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J
Actually there is a bigger issue. I had forgotten that Adam was 130 years old when Eve bore Seth (who came after Cain and Abel).
So that limits it to less than 130 as an absolute. Anyone wishing to insert any time here, can not fit millions of years based on the text.
Also, another matter is that Genesis 4 cites the conception of Cain and Abel as being post-fall. Which was something else I was not aware of.
Genesis 4:1
Adam[a] made love to his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain.
Considering that she did not conceive her first child in the Garden, I think they were in the Garden much shorter than 8 months.
I think they were probably there around 40 days, based on 1 Cor. 15:45... I'm not too concerned. About 130 years is the absolute most it could have been.
Case closed.
So that limits it to less than 130 as an absolute. Anyone wishing to insert any time here, can not fit millions of years based on the text.
Also, another matter is that Genesis 4 cites the conception of Cain and Abel as being post-fall. Which was something else I was not aware of.
Genesis 4:1
Adam[a] made love to his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain.
Considering that she did not conceive her first child in the Garden, I think they were in the Garden much shorter than 8 months.
I think they were probably there around 40 days, based on 1 Cor. 15:45... I'm not too concerned. About 130 years is the absolute most it could have been.
Case closed.
God created creation, He then created Adam, and told Adam to go forth and name all the animals and find one for a mate. Ok, pause button here. How long would it take one man to explore all of creation and name all of the animals? Could very well be all those millions of years geology says existed. I know I wouldn't have had it done it by next week.
Ok, play. Adam finally gets done naming the animals, but says none are fit to be a mate. That's when God knocks him out, takes the rib, and creates Eve. Go forth and be like rabbits. Pause again. We don't know how long they went forth procreating. Coulda been another eon for all the geological evidence, and they could have spawned whole populations of the 'procreated'. All we know is that at some point later on God's walking thru the garden and comes upon them and their little waldorf salad.
That's when they were kicked out, that's when the clock started running, and that's when Cain and Able were born. Where did Cain and Abel get their wives? Well, Adam and Eve's primary job discription from day one was 'to procreate'.
Ok, play. Adam finally gets done naming the animals, but says none are fit to be a mate. That's when God knocks him out, takes the rib, and creates Eve. Go forth and be like rabbits. Pause again. We don't know how long they went forth procreating. Coulda been another eon for all the geological evidence, and they could have spawned whole populations of the 'procreated'. All we know is that at some point later on God's walking thru the garden and comes upon them and their little waldorf salad.
That's when they were kicked out, that's when the clock started running, and that's when Cain and Able were born. Where did Cain and Abel get their wives? Well, Adam and Eve's primary job discription from day one was 'to procreate'.
Been down that exact path of thought myself. Makes compatible sense to me, and I'd buy that. You could even argue that Adam's age wasn't counted until after the fall, because he wouldn't have aged I'd guess.
For me, it's more important to see other things in the genesis story.
For example, when and why did YHWH make animal skins to cover them?
To establish that mankind will thereafter have their character compared to various animal personae.
In the short dialogue before this, only one animal persona had been applied and it was to something/someone else. Now we can be called serpents too. Yay. 0_o
Lots of real gems in there if you ask me, when we stop counting to six.
For me, it's more important to see other things in the genesis story.
For example, when and why did YHWH make animal skins to cover them?
To establish that mankind will thereafter have their character compared to various animal personae.
In the short dialogue before this, only one animal persona had been applied and it was to something/someone else. Now we can be called serpents too. Yay. 0_o
Lots of real gems in there if you ask me, when we stop counting to six.
J
The number of years a person has lived isn't determined by how they appear. You should know that. Scripture says that Adam was around 130 years old. That means by definition he had been alive (from the time of creation) about 130 years. You can try and insert your preferred ideas to fit millions of years into the equation, but you will have to deny parts of scripture to do so.
I believe I have said just that. Adam could have been any number of years old, and still been 15, 17, 21, etc. in appearance the whole time before he began to die. For a moment, or a million years.
