the best thing to do I guess is teach young children from a very early age about Jesus, only he knows when they are old enough to understand and accept him, but I dont believe he is going to condemn someone who doesn't have the capacity to understand. on this same subject what about the children who are raised in homes and taught false teachings? is God going to hold them accountable or hold the parents accountable? I would think the child wouldn't know any different then what they were taught
When is a child old enough to follow Jesus?
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God doesn't send babies to hell. He does encourage that you raise a child in the faith though. Jesus said to let the children come to Him. All Christians should teach their children about Jesus as soon as possible. The early years are important for children.
I believe the Bar Mitzvah is the age of accountability in God's eyes.
Matthew 18 >>
New International Version 1984 The Greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven
1At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”
2He called a little child and had him stand among them. 3And he said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
5“And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me. 6But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.
7“Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but woe to the man through whom they come! 8If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. 9And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.
The Parable of the Lost Sheep
10“See that you do not look down on one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.a
12“What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off? 13And if he finds it, I tell you the truth, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off. 14In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should be lost.
New International Version 1984 The Greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven
1At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”
2He called a little child and had him stand among them. 3And he said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
5“And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me. 6But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.
7“Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but woe to the man through whom they come! 8If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. 9And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.
The Parable of the Lost Sheep
10“See that you do not look down on one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.a
12“What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away, will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off? 13And if he finds it, I tell you the truth, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off. 14In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should be lost.
People are being saved all the time from all walks of life. We help to lead a person to Christ but it's God that draws and saves a person.
As a child I was raised in a false religion. God used an evangelist to reach out to my mother. It was through my mother being saved that the truth was shared with me and I was eventually saved.
I really believe that everyone will have heard the truth at least once before they die. They either choose to accept or reject it.
from reading in Mathew then God isn't going to hold a child accountable for the parents teaching him false teachings and causing them to sin as such, he's going to hold the parents accountable , if a child is taught false teachings other then following Christ, then the child doesn't have any way of understanding those ways are wrong, i was talking about if a child dies without hearing the truth
I think this applies to my parent's neighbors.
Their son is my age and when he was young an evangelist gave him a bible. I forget the details but he was excited and interested. His parents threw his bible in the bin and forbid him from having any contact with any Christians. They banned him from speaking with my family because we're all born again.
He's now my age and it's very sad. He's not an easy person to talk to, very nasty towards other people and aggressive. His parents forbid him from looking into Christianity so they stumbled him as a child. He's now an adult so if he died not saved he would not see heaven.
However - who knows what will happen today... God could call him any day. God always finishes His work so He will likely bring a Christian into his life at some point. (I'm no longer in the country, but I considered sending a book to his parents or I could address something to him, now that I think about it
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TheGrungeDiva
Guest
This is an excellent question, and one which inadvertently reveals many cans of worms in today's Christianity.
Implied in the question is the theological belief that there is some "magical" age, younger than which, if you die without having been baptized, it's okay ("age of accountability"), and above which if you die without having made that decision, you go to hell. Just think about that for a moment. Think about what that says about who God is. Let's say that magic age is 13, as it is for a bar-mitzvah. If a 12-year-old dies 1 day before his 13th birthday, all is well, but the next day, if he doesn't get baptized that day, and gets his by a bus, he goes directly to hell, do not pass go, do not collect $200.
Seriously? Can anyone here say they believe that? I hope not.
This is the problem I have with a lot of Christian denominations that seem to emphasize conversion, and talk about being "born again" as if it were a singular event. They look down their noses at us mainliners because we baptize infants. They say, "an infant can't understand what it's doing." I tell you: I don't understand Jesus' message of unconditional love any better today, after 4 years of seminary and then 20+ years of practicing in ministry, than I did the day I was baptized at the age of 2 months. I am no more qualified to receive that free gift of grace now than I was then.
Let me ask this: at what age of gestation is it proper for a fetus to be born? How well should the fetus understand neo-natal biology before it passes through the birth canal? Should it ask permission of both parents to be born before it is born, or is permission from one of the parents enough?
As ludicrous as these questions are, it is how silly questions about "age of accountability" are in Christian doctrine. No one chose to be born. Similarly, no one chose to follow Jesus on their own. God chose you.
At what age did you recognize that call, and start paying attention? Well, that's another question. People who ask about that are also confused. They seem to think that following Jesus is a one-time thing, like boarding a heaven-bound bus. If you just get on the bus and take your seat, he'll get you there. But it's not a bus-ride, it's a walk. Following Jesus is something you decide every day of your life, every moment. When you're in the car, and some creep cuts you off, and you choose between honking your horn and flashing him the finger or blowing him a kiss, you're deciding whether you're following Jesus or not.
When is a child old enough to follow Jesus?
The only correct answer to that question is, "Yes."
Implied in the question is the theological belief that there is some "magical" age, younger than which, if you die without having been baptized, it's okay ("age of accountability"), and above which if you die without having made that decision, you go to hell. Just think about that for a moment. Think about what that says about who God is. Let's say that magic age is 13, as it is for a bar-mitzvah. If a 12-year-old dies 1 day before his 13th birthday, all is well, but the next day, if he doesn't get baptized that day, and gets his by a bus, he goes directly to hell, do not pass go, do not collect $200.
