Can someone lose their salvation?

[ReinItIn]

I do not see it as a perfectionist issue either. i see it as a lay down the pride in self, recognize our dependency and live with him according to his rules, love issue.

Those he loves his chastises.. John 3:16 God so loved the World. He has chastised and chastises all men.

I do not believe the meaning that is taught for He loved Jacob and Hated Esau. Esua did Not value the promise. Jacob wrestled for it.

I do not believe his love for us is greater for us because we believed.

if I am not in Him I am in the World. If I am in the World I am subjected to the promises he has made to those who forsake his covenant. I can turn back anytime I realize what I have done. Just as any lost sinner can turn to him at any moment of realization of their need.

I don't believe God had a greater love for me, A higher regard for me, special privileges for me unless i am in him and he in me. I have no greater advantage then any other person if I am resisting the work of God in me to bare his fruit.

i will anchor myself as a sinner on the rock and stay there to receive the benefits of his covenant and kingdom. If I lift my anchor and sale in my own direction I am not on the rock, not in his kingdom. I can come and go as I please. i believe Gods desire is that I see It is a good place to live.

I think salvation is a progressive work. I am Saved, I am being saved, I will be saved. It is a blessed assurance too all men in any state of being.

I believe this verse in timothy has every bit as much truth and is a principle assured as being save by grace through faith.

1 thimothy 3:6 He must not be a new convert, or he might become conceited and fall into the condemnation of the devil of the Devil.

We ignore so much to believe so lil. so we can think ourselves better then any other sinful man.

 

[ReinItIn]

what did Jesus say?

He said to them, 24 “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because I tell you, many will try to enter and won’t be able 25 once the homeowner gets up and shuts the door. Then you will stand outside and knock on the door, saying, ‘Lord, open up for us!’ He will answer you, ‘I don’t know you or where you’re from.’ 26 Then you will say,[j] ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets!’ 27 But He will say, ‘I tell you, I don’t know you or where you’re from. Get away from Me, all you workers of unrighteousness!’ 28 There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth in that place, when you see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves thrown out. 29 They will come from east and west, from north and south, and recline at the table in the kingdom of God. 30 Note this: Some are last who will be first, and some are first who will be last.”

Make every effort? wait Jesus says we have to not just make an effort but make every effort.

I think today if i hear his voice I must hearken unto it. I believe because I continue to sin I need to continue in His salvation everyday as the first day I knelt before him trusting him for my salvation and believing his his love for me.

In the song of Solomon her beloved knocked but she didn't respond so He left, But, he left his fragrance to remind her of her love for him.. She smelt it and ran looking for him. but, could not find him anywhere. she was in the streets under assaulted by men, crying out to women :have you seen my beloved?" they said who is your beloved? then she remembered. Where was Her beloved?

I think we must stay in His love, never leave that First Love and when he knocks we need to run to the door and answer.. If we don't we will find only his fragrance but, he will not be there.

Gods Love is never in question what is questioned Is will we respond to it and will we continue in his Love.

 

[feedm3]

The point of the parable is while the son lived in sin, his condition was "Dead", we he returned (repented) ONLY then was his condition changed back to "alive" - Luk 15:24.

Show me where it says he was alive, then dead, then alive again.

Okay I am sorry, I assumed before he left his father, he was alive, seeing he became dead (I assumed) while living for the world.

Of course maybe he was "Dead" before he ever left, the text does not say. I have no reason to assume that either, so guess we should not assume anything.

What is for sure is that while he left, and lived for the world he was dead.

When he returned, confessed his wrongs, he was made alive.

"dead" and "alive" can be literal of figurative. We know it does not mean literal, we know he must have been spiritually dead.

You say there are alot of things dead and alive could mean, and not deal with salvation.

We can use that method on the entire Bible, that would be purposely missing the point. What others ways could he have been "dead" that would fit the parable? Yet it does not ever say he was not saved. You do have that. Inferring he was not, is also a valid inference due to the wording used.


