Where is America in Bible Prophecy?
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L
Laodicea
Guest
Yes and this is what Jesus said to them
Matthew 21:43-45 KJV
(43) Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
(44) And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
(45) And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
If you don'then it's time to work harder. We are the change. Not Obama, Not Government, WE THE PEOPLE ..
Thats fine, I was talking more to the people that stretch scripture anyway possible to shove america into end time events. Mostly because they cant fathom a worldwide event happening like that with america not being the center because they have over-inflated ideas of us as a country
You actually made a pretty good point here. Yes, we do h ave governing authorities, and laws are put in place for the people. Yet, is it the authorities that pervert the law or the people?
I can think of many examples where rights and laws wer put in place yet the American people took advantage of them. Then it became a downhill slope.
Not sayinng the government is innocent, but maybe one day our leaders will learn that you can't fix stupid.
very good! and when did the Lord take the kingdom away from them? and who is the new nation? clue 1Peter 2:9 and Galations 3:38
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If you will stay with a true capitalist society it will fix stuck on stupid. You want a safety net for people..
naut -- are you still crying? I have never seen anyone that hates his own country like you, but under Obama you are a hero and I'm a terrorist.
Jerusalem/Israel did indeed sit on the scarlet beast, until her ego got too big and she rebelled against Rome. Jerusalem/Israel was the only city that the Roman army did not conquer until 70AD. Jerusalem for a long time enjoyed the protection Rome and freedom to carry on its own sacrifices, holidays and worship practices in the middle of a Roman empire Caesar cult where the emperors demanded worship from everyone else.
The name Babylon in itself is a code name for Israel. Babylon has two meanings, 1. Gateway to God, and Confusion. Israel was meant to be the Gateway of God to the world, but failed. And Israel became confused in following who her true God was and was confused over who their messiah was.
I'm sorry you can't see this EG, so we'll just have to agree to disagree, but history in the bible and external history proves my point that Israel skated along in the Roman empire, used Roman currency, under Roman control, however had many freedoms too. It went Jerusalem didn't want to pay her taxes to Rome is when the emperor stated to hate her, add to that they didn't worship the beast, Nero individually and Roman empire corporately.
2. How does America or a religious fit this description of being divided into 3 parts?
Revelation 16:19, Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath.
your response was;
Jerusalem was the head or capital of Israel, therefore Jerusalem represents all of Israel.
Israel sure does fit this, 1 of 3 ways, or maybe even 4.
1) Judgement 1/3 will killed by fire, 1/3 will be killed by the sword, 1/3 will be scattered abroad. Read Ezekiel 5:1-12
A Sword Against Jerusalem
5 “And you, son of man, take a sharp sword, take it as a barber’s razor, and pass it over your head and your beard; then take scales to weigh and divide the hair. 2 You shall burn with fire one-third in the midst of the city, when the days of the siege are finished; then you shall take one-third and strike around it with the sword, and one-third you shall scatter in the wind: I will draw out a sword after them. 3 You shall also take a small number of them and bind them in the edge of your garment. 4 Then take some of them again and throw them into the midst of the fire, and burn them in the fire. From there a fire will go out into all the house of Israel.
2) Jerusalem was divided into 3 geographical parts: a. The upper city was walled off, where the wealthy lived, b. The lower city was walled off, where the middle income and poor lived, and c. The temple area was walled off from the rest of the city.
3) They where divided into 3 political parties, a. John Levi of Giscala, leader of the Galileans, b. Simeon, Leader of the Idumeans , and c. Eleazar, leader of the zealots. These 3 parties where possibly more responsible for more deaths in Jerusalem then the Roman army, and according to Josephus the historian they were.
(God just revealed this to me) Maybe the 4th way to divide them is religiously, Scribes, Pharisees and Priests or Religious Leaders in general.
Matthew 27:41-42,
41 Likewise the chief priests (1) also, mocking with the scribes(2) and elders(3), said, 42 “He saved others; Himself He cannot save. If He is the King of Israel, let Him now come down from the cross, and we will believe Him.
I believe I have just demonstrated that Jerusalem/Israel was divided 3 ways in 4 categories. Again, you can disagree, but I don't know how. You can not tell me how your future religious system will be divided 3 ways and you never did answer that question.
Revelation 16:19, Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath.
your response was;
Jerusalem was the head or capital of Israel, therefore Jerusalem represents all of Israel.
Israel sure does fit this, 1 of 3 ways, or maybe even 4.
