Who is Babylon the Great Harlot?

[ForthAngel]

Thanks or posting this bookends. This answered a plethora of questions I was having. Still got a lot though. Looking forward to more on Revelation from you.

 

[clarkthompson]

I think it is more symbolic of how things are going to be at that time they are going to be as corrupted as babel and the LORD is going to have to step in

 

[Mark51]

Babylon the Great Harlot is none other than the world empire of false religion.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

i am sure babylon is a corrupted apostate church...professing to be the 'bride of christ'...but continually sleeping around...

babylon rides the beast...the world political system...in order to maintain herself in a state of luxury...so this is an apostate church allied with the state...

 

[loveme1]

line 12 stood out to me when i read it.

Luke 23

8And when Herod saw Jesus, he was exceeding glad: for he was desirous to see him of a long season, because he had heard many things of him; and he hoped to have seen some miracle done by him. 9Then he questioned with him in many words; but he answered him nothing. 10And the chief priests and scribes stood and vehemently accused him. 11And Herod with his men of war set him at nought, and mocked him, and arrayed him in a gorgeous robe, and sent him again to Pilate. 12And the same day Pilate and Herod were made friends together: for before they were at enmity between themselves.

 

[Saint-John]

Roman(Empire) catholic system ,seven heads, (seven hills of Rome)(ruled over many kings and countries)inquisition etc..mother of harlots..(many offshoot churches) Israel (people church) went off and played harlot with the ways off other nations..etc forsook Gods ways and introduced ther own...so by the time Jesus arrived they were WAY OFF..and could not see(recognize him) just like most churches today..!!!!

 

[jb]

Rev 11v8, 14v8, 17v18 tells us the identity of The Great City, also called a harlot, Babylon, Sodom and Egypt as being Jerusalem (during the Great Tribulation)...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Rev 11v8, 14v8, 17v18 tells us the identity of The Great City, also called a harlot, Babylon, Sodom and Egypt as being Jerusalem (during the Great Tribulation)...

this is a great mistranslation. The harlot is not jerusalem. It is not a city it is a religious system. whihc is located in a city, there are three religions in jerusalem right now. it would not be the harlot.

 

[Mediate]

The kingdom of God is not something we look at outside us, nor point to. It is within us.

So is babylon.

 

[Bookends]

The kingdom of God is not something we look at outside us, nor point to. It is within us.

So is babylon.

I never said we couldn't draw application from the literal fulfillment or account. The Whole bible are books and letters written concerning people, places and times and was written to them specifically, but also written for us. And yes, there are still things written I think that pertain to the future, but it takes biblical discernment no know the difference, an art and skill in which needs to be developed.

 

[Bookends]

13) The Harlot will be punished double for her sins. Revelation 18:6 reveals to us, “Render to her just as she rendered to you, and repay her double according to her works; in the cup which she has mixed, mix double for her.” (NKJV). Why should any city be punished double for her sins? WHY? I'll tell you, Luke 12:47,48 gives some insight on this, Jerusalem was given the most light from God, but rejected it. Not only once, but twice, and she was destroyed twice, in 586 BC and 70 AD. I also believe that receiving double the punishment is also referring the degree of punishment, turmoil, plagues, etc. Lets see how hard it is for find an OT reference, umm, not hard at all, Isaiah 40:2, speaking of Jerusalem:
“Speak comfort to Jerusalem, and cry out to her,
That her warfare is ended,
That her iniquity is pardoned;
For she has received from the Lord’s hand
Double for all her sins.” (NKJV)