So if you want to continue to call those who believe we must obey God "perfectionists" being reminded of Satan's temptation of Christ, go for it.

I was only trying to tell you my take, and why I am not a perfectionist. You dont have to accept anything I say, just trying to give you a better understanding of where I stand, defiantly not perfect.

 

[ReinItIn]

I am not bound by duty or obligation.. He has reached out his hand and said "I love you" will I respond to His hand and love him and allow him to love me everyday for the rest of my life or will I walk away on the first bad day and satisfy my self in something/someone else?

 

[feedm3]

.....................

Well thats my story...thing is you havnt made a case at all with any scripture that was relevant.

"made a case"? I was explaining a passage. I am sorry can you inform me when were in an all debate so I can know to.

Luke 15 is relevant to show that if one leaves the father he is dead, and if he repents (returns) he can be made alive. Is it not? If not, show why.

I am sorry if that is not relevant enough for you because these words "dead" and "alive" can me so many other things you claim. (looking for the relevant case for that).

Here is another:

Written to Christians:

II Cor 7:89 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. 10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death

How can a letter to Christians( already saved) bring them to "godly sorrow" that "leads to salvation".

How can Godly sorrow lead to repentance, and that repentance lead a saved person to salvation, if it was from a letter they received after they were saved?

Repentance was needed again, the letter gave them Godly sorry, that lead to repentance (returning to the Father) that lead them to salvation AGAIN (made the alive).

I know, I know, they were never saved, even though it was a letter written to so called Christians. Well, if that's true, then I would ask, what made them "never saved"? Living in sin?

Okay, then what did we learn? If we live in sin we are not saved, or we lost it? Never had it?

What does it matter? The point is sin caused one to lose/never have salvation.

So then,Heb 5:9 and 10:26 still mean exactly what they say. Author of Hebrews a perfectionist?

I do agree we need to repent before conversion. And confess sins as necessary.

Seems the Corinthians, the church at Ephesus, and the other 4 in Rev , all needed it again afterwards.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent (before of after conversion?)

 

[wheat]

Shalom Selenah, the Word does say those that endure to the end will be saved....I think it may be an ongoing thing. The Word also tells us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. We certanily needed a Saviour. When we sin our conscience lets us know, and we can repent and get forgiveness....praise YHWH!

 

[ReinItIn]

Jesus was not the only one who told us to make every effort..

Hebrews 4:11
Let us then make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall into the same pattern of disobedience.
Hebrews 4:10-12 (in Context) Hebrews 4 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

2 Peter 1:5
For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with goodness, goodness with knowledge,
2 Peter 1:4-6 (in Context) 2 Peter 1 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations.

2 Peter 1:10
Therefore, brothers, make every effort to confirm your calling and election, because if you do these things you will never stumble.
2 Peter 1:9-11 (in Context) 2 Peter 1 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

2 Peter 3:14
[ Conclusion ] Therefore, dear friends, while you wait for these things, make every effort to be found at peace with Him without spot or blemish.
2 Peter 3:13-15 (in Context) 2 Peter 3 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations

So please tell me how we can have a doctrine or gospel of no effort?

 

[ReinItIn]

Jesus has entered God's rest.. He has sat down at the right hand of God waiting for all the enemies of God to be brought into submission under his footstool.

What is He doing in Gods rest? beckoning men, going after lost sheep, tending the flocks, making intercession, instructing the church, preparing hearts and minds, walking among the Lamp stands, tending to the needs of the churches, correcting, chastising, subjecting men to the truth?

sounds like he is wide awake and still tending to his father business to me. As he is so should we be in his rest.

 

[Abiding]

The point of the parable is while the son lived in sin, his condition was "Dead", we he returned (repented) ONLY then was his condition changed back to "alive" - Luk 15:24.



Okay I am sorry, I assumed before he left his father, he was alive, seeing he became dead (I assumed) while living for the world.