Seriously? Can anyone here say they believe that? I hope not.
This is the problem I have with a lot of Christian denominations that seem to emphasize conversion, and talk about being "born again" as if it were a singular event. They look down their noses at us mainliners because we baptize infants. They say, "an infant can't understand what it's doing." I tell you: I don't understand Jesus' message of unconditional love any better today, after 4 years of seminary and then 20+ years of practicing in ministry, than I did the day I was baptized at the age of 2 months. I am no more qualified to receive that free gift of grace now than I was then.
Let me ask this: at what age of gestation is it proper for a fetus to be born? How well should the fetus understand neo-natal biology before it passes through the birth canal? Should it ask permission of both parents to be born before it is born, or is permission from one of the parents enough?
As ludicrous as these questions are, it is how silly questions about "age of accountability" are in Christian doctrine. No one chose to be born. Similarly, no one chose to follow Jesus on their own. God chose you.
At what age did you recognize that call, and start paying attention? Well, that's another question. People who ask about that are also confused. They seem to think that following Jesus is a one-time thing, like boarding a heaven-bound bus. If you just get on the bus and take your seat, he'll get you there. But it's not a bus-ride, it's a walk. Following Jesus is something you decide every day of your life, every moment. When you're in the car, and some creep cuts you off, and you choose between honking your horn and flashing him the finger or blowing him a kiss, you're deciding whether you're following Jesus or not.
When is a child old enough to follow Jesus?
The only correct answer to that question is, "Yes."
There is no age limit for man being a partaker of the works of God as He wills it. John the baptist leaped of joy in his mother's womb of Mary's visitation. Luke 1:39-45.
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wwjd_kilden
Guest
This information is a repeat from another thread, but it applies here. My yougest sister of three and I were sent to Bible school one summer. Being five children in all, our trailer was a bit small, so this kept us out of Mom's way. I loved Bible school because they gave us cookies and kool-aid, which, by the way, today sounds horrible to me. We did not learn a lot, although I won a plaque for learning some words from the Bible. The plaque had a poem on it, "Overheard in an Orchard" with some wise words from a robin and a sparrow.
The only thing I learned that stuck with me is that Jesus loves ME. Although I was not convinced truly of any faith until the age of 28, I had a respect all of my life for Jesus, and I believed God loves me.
After this about the age of 7, I had a vision while in bed which was comforting and half understood until the Holy Spirit entered into me 21 years later when it was understood.
Yahweh, God, will never turn a child away, and when we come to Him as adults, we do turn and become children again. All children follow Jesus, Yeshua, whether they know His name or not.
The only thing I learned that stuck with me is that Jesus loves ME. Although I was not convinced truly of any faith until the age of 28, I had a respect all of my life for Jesus, and I believed God loves me.
After this about the age of 7, I had a vision while in bed which was comforting and half understood until the Holy Spirit entered into me 21 years later when it was understood.
Yahweh, God, will never turn a child away, and when we come to Him as adults, we do turn and become children again. All children follow Jesus, Yeshua, whether they know His name or not.
Thanks mule.
Will someone please analyse and explain these verses for me?
Are these verses (Ps 58:3, Isa 48:8) saying that we are born with sinful desires in our hearts?
Kenisyes,
I like the example you cited. I know that many kids come to know about Jesus at a very young age. However, they know Jesus just emotionally. No doubt, a child is destined for heaven. However, this is not what I'm talking about.
Following Jesus is a conscious decision of responding to the Word of God, acknowledging your sins, repenting of your past sins and taking corrective measures, making a decision not to repeat your past sins, accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior (i.e. surrendering your will to His in our everyday decisions) and making a commitment to obey his commands daily. A child cannot make this decision. Therefore, in my opinion, a child is not in a position follow Christ. That's why God will not hold him accountable. After reading the responses to this post I have come to the conclusion that an adult of 18 to 20 years can definitely understand what sin is and can understand why Jesus died for us on the Cross.
You said in your second paragraph that most adults do not understand this. In my opinion, most normal adults can understand sin and the cross. The fact is that they do not want to acknowledge sin and do not want to leave their ways of sin.
John 3:
19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
If Jesus was serious about dying on a cruel cross for us, I'm sure He expects us to make that decision as early as possible. It is not for His good, but for ours. Our sin will not make God less majestic, and our repentance will not make Him more holy.
Now, if we do not make that decision to "follow" him despite knowing that we are sinners, and if we refuse to walk in His ways, He is patient. He will wait just like the father in the parable of the Prodigal Son. He may wait till one is 90 years old. Time is meaningless, as you mentioned, but must we take his love for granted?
Now, do not get me wrong. No Christian is perfect in the way they follow Jesus. We make mistakes everyday. We may sin everyday. That's why we need the grace of God. I made a decision to follow him when I was 19. Now, it has not been a perfect journey for me. I have fallen many a times, and stand in need of his grace daily. May He have mercy on me, because He is the one who saves!
I Agree!