Or he could have been dying for 130 years.
It doesn't matter to me if it was millions of years. What matters to me is to understand what heaven, earth, sea, light, sun, moon, trees, animals, etc. represent spiritually from the beginning, and the order they were created in. Otherwise, I would have a whole bible full of those symbols laid out before me with nothing but worthless flavor added in the form of "Fig tree" and "Almond tree", etc., not even having a clue what a tree is to start with.
Or he could have been dying for 130 years.
It doesn't matter to me if it was millions of years. What matters to me is to understand what heaven, earth, sea, light, sun, moon, trees, animals, etc. represent spiritually from the beginning, and the order they were created in. Otherwise, I would have a whole bible full of those symbols laid out before me with nothing but worthless flavor added in the form of "Fig tree" and "Almond tree", etc., not even having a clue what a tree is to start with.
M
Why would Adams age start in the garden? There is no need for time in an eternal environment. Seasons for planting I get but days and years doesn't make sense. As I said before we count the days because we are counting till our death. He was fully formed a man and would not die which would indicate he would not age. Does God say I am ( this many ) years old? Do the angels says we are ( this many ) years old. They are and will be. Although I think a few of those angels should count till the lake of fire ha ha
I stand my the thought that Adam's age is counted from the time of the fall and not before.
And what a poor view of man he was only created for a few days or years and he disobeys ha ha ha ha
Oh my gosh talk about stupid ha ha ha Did I say stupid? I mean WEAK -- oh that fruit looks sooo good mmmmm let me try to sneak behind God's back. I just have to have some.
I stand my the thought that Adam's age is counted from the time of the fall and not before.
And what a poor view of man he was only created for a few days or years and he disobeys ha ha ha ha
Oh my gosh talk about stupid ha ha ha Did I say stupid? I mean WEAK -- oh that fruit looks sooo good mmmmm let me try to sneak behind God's back. I just have to have some.
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M
Keep in mind there weren't millions of different animals back then. Adam didn't have all the animals we see today. And how long would it take to name the animals anyways? God shows him an animal, he gives it a name, and they move on. Maybe like 10 seconds per animal? I don't see why it couldn't be done in a short time.
So do you think God just confused everyone prior to the 1800's into thinking the earth was young when it really wasn't?
7,112BC is a far cry off from billions of years. Billions of years is man's doctrine, and I've run out of reasons to believe in billions of years.
So do you think God just confused everyone prior to the 1800's into thinking the earth was young when it really wasn't?
7,112BC is a far cry off from billions of years. Billions of years is man's doctrine, and I've run out of reasons to believe in billions of years.
K
You can do a lot of reading, if you seriously care to get involved. There are some really great Christian books out there. But you're right. It's more important that Jesus is at the Father's right hand NOW, interceding for us. and that we will live and reign forever.
I do have an advanced degree in mathematics, however, and I am quite upset. Scientists have made such fools of themselves claiming this evolution theory is fact, that so many hate science and math now. I get to keep reteaching grade school math in college; I'm sure this is a big part of the cause.
I do have an advanced degree in mathematics, however, and I am quite upset. Scientists have made such fools of themselves claiming this evolution theory is fact, that so many hate science and math now. I get to keep reteaching grade school math in college; I'm sure this is a big part of the cause.
my husband was an expert on growth rings of trees in his job as a tree trimmer and he tells me that a tree will have sudden and frequent growth when the conditions are really good and so rings may form even many times a year but when conditions are bad the tree will not grow and rings do not form...to guage the age of a tree by growth rings is very flawed because of the inconsistency of conditions in certain areas over a long period of time...you will find that the socalled oldest tree may be nowhere near 13000 years old..it just experienced a lot of good conditions in its time and so growth was abundant
T
A few questions will need to be answered. First verse to question is:
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Does this verse fit into the first day of creation?
The second verse to question is:
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And
the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
The question is, why is the earth without form and void? Why would God create it that way?