Of course maybe he was "Dead" before he ever left, the text does not say. I have no reason to assume that either, so guess we should not assume anything.

What is for sure is that while he left, and lived for the world he was dead.

When he returned, confessed his wrongs, he was made alive.

"dead" and "alive" can be literal of figurative. We know it does not mean literal, we know he must have been spiritually dead.

You say there are alot of things dead and alive could mean, and not deal with salvation.

We can use that method on the entire Bible, that would be purposely missing the point. What others ways could he have been "dead" that would fit the parable? Yet it does not ever say he was not saved. You do have that. Inferring he was not, is also a valid inference due to the wording used.


So if you want to continue to call those who believe we must obey God "perfectionists" being reminded of Satan's temptation of Christ, go for it.

I was only trying to tell you my take, and why I am not a perfectionist. You dont have to accept anything I say, just trying to give you a better understanding of where I stand, defiantly not perfect.

I didnt refer to you as a perfectionist...although i use that term. So dont think i did. I dont know you
so i wouldnt call you anything.

My point is that those parables are not intended to be used for salvation doctrine mechanics. They have a
different intent.

Example: We are all born dead. Yes, repentance is the first step in conversion of which God permits and empowers..im to lazy to provide the verses..youd already know them.

Death comes from sin...even a bornagain believer will suffer death to whatever degree he sins.
God is not mocked as you know. Be rude, you will suffer social death, smoke 50 packs a day you
will suffer physical death. Cheat on your wife...death to the marriage. You see my point. Dont
repent and put your trust in Christ through the gospel...youl suffer eternal spiritual death and separation.

Ill say again that this parable isnt to glean salvation principles from. But rather the Joy of heaven
when a sinner repents. Thats why Jesus didnt say that the Fathers son was alive, then died, then was
made alive again. We know Jesus taught we were all born dead and under condemnation. This boy although
he was a son was dead before he left. Thats pretty much why he left. But to understand Jesus point
deal with the son who stayed then youl get the parable and its purpose and intent.

It can have some application..but since this parable was jewish in nature and cant be understood
correctly outside its scope. I think we need to look elsewhere to make a case for losing salvation.

 

[Abiding]

.....................
"made a case"? I was explaining a passage. I am sorry can you inform me when were in an all debate so I can know to.

Luke 15 is relevant to show that if one leaves the father he is dead, and if he repents (returns) he can be made alive. Is it not? If not, show why.

I am sorry if that is not relevant enough for you because these words "dead" and "alive" can me so many other things you claim. (looking for the relevant case for that).

Here is another:

Written to Christians:

II Cor 7:89 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. 10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death

How can a letter to Christians( already saved) bring them to "godly sorrow" that "leads to salvation".

How can Godly sorrow lead to repentance, and that repentance lead a saved person to salvation, if it was from a letter they received after they were saved?

Repentance was needed again, the letter gave them Godly sorry, that lead to repentance (returning to the Father) that lead them to salvation AGAIN (made the alive).

I know, I know, they were never saved, even though it was a letter written to so called Christians. Well, if that's true, then I would ask, what made them "never saved"? Living in sin?

Okay, then what did we learn? If we live in sin we are not saved, or we lost it? Never had it?

What does it matter? The point is sin caused one to lose/never have salvation.

So then,Heb 5:9 and 10:26 still mean exactly what they say. Author of Hebrews a perfectionist?


Seems the Corinthians, the church at Ephesus, and the other 4 in Rev , all needed it again afterwards.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent (before of after conversion?)

Feedme, im not hostile or anything like that...type doent give much proper inflection
as Reinitin would say

Those are great questions. id give you the answers as i see them for the Hebrews texts.
And you may not accept them, but i believe they are the truth. But not right now. For now
id say yes...they were not saved..and were not gona be saved, going where they were going.

The Corinthian passage i can explain also...through the uses of both words salvation and death
that hasnt the intent to mean salvation, or damnation. Although it is used that way..for instance
if a person only has a worldly repentance as Esau did, there would be no effectual conversion.