If teenagers know all about the birds and the bees, how can we say they do not understand sin and the cross? Yes, some mature earlier and some mature later.
Most people on this thread are saying, "God knows when a person is old enough."
Yes, God obviously knows when they are old enough, but don't you think a 25 year old has the capacity to understand what is wrong and what is right?
Most people know the truth, but they choose not to obey it, because they want to live in their own way. That's what my Bible tells me.
Now, when i say this, i am speaking to myself, because there are many times when I choose to go my own way. All of us need his grace!
About children that are brought up with false teachings, I believe that God will introduce them to the truth at some point in life.
If a person does not get a chance to know God's ways (that is, he is invincibly ignorant or not responsible for his ignorance), God will judge that person only according to what that person knows (John 15:22).
Now, if a person is of age and has heard the word of God preached to him and says, "I'm not interested. I am better off when I'm ignorant," he is responsible for his ignorance, and will have to answer God.
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GreenNnice
Guest
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mule
Guest
It is about our spirit. Just as we know Jesus sheep hear His voice we know the wicked are known from the womb. God sees our spirit, He knows who we are. This is the whole predestination thing, each of us have the opportunity to change our destiny. How? By repenting *_*
I think this applies to my parent's neighbors.
Their son is my age and when he was young an evangelist gave him a bible. I forget the details but he was excited and interested. His parents threw his bible in the bin and forbid him from having any contact with any Christians. They banned him from speaking with my family because we're all born again.
He's now my age and it's very sad. He's not an easy person to talk to, very nasty towards other people and aggressive. His parents forbid him from looking into Christianity so they stumbled him as a child. He's now an adult so if he died not saved he would not see heaven.
However - who knows what will happen today... God could call him any day. God always finishes His work so He will likely bring a Christian into his life at some point. (I'm no longer in the country, but I considered sending a book to his parents or I could address something to him, now that I think about it
Jesus promises that following him will not be easy. I personally know a girl who was stopped by her orthodox family from studying the Bible when she was a minor. Although she gave up meeting with the concerned church due to her family pressure, she waited till she turned 18. Once she was 18, she met with the church and committed her life to Jesus.
I believe that God will meet this boy someday if he is still seeking God, and will introduce him to the truth. God never gives up on those who seek him.
No matter what his circumstances were, nastiness is entirely his fault, and can't be blamed on his parents. Yes, they stumbled him as a child, but they thought that they were doing him good. They loved him and they wanted to protect him from joining some religious group other than theirs. If he had tasted the truth, he should have pursued it later. Anyway, it is unfortunate that he was stopped from seeking God as a kid. Maybe he someday will.
I pray and believe this. Our God is good!
K
kenisyes
Guest
We agree it depends on your definition. As you say, a child can "follow Jesus emotionally". I did that, and He took care of the rest. Also, note that you felt obligated to define "accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior", with the parethetical "i.e"., and that was my other point. Many even serious church going Christians don't know what the word "Lord" means (we don't use it in our culture any more) and many think that the only thing Jesus saves us from is the fires of hell, when in fact His grace is good for so much more.
You are right, any normal adult can understand sin and the cross.
Based on your definition, I agree completely. The age is somewhere around 12 or 13, but can vary from 6 even up to 25 in some extreme cases, based on exactly when a person can understand sin, the cross, repentance Lord and savior.
I wish I could agree that the only reason people don't get saved is not wanting to acknowledge sin or to repent. I think there is no general agreement among churches as to what getting saved means, and the difference of definition is lot of the problem; people get "saved" under a wrong definition, don't really change or respond to God's grace, and then there is less motivation for others to want to try, as they do not see the glory of God in those who are saved.
I agree that there are too many conflicting beliefs in Christianity today. If every person would intently look into the Word of God rather than just blindly subscribing to the prevalent doctrines, Christians may have thought alike.
Acts 17
11 Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
On this thread there are two categories of people. One category, believes that there is an age of accountability. However, they are no way implying that it is a "magical age." Most of them believe in God's grace and God's initiative in calling people to Him. Furthermore, they have provided verses that may support their beliefs.
The other category is not very particular, and won't use any Bible verses except for the verse about Jesus and the children.
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TheGrungeDiva
Guest
No, it's not that we "aren't particular." We ARE particular. We are particularly sure that there is no age of accountability.
And the reason we don't use any particular Bible verse to back it up is because it violates copyright laws (not to mention practicality) to quote the entire Bible. We read the whole of Scripture to show a loving, graceful God who doesn't judge souls the way a god must under that whole "age of accountability" structure. That picture simply contradicts all we believe about a loving, merciful God.
I am glad to see that there's no one so extreme in that first category to think that God would send a child to hell just because he or she died at some arbitrary age without having had gone through some ritual.
What is somewhat disappointing is that there are still many who are caught in this incorrect theology, despite this excellent question that challenges it. Since that age is arbitrary -- since just saying "13" or "21" or "35" or "99" isn't going to do it -- maybe you need to rethink your entire concept of salvation, realizing that it isn't something you do, but something God does to you, not once in some magic ritual with water and a preacher, but throughout your whole life.