1) Judgement 1/3 will killed by fire, 1/3 will be killed by the sword, 1/3 will be scattered abroad. Read Ezekiel 5:1-12
A Sword Against Jerusalem
5 “And you, son of man, take a sharp sword, take it as a barber’s razor, and pass it over your head and your beard; then take scales to weigh and divide the hair. 2 You shall burn with fire one-third in the midst of the city, when the days of the siege are finished; then you shall take one-third and strike around it with the sword, and one-third you shall scatter in the wind: I will draw out a sword after them. 3 You shall also take a small number of them and bind them in the edge of your garment. 4 Then take some of them again and throw them into the midst of the fire, and burn them in the fire. From there a fire will go out into all the house of Israel.
2) Jerusalem was divided into 3 geographical parts: a. The upper city was walled off, where the wealthy lived, b. The lower city was walled off, where the middle income and poor lived, and c. The temple area was walled off from the rest of the city.
3) They where divided into 3 political parties, a. John Levi of Giscala, leader of the Galileans, b. Simeon, Leader of the Idumeans , and c. Eleazar, leader of the zealots. These 3 parties where possibly more responsible for more deaths in Jerusalem then the Roman army, and according to Josephus the historian they were.
(God just revealed this to me) Maybe the 4th way to divide them is religiously, Scribes, Pharisees and Priests or Religious Leaders in general.
Matthew 27:41-42,
41 Likewise the chief priests (1) also, mocking with the scribes(2) and elders(3), said, 42 “He saved others; Himself He cannot save. If He is the King of Israel, let Him now come down from the cross, and we will believe Him.
I believe I have just demonstrated that Jerusalem/Israel was divided 3 ways in 4 categories. Again, you can disagree, but I don't know how. You can not tell me how your future religious system will be divided 3 ways and you never did answer that question.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Wow, talk about trying to make excuses.
1. They paid roman taxes.
2. They had a puppet leader
3. Rome treated every city they conquered like this. It is how they kept people from rebelling. The man who was let go for Christ was let go because he was trying to make a stand against rome.
As for 70 AD. Rome did what God wanted them to do.
lol, again you need to study History. Babylon was the mother of pagan theology. This theology spread to the world when God dispersed the people. It was this religion Isreal was always getting into trouble with by playing the harlot with these Gods. Isreal is not the harlot. She played the harlot with their Gods, it is why they kept getting into trouble.
The world never got into trouble for playing the harlot with isreals Gods. Isreal was in trouble for playing the harlot with the worlds Gods, which originated in babylon. Isreal is not the mother harlot. She played with the mother harlot who was babylon. it is why she was always in trouble.
As for babylon. The aramic name refers to the city, God gave it the name because he confused the languages because of their sin of trying to get to God their own way. Which is what paganism is. The assyrians called it the court of belius, or the gate of God. It was the gate to the pagan God. Yes Isreal failed, But then at the same time they did not. Jesus was still son of David. God still kept his promise that through abrtahams seed all the nations of the world will be blessed. As Paul said in romans 9. Gods promise did not come out unanswered, He being the gate to God DID come from Isreal. Never has it been said that a naturtal child got an automatic in.
Isreal gave birth to the Christ child. she is the woman who is in the wilderness in revelation who is hunted by the beast but protected By God. So the beast turns on the womans offspring, which would be us.
How peoplw can twist and turn this to mean something it is not is beyond me.
I can't see it because it does not make sense. You have Isreal the woman who is protected in the wilderness, and Isreal the women who is babylon as the same, when it is clear not only in the OT but in the new testament that this is not the case.
Isreal got no more things from rome than any other nation Got. It is how they kept people check. Isreal was not special. History proves this. Isreal was still a conquered nation. And they will be until romans 9 is fulfilled.
3. How does America or a religious system fit this in Revelation 17:6 "I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.”
Saints have been martyred all over the world. There are other nations more guilty of this then America.
Come on EG, I know you know your bible. ancient Israel did kill for religion, Saul later to be the apostle Paul stood there while Stephen was martyred. Acts 6 onward has all kinds of details of the persecution from the Jewish leaders toward the new believers. They even enticed Rome to join them.
Matthew 23:31-36
“Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers’ guilt. 33 Serpents, brood of vipers!(they were sons of Satan, they were possessed) How can you escape the condemnation of hell? 34 Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city,35 that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
And you tell me Jerusalem/Israel didn't kill for religion, They were the biggest killers and they killed their and our messiah. It was all along God's plan, so I don't blame them, it doesn't matter what nation was chosen by God the results would have been the same. The Religious system of the Jews in the 1st Century where killer for religious reasons! Are you going to deny it now?