The rev text isnt talking about salvation either...the clue is in the term candlestick which
is a witness, it would be akin to saying since you guys have no love..i wont let you represent me
and im gona pull up my support, unless you repent and go back to the beginning and find out
how you got here.

Feedme im friendy...maybe im not socially skilled..sometimes i write before i think much
about whos here and who they may be. Sorry for that. Im a fire, ready, aim guy sometimes.

 

[Abiding]

Remember there are those who do not believe in losing salvation,
that also do not think believers live a life of crime.

Neither do they think sanctification is passive. Nor do they
believe God doesnt mean business or has changed His mind
on sin. And doesnt have a woodshed, and even will judge a man
and take his life.(sin unto death, which isnt the same as a spiritual death)

Im saying this because some are fickle and make comments to those
who feel secure in their saviour, are those who like to excuse sin.
How they come up with that is beyond me.

 

[Abiding]

Eze 36:26
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

This is a prophecy of the new birth..i like Clarks simple comments

Clarke's Commentary on the Bible
A new heart also will I give you - I will change the whole of your infected nature; and give you new appetites, new passions; or, at least, the old ones purified and refined. The heart is generally understood to mean all the affections and passions.

And a new spirit will I put within you - I will renew your minds, also enlighten your understanding, correct your judgment, and refine your will, so that you shall have a new spirit to actuate your new heart.

I will take away the stony heart - That heart that is hard, impenetrable, and cold; the affections and passions that are unyielding, frozen to good, unaffected by heavenly things; that are slow to credit the words of God. I will entirely remove this heart: it is the opposite to that which I have promised you; and you cannot have the new heart and the old heart at the same time.

And I will give you a heart of flesh - One that can feel, and that can enjoy; that can feel love to God and to all men, and be a proper habitation for the living God.

 

[GreenNnice]

The point of the parable is while the son lived in sin, his condition was "Dead", we he returned (repented) ONLY then was his condition changed back to "alive" - Luk 15:24.



Okay I am sorry, I assumed before he left his father, he was alive, seeing he became dead (I assumed) while living for the world.

Of course maybe he was "Dead" before he ever left, the text does not say. I have no reason to assume that either, so guess we should not assume anything.

What is for sure is that while he left, and lived for the world he was dead.

When he returned, confessed his wrongs, he was made alive.

"dead" and "alive" can be literal of figurative. We know it does not mean literal, we know he must have been spiritually dead.

You say there are alot of things dead and alive could mean, and not deal with salvation.

We can use that method on the entire Bible, that would be purposely missing the point. What others ways could he have been "dead" that would fit the parable? Yet it does not ever say he was not saved. You do have that. Inferring he was not, is also a valid inference due to the wording used.


So if you want to continue to call those who believe we must obey God "perfectionists" being reminded of Satan's temptation of Christ, go for it.

I was only trying to tell you my take, and why I am not a perfectionist. You dont have to accept anything I say, just trying to give you a better understanding of where I stand, defiantly not perfect.

Feed speaks wholly great Truth.
------()-------

As for salvation lost, think about paradise, it was lost.
God did provide a place for Adam and Eve to live after their paradise was lost and, they lived a lot of years, like over 800 years.

The Scripture will teach you all Truth.

Bottom line, in the beginning, man was given everything good and the Evil One made their paradise depart from them, because of a lack of faith in God. Now, granted, God did not smite Adam and Eve to Hell, that we know of, anyway, we only know that Adam and Eve believed Satan's great lie that 'you will become like God' and it was soonafter that they KNEW

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.) But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

International Standard Version (©2008) However, I am afraid that just as the serpent deceived Eve by its tricks, so your minds may somehow be lured away from sincere and pure devotion to the Messiah.