Darkness, in the Bible, refers to judgment. Is the earth being judged at this point and if so, why?
Personally, I don't have the answers. But I do see something like "without form" and "void", and
"darkness" and wonder what is going on, or what did happen.
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Does this verse fit into the first day of creation?
The second verse to question is:
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And
the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
The question is, why is the earth without form and void? Why would God create it that way?
Darkness, in the Bible, refers to judgment. Is the earth being judged at this point and if so, why?
Personally, I don't have the answers. But I do see something like "without form" and "void", and
"darkness" and wonder what is going on, or what did happen.
K
You are assuming that the trees added one ring per year as they do now (and extended the roots consistent with that). Consider the rain damage to the chapels by the sphinx (out in the desert). They prove an inconsistency of the earth's weather patterns there. Until we can explain that, and until we can explain the ion fields that seem to build from space before prolonged rain spells, we have to keep open the possibility that some sort of weather modification occurred. Oxford University Sumerian department has committed themselves online to an ancient translation "Rainfall was increased" (passive voice) at the start of the second Sumerian Kingdom. Weather modification and ionic field connections could have altered the freeze/thaw cycle to twice what we have now quite easily.
Throw in ionic fields and you lose all radioactive dating accuracy, also.
Bottom line: Science observes, catalogs, and takes advantage of observations by using the best theory. Faith changes things. Once we allow for faith, anything past written history must be considered an outlier to any predictive method. We simply can't tell what got changed.
Throw in ionic fields and you lose all radioactive dating accuracy, also.
Bottom line: Science observes, catalogs, and takes advantage of observations by using the best theory. Faith changes things. Once we allow for faith, anything past written history must be considered an outlier to any predictive method. We simply can't tell what got changed.
K
How is the date established? That's the key question. There is no reason to believe the earth is "mature". Like the Grand Canyon supposedly took a million years to eat away. Yet I'm told there is one which is half its cross-sectional size formed by the Mt. St. Helen's eruption just about when you were born. It took a week. We watched it form on satellite.
A
This is pretty much my opinion on the matter. I suspect there could be something going on there in the first two verses of Genesis.
Something also worth mentioning is the fact that Jeremiah 4:23 is worded in a very similar fashion as Genesis 1:2 and what its describing in Jeremiah is the result of a judgment.
Gen 1:2-3 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
Plus, God gave a similar commandments to both Adam and Noah. We know that the commandment giving to Noah was right after the flood (judgment)
Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Gen 9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.
Gen 9:2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.
Now this doesn't prove anything but it is worth taking notice of in my opinion.
Something also worth mentioning is the fact that Jeremiah 4:23 is worded in a very similar fashion as Genesis 1:2 and what its describing in Jeremiah is the result of a judgment.
Gen 1:2-3 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
Plus, God gave a similar commandments to both Adam and Noah. We know that the commandment giving to Noah was right after the flood (judgment)
Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Gen 9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.
Gen 9:2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.
Now this doesn't prove anything but it is worth taking notice of in my opinion.
M
Some assume to believe in evolution is to not believe in God or God's word. The young earth old earth also is seen as a struggle between scripture and science I don't see it as either or. I can believe in God and accept what science has observed. In the catholic church is a section devoted to science. There is the book of God and the book of nature.
I do however think that science is BSing me most of the time. It just doesn't add up. One day they believe one thing and show evidence to support their theories and the next day they change the story and show
new discoveries and all the theories change to fit the new evidence.
God's word is everlasting ( although these preachers now a days want to change it like science finding new discoveries ( revelations) ha ha
When it comes down importance in my life I would not put this anywhere near the top ha ha
I do however think that science is BSing me most of the time. It just doesn't add up. One day they believe one thing and show evidence to support their theories and the next day they change the story and show
new discoveries and all the theories change to fit the new evidence.
God's word is everlasting ( although these preachers now a days want to change it like science finding new discoveries ( revelations) ha ha
When it comes down importance in my life I would not put this anywhere near the top ha ha