Those in Christ today are those who are comforted. Those in Christ are citizens of the New Jerusalem. Speaking of the restored Jerusalem, In which I believe Jeremiah 16:14-21 is talking about and Isaiah 61, the prophetic rendering of the Church. In Jer. 16:18 speaks directly that old Jerusalem was punished double, “And first I will repay double for their iniquity and their sin, because they have defiled My land; they have filled My inheritance with the carcasses of their detestable and abominable idols.” (NKJV)
Well, clearly you should see that God proclaimed double punishment upon ancient Jerusalem, and see that it fits Rev. 18:6 perfectly, regardless of the failure to recognize the coming Church being proclaimed:
Jeremiah 16:19-21
19. O Lord, my strength and my fortress,
My refuge in the day of affliction,
The Gentiles shall come to You
From the ends of the earth and say,
“Surely our fathers have inherited lies,
Worthlessness and unprofitable things.”
20. Will a man make gods for himself,
Which are not gods?
21. “Therefore behold, I will this once cause them to know,
I will cause them to know
My hand and My might;
And they shall know that My name is the Lord.
Isaiah 61:1-3 (parenthesis displays my emphasis added)
1. “The Spirit of the Lord God is upon Me,(Christ)
Because the Lord has anointed Me (Christ)
To preach good tidings to the poor; (Christ)
He has sent Me (Christ) to heal the brokenhearted,(sinners, us, the church)
To proclaim liberty to the captives,(sinners, us, slaves of sin and in bondage to sin)
And the opening of the prison to those who are bound; (the gentiles, the whole world, bondage to sin)
2. To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, (His redemptive work on the Cross)
And the day of vengeance of our God; (upon all who reject him, including Israel)
To comfort all who mourn,(those who see their sin and repent wholeheartedly)
3. To console those who mourn in Zion,(those who see their sin and repent wholeheartedly, specifically those in Jerusalem, God's remnant, disciples, apostles, 1st Century Church which consisted mostly of converted Jews, Acts 2-Pentecost)
To give them beauty for ashes,(Christ exchanges our sin and sorrows for his righteousness)
The oil of joy for mourning, (Salvation is bitter sweet, we can't be save until we see our sin and the hurt we caused God. But once we realize that, we receive the Holy Spirit and Joy, the Comforter)
The garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness;(saints are given robes of righteousness because they recognized their sin and believe in Christ's full payment for it, GRACE)
That they may be called trees of righteousness,(we become grafted into the one cultivated olive tree, the vine of the Lord, Jews and gentiles alike, we become brothers of the first born)
The planting of the Lord (the church), that He may be glorified.” (NKJV)

This response it my post regarding reason 13 is an addition to an other verse I read during my Bible reading.

Jeremiah 16:18
18 And first I will repay double for their iniquity and their sin, because they have defiled My land; they have filled My inheritance with the carcasses of their detestable and abominable idols.” 19 O Lord, my strength and my fortress,
My refuge in the day of affliction,
The Gentiles shall come to You

It is not an accident that Jeremiah speaks of the Christian Church right after mentioning Natural Israel paying double for her sins. That is exactly what happen just slightly before the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem (her second judgment) and mostly after and still going on today.

From the ends of the earth and say,
“Surely our fathers have inherited lies,
Worthlessness and unprofitable things.”

21 “Therefore behold, I will this once cause them ( them=gentiles) to know,
I will cause them to know
My hand and My might;
And they (they=gentiles) shall know that My name is the Lord.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This response it my post regarding reason 13 is an addition to an other verse I read during my Bible reading.

Jeremiah 16:18
18 And first I will repay double for their iniquity and their sin, because they have defiled My land; they have filled My inheritance with the carcasses of their detestable and abominable idols.” 19 O Lord, my strength and my fortress,
My refuge in the day of affliction,
The Gentiles shall come to You

It is not an accident that Jeremiah speaks of the Christian Church right after mentioning Natural Israel paying double for her sins. That is exactly what happen just slightly before the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem (her second judgment) and mostly after and still going on today.

From the ends of the earth and say,
“Surely our fathers have inherited lies,
Worthlessness and unprofitable things.”

21 “Therefore behold, I will this once cause them ( them=gentiles) to know,
I will cause them to know
My hand and My might;
And they (they=gentiles) shall know that My name is the Lord.

I doubt this speaks of the church.

1. The church is not gentile, it is neither jew or gentile, male or female, slave or free.
2. God did not show the church his hand or his might, but his love.


Jeremiah is speaking of the future gentile overthrow of Isreal and the city, and enslaving Isreal because of her sin. And the destruction of the gentile nations who treated his people badly. By this might shall they know he is God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I never said we couldn't draw application from the literal fulfillment or account. The Whole bible are books and letters written concerning people, places and times and was written to them specifically, but also written for us. And yes, there are still things written I think that pertain to the future, but it takes biblical discernment no know the difference, an art and skill in which needs to be developed.

I agree, it is an art and skill. But we still many times still do not take into account our own biases, what we have been brought up to learn, and our own belief system. Even with prophesy.