PS. I love you man ! ok, just read you last post, i'm done! It's that important.
Saints have been martyred all over the world. There are other nations more guilty of this then America.
Come on EG, I know you know your bible. ancient Israel did kill for religion, Saul later to be the apostle Paul stood there while Stephen was martyred. Acts 6 onward has all kinds of details of the persecution from the Jewish leaders toward the new believers. They even enticed Rome to join them.
Matthew 23:31-36
“Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers’ guilt. 33 Serpents, brood of vipers!(they were sons of Satan, they were possessed) How can you escape the condemnation of hell? 34 Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city,35 that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
And you tell me Jerusalem/Israel didn't kill for religion, They were the biggest killers and they killed their and our messiah. It was all along God's plan, so I don't blame them, it doesn't matter what nation was chosen by God the results would have been the same. The Religious system of the Jews in the 1st Century where killer for religious reasons! Are you going to deny it now?
PS. I love you man ! ok, just read you last post, i'm done! It's that important.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
You did not prove anything, You proved speculation, Even if you did show this to be possible. Many things were said about who babylon is. If it is isreal you must make them all fit.
John was given the answer to who the woman is.
this is why it can;t be isreal.
the woman sits on many waters, which means her influence is felt over many nations, peoples and languages, This is where her influence and power is felt. Isreal can not make this claim, especially in 70 ad.
She is destroyed by ten kings who hate her and make her desolate. Jerusalem was destroyed by Titus, a prince, One prince, and not even a king.
The woman is the city, which REIGNS over the KINGS of the earth. In other words, her influence and power is felt over the kings of the earth. Isreal could not make this claim in 70 AD. She did nto influence any king. let alone many kings. And she had no king herself.
as I already showed in 18. The men of the world became prosperous selling her stuff. Isreal could never make this claim. The world loved the woman, The world has NEVER IN ITS HISTORY LOVED ISREAL. The world mornes when the woman is destroyed. NO ONE HAS EVER< OR WILL EVER MORNE THE LOSS OF ISREAL.
then we come to the woman.
The woman of rev 12:
Gave birth to Christ
Was hated and continually attacked by the world
was sent to the wilderness and protected by God (remnant)
Isreal
Gave birth to Christ.
Has always been hated by the word.
Is still alive today (although not as a nation) and the hatred against her will just continue to get worse. God protected her for 200 years alread.
the woman of babylon
Mimicked Christ with its pagan Gods.
Loved by the world
Still alive today
A threat to the final beast so he destroys her.
My friend, You can take two or three things and make it appear it is isreal. But when you take the whole, you must overlook many things, or admit it can;t be isreal
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
I love you too. You make good points. but if you read my last posts, your points do not add up. Making a few points that may make it look like Isreal does not prove it is..
There are two woman in Israel, the harlot and the true church. The harlot Jerusalem/Israel paid other nations to have sex with her, that's biblical and that's what makes her the great harlot.. the other woman, the true church, were the believing Jews, Mary is one of them. Mary of the true Israel gave birth to Christ, not the Harlot. One is of the bond woman, the other is the free woman...ok, now I'm done. 
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
I know this is long, And may even have some iffy points. but this is the BEST thing I have ever read on who babylon is.
It comes from dwight pentecost. And although I do not agree with everything he says., it does not mean I should discount everything he says because I disagree with his version of dispensationalism.
Who is the harlot of rev 17? Rev 17 describes a judgment on the great harlot. the apostate religious system that exists in the tribulation period.The apostate religious system that excists in the tribulation period. The unbelieving professing church went into the tribulation period ( rev 2: 22 ; 3: 10 ) and a great religious system under the domination of the great harlot arose.
Who is the harlot?
1. Bears the representation of a harlot ( rev 17: 1-2, 15 - 16. It claimed to be christs bride, but had fallen from its pure purpose and had become a harlot.
2. a leader in ecclesiastical affairs. rev 17 : 2. 5. Spiritual fornication in scripture is an adherance to a false religious system.
3. the system is a leader in political affairs ( rev 17:3 ) it is seen to be controlling the beast for which it sits.
4 the system has become very rich and influential ( rev 17: 4)
5. The system represents the stage of development of christiondom that was hithertoo unrevieled ( rev 17: 5) in that it was called the " mystery "
6. the system has been a great persecutor of the saints. (rev 17: 6 )
7. the system is an organised system of worldwide scope ( rev 17 : 15)
8. The system will be destroyed by the beast, the head of the roman coalition, so that his supremace may not be threatened ( rev 17: 16 - 17 )
The identity of the harlot.
we can trace therelationship between ancient babylon and the doctrine and practice of the harlot system called mystery babylon. the woman is the religious system, who dominates the civil power at least for a time. the name on her forhead should easily enable us to identify her. but in order to do it. we must go back to old testament, and see literal babylon, for one will surely throw light on another.