'Sincere and pure devotion,' left it for the complex reality of being with the mind of God. Wow!
The person who made Adam, and, don't forget, Eve, was NOT enough for them, they needed something else. 'Course, Adam and Eve truly did not know they needed anything else until the crafty serpent Satan showed them there was more... Death, in this case, equaled more, as, before believing Satan's great lie, Adam and Eve were slated to live forever. Satan is out there, Christ peeps, ablnd, he truly wants your soul into the lake of fire going, tormented, forever.

Live foreVer or die forever.

The choice, 'forever,' is yours .

Jesus says those who believe He is 'the resurrection and the Life,' will die yet live forever.

Satan says that God is not real, to those who will believe that great lie, that God's son is just that, a son,' Jo miracle power of Himself, just was given power by His Father, God, but He Himself , born of Holy Spirit wed, is not really Deity, not really The Way, just a son , a prophet ,, that did things in bible times. That's ALL Jesus is. He is a man, they will tell you, not fully God, but, yes, fully man.

Ah, Christ peeps, doctrine is fraught with lies out there that say Jesus is not Lord, that others deserve being given supreme status, like God. Ah, mmmm, what is the Lord showing you as Truth?

Whose 'way' is perfect for you, 'one' is wide and leads to utter destruction, 'one' is narrow, and, simply, IF followed, leads to Life. Forever your choice, your destiny awaits !

Will you rule with God or will you, like Adam and Eve, rule with Satan. Hint: Read Revelation, and, see, in the, end, that Satan and the beast and false prophets and antichrists will seemingly become more and more powerful and THEN ...Christ will throw them all into the lake of fire, gone.

For how long gone, green? Forever.

 

[feedm3]

Feedme, im not hostile or anything like that...type doent give much proper inflection
as Reinitin would say

Those are great questions. id give you the answers as i see them for the Hebrews texts.
And you may not accept them, but i believe they are the truth. But not right now. For now
id say yes...they were not saved..and were not gona be saved, going where they were going.

The Corinthian passage i can explain also...through the uses of both words salvation and death
that hasnt the intent to mean salvation, or damnation. Although it is used that way..for instance
if a person only has a worldly repentance as Esau did, there would be no effectual conversion.

The rev text isnt talking about salvation either...the clue is in the term candlestick which
is a witness, it would be akin to saying since you guys have no love..i wont let you represent me
and im gona pull up my support, unless you repent and go back to the beginning and find out
how you got here.

Feedme im friendy...maybe im not socially skilled..sometimes i write before i think much
about whos here and who they may be. Sorry for that. Im a fire, ready, aim guy sometimes.

Okay, well I understand what youre saying concering REv, and Corinth. I will look into that. I think we all, at least I know I can be a "fire, ready, aim" as well. lol, good way of putting it.

 

[Abiding]

Feed speaks wholly great Truth. Im fine with feedme greennnice..but no man
wholly speaks truth. Wish it was so but its not...especially me...this is a forum...we talk, right?
------()-------

As for salvation lost, think about paradise, it was lost.
God did provide a place for Adam and Eve to live after their paradise was lost and, they lived a lot of years, like over 800 years. weak point to me, Adam and Eve were redeemed by the shedding of blood and grace through faith. They wernt saved then lost it! They sinned and lost their immortality, then were redeemed..Another bad use of scripture for this OP.

The Scripture will teach you all Truth.

Bottom line, in the beginning, man was given everything good and the Evil One made their paradise depart from them, because of a lack of faith in God. Now, granted, God did not smite Adam and Eve to Hell, that we know of, anyway, we only know that Adam and Eve believed Satan's great lie that 'you will become like God' and it was soonafter that they KNEW

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.) But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.according to the OP this is also a weak point. Of coarse we dont want corrupted, but is this a salvation issue? No!

International Standard Version (©2008) However, I am afraid that just as the serpent deceived Eve by its tricks, so your minds may somehow be lured away from sincere and pure devotion to the Messiah.


