in matters of faith rather than science. Thus the whole "seperation of church and state". (please correct me if I misunderstood)

 

[MahogonySnail]

I will answer 'Snail first because he is a wolf in sheep's clothing and the most dangerous of the lot.

Yes I am (according toyou), because i propagate this dangerous gravity theory of Newton. I'm so dangerous, I might just be right!

See how 'Snail correctly states that the Bible supports a Geocentric model, but that the Bible does not state this because it is true or fact (subtle way of saying the Bible is not telling the truth and is non-factual),

Simply, the bible is not factual on alleged scientific matters when the authors have clearly borrowed from egyptian or babylonian mythology and the "state of the art" of science at their time.

but because it was a 'common model' of the time, so here we have 'Snail, an insignificant member of cyberspace not only denouncing the Holy Bible as 'common' but that the contents are non-factual and untrue, and Enoch, Noah and Moses and, Solomon and David and all the great prophets and Christ and the Apostles and the Lord Most High Himself were just ignorant and backward and had no idea what they were talking about, and what 'Snail is getting at is undermining the truth of the Bible and he does it in a subtle way, but his intention is clear, but it is his ways that are common.

If you can point us to the verse where Jesus declared a geocentric earth model to His disciples in all his scientific importance, please do.

In your quest for scientific knowledge, have you progressed past the cornflour and water experiment yet? If you add food colouring, you can make pretty colours. Have fun.

As a Christian I can honestly say in all certainty, that the Bible is the most scientifically accurate book ever written.

No, you say that as a buffoon, not as a Christian. I am surprised though that you don't think the earth is flat and square shaped, afterall the bible does say the earth has FOUR corners:

Isa 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

And it cannot mean corners created by dicing a sphere, because this would have more than 4 corners, and spheres don't have corners.

WOW, look at this, it does not entirely suprise that you would commit to the written word a statement such as this, oh dear me, boy are you going to have interesting Judgement.

And I'm glad it is God doing the judging, not you Einstein.

This is just absolute blasphemy, but no doubt you get away with this all the time, but not this time 'Snail. Here you compare the Holy word of God to 'ancient mythology' mignt as well be 'chinese or whatever' when it comes to science

In certain respects, yes, and only a fool would take a spiritual book, and construct his scientific worldview from it in spite of clear scientific evidence against it. The descriptions in the bible of the earth, with firmanents above and below, all borrow from the dome-shaped model of the earth as per their contemporaries.

, well the Bibnle contains alot of science and in fact an entire universal model and cosmolgy,

Well, yes it does, it contains the universal model and cosmology of what was the best scientific knowledge available at the time. Which has been shown wrong ever since Newton, Galileo etc. Actually, you should know that the geocentric model came from the greeks, notably Aristotle, Ptolemy. I doubt you would have been able to construct a geocentric earth model based on the bible alone, it is not so detailed or clear. You have borrowed extensively from greek philosophy and elsewhere in your geocentric world view. Aristotle, Ptolemy, even the ancient Chinese. You are fooling us and pretending that you get your knowledge from the bible which is not the case. You have interpreted the bible in light of greek philosophy I'm afraid, i.e. post-fact. When the model the bible gives is more of a flat-earth, dome-hemisphere shaped model of the earth. Yet we should not confuse the bible's literal statements with its metaphorical intentions. All your verses you quote that say "the earth is established and shall not be moved", do not mean that literally, they mean God's plans and purposes will come to pass and will not fail. And in missing the true meaning of these passages, you are wrong.

and this you call 'ancient mytholgy' no better than 'Chinese or Egyptian or whatever', That is is just plain out denouncing and denying that the Bible is true and basically you say it no better then any other paganism.

If we take any book out of its intended purpose and context, as a book for spiritual living and spiritual guide, we miss its purpose altogether. God did not give us a bible to reveal the scientific secrets of the universe. And the authors of the scripture in either OT or NT were not somehow shielded from the contemparary scientific world views around them. Whether they be Egyptian, Babylonian or Greek or otherwise.