 

[Bookends]

11) 13) The Harlot will be punished double for her sins. Revelation 18:6 reveals to us, “Render to her just as she rendered to you, and repay her double according to her works; in the cup which she has mixed, mix double for her.” (NKJV). Why should any city be punished double for her sins? WHY? I'll tell you, Luke 12:47,48 gives some insight on this, Jerusalem was given the most light from God, but rejected it. Not only once, but twice, and she was destroyed twice, in 586 BC and 70 AD. I also believe that receiving double the punishment is also referring the degree of punishment, turmoil, plagues, etc. Lets see how hard it is for find an OT reference, umm, not hard at all, Isaiah 40:2, speaking of Jerusalem:

Two further support my claim that this is two fold destruction in that Jerusalem also received double punishment in both circumstances is in Jeremiah 17:18.

Jeremiah 17:18
18 Let them be ashamed who persecute me,
But do not let me be put to shame;
Let them be dismayed,
But do not let me be dismayed.
Bring on them the day of doom,
And destroy them with double destruction!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Two further support my claim that this is two fold destruction in that Jerusalem also received double punishment in both circumstances is in Jeremiah 17:18.

Jeremiah 17:18
18 Let them be ashamed who persecute me,
But do not let me be put to shame;
Let them be dismayed,
But do not let me be dismayed.
Bring on them the day of doom,
And destroy them with double destruction!

This does not make sense. Jeremiah is praying for healing of his people. Not the destruction of his city. he is praying for the destruction of the gentiles who will enslave his people. No jew ever prayed for the destruction of jerusalem even when his people were in sin. Daniel is huge proof of this.

 

[Bookends]

I doubt this speaks of the church.

1. The church is not gentile, it is neither jew or gentile, male or female, slave or free.
2. God did not show the church his hand or his might, but his love.[/color]

I'm not going to expand to much on this because it is a ridiculous argument, Paul said he was an apostle to the gentiles, meaning that God called Him specifically to preach and convert gentiles, and once saved, true they were no long gentiles. Believing Jews and gentile came into the body of the church as one. Jesus also told the disciples to preach to the Jew first and then the gentile.

What? you can't see His hand or His might and still see His love. You don't see His hand or might today?

Jeremiah is speaking of the future gentile overthrow of Isreal and the city, and enslaving Isreal because of her sin. And the destruction of the gentile nations who treated his people badly. By this might shall they know he is God.

It is very well possable that Jeremiah was speaking of an literal and immediate prophecy and its fulfillment of the first destruction of Jerusalem, and an ultimate fulfillment in the second.

So did the people of Babylon in general come to know God? At least nothing long term. Maybe Neberkenezer did, but it sure wasn't due to the war between Him and Jerusalem. Ever think that Neberkenezer could be a anti-type of the church, experience 7 years of eating grass? Anyway Neberkenezer realized who God was after he was humbled by God, but it didn't take root in the culture back then nor among many Babylonians. I haven't read any real evidence ancient Babylon as a whole coming to know God, and if they had, perhaps Medo-Persia wouldn't have conquered them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm not going to expand to much on this because it is a ridiculous argument, Paul said he was an apostle to the gentiles, meaning that God called Him specifically to preach and convert gentiles, and once saved, true they were no long gentiles. Believing Jews and gentile came into the body of the church as one. Jesus also told the disciples to preach to the Jew first and then the gentile.

What? you can't see His hand or His might and still see His love. You don't see His hand or might today?

lol for one who likes to argue the church is neither jew or gentile, you sur elove to poke that the church is gentile.

as for seeing the hand of God, read revelation, and other passages that speak of Gods wrath. then you will see his hand. what I see is his love.

It is very well possable that Jeremiah was speaking of an literal and immediate prophecy and its fulfillment of the first destruction of Jerusalem, and an ultimate fulfillment in the second.

possible but not probable. No one owu.ld pray for the destruction of their city. he had just said God would send them to captivity and they would be slaved to their enemies, then he said destroy them. Which God said later and in many areas he will do.