'Sincere and pure devotion,' left it for the complex reality of being with the mind of God. Wow!
The person who made Adam, and, don't forget, Eve, was NOT enough for them, they needed something else. 'Course, Adam and Eve truly did not know they needed anything else until the crafty serpent Satan showed them there was more... Death, in this case, equaled more, as, before believing Satan's great lie, Adam and Eve were slated to live forever. Satan is out there, Christ peeps, ablnd, he truly wants your soul into the lake of fire going, tormented, forever.

Live foreVer or die forever.

The choice, 'forever,' is yours .

Jesus says those who believe He is 'the resurrection and the Life,' will die yet live forever.

Satan says that God is not real, to those who will believe that great lie, that God's son is just that, a son,' Jo miracle power of Himself, just was given power by His Father, God, but He Himself , born of Holy Spirit wed, is not really Deity, not really The Way, just a son , a prophet ,, that did things in bible times. That's ALL Jesus is. He is a man, they will tell you, not fully God, but, yes, fully man.

Ah, Christ peeps, doctrine is fraught with lies out there that say Jesus is not Lord, that others deserve being given supreme status, like God. Ah, mmmm, what is the Lord showing you as Truth?

Whose 'way' is perfect for you, 'one' is wide and leads to utter destruction, 'one' is narrow, and, simply, IF followed, leads to Life. Forever your choice, your destiny awaits !

Will you rule with God or will you, like Adam and Eve, rule with Satan. Hint: Read Revelation, and, see, in the, end, that Satan and the beast and false prophets and antichrists will seemingly become more and more powerful and THEN ...Christ will throw them all into the lake of fire, gone. Adam and Eve ruled with Satan? come on...do you have a chapter i dont?

For how long gone, green? Forever.

 

[Abiding]

Okay, well I understand what youre saying concering REv, and Corinth. I will look into that. I think we all, at least I know I can be a "fire, ready, aim" as well. lol, good way of putting it.

I do believe that if it were possible for a man to walk off and in his heart reject his
Lord after he was given a new heart then he could throw away his salvation. But
i cant find any legit scripture to back it up.

Nor do i believe we can clean the outside of the cup and gain or retain salvation.
Its the heart that the Lord is concerned about which we have no power to clean.
But i do agree with keeping our feet clean. And yes keeping the outside of the cup clean also

 

[GreenNnice]

I do believe that if it were possible for a man to walk off and in his heart reject his
Lord after he was given a new heart then he could throw away his salvation. But
i cant find any legit scripture to back it up.

Nor do i believe we can clean the outside of the cup and gain or retain salvation.
Its the heart that the Lord is concerned about which we have no power to clean.
But i do agree with keeping our feet clean. And yes keeping the outside of the cup clean also

God looks at our heart, squirrellyfriend, per 1 Samuel 16:7, so, of course, we have His power in us to CLEAN our heart. God looks at our intentions from where we emote (emit) our deepest thoughts, which come 'from the heart,' so, goes this proverbial cliche' that is Truth, in this case.

Touche' !
We, with Christ in us making us as Him, imputed righteousness, for we BOTH know our own righteousness is as filthy rags, huts yes, the Lord leads, and, with Him, we bring the faith (tools) and God creates in us a clean heart, and, renews a right spirit in us.


------
Regarding your reciting what's said about Adam and Eve, Christbro, it was 'they' who BOTH chose to believe Satan ame, they absolutely were choosing to RULE with Satan over God. Now, how dis that work out for them

I am not sure of your other red bold objections, I speak wholly Truth, as the Lord leads me, and, of course, it's MY opinion but I believe that feed speaks wholly great Truth (in this thread HERE) too.

Scruffy, don't worry, either, I got this bet with someone, name is 'Alvin,' who says I won't 'like' a post of yours until December.

So don't make me wrong, Christbro

--------
Oh, squirrelfriend, just kidding, you know I love ya, you furry ball of loveable.

 

[ReinItIn]

i guess I should say why I believe once saved always saved and eternal assurance are false Doctrine. To me it is a sin of arrogance and presumption. We know only God is able to Judge and he has a day he has set apart for that judgment. To think because we have a firm secure knowledge of God and we have found some mystery that shows ourselves absolved from his eternal Judgment is really scary and extremely arrogant to me. He writes and erases, blots out and adds to the book of life doesn't he?