 

[Slepsog4]

The Bible is inspired of God in every detail. Whatever subject that God addresses no matter how minor is factually accurate. This does not mean that it is always readily understood. We must consider the purpose of all statements. We must also recognize that Hebrew is a language based on observation. It is not as inclined as Greek to be scientifically precise. For instance Genesis speaks of Kinds; modern science divides animals much more precise (genus, species, family, etc.).

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

Simply, the bible is not factual on alleged scientific matters when the authors have clearly borrowed from egyptian or babylonian mythology and the "state of the art" of science at their time.

I think you are make yourself quite clear, you don't believe the Bible to be factual and you say that the Prophets and Apostles have 'borrowed' from Egyptian and Babylonian mythology! Spoken like a true pagan 'Snail.

If you can point us to the verse where Jesus declared a geocentric earth model to His disciples in all his scientific importance, please do.

But you just said the Bible is non-scientific and non-factual and borrowed from pagan mythology, see how you condecendingly say about our Lord "in all his scientific importance" that is dorogatory, you 'Snail are a nasty little devil aren't you, showing your true colours now,.

No, you say that as a buffoon, not as a Christian. I am surprised though that you don't think the earth is flat and square shaped, afterall the bible does say the earth has FOUR corners:

That is lie 'Snail, a false accusation...you bear false witness against me, I along with the Bible state that the world is spherical, but you do lie and say that the Bible and I say that the world is flat, that is lie, which makes you a liar.

Isa 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance:

#3670 Kanaph kaw-nawf ; an edge or extremity,a wing, a flap, a quarter,a pinnacle, corner, end; - uttermost part.

Christians know exactly what the Bible says, you are bearing false witness against God's word, you are accusing God of stating that the Earth is flat and that He is lying, that is not what the Bible says, what the Bible says is quite clear, anybody with the Spirit can understand perfectly well what Isaiah is saying.

And it cannot mean corners created by dicing a sphere, because this would have more than 4 corners, and spheres don't have corners.

from the ends of the earth, from the four quarters of the earth, from the pinnicles of the earth, from the earth's extremities,, the outer wings of the earth, the Earth uttermost parts!

Jer. 49:22 "Behold, he shall come up and fly as the eagle, and spread his wings [#3671 kanaph]"

Isa. 24:16 "From the uttermost part [#3671 Kanaph] of the earth"

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

I think what he meant was the bible deals in matters of faith rather than science. Thus the whole "seperation of church and state". (please correct me if I misunderstood)

So you propose a secular state, what about the satanic atheist beast system we have now, yes you are misunderstood, how should we pray? "Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven" If you do not believe in a literal kingdom of God that is coming to Earth and if you do not believe that God literally came in the flesh and literally gave in His own divine blood, to establish a literal covenant and a literal kingdom of God on Earth, then you do not truly believe! if you do not believe in the Kingdom coming to Earth where there is no seperation of secular state and the church of God because christ rules over all then you are not a Christian, kid... simple as that.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

Hebrew is a phenomenalogical language. It speaks as things appear to be by mere observance.

From the human vantage point of having one's foot on the ground, the sun appears to move. Even though we know the earth is rotating on its axis, we still use such phrases as sunrise and sunset.

The sun moves, it rises and sets and runs it's course, just like scripture tell us, just like God says, and that is what I see with my own eyes. 'Slepsog' don't take it from me, why don't you investigate all pyhsical tests that have ever been done and they all prove a non-moving earth, unless you would prefer a fake experiment, a rigged one, the Jesuits had a fake one, called it 'focault's Pendulem', they have a great big one at UN headquaters today, any scientist worth his salt will tell you that the Pendulem is rigged, why dont you do a pendulem experiment yourself? Or just observe all the clocks ticking or all the other pendulems on earth, observe how they move, or you can take the Jesuits word and the atheists at the UN over the word of God, it's up to you.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

but would you argue with a wall???.....why argue with someone who won't listen?

But this wall quotes holy scripture 'missy2shoes'!