So did the people of Babylon in general come to know God? At least nothing long term. Maybe Neberkenezer did, but it sure wasn't due to the war between Him and Jerusalem. Ever think that Neberkenezer could be a anti-type of the church, experience 7 years of eating grass? Anyway Neberkenezer realized who God was after he was humbled by God, but it didn't take root in the culture back then nor among many Babylonians. I haven't read any real evidence ancient Babylon as a whole coming to know God, and if they had, perhaps Medo-Persia wouldn't have conquered them.

lol. Babylon was pagan, it is why they had many God, Yes Nebuchadnezzar believed in the one true God, but he believed in the others also. it is why they are called the harlot. the false pegan gods are the harlot Gods. Media persia was also. as was greece as was rome,

 

[marianna]

I gave faithless Israel her certificate of divorce and sent her away because of all her adulteries. Yet I saw that her unfaithful sister Judah had no fear; she also went out and committed adultery. - Jeremiah 3:8

I will punish her for the days she burned incense to the Baals; she decked herself with rings and jewelry, and went after her lovers, but me she forgot," declares the LORD. - Hosea 2:13

"Long ago you broke off your yoke and tore off your bonds; you said, 'I will not serve you!' Indeed, on every high hill and under every spreading tree you lay down as a prostitute - Jeremiah 2:20

Then the LORD said to me in the days of Josiah the king, "Have you seen what faithless Israel did? She went up on every high hill and under every green tree, and she was a harlot there. - Jeremiah 3:6

When I brought them into the land I had sworn to give them and they saw any high hill or any leafy tree, there they offered their sacrifices, made offerings that provoked me to anger, presented their fragrant incense and poured out their drink offerings. - Ezekiel 20:28

They sacrifice on the mountaintops and burn offerings on the hills, under oak, poplar and terebinth, where the shade is pleasant. Therefore your daughters turn to prostitution and your daughters-in-law to adultery. - Hosea 4:13

"I will not punish your daughters when they turn to prostitution, nor your daughters-in-law when they commit adultery, because the men themselves consort with harlots and sacrifice with shrine prostitutes--a people without understanding will come to ruin! - Hosea 4:14

The high places of wickedness will be destroyed--it is the sin of Israel. Thorns and thistles will grow up and cover their altars. Then they will say to the mountains, "Cover us!" and to the hills, "Fall on us!" - Hosea 10:8

But the more I called Israel, the further they went from me. They sacrificed to the Baals and they burned incense to images. - Hosea 11:2

Why provoke me to anger with what your hands have made, burning incense to other gods in Egypt, where you have come to live? You will destroy yourselves and make yourselves an object of cursing and reproach among all the nations on earth. - Jeremiah 44:8

Your older sister was Samaria, who lived to the north of you with her daughters; and your younger sister, who lived to the south of you with her daughters, was Sodom. - Ezekiel 16:46

Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city, which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified. - Revelation 11:8

And it happened just as He swore it would.

 

[Bookends]

This does not make sense. Jeremiah is praying for healing of his people. Not the destruction of his city. he is praying for the destruction of the gentiles who will enslave his people. No jew ever prayed for the destruction of jerusalem even when his people were in sin. Daniel is huge proof of this.

Jeremiah is speaking of his countrymen who rebelled against God and no doubt they were seeking his life. Follow the context and dialog of the whole prayer. Verse 1 of 17 points this out:

“The sin of Judah is written with a pen of iron;
With the point of a diamond it is engraved
On the tablet of their heart,
And on the horns of your altars,

Not once in the entire chapter mentions the gentiles directly.

 

[Bookends]

lol for one who likes to argue the church is neither jew or gentile, you sur elove to poke that the church is gentile.

you have to distinguish between a believer (spiritual Jew) or a non-believer (gentile) some how. When a natural Jew (really a gentile) by descent becomes saved or a gentile becomes saved they both enter into the House of God as a son of God. I'm sure I can articulate this well enough to help you understand, some I going to stop trying.

as for seeing the hand of God, read revelation, and other passages that speak of Gods wrath. then you will see his hand. what I see is his love.

I see God's mercy and justice at the foot of the cross. Seeing God's hand is just a metaphor for God intervening the people, places and times, using His might do accomplish His will, not just limited to His wrath, but also His salvation. God showed His mightiness by conquering Satan through Jesus' crucifixion.

lol. Babylon was pagan, it is why they had many God, Yes Nebuchadnezzar believed in the one true God, but he believed in the others also. it is why they are called the harlot. the false pegan gods are the harlot Gods. Media persia was also. as was greece as was rome,

Sounds exactly who ancient Jerusalem/Israel was, and still is. Lol, I know you do, but try reading the OT sometime (yeah, I'm being sarcastic) . BTW, I still love yah!