The founder of babylon was nimrod, whose unholy achievments we read in the 10 chapter of genesis. He was arch apostate of the patriarchal age, he presuaded his associates and followers to join together in building a city and tower which would reach into heaven, to be recognised as a temple or rallying center for those who did not walk in obedience to the word . their city was called bab-EL which means " the gate of God " God soon changed it to babel or confusion. . it bore the stamp of reality from the first. for we are told they had brick for stone and slime for morter, An imitation of that which is real and true that has characterised Babylon in all ages.
If we return to ancient lore, we find that nimrods son was Nimrod Bar Cush and tells us his wife was simerimus the first. She is reputed to have been the foundres of the babylonian mysteries and the first high priestes of idolotry. Thus babylon became the foundation for idolotry and the mother of every heathen and pagan system of the world. As it spread in various forms around the earth and is with us today and shall have its fullest development when the Holy Spirit has departed and the babylon of the Apocolypse holds sway.
It comes from dwight pentecost. And although I do not agree with everything he says., it does not mean I should discount everything he says because I disagree with his version of dispensationalism.
Who is the harlot of rev 17? Rev 17 describes a judgment on the great harlot. the apostate religious system that exists in the tribulation period.The apostate religious system that excists in the tribulation period. The unbelieving professing church went into the tribulation period ( rev 2: 22 ; 3: 10 ) and a great religious system under the domination of the great harlot arose.
Who is the harlot?
1. Bears the representation of a harlot ( rev 17: 1-2, 15 - 16. It claimed to be christs bride, but had fallen from its pure purpose and had become a harlot.
2. a leader in ecclesiastical affairs. rev 17 : 2. 5. Spiritual fornication in scripture is an adherance to a false religious system.
3. the system is a leader in political affairs ( rev 17:3 ) it is seen to be controlling the beast for which it sits.
4 the system has become very rich and influential ( rev 17: 4)
5. The system represents the stage of development of christiondom that was hithertoo unrevieled ( rev 17: 5) in that it was called the " mystery "
6. the system has been a great persecutor of the saints. (rev 17: 6 )
7. the system is an organised system of worldwide scope ( rev 17 : 15)
8. The system will be destroyed by the beast, the head of the roman coalition, so that his supremace may not be threatened ( rev 17: 16 - 17 )
The identity of the harlot.
we can trace therelationship between ancient babylon and the doctrine and practice of the harlot system called mystery babylon. the woman is the religious system, who dominates the civil power at least for a time. the name on her forhead should easily enable us to identify her. but in order to do it. we must go back to old testament, and see literal babylon, for one will surely throw light on another.
The founder of babylon was nimrod, whose unholy achievments we read in the 10 chapter of genesis. He was arch apostate of the patriarchal age, he presuaded his associates and followers to join together in building a city and tower which would reach into heaven, to be recognised as a temple or rallying center for those who did not walk in obedience to the word . their city was called bab-EL which means " the gate of God " God soon changed it to babel or confusion. . it bore the stamp of reality from the first. for we are told they had brick for stone and slime for morter, An imitation of that which is real and true that has characterised Babylon in all ages.
If we return to ancient lore, we find that nimrods son was Nimrod Bar Cush and tells us his wife was simerimus the first. She is reputed to have been the foundres of the babylonian mysteries and the first high priestes of idolotry. Thus babylon became the foundation for idolotry and the mother of every heathen and pagan system of the world. As it spread in various forms around the earth and is with us today and shall have its fullest development when the Holy Spirit has departed and the babylon of the Apocolypse holds sway.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Building on the primeval promise of the womans seed who was to Come ( jesus ) Semerimus bore a son, whome she declared was miraculously concieved, and when she presented him, he was hailed as the promised deliverer. This was Tammuz, whose worship ezekial protested aginst in the days of the captivity. Thus was introduced the mystery of the mother and the child, a form of idolotry that is older than any known to amn. The rites of the worship were secret, only the initiated where permitted to know its mysteries. It was Satans effort to delude mankind with an imitation so like the truth of God that they would not know the true seed of the woman when he came in the fullness of time.