Christ as a man who was God. When he walked among us as a man did not eternally Judge nor did he grant eternal assurance that I know of.. i know He said remain in me or be thrown in the fire. I know he said those who persevere to the end will be saved. i know he said anyone who comes to me i will not turn away. i know he said No one can snatch us from his hand.. but, he told us we can turn away.

scriptures that assure me I must preserver in him till judgment are all over the bible..

As far as dead alive, dead, alive.. I believe we are dead in our trespasses and sin.. only life we have is that in Christ.. if we are not in him we have no life apart from him.. in rev the lambs book is opened and the DEAD are judged and given eternal life.. our life is given in the resurrection.. till that we live in Christ and we are dead in the flesh and to the flesh...

How can we serve 2 masters if we are dead in the flesh living to the flash and assuming we are in Christ?

We are the dead living in His life or we are just dead.

 

[GreenNnice]

God did provide a place for Adam and Eve to live after their paradise was lost and, they lived a lot of years, like over 800 years. weak point to me, Adam and Eve were redeemed by the shedding of blood and grace through faith. They wernt saved then lost it! They sinned and lost their immortality, then were redeemed..Another bad use of scripture for this OP.

^ This was just food for thought, squirrelyfriend. ^

Paradise WAS lost, and, Adam and Eve were not allowed to EVER go back to Eden. Great consequences happened resultant of Adam and Eve's sin. It's interesting, too, that Scripture states that false teachers and false prophets being listened to will cause 'some to depart from the faith,' per Scripture.

The sin of Adam and Eve is 'The Fall.' And, there are verses in Scripture, like Hebrews 6:4-6, that speak directly of 'falling away.'

Now, Adam and eve did not have the Holy Spirit in them to get them through Satan's great temptation that was acted upon , they instead had God Himself, who walked in the 'cool of the day' with them.

Apparently, God in the garden with them, wasn't enough, they fell.
Yes, Eve acknowledges God blessed her with another son after Cain killed Abel so let's assume that Adam and Eve went to Sheoul after they died, the 'paradise' side.


Just some paradisical thought throwing out there, squirrellyfriend. The Lord leads.

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ReignisHis, Truth !

 

[Abiding]

God looks at our heart, squirrellyfriend, per 1 Samuel 16:7, so, of course, we have His power in us to CLEAN our heart. God looks at our intentions from where we emote (emit) our deepest thoughts, which come 'from the heart,' so, goes this proverbial cliche' that is Truth, in this case.
We can clean nothing in our heart!! Without Him we can do nothing. We cant even know it without His illumination...is that what you mean by His power? If so ok.

Touche' !
We, with Christ in us making us as Him, imputed righteousness, for we BOTH know our own righteousness is as filthy rags, huts yes, the Lord leads, and, with Him, we bring the faith (tools) and God creates in us a clean heart, and, renews a right spirit in us.


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Regarding your reciting what's said about Adam and Eve, Christbro, it was 'they' who BOTH chose to believe Satan ame, they absolutely were choosing to RULE with Satan over God. Now, how dis that work out for them maybe if you hold your nose right, meaning if one decision made them rule with satan...then ill agree. thats not how i took it,

I am not sure of your other red bold objections, I speak wholly Truth, as the Lord leads me, and, of course, it's MY opinion but I believe that feed speaks wholly great Truth (in this thread HERE) too. oh i see...what that means is that neither of you are ever incorrect? ok ill keep that in mind. Do you really think feed needs you to protect him? This seems a tad goofy greenie.

Scruffy, don't worry, either, I got this bet with someone, name is 'Alvin,' who says I won't 'like' a post of yours until December. Oh! yur breaking my heart

So don't make me wrong, Christbro

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Oh, squirrelfriend, just kidding, you know I love ya, you furry ball of loveable.

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