From Babylon the mystry religion spread to allsurrounding nations, everywhere the symbols were the same. and everywhere the cult of the Mother and the Child became the popular system. They where celebrated and worshiped with the most discusting of immoral practices. The image of the queen of heaven with the babe in her arms was seen everywhereThe names change as languages changed. From Astorith and tammuz in phoneacia, Isis and Horus in egypt. Aphrodite and Eros in greece, Venus and Cupid in Italy. within 1000 years it became the religion of the world.
Linked with this mystery were countless lesser mysteries. Amoung these were doctrines of purgatorial purification after death, Salvation by countless sacriments such as priestly ablusion, sprinking with holy water, offering of round cakes to the queen, as mentioned in jeremia. Dedication of virgins to the gods. weeping for tammuz for a period of 40 days prior the festival of ishtar, who was said to have recieved her son back from ther dead. For it was taught that tammuz was slain by a wild bore and afterwords brought back to life. To him the egg was sacred, as depicting the mystery of his ressurection ( easter ) even as the evergreen was chosen as a symbol to represent his birth at the winter solstice. A boars head was eaten in memory of its conflict and a yule log burned with many mysterious observances ( christmas) the sign of the cross was sacred to tammuz, as symbolising the life giving principle and as the first letter of his name. It was represented on vast number of altars and temples, and did not, as many believe, origionate with christianity.
From Babylon the mystry religion spread to allsurrounding nations, everywhere the symbols were the same. and everywhere the cult of the Mother and the Child became the popular system. They where celebrated and worshiped with the most discusting of immoral practices. The image of the queen of heaven with the babe in her arms was seen everywhereThe names change as languages changed. From Astorith and tammuz in phoneacia, Isis and Horus in egypt. Aphrodite and Eros in greece, Venus and Cupid in Italy. within 1000 years it became the religion of the world.
Linked with this mystery were countless lesser mysteries. Amoung these were doctrines of purgatorial purification after death, Salvation by countless sacriments such as priestly ablusion, sprinking with holy water, offering of round cakes to the queen, as mentioned in jeremia. Dedication of virgins to the gods. weeping for tammuz for a period of 40 days prior the festival of ishtar, who was said to have recieved her son back from ther dead. For it was taught that tammuz was slain by a wild bore and afterwords brought back to life. To him the egg was sacred, as depicting the mystery of his ressurection ( easter ) even as the evergreen was chosen as a symbol to represent his birth at the winter solstice. A boars head was eaten in memory of its conflict and a yule log burned with many mysterious observances ( christmas) the sign of the cross was sacred to tammuz, as symbolising the life giving principle and as the first letter of his name. It was represented on vast number of altars and temples, and did not, as many believe, origionate with christianity.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
when babylon was overthrown and the city and temples destrouyed. we find the the high priest fled with a company of initiates. and traveled through pergomus till he eventually led in Italy. their the ancient cult was propogated under the etruscan mysteries, and eventually Rpme bacame the headquartes of babylonialism. The chief priests wore mitres shaped like the head of a fish in honor of the fish God dagon, the Lord of Life. The chief priest in rome took on the title pontifus maximus and this was imprinted on his mitre, when julius ceaser, had become head of the state, he was elected pontifus maximus and this title was held hencforth by all roman emporors until constantine the great., who as at one time was head of the church, and high priest of the heathen.
The title was afterwords confered to the bishops of rome, and is borne by the pope today, who is thus declared to be, not the successor to Peter, but the direct successor to the high preist of the babylonian mysteries. For whom he wears, like his idolotrous predecessors the fishermans ring.
During the early centuries of the churches history. the mystery of iniquity had wroght such astounding affect , and babylonian practices and teachings had been so larglyu absorbed by that which bore the name of christ, that the truth of holy scriptures on many points had been wholly absorbed, while idolotrous practices were forced on christian people in the form of christian sacriments and heathen philosophies took the place of gospel instruction. Thus was developed an amazing system which for 1000 years dominated europe and trafficked in the bodies and souls of men, until the great reformation of the 16 century brought a measure of deliverance.
The title was afterwords confered to the bishops of rome, and is borne by the pope today, who is thus declared to be, not the successor to Peter, but the direct successor to the high preist of the babylonian mysteries. For whom he wears, like his idolotrous predecessors the fishermans ring.
During the early centuries of the churches history. the mystery of iniquity had wroght such astounding affect , and babylonian practices and teachings had been so larglyu absorbed by that which bore the name of christ, that the truth of holy scriptures on many points had been wholly absorbed, while idolotrous practices were forced on christian people in the form of christian sacriments and heathen philosophies took the place of gospel instruction. Thus was developed an amazing system which for 1000 years dominated europe and trafficked in the bodies and souls of men, until the great reformation of the 16 century brought a measure of deliverance.